15 yr mortgage loan vs 20 vs 30

[Justfishing]

There are several ways to look at this. A 15 year mortgage is forced discipline to invest. In this case investment in the equity of your home. The rate of return is low, the interest rate.

Now there is something called opportunity cost. Opportunity cost would be the difference in taking another route.

A second option is to pay extra to your principal. This requires personal discipline to make the extra monthly payment. It does give the freedom to use the extra payment for an unexpected need.

A third option is to invest the extra money. Are you maxing out 401k. Or you could put it into an ira or other investment. If you mortgage has a 3% interest rate and your investment make 10% you come out ahead with this route. Again it takes discipline.

Something that hasnt been talked about are loan costs. The payback could be5-7 years. If you move within that time you would lose money. Also if you took the loan costs and paid that towards the existing loan it reduces the total cost of your existing loan.

If you look at a loan each payment consists of prinipal and interest. Your loan payment stays the same over the loan. In the beginning your balance is at its highest. Therefore the interest cost is at its highest. Now after 5 years you have whittled away at the balance so less of your payment goes to interest and more to principal. Because of this it makes more sense to pay extra early in the loan.it gives you more time to compound your interest. But it also has bigger opportunity cost if a better invest is available.

 

[rivermobster]

Hear ya go...

https://www.calculator.net/amortization-calculator.html

In the beginning, you're paying 11k of interest the first year.

At the end, you're only paying 643.00 of interest per year.

 

[DC-88]

[QUOTE="rrrr, post: 3603430, member: 367"
For me, the idea of having a 30 year and making extra payments wasn't attractive, because I felt we would find excuses to spend money on other things and fall back to making fewer payments each year. It takes a lot of discipline to make double payments, and it's easy to start skipping them and rationalizing it. That's something to consider.[/QUOTE]
That how I've always done it too. Get the 15 and when possible add principle in chunks or add to each payment. You can always borrow against a paid off property later to do a business or construction venture, but won't be paying interest every month of your life which adds up like crazy on a 30 compared to hitting a HELOC for 18 months and then paying it off when the venture the capitol was needed for is over or re-financed. I guess in my case since I spend a lot of money on toys and other things without a cushy pension at the end of the road it's always been in the back of my mind to pay everything off and create an income stream that I can use to keep my lifestyle going, not make interest payments till death . Property taxes will be bad enough. Plus, my kids are more than solid, and while we plan 100% to keep on on living it up, I'd be proud to leave them some paid off properties rather than leveraged ones if they stay on course. It really works if yore diligent. We bought a 3/2 in Havasu 4-1/2 years ago from Stacy and Paul and I just got off the phone with the lender to get the actual payoff since the principle was already down to $2,300 . The MAGA isn't hurting either, now is a great time to knock down some principle for most people including the OP imho.

 

[LuauLounge]

What worked for us, we were looking to buy a new house and our payments would triple. So, we decided to make the same payment on the house we owned.
Amazing how fast the balance dropped.
Then our credit union had a real deal on HELOC loans. Low interest, no fees and interest was locked for 2 years. Paid off the house, but still have the HELOC, great for short term, buy something new, sell the old without dealing with new financing.

 

[Carlson-jet]

total wrong.... the amount of interest you pay is based on how much you owe... it's the same percent front or last payment..

Hate to say it , You're wrong. unless you are wordsmithing here.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I went from 30 to 20, about 3 years ago, which dropped my interest rate by 1 full %, removed 3.5 years and raised my payment by 12$. I was paying 41$ a month over I’m now paying 113$ over and at this rate I’ll have the 20 paid in 13.75 years. So I’ll have mine paid off in less than 21 years total (if i was to stay here) but that’s at the number I’m at now. However I’ve been upping it a little here and there as well tossing a few on it here and there. My interest rate is low enough tho that investing my money is better today however paying this Cracker Jack shack off would free up a chunk so i do still do a little extra for that reason.

 

[HB2Havasu]

All my clients that ever do 15 year loans, refinance out of them a year later.

Get a 30 right now at under 4% and make a 15 year payment. Accomplishing the same thing......

