WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

1979 Schiada RC, The Boss

lenmann

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Sorry about the lack of updates. I took a very needed month off to head south to do some off-roading with a great group of friends. Had an awesome time at Quartzite, Parker, and near Needles at the Avi. Racked up close to 2000 miles on the SxS’s, saw some amazing new places, relived some memories at some old places, broke some equipment, and generally ate and drank too much!



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The night we got home Newsom ordered us to shelter in place so no more excuses…progress is being made. Updates to follow.
 

420HOA

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Did a crash cause the shock mount break or harmonics or just riding abuse ?
 

lenmann

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Did a crash cause the shock mount break or harmonics or just riding abuse ?
It's a Yamaha YXZ that had an after market front shock bracket welded on by a reputable AZ shop. I am guessing the combination of the added lever effect from the new shock location and welding to high tensile steel resulted in the failure. It happened on day three in Quartsite about forty miles out, fortunately somebody had the crappy HD ubolts in thier tool bag and he drove it back. We don't ride as hard as some I know, but we aren't putt putters either so that may be a factor as well.
 

lenmann

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Back to work!

Ground out all of the old rigging through hull holes and rebuilt the areas with multiple layers of 1708 and CSM. Ground and sanded them pretty close to flat and flush. Didn't finish anything yet knowing I will need to address bigger sections when I get into blue printing the hull.

If you have followed along so far you know the Boss was raced in the Catalina Ski Race a couple of times early in its life, rode hard and put up wet later. When I first got it I did my best to lay a straight edge on the hull to see if it had any hook or rocker and thought it looked OK. There were some minor dips here and there where I could get to around the trailer bunks so I was feeling pretty good about it.

I have researched every thread on hull blueprinting here on RDP, and pretty much every other boat forum. The absolute best thread I have found on the subject comes from our very own @HydroSkreamin. In general blueprinting a hull means straightening, flattening and sharpening up the running surfaces, strakes and chines to best represent the plug (design intent) that the mold was pulled from. Over time as hull molds are used they flex, sag and warp deviating from their original shape. Once out of the mold, the hull can move around as well. Stresses applied during operation, a trailer that doesn’t fully support the hull both in transit and in storage, and even plain old gravity can cause the hull to change shape over time.


The Good:

Side to side at the transom is really straight. Using a straight piece of 12' long 1"x 2" aluminum tube as a straight edge; the front to back shape doesn't look too bad. When I spoke to Kornowski he said all Schiada's have a high spot on both sides between the strakes up near the shaft log. Mine does too.

I'm feeling pretty good at this point.

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The Bad:

A couple feet forward from the transom the side to side starts to dip. WTF?

340F565C-8DA7-4030-9D1F-CE967F4E9E1F.jpeg



The Ugly:

At the aft end of the inner strake the hull has close to 3/8" of dip in it. I couldn't use my straight edge over the strake so I cut and jointed a piece of 3/4" plywood and found that the depression, dip, dish or whatever you call it goes to about 12' forward of the transom.

89117FF8-4EEB-41AE-87EB-B4D24DBD1DCB.jpeg
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So at this point I was having a hard time getting my head around how the hull can be pretty straight (within 1/8") from the transom to 12' forward and dished 3/8" side to side. The shape is so consistent from the port to starboard sides that at one point I convinced my self that if was designed and molded that way! I sent Stan at Schiada some pics and he said it was NOT built that way and should be dead straight/flat front to back and side to side at least 100" forward of the transom. I asked him if it mattered performance wise and he said it was in essence a giant "hook" in the hull that would prevent to boat from taking a good set at speed, make the boat handle really bad, and that it needs to be fixed. I sent the same pics to Kornowski and he said it's pretty typical of older Schiadas, noting its one of the reasons blue printing can cost north of $10k.

After laying every straight edge I have on it, using a masons line and a construction I laser I was finally able to visualize the shape of the hull. Essentially, over time the hull kind of sagged down on either side of the main stringer (which sits on the main trailer bunk). It is kind of a gull wing (California Performance) hull like shape ending in a straight edge at the transom. I'm not sure what caused this. Maybe just time and gravity? Trailering on a rough I-40 for 41 years? I have suspected, based on the mold and fungus growing under the floors and water line stains up under the bow, that the boat may have been stored full of water for a period of time. Could the weight of that water have caused the sag? Not sure.

What I do know is that it needs to be fixed. Next step: grind the gelcoat off 75% of the hull so I can start laminating. WooHoo!

Gonna need another pail of resin i think.
 

HydroSkreamin

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Back to work!

Ground out all of the old rigging through hull holes and rebuilt the areas with multiple layers of 1708 and CSM. Ground and sanded them pretty close to flat and flush. Didn't finish anything yet knowing I will need to address bigger sections when I get into blue printing the hull.

