WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

18'10" Lavey MOD VP project

lbhsbz

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Wasn't supposed to be a project, but it's turning in to one. Picked it up sight unseen...had a few pictures and it looked good...well, at least much better than the old shitbox Bahner.

Had an XR-4 merc on it, brand new standard lower, prop buried in the water, no jack plate.

I'm putting my 200hp w/ a CLE lower on it...but with the jack plate, WAY to much setback. Also didn't realize how high this goddam thing is gonna have to be to get the propshaft even with the keel...even with the jackplate, so I'll have to remake the bracket.

There is no bracing transom bracing inside the boat, so unless I want to push the transom off the tops of the tunnels like I did on the bahner, that will have to be addressed...I'm going with the War Canoe method of aluminum and way to many stainless bolts, mostly because I suck at fiberglass work and I hate fiberglass work.

The battery tray and the old oil reservoir cage are bolted THROUGH the goddam tops of the tunnels, which really pissed me off. I talked to Chris at Lavey today about how these were laid up, and he's pretty sure there's 1/4" plywood on tops of the tunnels. It doesn't sound delaminated when I tap on it, but I'm sure I won't be that lucky.

Also, the front seats are wood screwed down into a piece of 3/4" plywood glassed on top of the tunnels...and the 5 or so threads that were engaged are no longer. I think that's a shitty way to do it, so I'll be addressing that too...somehow.

The 200hp is on a single ram midsection, so I'll need to fab up a bracket for the pump inside the boat.

I might even get some of this new shit powdercoated. Nice boats are new to me.

Galvanized lag bolts were good for the bahner, this one's getting done up right.

Pictures to follow.
 

lbhsbz

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Trim pump bracket test fit

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HST4ME

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Motors clean, keep 'er waxed up out there!
 

lbhsbz

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Additionally, I’ve discovered that a 1/2” bolt has a head that’s perfect for jumping starter and trim solenoids...throw one in your boat next to your spare drain plug
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lbhsbz

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Motors clean, keep 'er waxed up out there!
That motor is getting sold I think...I have more nice cowls...just need to find the plastic latch thing for the front, had to give mine to another guy that bought my fishing boat project

What should I ask for the XR-4? 136-140psi across the board, I don’t think the heads have ever been off. Bone stock
 

Flying_Lavey

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Wasn't supposed to be a project, but it's turning in to one. Picked it up sight unseen...had a few pictures and it looked good...well, at least much better than the old shitbox Bahner.

Had an XR-4 merc on it, brand new standard lower, prop buried in the water, no jack plate.

I'm putting my 200hp w/ a CLE lower on it...but with the jack plate, WAY to much setback. Also didn't realize how high this goddam thing is gonna have to be to get the propshaft even with the keel...even with the jackplate, so I'll have to remake the bracket.

There is no bracing transom bracing inside the boat, so unless I want to push the transom off the tops of the tunnels like I did on the bahner, that will have to be addressed...I'm going with the War Canoe method of aluminum and way to many stainless bolts, mostly because I suck at fiberglass work and I hate fiberglass work.

The battery tray and the old oil reservoir cage are bolted THROUGH the goddam tops of the tunnels, which really pissed me off. I talked to Chris at Lavey today about how these were laid up, and he's pretty sure there's 1/4" plywood on tops of the tunnels. It doesn't sound delaminated when I tap on it, but I'm sure I won't be that lucky.

Also, the front seats are wood screwed down into a piece of 3/4" plywood glassed on top of the tunnels...and the 5 or so threads that were engaged are no longer. I think that's a shitty way to do it, so I'll be addressing that too...somehow.

The 200hp is on a single ram midsection, so I'll need to fab up a bracket for the pump inside the boat.

I might even get some of this new shit powdercoated. Nice boats are new to me.

Galvanized lag bolts were good for the bahner, this one's getting done up right.

Pictures to follow.
I checked out my uncle's Seabring and the seats appear to be mounted the same way. I think his holes have stripped out a couple times as well but he just screws them in next to that hole (it's like pulling teeth to get him to do things correctly).

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lbhsbz

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I checked out my uncle's Seabring and the seats appear to be mounted the same way. I think his holes have stripped out a couple times as well but he just screws them in next to that hole (it's like pulling teeth to get him to do things correctly).

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Thanks.