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I was going to suggest the same thing. Makes a lot of sense as your not locked in if you fall on hard times, health reasons, etc... You can always fall back to the 30 year rate until things go back to normal. You just need to have the self discipline to make the 15 year payment rate on a monthly basis! That’s where most fail.

 

[TCHB]

15

 

[Xring01]

Good stuff, thanks. I’m thinking I’m going to go with the 20 year. I feel comfortable with those numbers. I’ll send the extra anyways but it leaves me a little more cushion for the what if’s. I know the market is on fire and I should be in it but I don’t even know where to start. To me paying off my house is the safe bet and I like that. If it’s paid off in 15 years I’ll still have another 15 years of work before retirement to invest. At the time hopefully I can get aggressive. I jist turned 32 I’d love to have the house paid off before 50. Maybe I can retire early who knows. I know I don’t want any payments on a fixed income.

I highly recommend you look at how investing early, and how compound interest works....

Pay you house off early, but also invest in your retirement at the same time....

over 15-20 years you will be financially better off, than just paying off the mortgage. Thats due to compound interest of your retirement investments.

Trying to remember the rule of thumb...
$800/mth for 20 years at 8% returns = $1Million... something to that effect..
But the same scenario at 10 years is way less than half.....

Do the math your self in retirement calculators, instead of trusting me..

You will quickly learn the sooner you begin, the faster you get there, butwaiting to long, can prevent you from getting there.

 

[Your ad here]

How long are you going to be in that house before moving to another one? I would stay with the 30 and overpay on the principal. In 10 years when your kids are teenagers and busy with sports and going to the river you may want to apply that $1000 towards the kids instead of the house payment. It's still possible to do that with a 30. If you do a 15 your are committed to apply that $1000 to the mortgage instead of the kids. Having your house paid off is a big accomplishment and feels good. Being a slave to the house that whole time you're making payments is not a good feeling.

 

[Carlson-jet]

Simple way to put it.
First payment $50 went to principle.
Now 10 years later $50 goes towards interest.
The numbers completely flipped.

 

[ChumpChange]

Says the banking whore.


Or did I miss the sarcasm in your post.

My investment return on cash is easily above the 3.375% I pay on my 30yr mortgage. For every extra dollar I put towards my house, I’m losing money.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Check this one out guys. Put my buddy into a 30 year at 3.99% in 2015. We have talked about refinancing before but it never really made sense.

As his mortgage advisor I put something together for him last week, too good to pass up.

$25k cash out, 25 year fixed at 3.5%

Payment stays the same, he keeps the same payoff trajectory, pays less interest and now gets to go buy a 2nd home that will cash flow as an AirBNB.

Winning.

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[Carlson-jet]

My investment return on cash is easily above the 3.375% I pay on my 30yr mortgage. For every extra dollar I put towards my house, I’m losing money.

That is the real argument here.
Smart money.
I don't think most are capable of pulling that off year over year for 30 years.
In the end, saving and investing is better than spending out of control.
That's why I listen to many guys on here. They know how to make money.

 

[Xring01]

Check this one out guys. Put my buddy into a 30 year at 3.99% in 2015. We have talked about refinancing before but it never really made sense.

As his mortgage advisor I put something together for him last week, too good to pass up.

$25k cash out, 25 year fixed at 3.5%

Payment stays the same, he keeps the same payoff trajectory, pays less interest and now gets to go buy a 2nd home that will cash flow as an AirBNB.

Winning.

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Assuming many things, but one wrong assumption,,, can lead to financial disaster...
Just ask all the people in Socal who bought homes in 1996 1997.. what those homes were worth a few years later...

or when city bans Air Bnbs....

assumption can whip your ass in a blink of an eye

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Check this one out guys. Put my buddy into a 30 year at 3.99% in 2015. We have talked about refinancing before but it never really made sense.

As his mortgage advisor I put something together for him last week, too good to pass up.

$25k cash out, 25 year fixed at 3.5%

Payment stays the same, he keeps the same payoff trajectory, pays less interest and now gets to go buy a 2nd home that will cash flow as an AirBNB.

Winning.

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You licensed in AZ?

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

You licensed in AZ?

Yep, our company can lend in all 50 states.