If you have followed along so far you know the Boss was raced in the Catalina Ski Race a couple of times early in its life, rode hard and put up wet later. When I first got it I did my best to lay a straight edge on the hull to see if it had any hook or rocker and thought it looked OK. There were some minor dips here and there where I could get to around the trailer bunks so I was feeling pretty good about it.

I have researched every thread on hull blueprinting here on RDP, and pretty much every other boat forum. The absolute best thread I have found on the subject comes from our very own @HydroSkreamin. In general blueprinting a hull means straightening, flattening and sharpening up the running surfaces, strakes and chines to best represent the plug (design intent) that the mold was pulled from. Over time as hull molds are used they flex, sag and warp deviating from their original shape. Once out of the mold, the hull can move around as well. Stresses applied during operation, a trailer that doesn’t fully support the hull both in transit and in storage, and even plain old gravity can cause the hull to change shape over time.


The Good:

Side to side at the transom is really straight. Using a straight piece of 12' long 1"x 2" aluminum tube as a straight edge; the front to back shape doesn't look too bad. When I spoke to Kornowski he said all Schiada's have a high spot on both sides between the strakes up near the shaft log. Mine does too.

I'm feeling pretty good at this point.

View attachment 859028 View attachment 859029 View attachment 859030


The Bad:

A couple feet forward from the transom the side to side starts to dip. WTF?

View attachment 859031


The Ugly:

At the aft end of the inner strake the hull has close to 3/8" of dip in it. I couldn't use my straight edge over the strake so I cut and jointed a piece of 3/4" plywood and found that the depression, dip, dish or whatever you call it goes to about 12' forward of the transom.

View attachment 859036 View attachment 859037 View attachment 859038 View attachment 859039


So at this point I was having a hard time getting my head around how the hull can be pretty straight (within 1/8") from the transom to 12' forward and dished 3/8" side to side. The shape is so consistent from the port to starboard sides that at one point I convinced my self that if was designed and molded that way! I sent Stan at Schiada some pics and he said it was NOT built that way and should be dead straight/flat front to back and side to side at least 100" forward of the transom. I asked him if it mattered performance wise and he said it was in essence a giant "hook" in the hull that would prevent to boat from taking a good set at speed, make the boat handle really bad, and that it needs to be fixed. I sent the same pics to Kornowski and he said it's pretty typical of older Schiadas, noting its one of the reasons blue printing can cost north of $10k.

After laying every straight edge I have on it, using a masons line and a construction I laser I was finally able to visualize the shape of the hull. Essentially, over time the hull kind of sagged down on either side of the main stringer (which sits on the main trailer bunk). It is kind of a gull wing (California Performance) hull like shape ending in a straight edge at the transom. I'm not sure what caused this. Maybe just time and gravity? Trailering on a rough I-40 for 41 years? I have suspected, based on the mold and fungus growing under the floors and water line stains up under the bow, that the boat may have been stored full of water for a period of time. Could the weight of that water have caused the sag? Not sure.

What I do know is that it needs to be fixed. Next step: grind the gelcoat off 75% of the hull so I can start laminating. WooHoo!

Gonna need another pail of resin i think.
Man, Lenmann, I feel for ya. Been there, done that.

I’m pretty sure you won’t be sorry about fixing it and doing it right, it’s just a LOT of work.

You’re right, time to grind the gel off and get after it. One of the things that happened when I did mine is that the difference changes when you grind the gel off. Remember the markings on my running surface and the shape of the pieces needed outlined in marker? I don’t know if that’s how the experts do it, but it sure was helpful for me.

One thing I cannot stress enough is that these laminations REALLY COUNT!! This is your running surface and has a buttload of pressure on it at speed, so please make sure you follow temp and catalizing guidelines, as well as air-free laminations. You got this, and if I can be of any verbal assistance, feel free to PM me and we’ll talk. I’m not an expert but I did take very good notes from one and am very happy with the performance results from our efforts.

I’m ready for my own drama here very soon, as I’ll be derigging the StressEliminator and flipping it once again to finish the job I should have the first time: removing the rest of the pod that I left originally.

Keep up the great work, don’t get discouraged. These old pieces of Tupperware take a lot of effort but I can tell you in my case, it was definitely worth it. Yours is even cooler, so you’ve got that going for you, which is nice, except Bob’s not nearly your uncle yet😏😉

PS Thanks for the kind words, the whole goal of my thread was to share my learning experience. Glad you got something from it.
 

420HOA

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Back to work!

Ground out all of the old rigging through hull holes and rebuilt the areas with multiple layers of 1708 and CSM. Ground and sanded them pretty close to flat and flush. Didn't finish anything yet knowing I will need to address bigger sections when I get into blue printing the hull.

If you have followed along so far you know the Boss was raced in the Catalina Ski Race a couple of times early in its life, rode hard and put up wet later. When I first got it I did my best to lay a straight edge on the hull to see if it had any hook or rocker and thought it looked OK. There were some minor dips here and there where I could get to around the trailer bunks so I was feeling pretty good about it.

