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2014 XP1000 shock changes...my long story.

Discussion in 'Offroad Tech - Ask a Question any Question!' started by Flyinbowtie, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Flyinbowtie

    Flyinbowtie Well-Known Member

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    This info is for any of you running the Walker Evans shocks on your earlier XP1K's who are looking to improve the ride and performance of your machine without dropping 4 grand or more on new shocks.

    Background
    Back in 2009 we had a Teryx, and I dropped about $5500 on a full on Cognito long travel kit with Fox RC2 shocks. That suspension was simply awesome, and I knew when we sold it and moved up to the XP I was going to be using that package as a yardstick for measuring the suspension on the XP.
    At first glance it looked like Polaris did their homework on the shocks and spring/valving package with the machines, WE has a good rep in the race industry.
    Unfortunately, time has proven that Polaris let the bean counters and others get involved in the final package that went into production, and it, in a word, sucks. They essentially ignored all the R&D WE did on the shock package and ordered their own "package" from Walker.
    If you have a trashed back like I do, it really sucks.
    We upgraded to PRP seats with heat and lumbar support, but it was clear the shocks were going to need work. I looked at long travel kits for the XP, but only for a few minutes, because the kits were about double what they were for the Teryx, and there was no way I was going to spend 10k on this thing and take an even bigger bath when the time comes to sell it.
    Just a set of Fox RC'2s would have been close to $4500, and that was with an off the shelf spring and valve package, which I didn't want. We haul close to 100 lbs of stuff in the back of the thing and have lots of accessories that make the car heavy, and I ain't a small guy, but my wife is a smaller lady...
    So...I waited.
    Over the past couple of years several top players in the UTV suspension game have come around, and I called and talked to several, and tried to talked to several more whom either didn't return my call or email for weeks, or not at all, or acted like I wasn't worth their time.

    Step 1

    I made a $1400 mistake and went to a vendor with a good rep on many products who was bringing Bilstein into the UTV market. After talking and emailing several times I bought a set of shocks he had used to work up a recipe for springs and valving. I told him what I wanted and the particulars about our car and my back, and he was certain this was the hot ticket.
    They were not.
    I emailed and talked with him several times, and after many hours of nitrogen pressure changes, ride height changes and crossover changes I gave up. Several more knowledgeable guys looked at them and drove the car and told me they needed to be revalved and resprung.
    The vendor told me he didn't know what the problem was but would revalve them for free but if spring changes were necessary that would be on me as would shipping, both ways.
    I wasn't moved to do that. If he didn't know what the problem was how would he fix it? So I gave up, put the Walkers back on, and they actually performed better than the Bilsteins. Even Cindy commented on it.
    Of course, this vendor stopped responding to my messages so any further contact with him is out of the question. Lesson learned. This all went on during the time when Dawson was ill and were were focused on him, so while I didn't talk to him regularly he knew what was up.
    Lesson learned.
    I sold the shocks to a young man locally, who runs a machine with nothing in the bed and no passengers and he drives WFO most of the time. I told him the whole story and he was happy to get them, and I only lost $400 on the deal.


    Then I did some more reading, and finally got in touch with Ed Niemala, "The Suspension Guy"

    See Part 2
     
  2. grumpy88

    grumpy88 Well-Known Member

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    Where's part 2 ? I have had no luck with walker evens . Different machine but I can't wait to read the rest
     
  3. Flyinbowtie

    Flyinbowtie Well-Known Member

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    Ed has been in the game for many years. He is about as honest a man as you will ever talk to, and I told him my story. He is a fireman, and does shock work at home. If you have an XP with any shock package at all or even one of the new CanAm's he is the guy to talk to if you want the straight scoop on these machines and the options for improving the suspension.
    If you rear Rzr forums he has spent hours explaining the whole program, and is a dealer for Walker and King.
    So I told him what I had what I wanted, and what I had to spend.