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[OldSchoolBoats]

Assuming many things, but one wrong assumption,,, can lead to financial disaster...
Just ask all the people in Socal who bought homes in 1996 1997.. what those homes were worth a few years later...

or when city bans Air Bnbs....

assumption can whip your ass in a blink of an eye

Most billionaires didn't get there without taking chances and failing multiple times........that's life.

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[LargeOrangeFont]

My investment return on cash is easily above the 3.375% I pay on my 30yr mortgage. For every extra dollar I put towards my house, I’m losing money.

This. At a minimum max applicable 401ks if you aren’t already.

My house is at 3.5 @ 30 years, I pay one extra payment a year and that is it. 401k is maxed and at least $1k goes to investment accounts per month.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yep, our company can lend in all 50 states.



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Cool. Ill ping you tomorrow. A workup like the above might be interesting, or just a simple refi on the Havasu pad.

 

[BHC Vic]

Even if I don’t live in this house forever I don’t see myself ever selling it. If I take a job working at the international somewhere down the line I’m looking at a double pension. Just other thoughts I have. Again all good stuff and like having options and things to think about.

 

[bowtiejunkie]

What the hell is going here. I thought RDP paid cash for everything?

For BHC Vic, I’d just have a mortgage broker run the numbers and see if they make sense for your situation and goals.

 

[RCDave]

My investment return on cash is easily above the 3.375% I pay on my 30yr mortgage. For every extra dollar I put towards my house, I’m losing money.

Assuming home values remain constant or increase, networth increases for ever dollar of debt repaid. Nothing wrong with a deleveraging strategy....

 

[BHC Vic]

I’m kind of surprised to see so many against the 15 yr loan. Most I’ve talked to away from the board, say to do it now and never look back. The text messages are from my guy so you can see he’s all for it if I can swing it.

 

[RCDave]

I’m kind of surprised to see so many against the 15 yr loan. Most I’ve talked to away from the board, say to do it now and never look back. The text messages are from my guy so you can see he’s all for it if I can swing it.

There's nothing wrong with a 15 year am. It's a good strategy to build networth and be debt free on a large asset purchase quickly.

 

[Xring01]

Most billionaires didn't get there without taking chances and failing multiple times........that's life.

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Yep, and Mortgage Company’s giving people the above advice, is a key factor in the 2006/07 housing Meltdown and BK’d several countrys, that bought US based Mortgage Securitys. And led the US to a huge recession. That is a fact, dare you to argue it????

Seriously, where are the Ethics in Mortage Brokerage industry... Those guys should have been locked up.... I witnessed people making $60,000 who qualified to buy $400,000 propertys, with zero down and 2% property tax.... Yep $8K/ year in property tax... well over 10% of monthly take home in property tax alone... WTF???

Refinancing your primary residence to invest in anything is just stupid......
Maybe you need to read a few books before spreading your knowledge.

 

[Xring01]

I’m kind of surprised to see so many against the 15 yr loan. Most I’ve talked to away from the board, say to do it now and never look back. The text messages are from my guy so you can see he’s all for it if I can swing it.

A key factor thats not being discussed. Is how much of your monthly income goes towards that 15 year mortgage.

If you buy a 2000 sq ft house for $150K, and 10% of your monthly income pays the 15 year mortgage.. Do it...

But living in SoCal, or many other areas.... people are at 35%, just to get a 30 year mortgage.

There are many factors that have to be considered when making these types of decisions.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yep, and Mortgage Company’s giving people the above advice, is a key factor in the 1997 housing Meltdown and BK’d several countrys, that bought US based Mortgage Securitys. And led the US to a huge recession.

Refinancing your primary residence to invest in anything is just stupid......
Maybe you need to read a few books before spreading your knowledge.

Refinancing your house to purchase other appreciating assets is not stupid. If you have adequate savings, and are in for the right price with the right plan it can be a fine prospect, and great investment.

If you want to talk about opportunity costs.. letting paper equity on your home sit until you die is a huge one.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Yep, and Mortgage Company’s giving people the above advice, is a key factor in the 1997 housing Meltdown and BK’d several countrys, that bought US based Mortgage Securitys. And led the US to a huge recession.