I have researched every thread on hull blueprinting here on RDP, and pretty much every other boat forum. The absolute best thread I have found on the subject comes from our very own @HydroSkreamin. In general blueprinting a hull means straightening, flattening and sharpening up the running surfaces, strakes and chines to best represent the plug (design intent) that the mold was pulled from. Over time as hull molds are used they flex, sag and warp deviating from their original shape. Once out of the mold, the hull can move around as well. Stresses applied during operation, a trailer that doesn’t fully support the hull both in transit and in storage, and even plain old gravity can cause the hull to change shape over time.


The Good:

Side to side at the transom is really straight. Using a straight piece of 12' long 1"x 2" aluminum tube as a straight edge; the front to back shape doesn't look too bad. When I spoke to Kornowski he said all Schiada's have a high spot on both sides between the strakes up near the shaft log. Mine does too.

I'm feeling pretty good at this point.

View attachment 859028 View attachment 859029 View attachment 859030


The Bad:

A couple feet forward from the transom the side to side starts to dip. WTF?

View attachment 859031


The Ugly:

At the aft end of the inner strake the hull has close to 3/8" of dip in it. I couldn't use my straight edge over the strake so I cut and jointed a piece of 3/4" plywood and found that the depression, dip, dish or whatever you call it goes to about 12' forward of the transom.

View attachment 859036 View attachment 859037 View attachment 859038 View attachment 859039


So at this point I was having a hard time getting my head around how the hull can be pretty straight (within 1/8") from the transom to 12' forward and dished 3/8" side to side. The shape is so consistent from the port to starboard sides that at one point I convinced my self that if was designed and molded that way! I sent Stan at Schiada some pics and he said it was NOT built that way and should be dead straight/flat front to back and side to side at least 100" forward of the transom. I asked him if it mattered performance wise and he said it was in essence a giant "hook" in the hull that would prevent to boat from taking a good set at speed, make the boat handle really bad, and that it needs to be fixed. I sent the same pics to Kornowski and he said it's pretty typical of older Schiadas, noting its one of the reasons blue printing can cost north of $10k.

After laying every straight edge I have on it, using a masons line and a construction I laser I was finally able to visualize the shape of the hull. Essentially, over time the hull kind of sagged down on either side of the main stringer (which sits on the main trailer bunk). It is kind of a gull wing (California Performance) hull like shape ending in a straight edge at the transom. I'm not sure what caused this. Maybe just time and gravity? Trailering on a rough I-40 for 41 years? I have suspected, based on the mold and fungus growing under the floors and water line stains up under the bow, that the boat may have been stored full of water for a period of time. Could the weight of that water have caused the sag? Not sure.

What I do know is that it needs to be fixed. Next step: grind the gelcoat off 75% of the hull so I can start laminating. WooHoo!

Gonna need another pail of resin i think.
I was told the trailer bunks sag and the hull follows the bunks especially in the heat
 

lenmann

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Man, Lenmann, I feel for ya. Been there, done that.

I’m pretty sure you won’t be sorry about fixing it and doing it right, it’s just a LOT of work.

You’re right, time to grind the gel off and get after it. One of the things that happened when I did mine is that the difference changes when you grind the gel off. Remember the markings on my running surface and the shape of the pieces needed outlined in marker? I don’t know if that’s how the experts do it, but it sure was helpful for me.

One thing I cannot stress enough is that these laminations REALLY COUNT!! This is your running surface and has a buttload of pressure on it at speed, so please make sure you follow temp and catalizing guidelines, as well as air-free laminations. You got this, and if I can be of any verbal assistance, feel free to PM me and we’ll talk. I’m not an expert but I did take very good notes from one and am very happy with the performance results from our efforts.

I’m ready for my own drama here very soon, as I’ll be derigging the StressEliminator and flipping it once again to finish the job I should have the first time: removing the rest of the pod that I left originally.

Keep up the great work, don’t get discouraged. These old pieces of Tupperware take a lot of effort but I can tell you in my case, it was definitely worth it. Yours is even cooler, so you’ve got that going for you, which is nice, except Bob’s not nearly your uncle yet😏😉

PS Thanks for the kind words, the whole goal of my thread was to share my learning experience. Glad you got something from it.
Thanks for the encouragement and offer of help, I appreciate it.

Hard to imagine pulling your boat back apart already after all that work but I get the pursuit of perfection deal.
 

HydroSkreamin

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I reread your post and looked at your bottom pictures today.

Those gaps are YUGE!! Are you thinking of maybe using some of your closed-cell foam to fill the large gaps? That’s a lot to fill just with fiberglass. It’ll take a long time and add a lot of weight. Just musing publicly...

I’d love to hear how a pro shop would tackle it.

If that’s from sitting on the bunks, I’d definitely add more bunk area to spread the load. Wow...
 

lenmann

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I got the bottom all ground down to bare glass and "mapped" the surfaces to determine the shape of the low areas and glass layers needed to fill them in.

