WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Container costs/Shipping, stand by!

boatpi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
7,920
Reaction score
11,681
Clearly shipping is involved in everything we buy. We import from Indonesia. Until March 2020 we were paying about $3,500 for a 40 container, this is ocean freight ONLY. Many more costs on top of that. The costs have continued to rise, at times twice a month price increases. About 60 days ago it went to $10,000 per 40', then $14,000.

We had 5 orders that would fill a 40' container, waiting for one at $14,000 each. No shipping line would dispatch a container at that extorted price for 5 weeks. Now we just paid for "Diamond" service, $20,000 a container! China we here is higher. This is peak season, Walmart is importing for Christmas, very typical for small increases. This is a joke.

No our prices continue to rise. The sales side continues to increase pretty much every month, people continue to spend money on their houses for improvement. Now large increases in sales to contractors for shade structures related to outside employee break areas, and more outdoor dining.

Auto parts are included in this mess, I know GM buys water pumps for China, small stuff but that content adds up.
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,742
Reaction score
13,035
I don't know the exact breakdown...but im in the middle of putting together a couple of multifamily projects. I buy LVP by the container from China for these projects, as well as the cabinets. Costs are $23k more for the flooring container than the last one I brokered in December...I'm assuming most of that cost increase was shipping. It's getting stupid, and driving up the cost of everything even more.

I shipped a car to my mom in HI back in December...the rates for that are up 50%.
 

NicPaus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
12,973
Reaction score
12,379
I heard 23k also from the LVP guy. Stone importer said 18k. Costs just keep going up.
 

beertruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
334
Reaction score
917
I believe part of the cost is once shipped the containers can not be unloaded at port because of worker shortages, and ships with containers sit outside of port for weeks before they can be unloaded. Time is money, so cost go up to cover the cost of the ships sitting in port.
We get sone of our logo drink buckets from china, and buy the container full. I heard the same thing from my purchasing guy that what used to cost us 3.5K, is now running 20K. This additional cost would be great enough to cause people to buy locally, if we weren't having the same labor issues at the US plants.
 

just_floatin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
5,633
Reaction score
17,919
DC27481D-68CB-4C64-BC53-785602157EFB.jpeg
 

Done-it-again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
8,819
Reaction score
10,839
Just be prepared for delays. Currently there are 45+ plus ship moored out of LA.
 

Lunatic Fringe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
5,989
Reaction score
8,750
I haven't seen $20-$23K on container freight yet and I sure hope I don't.
We bring in a fair number of container's and my high from China is around $12K and from Turkey around $8K.
That's still triple what it was a short time ago.
 

Done-it-again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
8,819
Reaction score
10,839
I haven't seen $20-$23K on container freight yet and I sure hope I don't.
We bring in a fair number of container's and my high from China is around $12K and from Turkey around $8K.
That's still triple what it was a short time ago.

I haven't either, my last one was cheaper than i had expected about 12k last month from Germany 40'. I have another one leaving there Oct 16' and will see what the cost is then.

I have held back the order delivery from China to make sure containers are "loaded " as they tend to lightly pack from time to time. I have about 120,000 lbs to bring in but there are delays in bearings that are needed to finish the assy causing other parts to be delayed.

We have been pretty good with supply up to now, should have ordered these items a few months earlier but hard to justify when thing were little slow and now we are opposite.
 

SPYLIFE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2018
Messages
205
Reaction score
247
Do you feel the shipping companies are make way more money? Should we be looking into shipping company stocks?
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,742
Reaction score
13,035
I haven't seen $20-$23K on container freight yet and I sure hope I don't.
We bring in a fair number of container's and my high from China is around $12K and from Turkey around $8K.
That's still triple what it was a short time ago.

I'm hoping it doesn't stay like that on our deal. I need to pull up the breakdown and see how much of it is shipping increase vs just material increase...bc they both went up..$23k is the gross number increase they fired off to me on this job. I wasn't expecting it...that puts it nearly 25% up from the December one.
 

Bpracing1127

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
10,018
Reaction score
12,892
We were paying 4500 a container a year ago. It’s now 19000 plus longer wait times. We do about 10 containers a month. Prices have skyrocketed.
 