Refinancing your primary residence to invest in anything is just stupid......
Maybe you need to read a few books before spreading your knowledge.

Maybe you should read your history because there was an almost decade long housing boom in the US from 1997 - 2006.

During this period, high cost / high risk mortgages became widely available, leading to the great recession of 2008.

Under current lending standards, defaults are at an all time low.

Between 1995 - 2006 housing rose over 70% when adjusted for inflation.......

Got anymore brain busters???

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[ChumpChange]

Assuming home values remain constant or increase, networth increases for ever dollar of debt repaid. Nothing wrong with a deleveraging strategy....

And what does Net Worth get you? Nothing unless you’re able to leverage it.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’m kind of surprised to see so many against the 15 yr loan. Most I’ve talked to away from the board, say to do it now and never look back. The text messages are from my guy so you can see he’s all for it if I can swing it.

The problem is you have to swing it once you make the decision. Keep in mind, he gets paid if you refi.

 

[RCDave]

And what does Net Worth get you? Nothing unless you’re able to leverage it.

No payment on the roof over the families head. Real net worth is debt free and totally liquid

 

[Xring01]

Maybe you should read your history because there was an almost decade long housing boom in the US from 1997 - 2006.

During this period, high cost / high risk mortgages became widely available, leading to the great recession of 2008.

Under current lending standards, defaults are at an all time low.

Between 1995 - 2006 housing rose over 70% when adjusted for inflation.......

Got anymore brain busters???

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Yep, Does history ever repeat itself?
What happened after WW1..... yep WW2.... history does repeat itself..

What led to the 2006 Housing Crash? Do you think it was un ethical Mortage Brokers, who helped people getting loans that they couldnt afford... Assuming that the housing market only goes up????

I can go on this for hours...

Facts do not lie....

Guess whats worse than un ethical Mortgage Brokers....
Used Car Salesman

When a Used car salesman, sells someone a lemon...well they lost the value of that $$$ spent / borrowed on that car.

When Mortgage goes bad.. people have BK for 7 years.. costing people divorces, suicides, and on and one. It can cost people there jobs, because they cant get a security clearance..

Fire back again... Lets keep this going

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

The problem is you have to swing it once you make the decision. Keep in mind, he gets paid if you refi.

Yep. Wait until his boys start playing travel baseball or something like that. Shit. I was $10K + a year when my daughter did cheer.

Even now, I would rather just pay my cheap 30 year and enjoy life, then try to pay a house of faster. Everyday is not guaranteed so live it to the fullest.

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[Carlson-jet]

Interest rates have exploded prices in many areas.
If interest rates were well above 10% I would like to see what would have happened.
Nothing is stopping that from happening again.

 

[Xring01]

Interest rates have exploded prices in many areas.
If interest rates were well above 10% I would like to see what would have happened.
Nothing is stopping that from happening again.

It will happen again. It has to.
The US National Debt, will force inflation, which will force the fed to raise Interest Rates.
Basic Economics 101.
The key thing that has prevented US inflation for the last 4-5 years, is a global recession.
Once Global economics take off.... The value of the dollar will go down/inflation goes up...

And what happens to interest rates.... Up/Up/Up....

Dollar is high at this time and interests rates are low... hummm
What happens when the dollar is low?

Look back in history, when Carter was president... take a look at the relative value of the dollar to other currencys... and what the interests rates where?

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Yep, Does history ever repeat itself?
What happened after WW1..... yep WW2.... history does repeat itself..

What led to the 1997 Housing Crash? Do you think it was un ethical Mortage Brokers, who helped people getting loans that they couldnt afford... Assuming that the housing market only goes up????

I can go on this for hours...

Facts do not lie....

Guess whats worse than un ethical Mortgage Brokers....
Used Car Salesman

When a Used car salesman, sells someone a lemon...well they lost the value of that $$$ spent / borrowed on that car.

When Mortgage goes bad.. people have BK for 7 years.. costing people divorces, suicides, and on and one. It can cost people there jobs, because they cant get a security clearance..