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Cut the first two layers of glass. The first is 2 oz. CSM followed by a layer of 1708, which I will repeat until I get close to full build up when I grind the surface flat and make any final laminations needed.

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lenmann

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I reread your post and looked at your bottom pictures today.

Those gaps are YUGE!! Are you thinking of maybe using some of your closed-cell foam to fill the large gaps? That’s a lot to fill just with fiberglass. It’ll take a long time and add a lot of weight. Just musing publicly...

I’d love to hear how a pro shop would tackle it.

If that’s from sitting on the bunks, I’d definitely add more bunk area to spread the load. Wow...
Mind-blowing right? I spoke to Schiada and Kornowski about it and they both said build it up with glass, 3 layers max at a time to avoid excessive exo-therm that might cause warping. Back of the bar napkin weight addition will be about 40 pounds. These aren't light boats to begin with, its one of the reasons that they handle rough water well, so maybe it won't hurt performance too bad. A nice straight hull will be a very good thing.
 

HydroSkreamin

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Mind-blowing right? I spoke to Schiada and Kornowski about it and they both said build it up with glass, 3 layers max at a time to avoid excessive exo-therm that might cause warping. Back of the bar napkin weight addition will be about 40 pounds. These aren't light boats to begin with, its one of the reasons that they handle rough water well, so maybe it won't hurt performance too bad. A nice straight hull will be a very good thing.
Makes sense, and I agree with the exotherm concerns.

Before I started my project I worked on a layup table and laid up a layer of CSM and 2 layers of 1808 about 3’ long and polyester resin. I cut a 1’ square and weighed it, coming in at 0.97 lbs. Are you getting about 0.020” per layer? I can’t remember now what each layer added.

Make sure the straight edge you’re using is accurate so you’re not fighting that as well. Remember I had a couple of levels I checked against a granite inspection table. A light (straight) file on the paint took the paint globs off and both 6’ and 8’ levels were within 0.005”.

You’re in the right mindset to get this task done correctly, and asking the right questions. Keep it rolling, bud!
 

lenmann

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Makes sense, and I agree with the exotherm concerns.

Before I started my project I worked on a layup table and laid up a layer of CSM and 2 layers of 1808 about 3’ long and polyester resin. I cut a 1’ square and weighed it, coming in at 0.97 lbs. Are you getting about 0.020” per layer? I can’t remember now what each layer added.

Make sure the straight edge you’re using is accurate so you’re not fighting that as well. Remember I had a couple of levels I checked against a granite inspection table. A light (straight) file on the paint took the paint globs off and both 6’ and 8’ levels were within 0.005”.

You’re in the right mindset to get this task done correctly, and asking the right questions. Keep it rolling, bud!
I have been using this chart for glass and resin calcs. It's from a book titled Fiberglass Boatbuilding for Amateurs.

385071EA-DF6C-49FB-A5D7-EA0E0A7FFDAF_1_201_a.jpeg



The area on each side of the hull to be filled is 11' x 1.5' = 16.5 sq ft. I am using 2 oz. CSM which weighs .413 lb/sq ft when laminated so 16.5 x .413 = 3.4 lb/layer. Each layer will be .060 thick so it will take 6 layers to fill the 3/8" deep depression. So 3.4 lb x 6 = 20.44 lb per side.

After typing out the math here I realized the depression in the hull isn't 3/8" deep all the way across, rather it tapers from zero at the edges to 3/8" deep in the middle, so the weight per side is roughly half, or 10.22 lbs.

Check my thinking here, and don't be bashful about shouting out if you see something wrong.
 

HydroSkreamin

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I have been using this chart for glass and resin calcs. It's from a book titled Fiberglass Boatbuilding for Amateurs.

View attachment 859544

The area on each side of the hull to be filled is 11' x 1.5' = 16.5 sq ft. I am using 2 oz. CSM which weighs .413 lb/sq ft when laminated so 16.5 x .413 = 3.4 lb/layer. Each layer will be .060 thick so it will take 6 layers to fill the 3/8" deep depression. So 3.4 lb x 6 = 20.44 lb per side.

After typing out the math here I realized the depression in the hull isn't 3/8" deep all the way across, rather it tapers from zero at the edges to 3/8" deep in the middle, so the weight per side is roughly half, or 10.22 lbs.

Check my thinking here, and don't be bashful about shouting out if you see something wrong.
You’re all over it, man.

It looks like 3/4” in your pictures, and I was thinking “that’s a lotta glass!”

If there’s anything positive to this time of social distancing is there’s not much of an excuse not to get things done. My problem is what order...
 

tony

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Anymore progress on your bottom blueprinting? Awesome build thread thanks for sharing.
 

AZLineman

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I concur. Can I bring mine over when you are done? Lol.
 

