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15 yr mortgage loan vs 20 vs 30

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LargeOrangeFont

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You missed the statement I replied to...
I was supporting another members statement that intetrest rates will most likely go up in the future..

Again, what does that have to do with cheap money on a mortgage or refi TODAY? If I get a mortgage or refi now, who cares what rates are down the road.

It has nothing to do with someone’s career as a mortgage broker. He offers a product... no one has a gun to their head to accept it.

Interestingly enough rates will also go DOWN in the future too!!!
 

Xring01

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You forgot he and everyone on here pays cash for all their houses. No one here needs mortgages. Why would anyone own multiple properties assuming being a landlord is a profitable enterprise??? No one makes any money renting real estate.

Banks, equity markets, and cash cash is for dummies. We all stack gold bars under our beds. Well we don’t really have beds because the people that make and sell them are crooks, so we just sleep on the gold bars.

When we want liquidity we just fire up the foundry and melt a couple bars down.

A few days ago we had a great thread on rental propertys. If you look at that thread, I wished I could buy a rental in my area, but with 20% down I am still cash flow negative.. so I put that saved money in the stock market... does this sound familiar? It should. You where part of that thread.

I have a 30 year mortgage at 3 3/8 interest but I pay $400-$900/ mth over my payment. Should be paid off in 10 years.
Do my best to max out 401Ks, but thats difficult with 2 kids in college.
But I have one car payment, but its paid for with an auto allowance from my company..
No credit card debt. Lots of monthly bills, insurance’s, water, gas, electricity, internet, trash etc etc.
Cash investment accounts, that I take proceeds out to put into my 401K to mitigate the capital gains on those profits.

Ever heard of stupid tax... think its a Dave Ramsey quote..
Well I am 48 years old, spent alot of stupid tax $$$ over the years. Because I didnt have anyone around me that I could trust for advice. So I had to learn the hard way.

When financial threads come up, I do my best to help out the members, not make the stupid mistakes I have made.
 

bowtiejunkie

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This thread went sideways for sure. IMO, if you as a borrower don't know what you are signing, you should hire a lawyer to explain it to you in language you can understand. A business doesn’t enter into a term loan or revolving line of credit with a bank without a lawyer or legal team reviewing the draft loan docs. Why don’t individuals pay a lawyer to tell them what the hell they are signing when purchasing a home? As I stated above, mortgage don’t provide financial advise. They sell products. The borrower needs to due their due diligence.

we could sit here and say the mortgage industry is full of crooks (some are, most likely are not), but they didn’t hold a gun to a borrower’s head and say “sign”. You don’t hire a salesman to buy a car. Neither due you to get a mortgage. They are simply selling products. As pointed out, hiring a financial planner is entirely different. Handing over money sets up different rules of engagement.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Flying Lavey

I am quoting OSB
“Obviously you or someone close to you got burned in the 2008 crash. Sorry that happened to you or them, but that is not my fault. People in high places and at a much higher pay grade than I, decided to create these subprime mortgage pools. Banks created a product, gave it to sales people to sell and ultimately borrowers signed the docs.“

Please explain where the accountabilty is in this business sector, explained above? When assumptions are wrong?
Higher Place People?
Banks?
Sales People?
Or the borrower who paid a professional for there advice?

Thats the problem, no accountability, just blame others.

A financial advisor, has a fiduciaries responsibility to there clients. Get sued when they violate that fiduciary responsibility...

what happens to Mortgage brokers when bad brokers, sell things they shouldnt, or help client make up documents to get qualified?
What happens to the banks, or the executives?

well they get bonuses and pay raises...

The customers have BK, a divorce or many other bad things. But no one who got paid in his loan process has any accountability? Should that be legal?

Old School Boats is probably a very honest person, who hasnt learned the dark side of his industry yet. He is most likely performing as he was trained.

But thats not protecting the average consumer who trusts the “ Paid Professional”, who is focused on they next paycheck.

Watch the movie “ The Big Short” or read the book To big to fail.

The housing market has ups and downs, not just ups.
So does the stock market...

One industry can be sued for bad advice, the other cant..., why?
I do not want to see another housing crisis. Therefore, I will tell the other side of the story.

The accountability is with the person to read and understand what they are signing up for. It is is not the mortgage broker’s job to tell you if you can afford the payment or not. It is on you to make that decision.
 

Xring01

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Again, what does that have to do with cheap money on a mortgage or refi TODAY? If I get a mortgage or refi now, who cares what rates are down the road.

It has nothing to do with someone’s career as a mortgage broker. He offers a product... no one has a gun to their head to accept it.

Interestingly enough rates will also go DOWN in the future too!!!

Really, there are more that one topic on this thread...
Look at post 85.... thats what my reply was regarding, which is why I quoted it in my reply.
 

Flying_Lavey

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Flying Lavey

I am quoting OSB
“Obviously you or someone close to you got burned in the 2008 crash. Sorry that happened to you or them, but that is not my fault. People in high places and at a much higher pay grade than I, decided to create these subprime mortgage pools. Banks created a product, gave it to sales people to sell and ultimately borrowers signed the docs.“

Please explain where the accountabilty is in this business sector, explained above? When assumptions are wrong?
Higher Place People?
Banks?
Sales People?
Or the borrower who paid a professional for there advice?

Thats the problem, no accountability, just blame others.

