Battle of the Ex-Spouse... Bnag!

[was thatguy]

Are we now assuming real dad was a saint?


The dads actions prove he isn’t a saint. You don’t go this route screaming and yelling at someone’s front door to accomplish what he was trying to accomplish. The shooter is a loose cannon also. Two hot heads resulted in a bad outcome. Cool heads prevail, always.

I’m surprised you don’t hear about more of these types of cases. Ive seen divorce and child custody up close, add in new relationships and it’s a recipe for disaster.

As we decided last week in the dungeon, plenty of stupid to go around.
Kids are likely tomorrow’s headlines.

 

[was thatguy]

 

[rrrr]

My interpretation of the shooting and Texas law...

He's gonna be charged with murder. Actually, he will probably be charged with capital murder, which occurs when murder is accompanied with another felony. The shooter was interfering with child custody, which is a felony.

The penalty for capital murder is life without parole or the death sentence. If he goes to trial, he will get life without parole. The DA won't go for the death penalty, so he's gonna leave prison in a box. If he pleads guilty to murder instead of going to trial, he's looking at twenty years or more.

That was one of the most stupid shootings I've seen. The victim wasn't a threat to him or the woman, and when he stepped back, he had the choice to hold the guy at bay and call 911. His decision to shoot when he wasn't being threatened or menaced removes the self defense claim.

He's going down.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Heres the case they are building against the shooter - I guessed this tactic in the dungeon thread.
It leverages the felony crime of not producing the kid when you are supposed to (a pattern that was repeated) which will cancel any castle doctrine claim, and that the shooter injected himself into a discussion that he wasnt a part of then escalated with a gun where none was before.
I think the guy will go down in criminal court, and if he slips that civil will get him.


As stated in court documents, Read showed up at his ex-wife’s place of business to find his son. Read’s attorney said, per Chad and Christina Read’s custody agreement, Chad was entitled to pick up his child at that time.

“He was supposed to get the children when they were released from school, and so they were to be released from school that day at 3:15,” Harris told Good Morning America.

“He was not told where his child was. They were basically playing hide the ball with him, with regard to his child,” Buzbee told KLBK News. “That had happened in the past. He was frustrated as many people would be, but he didn’t bring a weapon.”

At that point, “defendant William Kyle Carruth interjected himself into the conversation, went inside the place of business and returned with a gun,” according to the petition.

“Carruth should have never injected himself into the argument, and he certainly should have never brought a gun. That was unreasonable,” Buzbee stated.

In the interview with GMA, Harris said Carruth’s actions could be considered a violation of a Texas Penal Code when a person interferes with child custody, violating terms of a court order.

“If Mr. Carruth was aiding and abetting someone who is interfering with child custody, that is a state jail felony in Texas. If you’re interfering with child custody, that’s a felony charge,” Harris explained.

 

[shunter2005]

RUT-ROH!! Could be looking bad for the home team. Not sure how Carruth is guilty of Interfering with Child Custody. Not his child, so he really doesn't have a dog in this hunt, UNLESS they find he is complicit with his now wife to hide the child and prevent the now dead father from his legal visit and pickup. Maybe they are thinking, since he killed the father, he interfered with child custody even though it wasn't his child. Hmmm.... The ex-wife could certainly be guilty of that. Will be interesting to see if and how they pull it off to connect him to that charge. By the way, Interfering with Child Custody is a State Jail Felony in Texas. The lowest felony class in the code, but still a felony.

@Uncle Dave - who is this Harris person? Maybe Read's (the dead guy) attorney? Is Buzbee = Tony Buzbee?? If so, he's the lawyer with 20+ civil sexual misconduct lawsuits against DeShaun Watson, who used to be with the Texans.

Looks like these two lawyers are just pandering to the media for some attention. Lawyers always want to be in the news. Even bad press is good for their practice. Just thowing shit up and seeing if anything sticks.

First thing we do, Kill all the lawyers! - William Shakespeare - King Henry VI

 

[Uncle Dave]

RUT-ROH!! Could be looking bad for the home team. Not sure how Carruth is guilty of Interfering with Child Custody. Not his child, so he really doesn't have a dog in this hunt, UNLESS they find he is complicit with his now wife to hide the child and prevent the now dead father from his legal visit and pickup. Maybe they are thinking, since he killed the father, he interfered with child custody even though it wasn't his child. Hmmm.... The ex-wife could certainly be guilty of that. Will be interesting to see if and how they pull it off to connect him to that charge. By the way, Interfering with Child Custody is a State Jail Felony in Texas. The lowest felony class in the code, but still a felony.