74 spectra20 v-drive

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I have seen a lot of upside down Schiadas over the years at a friends shop fixing that dent. Mid 70's to early 80's I was told they had a mold issue. Looking great Sir, your attention to detail is inspiring.
 

Backlash

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Just checking in to see if you've made any progress with The Boss. The work you're doing looks amazing and I'm sure many folks will be following along. I know I'll be flipping my pig over once I finish with the interior support structure. Keep up the incredible work Sir!!
 

lenmann

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The good news is that I am a better laminator than keyboard cowboy.

I have been making lots of progress. Blueprinting a hull is a shit ton of work. I legitimately have somewhere north of 130 man hours into this and while the heavy lifting is done the devil is in the details.

I laid down the first two layers of cloth and used up all the resin I had on hand.

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The 'rona virus has slowed delivery of non-essential stuff so it took longer than normal to get another pail of goo so, time to bust out the grinder and scuff up the glass I just laid. Using straight edges and feeler gages I mapped out the boundaries of each layer needed to build the hull back up to where it was originally, topo map style. Each colored line becomes a piece of CSM that gets laminated, three layers at crack.

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Once I had all of the layers down I realized what was supposed to have been 3 oz. CSM was really 2 oz. meaning I was about 33% short of target thickness so some additional layers were needed. Once the extra layers were down and cured I ground down the high spots and started flattening things out using the grinder. Throughout this project I have been using 16 grit Zek grinding discs for damaged glass removal and prep. They cut like crazy, last forever, and leave a great surface for a mechanical bond. Zek discs are designed to grind concrete with long lasting silicon carbide abrasive grit, they have a rigid backing pad, and a depressed center unlike resin bonded sanding discs commonly used in glass work. One of the benefits of this rigid disc is that it can be laid flat across the abrasive face and used to flatten a surface similar to how a blanchard grinder works. It quickly knocks down high spots and you can literally feel the disc "free" up as the surface flattens out. There is definitely a learned technique here and its very possible to over grind a surface if you are not careful but I was able to get all of the new laminations flat within about .030" using this technique.

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In this last shot you can see the 3/8" of new glass laid on top of the original strake (the darker section below)
 

lenmann

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Very nice!!! Outstanding!
Thanks man, i appreciate the encouragement. As you are so well aware snowballs like this can get to be a little overwhelming at times. I'm making good forward progress now and can see some light at the end of this tunnel. Lots more tunnels on this journey, but one tunnel at a time.
 

lenmann

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I had a bunch of stress cracks up by the bow of the boat that needed addressing. The bow had been repaired and re-gelled from the front to about 5 feet back at some point in its glorious past. Like just about everything on this old boat, grinding off gelcoat to see what underneath is always an adventure. The trick with stress cracks is that you need to understand what caused them, correct that structural issue, and then execute a good cosmetic repair. The stress cracks that ran closest to the chine were caused by hard contacts at the inside of the hull with the original floor in the bow of the boat. This structural issue was corrected is a previous episode. So the next step is the chase the stress cracks with the grinder until they are all ground out. I had to grind out about 3/16" of glass to get all of the cracks out of the glass. In the last two shots you can see the areas built back up with fresh lamination and rough sanded in.

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The area circled in black at the forward keel was a little puzzling as there is a ton of glass in this part of the hull and it was hard to imagine this area flexing enough to cause the stress cracks. On top of that the cracks weren't very deep and there were not a lot of them. At one point I though maybe they were scratches from beaching the boat. The only way to know for sure was to grind the gelcoat off.

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Lovely. Well its clear now that the stress cracks were cracks and not scratches but they were not very deep. What is also clear is that I found the old repair that was done on the bow years ago. Early in this thread @RiverDave had mentioned that this boat was run aground on a gravel bar on Lake Mead years ago tearing off the running gear. Lee at Schiada confirmed that the boat had been repaired by another shop after the incident and was brought back to Schiada to have the strut reset to correct a handling issue.

I can't tell if this repair is related to the grounding although the repair method is similar to what was done by the first shop at the strut: bondo the outside, re-gel and add a bunch of glass on the inside. Here we can see that the crack was opened up with a grinding disk, a 1/4" hole was drilled in the aft end of the crack (presumably to stop it?) and then it was filled with bondo.

Only thing to do now is grind it all out and repair it correctly.
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Basically I ground most of the original hull laminate off to get the damage and de-lam out. You can see the repair glass that they added on the inside of the hull just peeking though on a couple of spots. Unfortunately I had to grind the strakes away to get a good repair down, but I can rebuild those pretty easily.

Glassed it back up with alternating layers of 3 oz. CSM and 8 oz. cloth.