A financial advisor, has a fiduciaries responsibility to there clients. Get sued when they violate that fiduciary responsibility...

what happens to Mortgage brokers when bad brokers, sell things they shouldnt, or help client make up documents to get qualified?
What happens to the banks, or the executives?

well they get bonuses and pay raises...

The customers have BK, a divorce or many other bad things. But no one who got paid in his loan process has any accountability? Should that be legal?

Old School Boats is probably a very honest person, who hasnt learned the dark side of his industry yet. He is most likely performing as he was trained.

But thats not protecting the average consumer who trusts the “ Paid Professional”, who is focused on they next paycheck.

Watch the movie “ The Big Short” or read the book To big to fail.

The housing market has ups and downs, not just ups.
So does the stock market...

One industry can be sued for bad advice, the other cant..., why?
I do not want to see another housing crisis. Therefore, I will tell the other side of the story.
All that means nothing. You are attacking ONE members integrity, of whom you have NEVER had dealings with, over his opinion that is shared by many. You can argue corruption and poor motive in the upper management until you're blue in the face, none of that changes or is relative to how Joe is doing his work.

And all those regulations and fiduciary responsibility you refer to are for PAID clients. Anybody can give free advice, it's up to the person that is recieving that advice to make the decision if it's right for them.

So to question a person's morals and ethics without knowing their intentions, background, education, or goals is beyond ignorant and disrespectful.

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Xring01

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The accountability is with the person to read and understand what they are signing up for. It is is not the mortgage broker’s job to tell you if you can afford the payment or not. It is on you to make that decision.

So that totally explains the 2007 housing crisis....
Thanks for the clarity. I guess I am just to stupid to have seen it so clearly.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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A few days ago we had a great thread on rental propertys. If you look at that thread, I wished I could buy a rental in my area, but with 20% down I am still cash flow negative.. so I put that saved money in the stock market... does this sound familiar? It should. You where part of that thread.

I have a 30 year mortgage at 3 3/8 interest but I pay $400-$900/ mth over my payment. Should be paid off in 10 years.
Do my best to max out 401Ks, but thats difficult with 2 kids in college.
But I have one car payment, but its paid for with an auto allowance from my company..
No credit card debt. Lots of monthly bills, insurance’s, water, gas, electricity, internet, trash etc etc.
Cash investment accounts, that I take proceeds out to put into my 401K to mitigate the capital gains on those profits.

Ever heard of stupid tax... think its a Dave Ramsey quote..
Well I am 48 years old, spent alot of stupid tax $$$ over the years. Because I didnt have anyone around me that I could trust for advice. So I had to learn the hard way.

When financial threads come up, I do my best to help out the members, not make the stupid mistakes I have made.

That’s all fine and good. How does any of your stupid taxes apply to mortgage brokers and the industry as a whole being a shady profession? No one had a gun to the head to sign up for a mortgage, not even in 2006.
 

Carlson-jet

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Not sure where this went off the rails but I don't think we are helping Vic at this point?
 

Carlson-jet

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See Vic..
It's complicated.
There are no formulas for success other than maintaining a hard drive to succeed.
There will be pitfalls way beyond ones controls. Remember Family.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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So that totally explains the 2007 housing crisis....
Thanks for the clarity. I guess I am just to stupid to have seen it so clearly.

Mortgage brokers didn’t default on their houses. People that signed up for mortgages they could not afford and were living paycheck to paycheck did.

The mortgage regulations are not set by the mortgage brokers. They largely worked in the box they were given. Sure some loans were predatory and some people got taken advantage of, shit happens.

I worked at the mortgage company that brought the whole thing down... it was pretty easy to see that you are setting yourself up for failure when you offer people with bad credit a house with 0 down and let them pay only the interest.

It’s pretty easy to do the math and realize you can’t afford what you are signing up for. Personal responsibility and accountability is a thing.
 

Carlson-jet

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Mortgage brokers didn’t default on their houses. People that signed up for mortgages they could not afford and were living paycheck to paycheck did.

The mortgage regulations are not set by the mortgage brokers. They largely worked in the box they were given. Sure some loans were predatory and some people got taken advantage of.

I worked at the mortgage company that brought the whole thing down... it was pretty easy to see that you are setting yourself up for failure when you offer people with bad credit a house with 0 down and let them pay only the interest.

It’s pretty easy to do the math and realize you can’t afford what you are signing up for.
Let's not blame just the cattle for stepping up to the feeding trough. They were hungry. :p
 

Xring01

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Not sure where this went off the rails but I don't think we are helping Vic at this point?

It went off the rails, because I brought up the secrets to the Mortgage Industry.

I will summarize the mess...
Mortgage Broker has no accountability to the “customers” they sign up.
As the last 10-12 posts confirm... Its a buyers responsibility to read everything they sign.
Which means dont trust the guys selling you the Mortgage, because its up to you to read everything.


Online Mortgages will most likely change this industry in the next 10 years.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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It went off the rails, because I brought up the secrets to the Mortgage Industry.

I will summarize the mess...
Mortgage Broker has no accountability to the “customers” they sign up.
As the last 10-12 posts confirm... Its a buyers responsibility to read everything they sign.
Which means dont trust the guys selling you the Mortgage, because its up to you to read everything.


Online Mortgages will most likely change this industry in the next 10 years.


And none of that should be a surprise. It is called Trust but Verify.

When you bought the car you read the window sticker and didn’t take the salesman’s word that it had the heated seats and cruise control.