@Uncle Dave - who is this Harris person? Maybe Read's (the dead guy) attorney? Is Buzbee = Tony Buzbee?? If so, he's the lawyer with 20+ civil sexual misconduct lawsuits against DeShaun Watson, who used to be with the Texans.

Looks like these two lawyers are just pandering to the media for some attention. Lawyers always want to be in the news. Even bad press is good for their practice. Just thowing shit up and seeing if anything sticks.

First thing we do, Kill all the lawyers! - William Shakespeare - King Henry VI

Heres the full story and link.

Chad Read’s widow files $50 million wrongful death lawsuit

LUBBOCK, Texas — On Monday, Chad Read’s widow, Jennifer Read, filed a $50 million wrongful death lawsuit against William Kyle Carruth, alleging negligence/gross negligence, civil assaul…

www.everythinglubbock.com

Whats the diff between a lawyer and a catfish?
Ones a scum sucking bottom dweller - the other one's a fish.

 

[rrrr]

In the interview with GMA, Harris said Carruth’s actions could be considered a violation of a Texas Penal Code when a person interferes with child custody, violating terms of a court order.

“If Mr. Carruth was aiding and abetting someone who is interfering with child custody, that is a state jail felony in Texas. If you’re interfering with child custody, that’s a felony charge,” Harris explained.

This is happening just as I said it would. His felony interference with child custody will up the charge to capital murder. That's the equivalent to California's special circumstances charges.

He's looking at life without parole, and the state has a slam dunk case.

The DA will tell his attorney "Your client will be found guilty of capital murder at trial. That's a certainty. I won't make this a death penalty case, and that means automatic life without parole upon conviction. If he pleads guilty, the state will agree to fifty years. I suggest you encourage him to take the offer."

 

[rivrrts429]

This is happening just as I said it would. His felony interference with child custody will up the charge to capital murder. That's the equivalent to California's special circumstances charges.

He's looking at life without parole, and the state has a slam dunk case.

The DA will tell his attorney "Your client will be found guilty of capital murder at trial. That's a certainty. I won't make this a death penalty case, and that means automatic life without parole upon conviction. If he pleads guilty, the state will agree to fifty years. I suggest you encourage him to take the offer."

I’d still take my chances with a jury of a plea that has 50 years. I just need one juror to sympathize with me. 25 years and I’m thinking about a plea.

 

[shunter2005]

The plot thickens..... Lubbock Count DA files motion to recuse the office in this case. DA says he may be called as a witness. Case will be turned over to the Texas Attorney General's office for investigation/prosecution.
And more info coming to light, that the shooter had a close connection to a State District Court Judge in Lubbock.

Everybody knows everybody!!!

Lubbock Co. DA’s Office files motion to recuse itself from Nov. 5 deadly shooting

UPDATE: The video of the deadly confrontation has been released. Find it here. LUBBOCK, Texas — The Lubbock County District Attorney’s Office filed a motion Wednesday to recuse itself f…

www.everythinglubbock.com

 

[rrrr]

Shooter was not being threatened at all in the beginning. Everything was directed to the ex-wife, who was clearly trying to keep her distance from the soon to be dead guy. Dead guy was talking very loud at the ex-wife, but mainly threatening to take her and her family to court regarding parental visitation rights. Now, the eventual shooter did have the right to tell the dead guy to leave, did so, and dead guy was guilty of criminal trespass at that point because he did not leave the premises. However, criminal trespass is generally not enforced until trespasser is advised by LE to vacate the premises. Instead of going inside and arming himself and escalating the situation, shooter should have called 911 to have the trespasser removed. I don't believe the Castle Doctrine or Stand your ground applies in this situation, since they were outside the home and dead guy made no attempt to enter the residence. The Texas Penal Code states, the use of force is not justified in response to verbal provocation alone. The use of "force", but not deadly force is allowed if the actor (shooter) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used and was not committing a crime, other than a traffic offense. This shooter was guilty on both counts of this. Section 42.01.8 (Disorderly Conduct) of the TPC states, "it is an offense if a person displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm". Also, could be another offense of discharging a firearm in a public place. Both misdeanors. This does not reach the level where "deadly force" would be authorized under the Texas Penal Code.

Dead guy was pretty lucky that the first shot missed his foot or leg. You can be sure that the dead guy was pissed after that and got nose to nose with shooter. A pretty dumb move on dead guy's part. Guilty of criminal trespass, a Class B misdemeanor? Yes. Had LE been called, dead guy would have been told to leave. Failure to do so (or returning after being advised not to return) would have resulted in his arrest.