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More fun to come as I get my posts caught up to where I am at now, stay tuned!
 

tony

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I've owned a few schiada's and all of them had really bad hooks except 1. Really nice work and your attention to detail is awesome. Your boat will be solid and rattle free and as far as i'm concerned the heavier the better thats why these boats ride so nice in the rough stuff for there size.
 

lenmann

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I've owned a few schiada's and all of them had really bad hooks except 1. Really nice work and your attention to detail is awesome. Your boat will be solid and rattle free and as far as i'm concerned the heavier the better thats why these boats ride so nice in the rough stuff for there size.
Thanks, she will definitely be solid when I'm finally done.
 

lenmann

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I've owned a few schiada's and all of them had really bad hooks except 1. Really nice work and your attention to detail is awesome. Your boat will be solid and rattle free and as far as i'm concerned the heavier the better thats why these boats ride so nice in the rough stuff for there size.
@tony Did you fix any of them? and did it make any difference? or could you tell the difference in the one that didn't have the hook?

I have talked to a couple of people who say all this blueprinting stuff is all BS black magic that fiberglass guys use to separate customers from greenbacks. They say it doesn't matter because the boat rides on a pretty small part of the hull at speed anyway.

Regardless, once I saw how bad it was my OCD wouldn't let me leave it alone. If the boat turns out to run like a dog I know it won't be because of the bottom!
 
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Backlash

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I think you're going to notice a difference in overall speed of the boat once you have the bottom straight and dialed in. I wouldn't be surprised if you pick up several MPH just by straightening the bottom. There is definitely a science to this and as you know, it takes a TON of work to get it done correctly. Keep up the incredible work Sir and thank you for posting detailed updates!! I know a lot of us are watching in awe!! 😉👍
 

tony

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@tony Did you fix any of them? and did it make any difference? or could you tell the difference in the one that didn't have the hook?

I have talked to a couple of people who say all this blueprinting stuff is all BS black magic that fiberglass guys use to separate customers from greenbacks. They say it doesn't matter because the boat rides on a pretty small part of the hull at speed anyway.

Regardless, once I saw how bad it was my OCD wouldn't let me leave it alone. If the boat turns out to run like a dog I know it won't be because of the bottom!
I had a 1982 RC that had a hook that I never fixed it ran right at 90 and handled great and is still running great with the new owner 10yrs later. I also had 1989 24 v-drive that I purchased not running and re did the entire boat but lost interest about 2 years into it and sold it. It was the Maroon 24 that rick at islander marine did a few years before he closed his shop. The last 21 was a 2006 which was blueprinted when it was being built new so can't really say if there was a difference? I'm like you though as far as OCD I would not even consider going as far as your going without addressing the bottom. I just like your attention to detail and you addressing all of the problems that the boat has from the factory and I really think it's going to be a very solid riding RC. Hopefully whatever shop you settle on for the gel-coat they see the amount of craftsmanship and love you put into it and match on there end!!!!! Thanks again for sharing your work.
 

footer

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Thanks for sharing your hard work. Really inspiring. Now I'll be the guy who never looks at buying another boat without first taking an 8 foot aluminum edge to check the hull for hook.
 

lenmann

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Well that should be the last of the glass work on the bottom. Next up a little filler in the low spots and a lot of sanding.

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Meet West Coast Wally, second cousin of @HydroScreamin 's shoulder killer, Big Wally. Essentially a 4" wide by 48" long sanding block, its how you make wavy stuff flat and straight.

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With that in mind I sprayed a coat of Duratec VE Blue Fairing Primer to get the shoulder burning party started. Think of this as sprayable bondo thats good for below waterline applications. Sprays out smooth, thick and sands pretty easy. The bottom at this point looks like a bag of walnuts but with some more sanding (40 grit) and little more filler its ready for a full coat of primer.

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This coat gets sanded out with 80 grit. Kinda rinse and repeat further refining the flat running surfaces but with some additional effort around better defining the strakes and chines. I am using machinist blueing (Dykem) thinned with alcohol as a guide coat. The worst part of this phase is climbing all over the damn thing on my knees to be able to get some sight lines down the strakes and leverage on the sanding blocks...

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Even with all the original gelcoat and the two layers of primer on the hull the edges of the strakes were still not as crisp or sharp as I needed them to be so I masked up the edges and shot about 20 mil of primer on to build them up. Most of this gets sanded off and ends up on the floor but the resulting sharp edge will remain.

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And the reward for all that sanding is a hull ready for its final coat of primer...and some more sanding!

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Backlash

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Man that's turning out SOOOOO nice!!! 👍 This is a helluva tutorial on how things should be done!!
 

74 spectra20 v-drive

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"And the reward for all that sanding is a hull ready for its final coat of primer...and some more sanding!" I loved your quote here! aint that the truth, once you go in there is no coming out! When I was doing my Spectra the guys at the shop would walk by me look at the boat and say " keep Sanding" incredible attention to detail and a killer shop class, you are part teacher as well my friend!
 

Ouderkirk

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This leaves one speechless. There aren't words do describe the quality of the work you're doing.

Magnificent, incredible, unbelievable, stupendous...... all seem inadequate.