Done-it-again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
8,819
Reaction score
10,839
I'm hoping it doesn't stay like that on our deal. I need to pull up the breakdown and see how much of it is shipping increase vs just material increase...bc they both went up..$23k is the gross number increase they fired off to me on this job. I wasn't expecting it...that puts it nearly 25% up from the December one.

Are you subject to the 25% tariff?
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,742
Reaction score
13,035
Are you subject to the 25% tariff?

I think that went back into effect last November or something like that. There was a couple year reprieve from that but during that period I was under my non-compete so I didn't really stay too abreast of the info. I'm still just really now wading back into it all.

The whole tariff deal irks my ass on putting deals like this together. Really messes with investor ROI's
 

Done-it-again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
8,819
Reaction score
10,839
I think that went back into effect last November or something like that. There was a couple year reprieve from that but during that period I was under my non-compete so I didn't really stay too abreast of the info. I'm still just really now wading back into it all.

The whole tariff deal irks my ass on putting deals like this together. Really messes with investor ROI's

We were hit on the first wave of 25%. It stung and had to find away to reduce that.
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
5,742
Reaction score
13,035
We were hit on the first wave of 25%. It stung and had to find away to reduce that.

Today I'm actually trying to source Quartz prefab slabs for one of those projects. The guys I used to buy from stopped bringing it in...when they told me the tariff on that a few weeks ago I about spit out my drink...it was like 300%?? I like to make the projects "nice" and low maintenance but this next deal may wind up being formica over it.

I still think demand is driving a lot of cost increases, as is the lack of labor/staff at the ports to unload. There will come a breaking point though. If I could find a domestic supplier for flooring to the specs I need and reasonably close in price I would...but it just doesn't exist.
 

boatpi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
7,920
Reaction score
11,681
No we did not pay a 25% tariff we pay the 232 Trump tax which is 10% and the trans Asian tax because Trump got out of that bullshit Asian scam pack and I think that’s about 4% so we’re in that range. What is a finished product of extruded powder coated aluminum we also received the same import duty on our aluminum sheets that are decorative if we were to import just aluminum sheets that was an increased tariff a few months ago I believe it’s 100% now or 200%. Steel I believe is 25% or a little more but we don’t import steel other than some small completed brackets that are powder coated so were the standard lower rate on that.

I’m sort of speculating here but I wouldn’t be surprised next year between our freight charges and the duty our expenses be increased to $1 million that’s how much we’ve grown from the small company.
 

RVR SWPR

Almost Off the Grid
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
9,402
Reaction score
12,993
Incredible thread & posts. Seems container ships laying up off shore days & weeks major source of increases. Elections have consequence.
 

Cobalt232

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
1,163
Reaction score
1,501
We rely on a climate-controlled container that leaves Liverpool about every other week and comes into New York. That line has been pretty good and reliable. But we also rely on another climate-controlled container that comes from Holland to Charleston about every other week. That line has been a mess with missing containers, temperature issues and the container just sitting around after arrival.
 

530RL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
21,174
Reaction score
20,146
Today I'm actually trying to source Quartz prefab slabs for one of those projects. The guys I used to buy from stopped bringing it in...when they told me the tariff on that a few weeks ago I about spit out my drink...it was like 300%?? I like to make the projects "nice" and low maintenance but this next deal may wind up being formica over it.

I still think demand is driving a lot of cost increases, as is the lack of labor/staff at the ports to unload. There will come a breaking point though. If I could find a domestic supplier for flooring to the specs I need and reasonably close in price I would...but it just doesn't exist.


The Quartz story is covered here.

 

Bpracing1127

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
10,018
Reaction score
12,892
And its still cheaper to import then start manufacturing in America ?
Yes by a long shot. Our batteries that we sell for 20k. We would have to see for 37.5k to make the same margin if 100% of the material was made in states. 150 people would be out of a job at that point.
 

WhatExit?