    Ed likes Walker Evans shocks. He has spent untold hours in the desert with them and knows what to do to fix them. As delivered the stck shocks are not true dual rate shocks. They have no crossover nuts, the tender springs simply offer resistance and stability as the suspension travels out. The vast majority of the suspension is provided by the single lower spring. Those are spec'ed and sourced by Polaris. I suspect they are Chinese.
    First points Ed educated me on were regarding the front shocks on the earlier XP1Ks.
    The front shocks are really not worth spending any money on. They are called 2.0's and they perform poorly.
    One of the big problems is the fact that they hold very little oil and it doesn't take much hard running before the oil heats up to the point where it nearly vaporizes, rendering it essentially nonoperational. The springs are wrong, and the valving is wrong.
    Ed said he didn't want me wasting money on them and suggested I buy new front shocks, which are legit 2.5 shocks that he would spring and valve and set the ride height for me based on shock position left or right, and my weight info.

    Below is a pic of the stock shock with a new 2.5 next to it for comparison.
    20180201_114917.jpg


    The new ones are wearing Eibach springs and crossover nuts, making these now a true dual rate spring.

    Ed told me there was no point in buying new rears that they were good shocks and simply needed to be built right for my application which he could do, no problem. He warned me to be very careful when disassembling the shocks for shipping. Apparently Polaris went cheap and these shocks have aluminum bodies, and a bit of dirt is all that it takes to gall the threads, which leaves the body junk. (He told me that he adds a crossover lock nut on top of the ride height spring placement nut to keep dirt out. I was very careful taking them apart and had no problems.)
    I had become aware of a company that builds a high and low speed adjuster that bolts in place of the stock WE adjuster and asked if he thought I needed them if so Id have him install them.
    His response was, "Jeff, let me rebuild and do my work on these shocks and then you run them, after that if you think you need those adjusters you can probably put them on yourself.
    If he had answered yes, I would have bought them and had him put them on. Honest guy. Trying to give the customer what he needs, not just spend his money.

    I didn't get a pic of the stock rears, but you get the idea, same set up as the fronts, tender spring completely collapsed when installed and car is at rest, performs same function as the front, maintaining the stack at the shock stroke moves out, and collapses putting the load on the lower spring. No crossover nuts, etc.
    Here is a picture of the new rears on the floor, and one of the right rear as installed and weight loaded.
    538969332_LI.jpg

    And on the car...

    20180201_145617.jpg

    Initial impressions are that this is a different car entirely.

    More to come in a bit...
     
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  4. Flyinbowtie

    Flyinbowtie Well-Known Member

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    Ed sent the fronts "wide open which means in full soft mode to allow the shocks to break in, which I had never thought of but which makes perfect sense when you think about the piston moving and the seals etc. He told me after I get some miles on them I could start bringing them in firmer, that he likes to go from soft to firm then back a click if necessary.
    I haven't been able to really get on it but made a run around the place and the car feels much more planted. Even with the fronts in full soft and the rears 4 clicks from full soft it feels more stable. I managed to get through one rutted section that in the past was a max 5 MPH and don't grit your teeth or you'll lose a filling deal, and literally it was at least 50% smoother.
    He had my weight, Cindys weight, the existing accessories and planned ones, the weight of all the crap in the back, (which might surprise you when you add it up..I carry an action packer deal with spares and tools etc and it totaled 95 lbs!!!)
    The shocks come tagged with the position they are built for...
    He nailed the ride height.
    The car sits exactly where it was in the rear and a bit higher in the front. He seems to like them a bit lower all around to get them to handle but I need to think about that with the trail riding we seem to be doing these days.
    The odds of our getting out for the trip I mentioned elsewhere are getting better by the day. I will be able to do some trail work with it and then some dunes. Please look at my other thread and if you plan on being at Dumont Feb 23 through 26 or so, or are going someplace else with good riding and wouldn't mind us tagging along let me know.
    I will report back on this after I can test it correctly, but feel good about it so far.
    As I stated, Ed is a fireman and works shifts keep that in mind. His business is "Ed The Suspension Guy" and his cell is 714-343-3399. We had a hiccup during our back and forth; he was out of town and his Ipad crashed but he has been on the ball since that and kept me informed after that.
    And that is important to me, he told me he would be available to help me get them right where I need them, and that is why he is so busy he knows his stuff and takes care of his customers. If you contact him tell him you heard about him here via Jeff's post...
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  5. grumpy88

    grumpy88 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info I am going to reach out to him
     