Even with the dead guy getting nose to nose with shooter, the shooter was doing a little pushback of his own with the rifle, but I digress, this was no where near the level to use deadly force. Even when the dead guy grabbed the gun and spun him out and away from the porch, he was several feet away and not in imminent fear or death or serious bodily injury, as dead guy was unarmed. Bottom line, he didn't have to pull the trigger to save his life or the life of the ex-wife. He pulled the trigger because he was pissed that the dead guy threw him off his own porch (my opinion).

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. The district attorney's office will probably file charges and present it to a Lubbock County Grand Jury. Almost all cases where a death occurs are presented to the GJ. They will decide, based on the facts of the case, as presented by the DA and any witness he/she subpoenas, whether to true bill (indict) or no bill this idiot. If the district attorney believes he acted under within the law, that da can request a no-bill. However, the GJ is under no obligation to do so and may indict if they so choose.

I agree with your analysis.

 

[Backlash]

The plot thickens.....

 

[shunter2005]

This is happening just as I said it would. His felony interference with child custody will up the charge to capital murder. That's the equivalent to California's special circumstances charges.

He's looking at life without parole, and the state has a slam dunk case.

The DA will tell his attorney "Your client will be found guilty of capital murder at trial. That's a certainty. I won't make this a death penalty case, and that means automatic life without parole upon conviction. If he pleads guilty, the state will agree to fifty years. I suggest you encourage him to take the offer."

The underlying cause of this homicide, interfering with child custody (if in fact, he could be charged with this offense) is not listed as one of the crimes committed, that would/could upgrade this homicide to a Capital Murder. #2 below states the crimes if committed, that can be used to upgrade a murder to a capital murder charge in Texas.

From the Texas Penal Code.
Sec. 19.03. CAPITAL MURDER. (a) A person commits an offense if the person commits murder as defined under Section 19.02(b)(1) and:
(1) the person murders a peace officer or fireman who is acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty and who the person knows is a peace officer or fireman;
(2) the person intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat under Section 22.07(a)(1), (3), (4), (5), or (6);
(3) the person commits the murder for remuneration or the promise of remuneration or employs another to commit the murder for remuneration or the promise of remuneration;

There are other types of murders that can be a reason to upgrade to a CM charge, but none apply to this situation. Killing for remuneration, killing a child, killing more than one person in the same event and more, but I didn't want to bore you with useless info.

 

[shunter2005]

I’d still take my chances with a jury of a plea that has 50 years. I just need one juror to sympathize with me. 25 years and I’m thinking about a plea.

Mighty big gamble. If it's 11-1 for guilty and they hang up, Judge declares a mistrial and they do it all over again. Just like Vegas, you are playing the house and the odds are always more in the house's favor. At 11-1 guilt, the DA feels pretty dang good trying it again. Conversely, if it's like 3-9 for not guilty, the DA isn't so fired up to tee it up again and would probably try to get any type of a plea he could.

 

[DaveC]

Another perspective the prosecutor may use in the trial….

It might be argued there was not a confrontation or fight BEFORE the gun was pulled. They might argue what transpired before the gun was a discussion on the child custody issue but not a fight.

If so, when the gun was pulled then it was the shooter that initiated the confrontation when he came back to the porch. Initiating the confrontation removes the right of self defense.

Also that step back (after getting tossed) and separation, that removes the in “immediate” harm claim at that time. He was too far from the other guy to be in immediate danger since the victim was not armed. No self defense can be claimed at that time. IMHO he would need to wait until victim advanced on shooter again. (Which would be suicide IMHO)

Not open and shut by any means.

 

[was thatguy]

5 bucks says he doesn’t get anything beyond a manslaughter charge.

 

[rrrr]

The underlying cause of this homicide, interfering with child custody (if in fact, he could be charged with this offense) is not listed as one of the crimes committed, that would/could upgrade this homicide to a Capital Murder. #2 below states the crimes if committed, that can be used to upgrade a murder to a capital murder charge in Texas.

From the Texas Penal Code.
Sec. 19.03. CAPITAL MURDER. (a) A person commits an offense if the person commits murder as defined under Section 19.02(b)(1) and:
(1) the person murders a peace officer or fireman who is acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty and who the person knows is a peace officer or fireman;
(2) the person intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat under Section 22.07(a)(1), (3), (4), (5), or (6);
(3) the person commits the murder for remuneration or the promise of remuneration or employs another to commit the murder for remuneration or the promise of remuneration;

There are other types of murders that can be a reason to upgrade to a CM charge, but none apply to this situation. Killing for remuneration, killing a child, killing more than one person in the same event and more, but I didn't want to bore you with useless info.