Well-Known Inmate #'s 2584 & 20161
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
15,548
Reaction score
33,064
Sure, supply and demand and port backlogs are driving the pricing up continuously

But there’s another issue and that is limited competition which is killing the industry. That together with China’s influence and control has got their hands squeezing the necks of the rest of the world
 

Bear Down

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
894
Reaction score
1,351
Yes by a long shot. Our batteries that we sell for 20k. We would have to see for 37.5k to make the same margin if 100% of the material was made in states. 150 people would be out of a job at that point.
It boggles my mind...

Here's are 2 examples... I am inProduce so its Produce related so bear with me...s

During good Production cycles the cost of peeled garlic from China (ocean freight) would cost me

$52 bucks

Same Product from Gilroy Ca... $68.

Product from China is hand peeled and packed

Product from USA.. all machine contact..

Enoki mushrooms...

1cs from China would cost me $7.50 per case..

Product from Ca, $12.50

But as of 09/2021..its flipped.. but that only temporary till this back up works itself put..

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
 

baja-chris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
495
Reaction score
1,125
I have a 8x28 container with a roll up door. 7-3 wide x 8ft tall opening, has power and lights. In Gilbert. Haul away price $2k obo.
Where do you advertise stuff like this? Not here I'm sure!
IMG_2697.JPG
 

Marios Metalworks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2019
Messages
1,811
Reaction score
3,718
@baja-chris what’s access to it look like?

Does anybody have a line on how container pricing will be impacted from this influx of goods?
 

baja-chris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
495
Reaction score
1,125
What kind of access is there to move it?

12ft wide RV gate, then about 15ft wide up to the container. Straight shot in from the street to back in a roll away or tiltbed.
Will have to winch it up onto roll away. Power comes in from the backside, I'll need to disconnect it. I just put it on Craigs List.
 

500bbc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
26,380
Reaction score
40,037
So by releasing the virus, China crippled the rest of the world's economies, and now is lining their pockets with profits by scamming us all with crazy price increases. Thanks China.
It's China saying Fuck You stupid Americans, don't ever elect a man like Trump again.
 

Icky

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
9,450
12ft wide RV gate, then about 15ft wide up to the container. Straight shot in from the street to back in a roll away or tiltbed.
Will have to winch it up onto roll away. Power comes in from the backside, I'll need to disconnect it. I just put it on Craigs List.
Where is it located?
 

baja-chris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
495
Reaction score
1,125
Container is in Gilbert AZ, just off Williams Field near the 202.

I just put the stacker trailer and the Baker tunnel hull on classifieds here. (waiting on mod approval). Can see the back of them in front of the container.
 

LakeMeadLavey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
379
Reaction score
654
Our company is experiencing the same outrageous container costs. We are a manufacture of motorcycle helmets, apparel and protection. As of last week, container costs from Asia are 20k plus if you can get a booking. This increase has added over $15 per helmet on our landed costs. We have already had 2 retail price increases since March and all of our competitors are experiencing the same.

The other issue is the delays in receiving the goods. Last week we received a container that arrived in the LA Port over 30 days prior. Weeks sitting on the ship and then they offload and there is no chassis/trucks to deliver the containers. Its a total shit show from all angles.

With these delays we now get bombarded with shipments all at once. This month we are due to receive 11 containers, half of which should have been delivered in August. Sources say we will not see any relief until sometime in 2022.

End result is this hits us all in the pocket book with inflation on just about everything we buy as Americans.
 

DWC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
11,309
Reaction score
24,110
These are from yesterday. There are ships everywhere. Would have been incredible to see without the marine layer.
2B55A01D-1E98-40EF-B6DA-1A5A2FC18E0D.jpeg
4302B3AE-2F3E-4172-B20B-7B30408A061B.jpeg
9EF9E6A1-99C6-4F76-8F70-33F269C1B292.jpeg
 

DILLIGAF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
17,109
Reaction score
24,037
I haven't seen $20-$23K on container freight yet and I sure hope I don't.
We bring in a fair number of container's and my high from China is around $12K and from Turkey around $8K.
That's still triple what it was a short time ago.

i was going to send a link to this thread for ya and then saw your post.
 

sirbob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
10,565
Reaction score
14,495
Clearly shipping is involved in everything we buy. We import from Indonesia. Until March 2020 we were paying about $3,500 for a 40 container, this is ocean freight ONLY. Many more costs on top of that. The costs have continued to rise, at times twice a month price increases. About 60 days ago it went to $10,000 per 40', then $14,000.