  6. DLC

    DLC Well-Known Member

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    Coil over shocks are the latest and greatest , however the tuning that it takes to get it right, ride height, 2 spring weights, valving....

    It takes a little bit to get it right and no 2 or shall I say 4 shocks are the same due to weight and speed...

    Thanks for posting! I hope they turn out great for you!
     
  7. Bigmutha

    Bigmutha Well-Known Member

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    I've heard a lot of good things about Ed, is he in the Rancho Cucamonga area?. I took the shocks off of my 2017 XP 4 1000 to Walker Evans and they re-sprung my shocks and did some valve work, what a difference! I haul a lot of weight in my car also, the guy at Walker Evans asked about the weight i put in my car and what type of riding I mostly do. The end result was awesome, $1500 well spent. I was thinking of taking my RZR to ED to make sure I was getting the best results out of my suspension.
     
  8. Flyinbowtie

    Flyinbowtie Well-Known Member

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    Yes he is, I think actually Fontana but right in that area. On this last trip we finally got to put some miles on them, chasing the TPC's around Spanlger Hills. Some speeds in the 50 MPH range and some slower bumps etc. I am quite pleased with the improvement.
    The fronts are like night and day from the old 2.0's. I've already sold the old front stockers for $200 so I recouped a bit of my $ from there.
    The rears are well balanced with the fronts, the harshness in the little choppy stuff is almost completely gone, to the point of no longer being an issue. That "sharp sprung way to hard" feeling that it had when running slowly across uneven terrain is also gone. We got about 10-15 miles on the fronts with them set to full soft per Ed's instructions to break them in a bit and wound up with them in position 3 I believe.
    The rears are at 2 right now.
    When we got to Dumont and were able to get after it a bit even my wife noticed the improvement in the handling and the way the suspension soaked up the rough stuff. In a stretch of whoops we were running about 35-40 where with the stock set up such speeds would have had the car wanting to swap ends if possible at all, and would have bucked us outta the seats.
    All in all very happy.
    As I said earlier Ed doesn't do a one size fits all deal. He wants your weight, the weight of your passenger(s), the weight of the stuff you haul in the bed and any heavy accessories you have, or plan to have soon. I gave him all of that and when I put the shocks on the ride height was absolutely perfect, he nailed it. I measured it after a trip or two down the driveway and it has not settled at all...Eibach Springs are worth the $
    The other thing that I like is that Ed is enthusiastic about working with you to dial them to whatever you want, and very patient when explaining what he does and why he does it.
    With the benefit of hindsight I would do the exact same thing again.
    It isn't as good as a long travel kit but it wasn't 10 grand, and it makes the most of the suspension the car has,, and I don't think I could ask for more than that...

    Any of you guys who do reach out to him tell him you saw the thread I started here, I told him I was going to do this....and post up what your experience is.
    Remember...he is a LAFireman, and has a full time (and then some) job. I've always had good luck texting him on Mondays and Tuesdays, but if you don''t hear back form him in a day or two text him again...it will be worth the effort...
     
  9. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    I talked with ed the other day, but i didn't know your name so i didn't drop it. Thinking about doing my 2 seater, so you would do it again?
     
  10. Flyinbowtie

    Flyinbowtie Well-Known Member

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    Howdy....when you talk to him tell him Jeff, the retired cop from NorCal. He has my text info. Point him to this thread.
    PM me your name and I will text him and tell him you are one of my referrals if you like.