I assumed it qualified for the upcharge for capital murder without verification. Thanks for the clarification.

While the guy hasn't been arrested, I'm going to be surprised if a grand jury no bills him. I don't think the situation escalated to permissive deadly force.

 

[ssc]

As I stated down below, I believe he will be charged. If my understanding of the players is correct, the shooter had some connections and thought he was above the law. Looks like they are running for cover before the indictment. Just like the Aubrey case, the shooters thought they were covered. Once the video came out and publicity started, actions had/have to be taken.

Cheers, Steve

 

[DC-88]

The only thing for certain this video shows, is that if a person is gonna grab a loaded gun someone else is holding , he/she better make damn sure they can disarm the guy cleanly. Maybe the physically smaller shooter shown here has his forearms jacked like Popeye's from petting the rat more often since he's the one now stuck with the old ex wife ? Tragic for the kid in the custody battle, and parents of the deceased.

 

[shunter2005]

I assumed it qualified for the upcharge for capital murder without verification. Thanks for the clarification.

While the guy hasn't been arrested, I'm going to be surprised if a grand jury no bills him. I don't think the situation escalated to permissive deadly force.

I agree 100%. This idiot brought all this on himself once he made the conscious decision to go inside and come back out with a gun. Personally, I think he is going to get hammered. Huge bond, but he may have the $$$'s to make it and hire a big name attorney. He's gonna need it. I also think he will get some heavy duty pen time if he goes to trial. Those Lubbock folks aren't going to take kindly to someone who doesn't fight fair. Might also see a change of venue request from the defense, citing Carruth can't get a fair trial in Lubbock County. In the end, the defense may wind up trying to plea it down so he gets out sometime before he dies of old age or a lover's shive. Cops and DA's very seldom get a case with video like this. Hell, I'm not a lawyer and I could try this case and win, as could most of you. The scary part is, it's almost to good. No freakin' way a self defense argument holds water here.

Many times suspects in cases like this aren't arrested at the scene, as the investigators don't have enough probable cause to arrest at that time. Carruth will be easy enough to find and arrest when the time comes. And, it will come. They will finish the investigation and will have to meet with the Attorney General's office before any charges are actually filed. It's going to take the AG's office some time to get up to speed, since taking over the case. From the outside, it looks pretty clear cut what happened.

I would also bet that the divorce of the dead guy and the ex wife was pretty contentous and bitter and had been that way ever since. Spouses use their kids as pawns just to jack with the other. Not fair to anyone, especially the kids. The guy was looking for some excuse to stop or end these unfriendly exchanges between the exes. Bad decision on his part.

 

[rrrr]

I think your assessment is accurate.

The victim was acting reasonably in the minutes leading up to his murder. His temper was under control, and he clearly stated his intention to file a court action to halt the ex-wife's illegal actions and gave examples of how she was denying him his legal rights under the child custody agreement. He didn't make any threats of physical violence, and kept distance between himself and the ex.

Based on the amount of time the shooter was inside the house, it appears he accessed the weapon and loaded it before returning outside. He did so in a deliberate manner, and didn't display any indication he felt there was an imminent threat to his safety. That will be used as evidence against him, as it negates any argument he was justified in using deadly force.

 

[DaveC]

I agree with everything said above.


The only wild card here is what the victim whispered to the shooter. We cannot hear the first exchange. Who knows..

The victim could have told the shooter he was gonna kill him

 

[Orange Juice]

I agree with everything said above.


The only wild card here is what the victim whispered to the shooter. We cannot hear the first exchange. Who knows..

The victim could have told the shooter he was gonna kill him

Guns are dangerous. People go to jail everyday for using them. Some will face the death penalty. There is absolutely nothing innocent about a gun.

Texas will make this idiot an example. 50 to life. All the guy want, was to spent time with his kid.

 

[was thatguy]

Guns are dangerous. People go to jail everyday for using them. Some will face the death penalty. There is absolutely nothing innocent about a gun.

Texas will make this idiot an example. 50 to life. All the guy want, was to spent time with his kid.

You know the guy do you?

 

[Orange Juice]

I know guys like him….don’t we all?

 

[was thatguy]

I know guys like him….don’t we all?

Yes, I do know some idiots now that you mention it...!

 

[Orange Juice]

Yes, I do know some idiots now that you mention it...!

It’s what makes life real.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

This is covered in depth in TX LTC courses.