When you get take out for dinner you actually look in the bag to make sure you got the right order.

You clock in and out of work because the company needs to verify when you start and stop working, and does not take your word for it.

There are no “mortgage industry secrets”. They are there to make money, and there is a cost of money. In an hour of research online a lay person can figure out exactly what they are paying for in a mortgage and where the company or broker is making money off of them. If you don’t like the deal, don’t sign it.
 

Xring01

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And none of that should be a surprise. It is called Trust but Verify.

When you bought the car you read the window sticker and didn’t take the salesman’s word that it had the heated seats and cruise control.

When you get take out for dinner you actually look in the bag to make sure you got the right order.

You clock in and out of work because the company needs to verify when you start and stop working, and does not take your word for it.

There are no “mortgage industry secrets”. They are there to make money, and there is a cost of money. In an hour of research online a lay person can figure out exactly what they are paying for in a mortgage and where the company or broker is making money off of them. If you don’t like the deal, don’t sign it.

So Mortgage Brokers are just like Used Car Salesman?
Or new Car Salesman?

If either is the case, are Car Salesman considered “Professionals”

But I think we just agreed, thats its best not to trust them?

If we cant trust them, and have to verify everything, why are we paying them? Especially if one hour of research teaches the average consumer everything they need to know.

Kinda like Tesla story... No Dealers.... every one pays the same price for a new one...
Kinda mitagates the whole salesman purpose huh?


You go online.... buy the car its delivered to your house...

Go online, get mortgage, digital sign... no Mortgage Broker... no need to waste the money... they obviously add no value right.

If it only takes an hour of online research to be a expert... why do they make so much money????

Remember back in the day... Movie Night... on the way home stopped by Blockbuster, rented the latest movie. What happened to Blockbuster. Digital Age hit. Movies are now streamed, and no more Block Buster...

Thats the future of Mortgage Brokers in my opinion....

Its a Digital Age... learn to embrace Technology.

Majority of Business’s are based on goods or services, that add value. The moment you no longer competitively add value, that business typically dissappears. (See above Blockbuster)

What is the Mortgage Brokers add value? You stated its up to the consumer to read everything before they sign... so they are not like a lawyer... they have no accountability. Everything can be learned in one hour of research... Wheres the value, why do people pay them?

Back to Tesla...take a look at Fords recent stock earnings call... guess why they missed forecasted financial estimates... Now take a look at GM....
Wonder why Tesla stock jumped threw the roof...

Auto industry has been transformed by Technology. Wonder if you can see the parallel here. Whether you agree or disagree with Tesla as a company, its had a huge financial impact on the entire automotive market place. Do you think Technology and the digital age may have an impact other industry's?
 
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DRYHEAT

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Mortgage brokers didn’t default on their houses. People that signed up for mortgages they could not afford and were living paycheck to paycheck did.

The mortgage regulations are not set by the mortgage brokers. They largely worked in the box they were given. Sure some loans were predatory and some people got taken advantage of, shit happens.

I worked at the mortgage company that brought the whole thing down... it was pretty easy to see that you are setting yourself up for failure when you offer people with bad credit a house with 0 down and let them pay only the interest.

It’s pretty easy to do the math and realize you can’t afford what you are signing up for. Personal responsibility and accountability is a thing.
There’s plenty of blame to go around starting with government regulations that encouraged ridiculous loan practices, banks with rip off subprime programs, realtors brokers and whoever else in the chain trying to make a buck, including the people buying homes they couldn’t afford.

All of this because everyone knew that the government would bail out the banks.

“Too big to fail” :rolleyes: and as always the taxpayer is the biggest loser.
 

Carlson-jet

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There’s plenty of blame to go around starting with government regulations that encouraged ridiculous loan practices, banks with rip off subprime programs, realtors brokers and whoever else in the chain trying to make a buck, including the people buying homes they couldn’t afford.

All of this because everyone knew that the government would bail out the banks.

“Too big to fail” :rolleyes: and as always the taxpayer is the biggest loser.
Oh, No you didn't. LOL :p

Never understood the safety of allowing other people to own ones money by default with the guise of bigger profits . Shit happens.
 

78Southwind

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I’m kind of surprised to see so many against the 15 yr loan. Most I’ve talked to away from the board, say to do it now and never look back. The text messages are from my guy so you can see he’s all for it if I can swing it.

Vic, it's all about risk and reward. Nobody has a crystal ball to tell them exactly how their life will end up. Take calculated risks and reduce those risks where you can. Keeping the 30 year loan and just making the extra payments to reduce the loan years down to 20 years gives you the option to control some of the risk associated with a higher payment. However, to reduce that risk there is a cost and that is the premium between the loans. What risks are there, you name it. The risk of losing your job, getting injured or the US going through another severe recession in the future. If any of those happen will you still be able to make your payment? Do you have enough savings to get you through a tough time (maybe a year or so)? Do you or your wife have a 401(k), IRA or a Roth IRA that would allow you to take a penalty or penalty free distribution if needed?

If the 20 year loan fits your budget, you have enough money in savings to support your family through some tough times and all of your other bases are covered (retirement, disability & life insurance) I would say go for the 20 year loan. You will same money on interest and payments by going to a 20 year loan with a lower interest rate compared to 28 more years with a higher interest rate and extra payments.