I think I'm going to make brackets that bolt through the sides of the tunnels....I don't think there is any core material there. I spoke with Chris at Lavey last week...he thinks there is 1/4" plywood on the tops of the tunnels...where the oil res. cage and battery box are through bolted. I took a closer look at the bottom, and while the bunks are covering at least half the screws, only one screw head was visible...the rest have been filled over to seal them....the filler fell out on at least one of them. I knocked that screw out and while the wood or whatever is in there for a core is a bit soft...it's still takes a bit of effort to bury a pick, so it's not completely rotted or gone. I'll let it dry for a few days, maybe put some penetrating epoxy, and fill the holes with kitty hair. I'll jack the boat off the trailer to see if other filled areas are exposed tomorrow.

Seats in small tunnels like this are always too high...I think if i can drop it even 3/4" from its current position...it will be an improvement.

I yanked the engine back off yesterday because with the jackplate, too much setback. I hope to get the new bracket made tomorrow and the transom braces by the end of the weekend, then motor back on.

I got a referral to a guy to make a new windshield...this one has a few cracks. Quote was $800. Sorry, but fuck that. I'll make one out of aluminum and get it anodized black with UV resistance...that way I won't be able to break it climbing on the deck the tie the boat off when I anchor...I can't see a plexy windshield living long here.
 

lbhsbz

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Dug around in the bolt holes a bit after pulling the old bracket...wet soft wood. Looks like it’s going to get a new transom...shit.
 
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War Canoe

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That is a big project to replace properly...We did it on a 22” Talon. Came out great, but it was a labor intensive job. Decision time...
 

lenmann

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Damn, hate to see that.

Time to get over this: "I suck at fiberglass work and I hate fiberglass work"
 

lbhsbz

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That is a big project to replace properly...We did it on a 22” Talon. Came out great, but it was a labor intensive job. Decision time...
I'm not doing it myself...maybe a bit more of the teardown, but I don't trust my fiberglass skills enough for a transom. I talked to handful of shops this morning...some prices were just about stupid. Then I called Lavey...I was shocked at how reasonable the "ballpark" price was, so it's likely getting dropped off there tomorrow or wed. I figure they can do as good a job as anyone...
 

lbhsbz

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Coosa board is your friend
I've been reading about that stuff...we'll see what the guys as Lavey want to do. The rotted part is something that appears to have been added later. After I dug all that shit out, there's 1/4" of glass behind it with more wood. I cut out a small inspection window next to one of the holes and it's bonded and solid still...although I'm not sure that's the case everywhere. Wood will be fine for another 20 years....and this boat will probably be long gone by then....maybe.
 

lbhsbz

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Did some more demo last night...now I'm at a crossroads. The idea was originally to replace the whole transom...assuming I'd find more rot in the original transom once I cut some glass back. The rot appears to be concentrated to a few areas, while the rest of it seems solid. This presents a problem because since it's so solid, it'll be a bitch to get it to come of the fiberglass in a clean manner I think.

I had a buddy swing by this morning who knows more than me (maybe) about this stuff and has time to help if I choose to take it on myself...who proposed cutting back the glass a bit more, digging out as much of the rot as possible, treating with that penetrating epoxy stuff that kills rot and makes it solid...then cutting a couple filler pieces to replace the big rotted out areas, fill the rest, then go over the center area with another piece of 1" ply or core material. The replacement piece will go to about 8" past where the bracket bolts too on both sides, and the new knees will be right next to the bracket bolts...tied in with glass and angle aluminum...so the replacement section will be plenty big to catch all the load between the knees.

Thoughts?

I think this may turn into a can of worms if we try to tear the whole thing out...because it'll probably try and take some of the back of the boat with it...and I'm not sure we want that to happen.

There's still a piece of the previously added on ply attached on top...it's bonded good and being a bit stubborn....I ran out of saw blades last night so I'll get that off tonight. Worst spot is the lower hole on the starboard side...a couple more dark areas but they appear fairly screwdriver resistant

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lbhsbz

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Current situation...got an hour or so in after work

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lbhsbz

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I decided to tear it all out. I'd rather just take it to Lavey...honestly...it was too cheap. They have better things to do than deal my 30 year old junk...at least for the shitty part of the job. Once it's all torn down and cleaned up, I may or may not take it there and have them do the re-assembly.

Tonight’s progress....

Decided to try and run the router back and forth over whatever I could and pop the wood out with a screwdriver down to about the last layer of ply...worked better than expected, but not as good as I’d hoped...which is standard around here.

Anyway, tonight I filled up a 2 gallon shop vac full of dust, and here’s tonight's pile.

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I’d say it’s about 30% cleaned up

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Best part is...I haven't fucked up the gel yet by prying too hard on anything. For that, I feel somewhat successful.
 