A master craftsman at work.
 

lenmann

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Thanks guys, I appreciate that you are following along and the comments. I have learned that adding to this thread keeps me motivated to keep working on this old girl, so your encouragement matters and helps.

The funny thing about being OCD is that I always want things done right. Nothing pisses me off more than to pay good money and not get good work. Unfortunately it happens too often. The curse of having just a little bit of skill, some experience, and access to resources like RDP is that I take on stuff like this project telling myself it will be fun and not that big a job. Don't get me wrong, I am happiest when I am doing something with my hands and mind so this isn't time completely mis-spent and every time I finish a phase of it I get the very tangible satisfaction of having done something right that meets my standards.

It's mildly ironic that at close to 160 man-hours in on blue printing the bottom of this 41 year old boat that only the fish in what ever river or lake I boat in will ever see the result of my labors. But I will know it was done right.

Thanks again for following along.
 

aaronschiada

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You are making me feel like a lazy son of a bitch. Awesome buddy. I wish I had your shop too! Is this going to be a full interior boat when complete? What motor?
 

EPL

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Thanks guys, I appreciate that you are following along and the comments. I have learned that adding to this thread keeps me motivated to keep working on this old girl, so your encouragement matters and helps.

The funny thing about being OCD is that I always want things done right. Nothing pisses me off more than to pay good money and not get good work. Unfortunately it happens too often. The curse of having just a little bit of skill, some experience, and access to resources like RDP is that I take on stuff like this project telling myself it will be fun and not that big a job. Don't get me wrong, I am happiest when I am doing something with my hands and mind so this isn't time completely mis-spent and every time I finish a phase of it I get the very tangible satisfaction of having done something right that meets my standards.

It's mildly ironic that at close to 160 man-hours in on blue printing the bottom of this 41 year old boat that only the fish in what ever river or lake I boat in will ever see the result of my labors. But I will know it was done right.

Thanks again for following along.
Your making me tired just reading about all the work your doing Len !! Looks a lot different then when we turned it over !!
 

lenmann

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You are making me feel like a lazy son of a bitch. Awesome buddy. I wish I had your shop too! Is this going to be a full interior boat when complete? What motor?
Thanks Aaron. It will be a full interior boat, all white Arko/Conquest style. TT 540.
 

BamBam

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At this point you also need to think about flipping the boat and setting it back on the trailer with the bunks in raw wood (no carpet). I say to do that now so you can clean any mars caused by the raw wood. The reason being is the boat can contour to an ill fitting trailer. If you leave the carpet off the bunks to ensure the fit you will know it's right when you add the carpet for final assembly. Cut and re weld the supports or add wedges between the supports and wood to ensure a tight fit. You also need to ensure the bunks are solidly on the cav plate in the rear. Some of the trailers have the boat too far back.

This is amazing work. I'm betting @lenmann ends up doing his own OCD gelcoat job after seeing the attention to detail and the craftsmanship displayed.
 
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HydroSkreamin

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It's mildly ironic that at close to 160 man-hours in on blue printing the bottom of this 41 year old boat that only the fish in what ever river or lake I boat in will ever see the result of my labors. But I will know it was done right.
Lenmann, awesome work, grasshopper! Very well done. I’m so proud of the work you’ve done. My shoulders are remembering what that felt like...

You really are at the point to shoot the gel yourself, but if you do, make absolutely sure everything is covered and taped off. I can still feel overspray in areas I never thought it would reach.

Isn’t it an awesome feeling when there’s no light coming under the straightedge, or only a super thin feeler gauge fits?

Keep up the great work, and it is satisfying to document it, isn’t it?

I’ll keep following and looking forward to seeing you get it finished to your satisfaction and flipped. Make sure you look at the reflections in it when you flip it, it’ll blow your mind.

Sanding the gel is a tedious task, because it’s very hard, and you have to clean and change your paper more often.

I found that a one foot square of 1” foam made life nicer for my knees.

West Coast Wally has earned his stripes! Love the name 😂

Speaking of which, getting materials to get after mine. Check out my thread for updates in a couple of weeks.

Seriously, gel it yourself. $10 Harbor Freight gun with tip opened up to 2.4 mm. Do it!!
 

lenmann

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At this point you also need to think about flipping the boat and setting it back on the trailer with the bunks in raw wood (no carpet). I say to do that now so you can clean any mars caused by the raw wood. The reason being is the boat can contour to an ill fitting trailer. If you leave the carpet off the bunks to ensure the fit you will know it's right when you add the carpet for final assembly. Cut and re weld the supports or add wedges between the supports and wood to ensure a tight fit. You also need to ensure the bunks are solidly on the cav plate in the rear. Some of the trailers have the boat too far back.