The best thing I can recommend to you is if any of this is Greek to you, you should take a Personal Financial Planning class at a Community College. Though basic these classes can be a big help.

BTW, to me it doesn't appear that the math is right in his texts. I could be wrong but without knowing the numbers it's just a guess.
 
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RiverDave

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Absolutely correct.

So if you owe at the beginning 500k. vs. 10k at the end, and the payment never changes, over the life of the loan...

And the percentage is Always 6 percent...

6 percent of 500k is a shit ton more than it is on 10k!

Make sense?

Looks to me like you and Steve are saying the same thing?
 

2FORCEFULL

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I’m kind of surprised to see so many against the 15 yr loan. Most I’ve talked to away from the board, say to do it now and never look back. The text messages are from my guy so you can see he’s all for it if I can swing it.
that's because most have a false sense of wealth....and most everybody lives beyond their means.. they don't live at the level they can afford,... they finance the wealth level... that way they can brag and look down on others.. when the last crunch hit, you could tell the folks that where in there homes right... they never moved....people treat loans like shoes,... when they don't fit they walk away and leave them behind..the people that pay their loans pay for those that don't.... I'm a private lender,.. I base interest on risk..but… I make sure I believe they can pay..but what happens is this...once they secure a loan with me, they always start try'n to finance some thing else...a new car always seems to come right after the new house...
 

2FORCEFULL

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Simple way to put it.
First payment $50 went to principle.
Now 10 years later $50 goes towards interest.
The numbers completely flipped.
lol.... the only way loans are load up front is points... loan origination fees..it's pretty simple..... but some will never get it... and I get that...
 

2FORCEFULL

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LOL.... here's what it looks like living on debt free street..

Mackay-Tisbert-on-homeless-policy-LEAD.jpg


I try to not pay interest,.... but, there's only one way to be debt free...
 

LargeOrangeFont

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So Mortgage Brokers are just like Used Car Salesman?
Or new Car Salesman?

If either is the case, are Car Salesman considered “Professionals”

But I think we just agreed, thats its best not to trust them?

If we cant trust them, and have to verify everything, why are we paying them? Especially if one hour of research teaches the average consumer everything they need to know.

Kinda like Tesla story... No Dealers.... every one pays the same price for a new one...
Kinda mitagates the whole salesman purpose huh?


You go online.... buy the car its delivered to your house...

Go online, get mortgage, digital sign... no Mortgage Broker... no need to waste the money... they obviously add no value right.

If it only takes an hour of online research to be a expert... why do they make so much money????

Remember back in the day... Movie Night... on the way home stopped by Blockbuster, rented the latest movie. What happened to Blockbuster. Digital Age hit. Movies are now streamed, and no more Block Buster...

Thats the future of Mortgage Brokers in my opinion....

Its a Digital Age... learn to embrace Technology.

Majority of Business’s are based on goods or services, that add value. The moment you no longer competitively add value, that business typically dissappears. (See above Blockbuster)

What is the Mortgage Brokers add value? You stated its up to the consumer to read everything before they sign... so they are not like a lawyer... they have no accountability. Everything can be learned in one hour of research... Wheres the value, why do people pay them?

Back to Tesla...take a look at Fords recent stock earnings call... guess why they missed forecasted financial estimates... Now take a look at GM....
Wonder why Tesla stock jumped threw the roof...

Auto industry has been transformed by Technology. Wonder if you can see the parallel here. Whether you agree or disagree with Tesla as a company, its had a huge financial impact on the entire automotive market place. Do you think Technology and the digital age may have an impact other industry's?

I don’t know what any of that has to do with someone getting a mortgage today, and it being an evil profession. If a computer gives you a mortgage it’s no longer evil?

You are being a bit obtuse. Brokers of anything are paid because they save people time and can navigate things and problems the lay person does not know about or want to deal with. I said you can figure out what you are paying for in an hour, not become a mortgage broker in an hour.

When you get a mortgage you are given an explanation of fees and terms.. you can take that and understand what you are paying and agree or disagree.

Nothing I said changes in the digital model... Your car gets delivered from an online order, you still verify it is the right spec. You still get a mortgage from a website and verify the APR and payments and other terms.

Tesla stock jumped because a new factory in China came fully online. Their sales were actually down in the US. This is not a thread about digital transformation it is about a guy asking if he should refi his house in the current economic climate.
 

steak&lobster

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Jesus! I haven't met Joe but every single person who has met him and worked with him have had nothing but the highest of praise for him.

To call out a guys moral character because you dont believe in his profession is bullshit, narrowminded, and extremely naive. You've said quiet a few things that really show you are an extremely bitter and angry person.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
I've met and hung out with Joe, he's a dick . . . nah he
Not sure where this went off the rails but I don't think we are helping Vic at this point?
Who's Vic ???
 

BHC Vic

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Yep. Wait until his boys start playing travel baseball or something like that. Shit. I was $10K + a year when my daughter did cheer.

Even now, I would rather just pay my cheap 30 year and enjoy life, then try to pay a house of faster. Everyday is not guaranteed so live it to the fullest.

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I’ve told them no, but grandma and grandpa want to pay for everything sports related. My parents really want to help my brother and I be set for the future. Paid off houses is a good start. But again I appreciate everyone’s input I’m seeing things from lots of different angles now which is exactly what I wanted
 

BHC Vic

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No mortgage broker I’ve ever dealt with has doubled as an investment broker or provided financial planning advice. A mortgage broker and the underwriter’s will determine if you can pay the bill. Unless it’s a friend or family member that is your mortgage broker, they won’t care if you have to eat top ramen for the next 10 years. It’s up to you to determine whether the payment is truly good for budget and financial goals.