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HydroSkreamin

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I know how you feel. My transom in my Eliminator was really rotten in the middle but OK on the outsides. I used the Skilsaw where I could, set to depth and cut it into manageable blocks, then took an oscillating tool with the flat blade and it cuts like butter right up until it gets dull. If you look at my thread in Restorations and Upgrades you can see what I'm talking about. The blades even have depth gauges on them so you don't go too deep. I bought name brand blades and they lasted decent. The cheapos flaked out like you would expect.

The other tool that was invaluable for prepping for the new transom was the 4" grinder with a 16 grit Zek wheel. They are badass and not that expensive. Check it out!

Good luck on your project. If you check out my avatar, you can see why I can dig your colors:D
 

lbhsbz

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I was hoping to be able to find a large quantity of termites for sale...dump ‘em in and seal it off, then come back in a week and have all the wood gone, but evidently they’re not available, unless I look in my attic.
 

lbhsbz

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I’m ready to dig my eyes out with a dull spork...

Getting closer...almost done.

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HST4ME

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That's the shitty part. Putting it back together is cake.
 

lbhsbz

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That's the shitty part. Putting it back together is cake.
Worked on it tonight...last night was windy and chilly....I have about 12 square inches left of wood in the starboard sponson that's kicking my ass....I'll get it tomorrow.

My glass guy doesn't seem to communicate very well...so I might tell him to fuckoff and go at it myself. I'm the kind of guy that tends to think up every possible problem that could arise, and develop solutions.

Problem 1...the existing glass isn't perfectly flat. The first piece of core will be bonded using thickened epoxy....but I figure any air that gets trapped towards the center will have a hell of a time working it's way out the edge. I had the thought to drill holes in the first piece of core on 4" centers...maybe even shallow saw cuts across the backside to connect all my vent holes so I can get all the excess out with no air pockets between the core and the existing glass...thoughts on this?

Clamping arrangement is figured out
 

HST4ME

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Grind the surface so it's relatively uniform, use the motor mount holes, drain plug holes and tunnel plate holes with 2x4s to clamp with.

On boats that were a mess I've floated a couple layers of cloth with thickend resin on the first layer of coosa or wood and clamped it in the boat fist. Then bonded the last two together.

The nice thing about coosa is the final surface other than tabbing it to the hull around the perimeter needs no finish glass over the surface.
 

lbhsbz

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As much as I'd like to justify the price of Coosa in this case., I can't. Wood should last 30 years if it's done right. This wood lasted 30 years and it was done like shit originally. Buddy just handed me a 120 yards of cloth and a bunch of woven roving. I hate cloth and woven roving, but that should be enough to seal up the frontside of the new wood.
 

lbhsbz

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Glass guy showed up...this the first piece. Crap fit up...more than an inch of gap. Needless to say, I’m ripping all this shit out and will start again, properly.
 

lbhsbz

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Only wasted $120 in materials....I’ll look at that as the cost of this particular lesson

My gut said to stop him...but he assured me that this how it’s done and it will be fine.

Trust your gut.

This episode of “how to properly replace a transom” will start saturday.
 
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lbhsbz

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Progress. I took a look at the thickener the stupid fucker brought...low density faring filler. 2 outta 5 stars for adhesion on the chart on the back of the fucking can...

So, $400 later at the Captain’s Locker in LB, I’ve got more epoxy, slow hardener (because I'm slow) 4 yards of 1708 (shithead brought about a yard and half), rollers, all kinds of other fun shit, and proper adhesive additive. FML

I ran a coat of thickened epoxy over areas where I had to grind out Delam, waited 3 hours for it to harden enough to hit it with the DA, then went after making a template. Instead of using paint sticks and staples, I used a tape measure, a square, math, my brain to the extent that it is useful..and the outline of where the OG transom wood was. Took 30 minutes, and I had a perfect template...cut the wood and it fit in one piece without an issue...I have no idea why the piece that my “glass guy” made 6” shorter was such a bitch to get in...the right size piece fits fine.

I wanted to add a piece of glass, but I also wanted the bedding compound to vent a bit so there were no voids...which wouldn’t work if I laminated a piece of 1708 to the backside of the wood after buttering up the wood with schmoo, so I wetted out the biax on a piece of cardboard, mixed up some peanut butter, spread that on the wood, laid the wetted 1708 in it and covered it in another quart of peanut butter, then clamped the shit out of it.

I drilled a bunch of bleed holes in the plywood...most of which oozed good...some of them are full of schmoo, only one or 2 seem not that full, but it looks like I made it with no major voids.

I laminated another piece of 3/4” over the main piece just in the middle that catches the bracing and the engine bracket load.