Fire back again... Lets keep this going

There is no point in continuing an argument with you. Obviously you or someone close to you got burned in the 2008 crash. Sorry that happened to you or them, but that is not my fault. People in high places and at a much higher pay grade than I, decided to create these subprime mortgage pools. Banks created a product, gave it to sales people to sell and ultimately borrowers signed the docs.

As I said, the default rate is at an all time low. Equity is at an all time high and is not being drawn on.

Brokers are making good loans and advising people on how to not work for their house, but let their house work for them.




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[Xring01]

There is no point in continuing an argument with you. Obviously you or someone close to you got burned in the 2008 crash. Sorry that happened to you or them, but that is not my fault. People in high places and at a much higher pay grade than I, decided to create these subprime mortgage pools. Banks created a product, gave it to sales people to sell and ultimately borrowers signed the docs.

As I said, the default rate is at an all time low. Equity is at an all time high and is not being drawn on.

Brokers are making good loans and advising people on how to not work for their house, but let their house work for them.




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Dude, you just admitted your industry has no ethics...

No need to continue... check mate.....

Rule No 1 to my fellow RDP members, never trust people who admit they work in an industry with no ethics.
Because its not the Brokers fault, management made me do it. They are smarter than me...

OSB
You need to learn Right from Wrong,
Justbecause you have the ability to take advantage of idiots, doesnt mean you should.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Dude, you just admitted your industry has no ethics...

No need to continue... check mate.....

Rule No 1 to my fellow RDP members, never trust people who admit they work in an industry with no ethics.
Because its not the Brokers fault, management made me do it. They are smarter than me...

OSB
You need to learn Right from Wrong,
Justbecause you have the ability to take advantage of idiots, doesnt mean you should.

Obviously reading comprehension, spelling and punctuation are not your strong suits.

Bless your heart and have a good night bud......[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

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[Xring01]

You to, I hope you dream of all suckers you get to screw tomorrow.

Appears to be your thing.

 

[Carlson-jet]

There is no point in continuing an argument with you. Obviously you or someone close to you got burned in the 2008 crash. Sorry that happened to you or them, but that is not my fault. People in high places and at a much higher pay grade than I, decided to create these subprime mortgage pools. Banks created a product, gave it to sales people to sell and ultimately borrowers signed the docs.

As I said, the default rate is at an all time low. Equity is at an all time high and is not being drawn on.

Brokers are making good loans and advising people on how to not work for their house, but let their house work for them.




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Obviously reading comprehension, spelling and punctuation are not your strong suits.

Bless your heart and have a good night bud......[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

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Making assumptions.
Bless your heart. LOL
It's all on paper until the dust settles.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Dude, you just admitted your industry has no ethics...

No need to continue... check mate.....

Rule No 1 to my fellow RDP members, never trust people who admit they work in an industry with no ethics.
Because its not the Brokers fault, management made me do it. They are smarter than me...

OSB
You need to learn Right from Wrong,
Justbecause you have the ability to take advantage of idiots, doesnt mean you should.

Jesus! I haven't met Joe but every single person who has met him and worked with him have had nothing but the highest of praise for him.

To call out a guys moral character because you dont believe in his profession is bullshit, narrowminded, and extremely naive. You've said quiet a few things that really show you are an extremely bitter and angry person.

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[Raffit78]

You can also schedule a bi-weekly program with your current mortgage as well. Essentially making 26 bi weekly payments a year, which equals out to 13 months a year. on a 250k 4% loan. You would end up paying 30k less in interest and cutting amortized years by 5. You can even apply more money towards this a month and go even deeper in both saving money and years.

 

[bowtiejunkie]

I’m kind of surprised to see so many against the 15 yr loan. Most I’ve talked to away from the board, say to do it now and never look back. The text messages are from my guy so you can see he’s all for it if I can swing it.

No mortgage broker I’ve ever dealt with has doubled as an investment broker or provided financial planning advice. A mortgage broker and the underwriter’s will determine if you can pay the bill. Unless it’s a friend or family member that is your mortgage broker, they won’t care if you have to eat top ramen for the next 10 years. It’s up to you to determine whether the payment is truly good for budget and financial goals.

Honestly, I’d suggest finding a financial planner. Or, at minimum, start reading books on personal finance. Everyone here has their own financial situation, and goals. I think what you need are a few more tools to be able to independently (or via a financial advisor) determine whether certain financial moves are good or not. You have your head in the right place, and doing well.