Honestly, I’d suggest finding a financial planner. Or, at minimum, start reading books on personal finance. Everyone here has their own financial situation, and goals. I think what you need are a few more tools to be able to independently (or via a financial advisor) determine whether certain financial moves are good or not. You have your head in the right place, and doing well.

I like the flexibility of a 30 year fixed, Pay a little extra principal, and deploy my excess funds into investments earning a lot more than today’s mortgage rates. But, being debt free does feel really good too.

he’s the cousin of a very close family friend. Weve used him 5 or 6 times now for purchases or refi’s. He had thanksgiving dinner w us so I would consider him a friend. He bent over backwards for us on the last refi. Even paid out of pocket when we hit a little snafoo
 

BHC Vic

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Flying Lavey

I am quoting OSB
“Obviously you or someone close to you got burned in the 2008 crash. Sorry that happened to you or them, but that is not my fault. People in high places and at a much higher pay grade than I, decided to create these subprime mortgage pools. Banks created a product, gave it to sales people to sell and ultimately borrowers signed the docs.“

Please explain where the accountabilty is in this business sector, explained above? When assumptions are wrong?
Higher Place People?
Banks?
Sales People?
Or the borrower who paid a professional for there advice?

Thats the problem, no accountability, just blame others.

A financial advisor, has a fiduciaries responsibility to there clients. Get sued when they violate that fiduciary responsibility...

what happens to Mortgage brokers when bad brokers, sell things they shouldnt, or help client make up documents to get qualified?
What happens to the banks, or the executives?

well they get bonuses and pay raises...

The customers have BK, a divorce or many other bad things. But no one who got paid in his loan process has any accountability? Should that be legal?

Old School Boats is probably a very honest person, who hasnt learned the dark side of his industry yet. He is most likely performing as he was trained.

But thats not protecting the average consumer who trusts the “ Paid Professional”, who is focused on they next paycheck.

Watch the movie “ The Big Short” or read the book To big to fail.

The housing market has ups and downs, not just ups.
So does the stock market...

One industry can be sued for bad advice, the other cant..., why?
I do not want to see another housing crisis. Therefore, I will tell the other side of the story.


The big short is great!! I posted about it here and caught nothing but shit from everyone lol I’m sure I could find the thread
 

BHC Vic

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This thread went sideways.
The personal attack on @OldSchoolBoats was uncalled for!
And @Xring01 - you come across as an a$$ who got burned and can’t get over it, while providing zero help to @BHC Vic who asked a question and got multiple different answers
I disagree. I don’t care about his back and forth with joe. I found his posts very very informative.
 

BHC Vic

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And none of that should be a surprise. It is called Trust but Verify.

When you bought the car you read the window sticker and didn’t take the salesman’s word that it had the heated seats and cruise control.

When you get take out for dinner you actually look in the bag to make sure you got the right order.

You clock in and out of work because the company needs to verify when you start and stop working, and does not take your word for it.

There are no “mortgage industry secrets”. They are there to make money, and there is a cost of money. In an hour of research online a lay person can figure out exactly what they are paying for in a mortgage and where the company or broker is making money off of them. If you don’t like the deal, don’t sign it.
I do none of that :p:D
 

Xring01

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This thread went sideways.
The personal attack on @OldSchoolBoats was uncalled for!
And @Xring01 - you come across as an a$$ who got burned and can’t get over it, while providing zero help to @BHC Vic who asked a question and got multiple different answers

Damn, I am starting to like you alot more BHC..

I am being an asshole, and I am doing it for a key reason.

Most industrys have severe penaltys for Ethics violations, but Mortgage industry still doesnt, after the huge mess they helped create leading up to a massive finacial crisis.

I am a simple guy... but Ethics is very high on my list.

If that makes me an asshole... ohhh well... I will be an asshole with a huge smile on my face..

An educated consumer, will make better decisions than an un educated consumer..
, several have already admitted they had no idea of how it worked. They learned from my comments. Which will most likely save them money...

Which is the goal of this thread isnt it... Or to make better financial decisions.

I have achieved those goals. I truly dont give a shit if a few people on the internet think I am an asshole.

I already know that...I readily admit it.
 

DC-88

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he’s the cousin of a very close family friend. Weve used him 5 or 6 times now for purchases or refi’s. He had thanksgiving dinner w us so I would consider him a friend. He bent over backwards for us on the last refi. Even paid out of pocket when we hit a little snafoo
I actually got a couple of the best loans with the cheapest fees through brokers that I knew in the early 2000's as well. Hard money and traditional construction loans are what I always recommend avoiding if possible.
Funny story, when I was 33 in 03' my employee's uncle was a shady mortgage broker who got me a smoking deal on a "cash out" first mortgage so I could tear down my primary residence and rebuild. I never thought to mention what the cash was for, and I was still a little green with this finance stuff and just going for it. We had done a 1031 into another property that was waiting to be sold, so I needed enough loan for the construction work until the other property could be sold with only capital gains and I could pay my house off or be left with a small balance on this 30 year cash out mortgage. Got the old house appraised, got the money in the bank, tore it down. He came by at some point a couple weeks later to give me a gift card or something and about shit his pants...
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Damn, I am starting to like you alot more BHC..