The original transom...based on the length of the tunnel tab turnbuckle anchor bolts, was only 3/4"...and it was fine....so I figured there was no sense in adding weight and making the tabbing job a complete bitch. I probably didn't need to double the thickness in the center, but I did anyway...because overkill is usually better and rarely worse.


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lbhsbz

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And....I FAWKING LOVE 1708 and epoxy. Cloth / mat and poly can kiss my ass.
 

lbhsbz

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Closer...

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Picture of the clean side brace...obviously...this was the second one I did. Made a mess of the first one...Epoxy everywhere. I'll clean it up later.

My 8 year old decided to help and came out with no shirt on and started climbing around in the boat while I was mixing up a batch of goop...I warned him. He's itchy as shit right now. Yes, I laughed at him.
 

Flying_Lavey

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If you haven't done it yet, I'd suggest pulling up the carpet off the tanks and checking them out since you already have everything else out of it. My Uncle's Aluminum tanks corroded from the outside in on his Seabring because they used to set them in expanding foam which would trap the water in the sponsons. He had IMCO make him new tanks and he's gonna reset them on rubber pads to eliminate the water absorbtion issue. Also, his didn't have any drainage in the front or rear bulkheads which hasn't caused him much issue but it easily can.

Just a couple things I'd suggest taking a look at since you already have torn this far apart.

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lbhsbz

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If you haven't done it yet, I'd suggest pulling up the carpet off the tanks and checking them out since you already have everything else out of it. My Uncle's Aluminum tanks corroded from the outside in on his Seabring because they used to set them in expanding foam which would trap the water in the sponsons. He had IMCO make him new tanks and he's gonna reset them on rubber pads to eliminate the water absorbtion issue. Also, his didn't have any drainage in the front or rear bulkheads which hasn't caused him much issue but it easily can.

Just a couple things I'd suggest taking a look at since you already have torn this far apart.

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That in the plan for next winter. My tanks are set in foam, and at least one of the bulkheads has some rot. This is already way more than I wanted to do to this thing before getting out to the river, so since they're not leaking yet...it'll have to wait. I wanna go to the river.
 

LazyLavey

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If you haven't done it yet, I'd suggest pulling up the carpet off the tanks and checking them out since you already have everything else out of it. My Uncle's Aluminum tanks corroded from the outside in on his Seabring because they used to set them in expanding foam which would trap the water in the sponsons. He had IMCO make him new tanks and he's gonna reset them on rubber pads to eliminate the water absorbtion issue. Also, his didn't have any drainage in the front or rear bulkheads which hasn't caused him much issue but it easily can.

Just a couple things I'd suggest taking a look at since you already have torn this far apart.

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^^^^^^^. Definitely........
Same issue with mine....
 

Backlash

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Nice project it's coming along slowly but surely. Well, not as slowly as MY project!!! Hahaha! The only thing I would recommend with your glass work is rounding over the edges on your wood/coring material. It allows the glass to lay down more smoothly and makes a smoother transition from surface to surface. A little easier to work with than the sharp corners. Otherwise it looks good. And yes, 1708 is a pleasure to work with.

I would second pulling the tanks. It isn't that hard to do and you're already "Right there." If for nothing else, peace of mind. The last thing you'd want to do is back this baby down the ramp (After all the time and energy you've put into this boat.....), to have it go boom when you fire it up. It only takes a small leak and one spark my friend. Safety first.

Anyways thank you for posting this up. It's nice to see another member who's not afraid to get a little itchy doing their own work. The stuff isn't rocket science; you just have to take your time and get out there and do it.

Keep up the good work!

Henry
 

Flying_Lavey

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Nice project it's coming along slowly but surely. Well, not as slowly as MY project!!! Hahaha! The only thing I would recommend with your glass work is rounding over the edges on your wood/coring material. It allows the glass to lay down more smoothly and makes a smoother transition from surface to surface. A little easier to work with than the sharp corners. Otherwise it looks good. And yes, 1708 is a pleasure to work with.

I would second pulling the tanks. It isn't that hard to do and you're already "Right there." If for nothing else, peace of mind. The last thing you'd want to do is back this baby down the ramp (After all the time and energy you've put into this boat.....), to have it go boom when you fire it up. It only takes a small leak and one spark my friend. Safety first.

Anyways thank you for posting this up. It's nice to see another member who's not afraid to get a little itchy doing their own work. The stuff isn't rocket science; you just have to take your time and get out there and do it.

Keep up the good work!