We had 5 orders that would fill a 40' container, waiting for one at $14,000 each. No shipping line would dispatch a container at that extorted price for 5 weeks. Now we just paid for "Diamond" service, $20,000 a container! China we here is higher. This is peak season, Walmart is importing for Christmas, very typical for small increases. This is a joke.

No our prices continue to rise. The sales side continues to increase pretty much every month, people continue to spend money on their houses for improvement. Now large increases in sales to contractors for shade structures related to outside employee break areas, and more outdoor dining.

Auto parts are included in this mess, I know GM buys water pumps for China, small stuff but that content adds up.


The cost rising are effecting everything for sure!

That said, when looking at the jump between $3,500 up to $20,000 it looks like a lot. As a way to understand the impact on finished sales to end users (your contractors), how much revenue do you get from a 40' container?

If a 40' container holds enough material at your sale price to generate $200,000 its obviously not as big an end user impact as if that same container only generates $100,000.

I don't want to seem like him minimizing the impact of 100s of % price increase but just trying to understand the end customer real world impact. I understand if you don't want to share those numbers - just wondering out loud how much of the price increase we are seeing in everything is due to shipping cost?
 

baja-chris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
495
Reaction score
1,125
I think I read there were 42 container ships queued to be unloaded at Long Beach. Each one of those take something like 15 trains to unload. That's 630 train loads of goods just sitting there. "Where's my shit?" There it is. Not sure what the issue is. Manpower at the docks?
 

sirbob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
10,565
Reaction score
14,495
I think I read there were 42 container ships queued to be unloaded at Long Beach. Each one of those take something like 15 trains to unload. That's 630 train loads of goods just sitting there. "Where's my shit?" There it is. Not sure what the issue is. Manpower at the docks?


See post #25 above - as of Sept 13 there were 134 in "port" waiting to be unloaded!
 

JBZ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
704
Reaction score
1,138
I have a 1850 KG shipment coming in from China
Cost is 4,660
My last shipment was 1,554
At least its on a boat.
Hopefully I see it by Halloween
 
Last edited:

530RL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
21,174
Reaction score
20,146
The cost rising are effecting everything for sure!

That said, when looking at the jump between $3,500 up to $20,000 it looks like a lot. As a way to understand the impact on finished sales to end users (your contractors), how much revenue do you get from a 40' container?

If a 40' container holds enough material at your sale price to generate $200,000 its obviously not as big an end user impact as if that same container only generates $100,000.

I don't want to seem like him minimizing the impact of 100s of % price increase but just trying to understand the end customer real world impact. I understand if you don't want to share those numbers - just wondering out loud how much of the price increase we are seeing in everything is due to shipping cost?


We use about 250 to 300 containers a month from S. Korea and from Thailand. We weight out a container before we cube it out. Basically we can put 90 2CM slabs of quartz or 60 3CM slabs of quartz per container.

Because we book containers months in advance we are not paying the spot price of 20k, but we have gone from about 2,700 bucks to about 13,000 bucks. For simple math lets just say that is a 10k increase.

10 grand over 60 slabs of quartz is an extra 167 bucks a slab. 10 grand over 90 slabs is an extra 111 bucks a slab.

All of our pricing is FOB, so the end user pays the freight increase.

Prior to the quartz tariffs of over 300 percent and the shipping increases you could buy a grade A quality directional veined slab of quartz for 300 bucks wholesale and it would cost about 30 bucks per slab for shipping. Now it is 1050 wholesale plus shipping of 144 per slab.

The cost of our products to the end consumer has increased almost 3.5x between tariffs and shipping. That is some serious inflation on the average guy building or renovating his house. 😳😳😳
 

Lunatic Fringe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
5,989
Reaction score
8,750
The cost rising are effecting everything for sure!

That said, when looking at the jump between $3,500 up to $20,000 it looks like a lot. As a way to understand the impact on finished sales to end users (your contractors), how much revenue do you get from a 40' container?

If a 40' container holds enough material at your sale price to generate $200,000 its obviously not as big an end user impact as if that same container only generates $100,000.