I am being an asshole, and I am doing it for a key reason.

Most industrys have severe penaltys for Ethics violations, but Mortgage industry still doesnt, after the huge mess they helped create leading up to a massive finacial crisis.

I am a simple guy... but Ethics is very high on my list.

If that makes me an asshole... ohhh well... I will be an asshole with a huge smile on my face..

An educated consumer, will make better decisions than an un educated consumer..
, several have already admitted they had no idea of how it worked. They learned from my comments. Which will most likely save them money...

Which is the goal of this thread isnt it... Or to make better financial decisions.

I have achieved those goals. I truly dont give a shit if a few people on the internet think I am an asshole.

I already know that...I readily admit it.

So that makes all mortgage brokers dishonest snakes because you think there are no regulations in it.. got it. :)
 

Singleton

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Damn, I am starting to like you alot more BHC..

I am being an asshole, and I am doing it for a key reason.

Most industrys have severe penaltys for Ethics violations, but Mortgage industry still doesnt, after the huge mess they helped create leading up to a massive finacial crisis.

I am a simple guy... but Ethics is very high on my list.

If that makes me an asshole... ohhh well... I will be an asshole with a huge smile on my face..

An educated consumer, will make better decisions than an un educated consumer..

Before this thread, several have already admitted they had no idea of how it worked. They learned from my comments. Which will most likely safe them money...

Which is the goal of this thread isnt it... Or to make better financial decisions.

I have achieved those goals. I truly dont give a shit if a few people on the internet think I am an asshole.

I already know that...I readily admit it.

The way you share your point of view and called out another member for just being in the mortgage industry is not an ethical way to do things.

You questioned Joe’s ethics without even doing business with him! If ethics are high on your list, you sure did not follow that.
 

BHC Vic

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Damn, I am starting to like you alot more BHC..

I am being an asshole, and I am doing it for a key reason.

Most industrys have severe penaltys for Ethics violations, but Mortgage industry still doesnt, after the huge mess they helped create leading up to a massive finacial crisis.

I am a simple guy... but Ethics is very high on my list.

If that makes me an asshole... ohhh well... I will be an asshole with a huge smile on my face..

An educated consumer, will make better decisions than an un educated consumer..
, several have already admitted they had no idea of how it worked. They learned from my comments. Which will most likely save them money...

Which is the goal of this thread isnt it... Or to make better financial decisions.

I have achieved those goals. I truly dont give a shit if a few people on the internet think I am an asshole.

I already know that...I readily admit it.
It was the exact point of this thread. As I had said in post one, I already had basically decided what I wanted to do and what numbers would work. Keeping in mind I don’t want to work as much as years prior. Of course people assume what I can afford and can’t, and what I save and don’t, and that’s fine I expected that. There’s was a lot of great info in this thread. I would love to Refi, pull mine out, same payment, and buy one of those new places in bhc. But that seems like a lot more risk than me paying my house off early and having 3k+ a month EXTRA in 15 - 20 years. Then I can really start doing some damage. That cushy double pension would be awesome! 8k a month and zero debt... that’s the ultimate dream.
 

BHC Vic

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Plus 401k IRA and my wife’s 401k. And yes they are “maxed” my company doesn’t match my wife’s does
 

Spudsbud

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You can borrowmoney to buy a house. pay for college. pay for whateverinlife.
You cannot borrow money to retire.
401k 1st.
mortgage 2nd
college & everything ellse after that.
Im 60. Retired 3 yrs now comfortably.
2 kids thru college. done.
 

Xring01

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My backstory to why I feel they way I do about the Mortgage industry.
Around 2004 ish, I met a great guy, driving a new GMC 2500 Deisel 4x4, blinged out, had the boat, houses in Simi, Big Bear, Temecula, Murrieta, 4 Gas Stations, Mortgage company in Simi and one in Temecula, Toy hauler loaded with the newest toys. Took 3 weeks vacation at Spring Break, pretty much vacationed all summer. If the kids where out of school he didnt work...

This guy tried to hire me over and over and over. Wanted me bad, promised me the world. Gave me all the great advice you could ever imagine. Only idiots have equity in there house, put that money to work. Lets refi it, get you a rental or three.

Nope I never fell for it. Still went to the desert with him and his family and alot of great times.

He spilt the beans on how it all worked.
Stated Income Loans, how to create fake financial documents, anything to get the loan, or more importantly commission... all to buy another toy, or rental house. Ethics, wtf is are those? His answer, if you dont do it, some one else will... hummm sorry, I still didnt fall for it. Ohhh if you can get your customer from a 30 year fixed to Heloc or ARM your commission doubles.... with a bonus.... He told me everything on many drunken nights.

Well by 2009, he had nothing... Lost well over $4Million in assets. Everything gone. Renting a house near by. The best part, wanted me to hire him... lol.....

What about the people who trusted there mortgage broker... what happened to there lives. Well, I knew many of them, because they where all in the same circle.
Divorces, Suicides by Dads, Suicides by the kids, Lost jobs, absolutely destroyed alot of peoples lives.
Living in Murrieta Ca since 1997.... watched it all unfold.
Hell when the shit hit the fan, I bought a $40k chopper for $10K, road the shit out of it for a year, and sold it for $18K.

Lots of people here can call me an asshole, which I am...
But how many have defended the Ethics of Mortgage Companys... NONE... why is that...???