Henry
I wouldn't worry about the BOOM part. It's an outboard. Nothing inside the boat to make it go boom. More like a giant mess. And if running pre-mix (which I always suggest on pre DFI motors) it makes it THAT much more of a pain in the ass.

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lbhsbz

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Not perfect, but as perfect as it's gonna get. I used almost 4 yards of 1708 and 2 gallons of west systems epoxy.

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lbhsbz

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Thanks...I'm mildly impressed...I have no idea how the good glass guys make it look perfect.
Next up is to machine up a drill jig...bolt the old bracket bracket back on, and drill all 8 holes dead nuts perpendicular to the transom at 1/2", then modify the drill jig to accomodate a bushing and a 3/4" drill. I'll do the 1st and 3rd holes down at 3/4" through the jig...fill with microfiber thickened epoxy, then reinsert the bushing and drill to 1/2". Then flip the drill jig, fasten though the epoxied holes, and do the other 2 (4 on each side). Probably overkill, but in 500 years...the cockroaches will be chewing on dry wood if they can get to it through all the glass.
 

lbhsbz

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Ok...so I drilled the transom holes yesterday...based on the existing location, then overdrilled them to 3/4”, made a “syringe” out of some PVC pipe and a pencil with tape wrapped around it, and filled all the holes with thickened epoxy..:I used about 1/2 microfiber filler and 1/2 cab-o-sil...then drilled them all again before the epoxy set up like a rock.

Today’s task was sorting out the bracket. I had a couple chunks of 3/8” plate I cut up a while back, so I threw ‘em in the mill and made them match.

Then I drilled the holes...I wanted to use the existing angle pieces, because I’m cheap and there’s no reason to make new ones...but with the shorter side plates...we have a problem...

Fuck.
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I could have simply headed to the bandsaw and notched both pieces to clear each other, but that would have been simple, so I made some measurements and went back to the mill

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It’s 3/8” angle...I took 3/16” off the top of one and the bottom of the other, so they overlap. They fit together nicely...it just looks like shit cuz I haven’t blasted off the red paint yet.

Then I got the side plates finished up...bandsaw, wheel of death (16” 2hp disc grinder) and some finish work with my belt grinder and an EXL wheel

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And then it was off to anodizing

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I don’t have time for the real deal, so this’ll have to do for the summer...we’ll see how it all works and make it pretty over the winter.
 

t&y

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Been pondering this bracket for the last half hour. Going back over your thread and all the pictures. Still Stumped. WTF is it, and why are the brackets overlapping each other?o_O

The transom and supports came out real nice. Always rewarding knowing you did it right instead just the bare minimum making it work.
 

lbhsbz

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Been pondering this bracket for the last half hour. Going back over your thread and all the pictures. Still Stumped. WTF is it, and why are the brackets overlapping each other?o_O

The transom and supports came out real nice. Always rewarding knowing you did it right instead just the bare minimum making it work.
Have a look at the 2nd picture in the 2nd post. This boat doesn't have a splashwell like most outboard hulls...so there is an aluminum setback bracket that mounts to the transom, then the engine hangs on that. The original bracket was about a 10" setback. I want to run my jackplate, which is 5", so I needed to shorten the setback bracket to 5". The bracket is constructed of 3/8" plate and angle. The angle pieces ended overlapping with the shorter side plates.
 

t&y

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Ahh. Now I got it. So not only are you bringing the engine closer to the transom, you are lifting it up higher. Makes sense now.
 

lbhsbz

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Welp, supposed to leave for the river tomorrow so I guess it’s time to get back after it.

Ended up finding a cool house and moving right after I finished glassing the transom up, and between working on both places and getting settled in, the boat has just sat for the last year. I color sanded and polished it last weekend, bolted the plates back on last night.

Gotta rig up a fuel system, wire the trim pump and jack plate, figure out bilge pumps, hook up all the engine controls, build a battery box, and hopefully she’ll run.
 

LazyLavey

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Jan 20, 2017
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Welp, supposed to leave for the river tomorrow so I guess it’s time to get back after it.

Ended up finding a cool house and moving right after I finished glassing the transom up, and between working on both places and getting settled in, the boat has just sat for the last year. I color sanded and polished it last weekend, bolted the plates back on last night.

Gotta rig up a fuel system, wire the trim pump and jack plate, figure out bilge pumps, hook up all the engine controls, build a battery box, and hopefully she’ll run.
Bitchen little ride.... ya I'm a bit bias. here's my old 20.2
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Good luck and have fun with that ride!!!
 

lbhsbz

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Got it almost done and ended up fighting with cooling issues for half the day. Guess the boat staying home this weekend. Dammit.
 
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