I don't want to seem like him minimizing the impact of 100s of % price increase but just trying to understand the end customer real world impact. I understand if you don't want to share those numbers - just wondering out loud how much of the price increase we are seeing in everything is due to shipping cost?


My situation is impacted pretty hard by container freight costs because I'm bringing in stone.
A container from Turkey will hold roughly 3,000 SF of travertine pavers for me so it used to be a tick over $1.00 SF in ocean freight.
Now that I'm paying $8K +, my ocean freight per SF is closer to $3.00 SF.

The overland freight has gone up too. I won't send any of my semi's out of state so I rely on freight companies to bring in my material from Long Beach and Houston.
I used to be able to get flatbed rates out of California for $950.00 or so. Now I'm real lucky to keep it down to $1,200 and it's more typical to pay $1,500. I've had quotes as high as $2,400. (Need to get some of those underpaid 18 year old's in a seat).
 

Marios Metalworks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2019
Messages
1,811
Reaction score
3,718
For those of you who rely on imported inputs; would you say “phase one” of the China deal has benefited you? Seams like there’s been a substantial amount of retaliation from overseas trading partners.
 
Last edited:

sirbob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
10,565
Reaction score
14,495
We use about 250 to 300 containers a month from S. Korea and from Thailand. We weight out a container before we cube it out. Basically we can put 90 2CM slabs of quartz or 60 3CM slabs of quartz per container.

Because we book containers months in advance we are not paying the spot price of 20k, but we have gone from about 2,700 bucks to about 13,000 bucks. For simple math lets just say that is a 10k increase.

10 grand over 60 slabs of quartz is an extra 167 bucks a slab. 10 grand over 90 slabs is an extra 111 bucks a slab.

All of our pricing is FOB, so the end user pays the freight increase.

Prior to the quartz tariffs of over 300 percent and the shipping increases you could buy a grade A quality directional veined slab of quartz for 300 bucks wholesale and it would cost about 30 bucks per slab for shipping. Now it is 1050 wholesale plus shipping of 144 per slab.

The cost of our products to the end consumer has increased almost 3.5x between tariffs and shipping. That is some serious inflation on the average guy building or renovating his house. 😳😳😳
My situation is impacted pretty hard by container freight costs because I'm bringing in stone.
A container from Turkey will hold roughly 3,000 SF of travertine pavers for me so it used to be a tick over $1.00 SF in ocean freight.
Now that I'm paying $8K +, my ocean freight per SF is closer to $3.00 SF.

The overland freight has gone up too. I won't send any of my semi's out of state so I rely on freight companies to bring in my material from Long Beach and Houston.
I used to be able to get flatbed rates out of California for $950.00 or so. Now I'm real lucky to keep it down to $1,200 and it's more typical to pay $1,500. I've had quotes as high as $2,400. (Need to get some of those underpaid 18 year old's in a seat).


Thanks for sharing some real world numbers - it's easy to see how the retail price can jump very quickly when the shipping fees are so volatile right now.
 

Havaduner

Never home on weekends
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
3,362
Reaction score
1,617
For those of you who rely on imported inputs; would you say “phase one” of the China deal has benefited you? Seams like there’s been a substantial amount of retaliation from overseas trading partners.


This isn't raw material cost increases from China. These are increases on freight (not all freight co's are Asian owned.) Demand for containers is up, worldwide. EVERYONE scaled back when Covid hit, thinking demand for everything would go down. Just the opposite.
Ocean freight was hit hard. Hiccups happened. Remember the stuck freighter in the Suez canal? Those lines still havent recovered from that hiccup.
Here, the back log is created by: slow unload reload times at the port; not enough chassis to put all the containers on, back log on rail freight heading east. back log getting empty containers back out here. Freight companies saying we ain't waiting, sending ships back empty to get the high price containers adding to the demand for containers in Asia. It's a never ending circle jerk. Add in now is peak shipping time and the back log is now front page news cuz there isn't going to be cheap flat screens at WalMart for Christmas. It's looking like 2Q 2022 before relief will be seen.
 

530RL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
21,174
Reaction score
20,146
It would appear the laws of Supply and Demand have not been revoked……


 
Top