I already admitted that I was offered big jobs, with big salarys, promised all the bling to go with it in 2004. But I didnt do it. Why?????? ETHICs....

I refuse to take advantage of people.

If that makes me an asshole... Then I feel sorry for the people who feel that way.

Being in Texas, taught me alot, being in the Military solidified many of those beliefs.

Honor, Ethics, are a few things worth dieing over in my opinion..

Thats just the asshole I chose to be.

In closing:
How many familiys lifes where absolutely screwed over, by the un ethical mortgage industry. None of you blame the “Salesman” who profitted from peddling products, they new where bad... If you doubt I that, see the above comments. They new... they where taught how to get around legislative aspects. They lied, cheated, and destroyed many lives, with absolutely no true ramifications. Screwed up this country, and many others. To the point of a true global recession. But no ramifications, or any changes to the Ethics of how they operate.

Why in the hell would anyone chose to work in an industry that has proven time and time again to operate outside the Ethical boundary..

Dont waste you time calling me names... That fuels me actually..

Argue the facts.

Show me the ramifications of bad loans.
How many Mortgage Brokers have ever gone to prison? Jail? Or got Sued?
If there is no punishment for screwing over the consumer... then lets keep doing it...

PROFIT ALL THE WAY UNTIL WE DESTROY ANOTHER FAMILY...
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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My backstory to why I feel they way I do about the Mortgage industry.
Around 2004 ish, I met a great guy, driving a new GMC 2500 Deisel 4x4, blinged out, had the boat, houses in Simi, Big Bear, Temecula, Murrieta, 4 Gas Stations, Mortgage company in Simi and one in Temecula, Toy hauler loaded with the newest toys. Took 3 weeks vacation at Spring Break, pretty much vacationed all summer. If the kids where out of school he didnt work...

This guy tried to hire me over and over and over. Wanted me bad, promised me the world. Gave me all the great advice you could ever imagine. Only idiots have equity in there house, but that money to work. Lets refi it, get you a rental or three.

Nope I never fell for it. Still went to the desert with him and his family and alot of great times.

He spilt the beans on how it all worked.
Stated Income Loans, how to create fake financial documents, anything to get the load, or more importantly commission... all to buy another toy, or rental house. Ethics, wtf is are those? His answer, if you dont do it, some one else will... hummm sorry, I still didnt fall for it. Ohhh if you can get your customer from a 30 year fixed to Heloc or ARM your commission doubles.... with a bonus.... He told me everything on many drunken nights.

Well by 2009, he had nothing... Lost well over $4Million in assets. Everything gone. Renting a house near by.

What about the people who trusted there mortgage broker... what happened to there lives. Well, I knew many of them, because they where all in the same circle.
Divorces, Suicides by Dads, Suicides by the kids, Lost jobs, absolutely destroyed alot of peoples lives.
Living in Murrieta Ca since 1997.... watched it all unfold.
Hell when the shit hit the fan, I bought a $40k chopper for $10K, road the shit out of it for a year, and sold it for $18K.

Lots of people here can call me an asshole, which I am...
But how many have defended the Ethics of Mortgage Companys... NONE... why is that...???

I already admitted that I was offered big jobs, with big salarys, promised all the bling to go with it in 2004. But I didnt do it. Why?????? ETHICs....

I refuse to take advantage of people.

If that makes me an asshole... Then I feel sorry for the people who feel that way.

Being in Texas, taught me alot, being in the Military solidified many of those beliefs.

Honor, Ethics, are a few things worth dieing over in my opinion..

Thats just the asshole I chose to be.

In closing:
How many familiys lifes where absolutely screwed over, by the un ethical mortgage industy. None of you blame the “Salesman” who profitted from peddling products, they new where bad... If you doubt I that, see the above comments. They new... they where taught how to get around legislative aspects. They lied, cheated, and destroyed many lives, with absolutly no true ramifications. Screwed up this country, and many others. To the point of a true global recession. But no ramifications, or any changes to the Ethics of how they operate.

Why in the hell would anyone chose to work in an industry that has proven time and time again to operate outside the Ethical boundary..

Dont waste you time calling me names... That fuels me actually..

Argue the facts.

Show me the ramifications of bad loans.
How many Mortgage Brokers have ever gone to prision? Jail? Or got Sued?
If there is no punishment for screwing over the consumer... then lets keep doing it...

PROFIT ALL THE WAY UNTIL WE DESTROY ANOTHER FAMILY...


What you say above is just like the college admissions fiasco. Those parents knew EXACTLY what they were doing. So did most of the people that took a house for 0 down on interest only.

People that falsified docs and/or did not know their own financial situation, or didn't care took those loans. When you have bad credit, and put 0 down on something you have literally nothing to lose, so who cares if you default.

It is not the responsibility of a mortgage broker to be your financial adviser.

No one put a gun to anyone's head and said you MUST take this mortgage. Poor planning, poor savings and some bad luck are what screwed people over.. not the mortgage industry. The mortgage industry was the enabler, yes, and many people god wide eyed and didn't care about the consequences.

Lets not talk about all the people that walked away with HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars after refinancing the house they put down 0 on and pulling all the money out of it in a subsequent refi, then just claimed BK.

Ethics go both ways, and calling out Joe as you did with no experience or dealings with him shows you pretty much have no ethics, so your entire premise is laughable.