The boyfriend is safe under Stand Your Ground laws. It was his property (doesn't matter whether he rents or owns) and the ex was "trespassing" the moment he was asked to leave and refused. The boyfriend then armed himself and asked the ex to leave again. Then the ex used "force" as defined by Texas law to potentially inflict harm to the boyfriend. In Texas, the use of "lethal force" in response to "force" where there is a reasonable belief that there is intent to harm (shoving and going for the gun) is 100% legal.

The only kicker would be if the child was clearly on the property and that the child being there was in clear violation of a legal custody agreement/order, then the ex would have had some ground to stand on. But the video clearly stated that the child was not there.

In a nut shell:
Ex walks on to boyfriends property: legal
Boyfriend asks ex to leave: legal
Ex refuses to leave: he is now legally a trespasser
Boyfriend arms himself ("force") and asks the "trespasser" to leave again: legal
Tresspasser assaults (shoves) boyfriend
Boyfriend is now legally entitled to use "lethal force" to defend himself and fires a warning shot at trespassers feet.
Tresspasser makes a move for the gun and boyfriend shoots the tresspasser.

It is a clean shoot. Boyfriend will be let off as he should be.

Now as said, if the girlfriend/exs child was being held there in violation of a custody agreement, it would be a whole different story but it sounds like the child was elsewhere.

Texas defines the brandishing of a firearm as "force" it is not until the firearm is pointed at a person that it is legally considered "lethal force"

My thoughts exactly. And pretty much what I said in the dungeon.

Dont know if there was a potential threat previously from either party. We dont know if there were lives threatened? Did he feel threatened and was protecting his kids inside? But from the reaction of all parties involved non of them seem surprised, so to me there was more to this then what we see! Jmo

We do know that he was trespassing, asked to leave multiple times and refusing to leave, even knowing that his kid wasnt even there.

I'm a firm believer "innocent till proven guilty" as we all should be.

Does the kid not want to go back to the dad? Is there more to that side of the story? Is there abuse involved?

The reaction from the lady in the car which I assuming is his wife, showed little reaction and never got hysterical. Sorry you dont just sit there all nonchalant with little reaction when you husband has been shot if there had been no previous issues. Either that or she really didnt love him anyway. I dont care who you are you would have atleast opened the car door and attempted to check on the husband.

I dont know.... something is fishy about that whole situation and the reaction of the results.

Again this is just my opinion.

 

[Wedgy]

My thoughts exactly. And pretty much what I said in the dungeon.

Dont know if there was a potential threat previously from either party. We dont know if there were lives threatened? Did he feel threatened and was protecting his kids inside? But from the reaction of all parties involved non of them seem surprised, so to me there was more to this then what we see! Jmo

We do know that he was trespassing, asked to leave multiple times and refusing to leave, even knowing that his kid wasnt even there.

I'm a firm believer "innocent till proven guilty" as we all should be.

Does the kid not want to go back to the dad? Is there more to that side of the story? Is there abuse involved?

The reaction from the lady in the car which I assuming is his wife, showed little reaction and never got hysterical. Sorry you dont just sit there all nonchalant with little reaction when you husband has been shot if there had been no previous issues. Either that or she really didnt love him anyway. I dont care who you are you would have atleast opened the car door and attempted to check on the husband.

I dont know.... something is fishy about that whole situation and the reaction of the results.

Again this is just my opinion.

In regards to your opinion on the reaction of the Lady in the car. You mean truck. Clearly shown in the video from inside the house. You're wrong about that. Right? So. What else? Let's review the evidence, shall we?

In her statement, She states, and will likely testify, she thought it was some kind of stun gun, not a fiream. This is consistent with her immediate reaction. There is a longer version of her video, now released. The longer video shows her dropping the phone on the floorboard, and the door opening as she exits the truck. Very verbal at this point. You can hear her reaction when She goes off on the Shooter when she realizes her husband has been shot. Clearly. She is pissed.

 

[was thatguy]

On a side note, Chicago officially beat their modern day record of 796 murders in one year. (From 1996)
They hit 797 dead today!

If you like arguing murders theres a new one every ten hours there. No need to wait for you tube to supply one.

Anyway, congrats to the south side Boyz!
They’ll top 850 by years end, but work in total obscurity.

Chicago Crime, Murder & Mayhem | Criminal Infographics | HeyJackass!

Illustrating the Chicago Values of Crime, Murder & Mayhem with comprehensive charts, precise graphs and exhaustive data sets of Chicago stupidity.

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[ArizonaKevin]

A breakdown by some people that are smarter than me.