I like the flexibility of a 30 year fixed, Pay a little extra principal, and deploy my excess funds into investments earning a lot more than today’s mortgage rates. But, being debt free does feel really good too.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Jesus! I haven't met Joe but every single person who has met him and worked with him have had nothing but the highest of praise for him.

To call out a guys moral character because you dont believe in his profession is bullshit, narrowminded, and extremely naive. You've said quiet a few things that really show you are an extremely bitter and angry person.

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Thanks man. I messaged him because questioning my integrity is a new low for someone here on RDP.

Here is the response I received. I just can't even.....

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[LargeOrangeFont]

Thanks man. I messaged him because questioning my integrity is a new low for someone here on RDP.

Here is the response I received. I just can't even..... View attachment 842810 View attachment 842811

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You forgot he and everyone on here pays cash for all their houses. No one here needs mortgages. Why would anyone own multiple properties assuming being a landlord is a profitable enterprise??? No one makes any money renting real estate.

Banks, equity markets, and cash cash is for dummies. We all stack gold bars under our beds. Well we don’t really have beds because the people that make and sell them are crooks, so we just sleep on the gold bars.

When we want liquidity we just fire up the foundry and melt a couple bars down.

 

[bowtiejunkie]

Thanks man. I messaged him because questioning my integrity is a new low for someone here on RDP.

Here is the response I received. I just can't even..... View attachment 842810 View attachment 842811

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I wouldn’t sweat it. I doubt you’d force a client into a shitty mortgage product. And I don’t even know you.

Damn, the winter blues around here is effecting people good this year.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It will happen again. It has to.
The US National Debt, will force inflation, which will force the fed to raise Interest Rates.
Basic Economics 101.
The key thing that has prevented US inflation for the last 4-5 years, is a global recession.
Once Global economics take off.... The value of the dollar will go down/inflation goes up...

And what happens to interest rates.... Up/Up/Up....

Dollar is high at this time and interests rates are low... hummm
What happens when the dollar is low?

Look back in history, when Carter was president... take a look at the relative value of the dollar to other currencys... and what the interests rates where?

What the hell does ANY that have to do with someone getting a fixed rate mortgage today?

No one gets ARMs when Interest rates are this low.

The way shit is going we will end up with negative rates. It is already happening in other countries.

 

[Xring01]

Flying Lavey

I am quoting OSB
“Obviously you or someone close to you got burned in the 2008 crash. Sorry that happened to you or them, but that is not my fault. People in high places and at a much higher pay grade than I, decided to create these subprime mortgage pools. Banks created a product, gave it to sales people to sell and ultimately borrowers signed the docs.“

Please explain where the accountabilty is in this business sector, explained above? When assumptions are wrong?
Higher Place People?
Banks?
Sales People?
Or the borrower who paid a professional for there advice?

Thats the problem, no accountability, just blame others.

A financial advisor, has a fiduciaries responsibility to there clients. Get sued when they violate that fiduciary responsibility...

what happens to Mortgage brokers when bad brokers, sell things they shouldnt, or help client make up documents to get qualified?
What happens to the banks, or the executives?

well they get bonuses and pay raises...

The customers have BK, a divorce or many other bad things. But no one who got paid in his loan process has any accountability? Should that be legal?

Old School Boats is probably a very honest person, who hasnt learned the dark side of his industry yet. He is most likely performing as he was trained.

But thats not protecting the average consumer who trusts the “ Paid Professional”, who is focused on they next paycheck.

Watch the movie “ The Big Short” or read the book To big to fail.

The housing market has ups and downs, not just ups.
So does the stock market...

One industry can be sued for bad advice, the other cant..., why?
I do not want to see another housing crisis. Therefore, I will tell the other side of the story.

 

[Xring01]

What the hell does ANY that have to do with someone getting a fixed rate mortgage today?

No one gets ARMs when Interest rates are this low.

The way shit is going we will end up with negative rates. It is already happening in other countries.

You missed the statement I replied to...
I was supporting another members statement that intetrest rates will most likely go up in the future..