All of your experience has NOTHING to do with Joe.

Look at how many predatory boats were sold in the early 2000s. Those devious boat builders should not have been selling boats to people that falsified docs and could not afford their houses. It is their fault that so may boats were repo-ed, and family's were torn apart and deprived of time on the water.
 
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2FORCEFULL

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My backstory to why I feel they way I do about the Mortgage industry.
Around 2004 ish, I met a great guy, driving a new GMC 2500 Deisel 4x4, blinged out, had the boat, houses in Simi, Big Bear, Temecula, Murrieta, 4 Gas Stations, Mortgage company in Simi and one in Temecula, Toy hauler loaded with the newest toys. Took 3 weeks vacation at Spring Break, pretty much vacationed all summer. If the kids where out of school he didnt work...

This guy tried to hire me over and over and over. Wanted me bad, promised me the world. Gave me all the great advice you could ever imagine. Only idiots have equity in there house, but that money to work. Lets refi it, get you a rental or three.

Nope I never fell for it. Still went to the desert with him and his family and alot of great times.

He spilt the beans on how it all worked.
Stated Income Loans, how to create fake financial documents, anything to get the load, or more importantly commission... all to buy another toy, or rental house. Ethics, wtf is are those? His answer, if you dont do it, some one else will... hummm sorry, I still didnt fall for it. Ohhh if you can get your customer from a 30 year fixed to Heloc or ARM your commission doubles.... with a bonus.... He told me everything on many drunken nights.

Well by 2009, he had nothing... Lost well over $4Million in assets. Everything gone. Renting a house near by.

What about the people who trusted there mortgage broker... what happened to there lives. Well, I knew many of them, because they where all in the same circle.
Divorces, Suicides by Dads, Suicides by the kids, Lost jobs, absolutely destroyed alot of peoples lives.
Living in Murrieta Ca since 1997.... watched it all unfold.
Hell when the shit hit the fan, I bought a $40k chopper for $10K, road the shit out of it for a year, and sold it for $18K.

Lots of people here can call me an asshole, which I am...
But how many have defended the Ethics of Mortgage Companys... NONE... why is that...???

I already admitted that I was offered big jobs, with big salarys, promised all the bling to go with it in 2004. But I didnt do it. Why?????? ETHICs....

I refuse to take advantage of people.

If that makes me an asshole... Then I feel sorry for the people who feel that way.

Being in Texas, taught me alot, being in the Military solidified many of those beliefs.

Honor, Ethics, are a few things worth dieing over in my opinion..

Thats just the asshole I chose to be.

In closing:
How many familiys lifes where absolutely screwed over, by the un ethical mortgage industy. None of you blame the “Salesman” who profitted from peddling products, they new where bad... If you doubt I that, see the above comments. They new... they where taught how to get around legislative aspects. They lied, cheated, and destroyed many lives, with absolutly no true ramifications. Screwed up this country, and many others. To the point of a true global recession. But no ramifications, or any changes to the Ethics of how they operate.

Why in the hell would anyone chose to work in an industry that has proven time and time again to operate outside the Ethical boundary..

Dont waste you time calling me names... That fuels me actually..

Argue the facts.

Show me the ramifications of bad loans.
How many Mortgage Brokers have ever gone to prision? Jail? Or got Sued?
If there is no punishment for screwing over the consumer... then lets keep doing it...

PROFIT ALL THE WAY UNTIL WE DESTROY ANOTHER FAMILY...
not to argue with you, and i'm surprised that there hasn't been a real mortgage broker chime in,... but again... this is a public forum and I feel you must be corrected on your false statements...

what you need to do is read the revised 2018 dodd-frank law.... once you learn about current mortgage laws and rules...com back and post' what you learned...
 

Xring01

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Whats laughable Orange,
You readily admit the Mortgage Industry has no Ethics,
But you defend it over and over. You have not debated their Ethics once...

A paid professional, should have a Ethical boundary to there customers. Very simple to figure out. Most industrys have those standards.

This industry rewards the “Salesman” (wont call them a pro), pushing substandard products to make more commissions. Under the guise of being a pro, and having the consumers best interest at heart.

You admit Mortgage Industry has no Ethics right?
Mortgage Brokers chose to work in an Un Ethical Industry.. no one puts a gun to there head... do they???
They chose the job... didnt they...
So they made that choice right... tell me where I am wrong?

The best thing is... Mortgage Brokers will not be around for much longer. The digital age is already having huge impact on them. Like Blockbuster... they will dissappear...
 

Xring01

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not to argue with you, and i'm surprised that there hasn't been a real mortgage broker chime in,... but again... this is a public forum and I feel you must be corrected on your false statements...

what you need to do is read the revised 2018 dodd-frank law.... once you learn about current mortgage laws and rules...com back and post' what you learned...
They are already getting around Dodd Frank...
And there are several congressman trying to eliminate it.
 

2FORCEFULL

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dodd frank from 2010 was revised in 2018... and yes, I hate it as does most republicans...there are so many rules and regs. that teams of lawyers couldn't make heads or tails...
 

2FORCEFULL

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They are already getting around Dodd Frank...
And there are several congressman trying to eliminate it.
there you go,... now that is correct... trump did a roll back, and the republicans want it gone.... put guys like me out of business...

but, as is current law.... you give out a loan you better be damn sure that you did the homework to make sure that they can repay at the point of signing or your gonna eat the loan....
 
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