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2 stroke engines in Formula 1 race cars - greener than electric cars!

Discussion in 'RD's Lounge' started by sirbob, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. sirbob

    sirbob Well-Known Member

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    I can see two-stroke Ferraris and McLarens etc. coming to the street soon!

    How cool would they sound?



    F1 WITH PRINCESS YACHTS

    Two-stroke engines & eco-fuel: F1 aims to be greener than Formula E
    Dominic Tobin

    Photo: Motorsport Images
    Formula 1’s plan for green and noisy engines: two-stroke hybrids, running on synthetic fuel

    Formula 1 is looking to introduce two-stroke engines that run on eco-fuel by the middle of the decade, as it develops plans to become carbon neutral.

    The proposal is said to make the sport greener than electric racing series, such as Formula E, while still using internal combustion engines — with improved sound.

    Current F1 hybrid engines will be replaced by a new specification of power unit from 2025 or 2026. It will play a significant role in Formula 1’s project to become carbon neutral in 2030.

    “I’m very keen on it being a two-stroke,” said Pat Symonds, chief technical officer of Formula 1, at the Motorsport Industry Association’s energy-efficient motorsport conference.

    “Much more efficient, great sound from the exhaust and a lot of the problems with the old two strokes are just not relevant any more.”

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    The new engines are likely to remain hybrids but powered by synthetic fuel, made by combining hydrogen with carbon captured from the air, using surplus green energy.

    As well as the cars, this e-fuel could power the planes that carry the cars and equipment to races, making a big dent in the sport’s carbon footprint.

    Research presented at the conference showed that electric racing cars could be responsible for twice the level of carbon emissions as hybrid racing cars, because of the amount produced when building the batteries.

    “We need to look at what our future power units will look like,” said Symonds. “At F1 this is what we are engaged in at the moment.”

    Symonds has started work on new engine regulations | Photo: Motorsport Images
    He said that the sport’s pledge to continue with the current engines until 2025 gave it the time to “make sure that the next step is a really good one”.

    “It might be that the next power unit we produce is the last one we do with liquid hydrocarbons,” he said. “I think there’s a very high chance that there might still be an internal combustion engine but maybe it’s running on hydrogen.

    “I certainly think that the internal combustion engine has a long future and I think it has a future that’s longer than a lot of politicians realise because politicians are hanging everything on electric vehicles.

    “There’s nothing wrong with electric vehicles but there are reasons why they are not the solution for everyone.”

    Symonds said that he is currently visiting universities carrying out engine research to inform the new regulations.

    He told the conference that he was struck by the amount of research going into two-stroke engines, which are better-known for their smoky and noisy performance in lawmowers, rather than their potential at the pinnacle of motor sport.

    “It’s reasonably obvious that if you are going to pump that piston up and down, you might as well get work out of it every time the piston comes down rather than every other time the piston comes down,” he said.

    “The opposed piston engine is very much coming back and already in road car form at around 50 per cent efficiency.

    “Direct injection, pressure charging, and new ignition systems have all allowed new forms of two-stroke engines to be very efficient and very emission-friendly. I think there’s a good future for them.”

    Engine development could follow the same process as the new rules for 2021 | Photo: Motorsport Images
    Symonds is looking to set up a working group to develop the specification for the next F1 engine, mirroring the way that the 2021 chassis rules were drawn up.

    Teams would be encouraged to work collaboratively, as the design would be more prescriptive in an effort to keep a lid on costs.

    Symonds says that synthetic fuel would be tailored to the engine, using an optimum blend of hydrocarbons, to improve efficiency and performance, while reducing particulate emissions.

    The fuel would allow the engine to run with a higher compression ratio, improving efficiency by up to 2.4 per cent.

    Before then, the sport is looking to introduce e-fuels that can be used in current engines as production capacity increases.

    “As soon as there is enough around we should be doing it and we’re not that far away from what we need,” said Symonds.

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  2. fishing fool

    fishing fool Well-Known Member

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    I love the sound smell of 2 stroke bikes......
     
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  3. coolchange

    coolchange Lower level functionary

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    Now if they would run it on caster!!!
     
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  4. Cdog

    Cdog Well-Known Member

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    F all that mess. V8's V10's & V12's. Naturally aspirated with 1 refuel per race to keep it interesting. They need to close the tech gap and go to simpler power plant systems not dominated by how much money you have.

    I'm a road racer in a spec class that grew up karting and have watched F1 since the 80's.

    My last night...

    8ABD423D-7DA8-4B8A-8F02-176FB97535D2.jpeg
     
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  5. Bigbore500r

    Bigbore500r Well-Known Member

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    Isn't F1 primarily about the "tech" and pushing all boundaries of design, function, efficiency, weight, etc? It's always been the big $$$ auto sport
     
  6. HST4ME

    HST4ME Well-Known Member

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    :D
     
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  7. Cdog

    Cdog Well-Known Member

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    Mercedes is killing the sport. We're down to cheating with fuel solenoids as of the 2nd half of last year. It will still have plenty of tech with N/A engines.
     
  8. Flatsix66

    Flatsix66 Well-Known Member

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    A V10 Two stroke revving to 19,000k...Yeah!
     
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  9. Flatsix66

    Flatsix66 Well-Known Member

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    That's bitchen!
     
  10. Flying_Lavey

    Flying_Lavey Dreaming of the lake

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    Thanks for sending me down that wormhole....





    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
     
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  11. RaceTec

    RaceTec Well-Known Member

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    It would be revving WAY past 19k, they were turning over 20k with the V10's back when I was involved... I would expect a 2 smoke F1 engine to be closer to 30k... Valves are the limiting factor, cranks, rods, and pistons can do it...
     
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  12. SummitKarl

    SummitKarl LHC Architect

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    I am not buying the corvette thing, thats a two cylinder making that noise most likely banshee or jetski soundtrack
     

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