This is amazing work. I'm betting @lenmann ends up doing his own OCD gelcoat job after seeing the attention to detail and the craftsmanship displayed.
I have been thinking about the trailer fit issue as well, I would hate to undo any of the work done so far. My current trailer is the original Competitive rolled channel deal and its pretty rough so the plan was to have a new one built while the gel work is being done. That said, because I live in NorCal and all the good gel guys are in SoCal or Havasu so I will need to transport the finished hull 600 or so miles on the old Competitive. I was planning to to a quick re-carpet of the bunks and adjust them when I put the finished hull on it but your point about carpet masking bad fit up is valid. Definitely something to think about. I suppose I could tape up the finished bottom for the bare bunk fit-up deal. As you will see in my next post, I have already shot the bottom gelcoat. My posts have caught up some but not still real time.

I have thought about doing the top side gel but there's a big difference in shooting a single color and taping out multiple pin stripes, shooting multiple colors, pulling the right tape at the right time, and then there is the mess. I spent more time covering everything up in my shop to protect it from overspray than I did shooting the bottom gel. That shit is sticky and it gets everywhere!

Thanks for your thoughts on this Mike, I appreciate the extra eyes looking ahead.
 

lenmann

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Final coat of Duratec VE primer on and the guide coat applied. More sanding...this time with 180 grit.

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Happy with the way the strakes sharpened up.

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Shot 3 + gallons of Dura-Kote Tapeline White gelcoat. The first 3 coats mixed 70:30 with DuraTec Clear High Gloss additive to build opacity and the last two coats at 50:50 to get to a 30 mil thickness. The additive helps the gelcoat spray better, flow out with less orange peel and best of all eliminates the need for an air inhibitor like wax in the gel coat or PVA sprayed on afterward. I used this combination on the finished bilge of the DCB Mach 22 I recently sold and was pretty happy with the results. It laid out smooth enough that I didn't need to sand or polish it. This time I really had trouble getting the gel to lay down and flow out. I used the same gravity feed HVLP gun with a massive 4.5mm air cap but at the 70:30 mix it went down a little dryish and didn't flow well, the 50:50 batches sprayed and flowed better but because the base layers were lumpy I ended up with more orange peel than I wanted that will require some extra sanding. Oh boy! Turns out this gel coating deal has a bit of a learning curve.

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jmeads

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The attention to detail is incredible. This is documenting the effort and hard work it takes to do it right ! Well done. Thank you for taking the time to post all the pictures and detail write up.

Who did you buy all your supplies from. Glass, resin, filler, primer and get coat. Thanks
 

HydroSkreamin

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Ha! You did it!

The gel sands harder, but comes in quickly because you’re really just removing the orange peel. That thing will look like a sheet of glass shortly.

I’m in agreement with your thoughts on multiple color gel coating, let the experts do that. You took care of the dirty work and ugliness on the bottom that would have been a huge expense.

I’m guessing after whoever it is sees the incredible job that you did on the bottom in your home garage realizes how picky you are, they’ll strive to do just as good or better on the top.

Nice work!!👍👍
 

lenmann

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The attention to detail is incredible. This is documenting the effort and hard work it takes to do it right ! Well done. Thank you for taking the time to post all the pictures and detail write up.

Who did you buy all your supplies from. Glass, resin, filler, primer and get coat. Thanks
Thanks Jon. If I had any brains I would have just bought your RC back when. That way I wouldn't be walking around with white gel overspray speckles on my legs and I'd be out boating.

On the supply chain side:

The DuraTec stuff all comes from RevChem in Bloomington (SoCal) http://revchem.com although they have distribution centers all over the west coast. I am pretty sure Dura and Revchem are related companies somehow. Anyway they have a very deep line card with every kind of composite product you could ever want and are really the 800 pound gorilla in the world of composites. That said they are mostly a B2B operation meaning when you call the order desk they expect you to be ready with part numbers instead of product names. If you need technical advise they will refer you to a technical rep who you can call for advice. Not the most DIY friendly model but thats not their target market.

For glass, resin and supplies I use either Express Composites in MN https://www.expresscomposites.com, Fiberglass Supply in WA http://www.fiberglasssupply.com, or SherFab in SoCal https://www.sherfab.com. The guys on the phone at these places are super helpful for the DIY home builder type and each has an easy online ordering portal. Express has slightly better prices but shipping takes longer. SherFab has the Lilly/Ram gelcoat line which has been a staple in the custom boat business forever and they will color match gel.
 

lenmann

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If you mean "Damn!!! You have a lot more sanding to do" you are spot on.

Because the orange peel was more than I wanted I had to start with 280 grit dry instead of 400 grit wet. It took 6 hours to get everything knocked down flat and to clean up the inside corners of the strakes and chine. Next up 320 wet, 400 wet, 600 wet, 800 wet 1000 wet, then 3M Marine Compound finished off with 3M Finesse polish. The trick here is taking off just enough material so the next grit sands out quickly without any scratches left from the prior grit but not so much that I sand through the gel. If all goes as planned I should have a post up on Sunday of a really shiny and really straight RC bottom!

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