    So..as to your question about doing it again. The answer is absolutely positively yes.
    It changes the whole personality of the car and gives you confidence to drive it. Be very specific as to what you want, and give him all the weight information on you, your primary passenger, and the weight of the crap you haul in the back. Also any heavy additional parts.

    The more specific you are with your driving habits and what you want the better he can meet your needs. It isn't cheap, but I would do exactly what I did before. The replacement fronts and the reworked and resprung rears, with the legit dual rate package. I have contacted him a couple of times about changes I made to tire and wheel combos and he has been very helpful. If the plans come together and we are able to buy a new ride in 2 years if any shock work is necessary he will get my $
    Could not be happier with him. He is a full time firefighter and sometimes can't get right back to you but be patient and consistent.
    You won't be sorry.
     
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  11. Havaduner

    Havaduner Never home on weekends

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    I will second everything FB said about Ed. He did my 2016 XP1000 as well. Went a slightly different way than the above, but I did my suspension specifically for my wife with her back/neck issue. Ed actually met her at Glamis, and asked her what she wanted as well. He nailed the suspension settings and all I had to do was firm it up a little after running it a while. I sold that one back in June, I've talked to the new owner and he was raving about how good the suspension was working for him. If I get another S X S, I'll have Ed set up the suspension on that one too!
     
  12. evantwheeler

    evantwheeler Well-Known Member

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    I would recommend upgrading that stock sway bar to the aftermarket Eibach unit. Cheaper than shock therapy, and brings your rig to an even more stable operating condition. You probably want to upgrade the links to aftermarket units at the same time. This totally changed my rig for the desert and sand duning that I did (2 seat XP1k).

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eibach-E40...ash=item2141659566:g:74MAAOSwzpFbH-Ho&vxp=mtr

    I spoke to Ed and he even let me borrow his 2.5 fronts and revalved rear loaner set in Glamis a couple years back. Unfortunately, I didn't feel that the difference between my stock setup was worth the coin at that time and I didn't make a move. I'm glad I ran across this thread because I need to contact him about re-working my 2 seat sand car that I upgraded to. I am local to him and forgot about his services. He was great to deal with, and like you said, a straight up honest guy.
     
  13. NicPaus

    NicPaus Well-Known Member

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    Just tell him you are part of our Echo Crew. He posts on here every now and then. Was hanging out with him Labor day.
     
  14. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    Next door river neighbor just had his done by ed and he loves them, i think I'm going to nut up and have ed do mine.
     
  15. NicPaus

    NicPaus Well-Known Member

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    He is out now just saw him.
     
  16. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    I know, wish I was there so I could give him my shocks
     
  17. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    30372135-824A-4F9C-AF85-FBD49848294B.png Should be ready to go soon.
     
  18. Hammer

    Hammer Well-Known Member

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    Spoke with Ed. Dropping my rears off tomorrow and am going to pick up a set of 2.5’s for the front


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Awesome. Cant wait to hear your thoughts. I may go through him for some front 2.5s as well... I need to give him a call.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  20. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    I got quite a bit of riding in this last weekend, big difference in the bigger whoops and things, can go way faster then I could before. I didn't notice a huge difference in the slow speed side of things, maybe a little better in the washboard stuff.
     
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  21. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Great news!

    Did you have stock 2.0 fronts before, or revalved and resprung 2.0s? It sounds like you went from stock to the 2.5s.
     
  22. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    Yea I had stock before and now the 2.5's. Got a set of low hour 2.0's if you know anyone who needs a set.
     
  23. pronstar

    pronstar President, Dallas Chapter

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    Makes sense...bigger shocks really start distancing themselves from smaller ones as you put more energy into them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  24. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Well I might be getting the 2.5 front shocks a little sooner..

    Did the 65 mile Desert Bash run today and I ended the day with shock oil all over the left front of the car. The car was awesome until the front shock deteriorated towards the end of the day.
     
  25. THE WIDGE

    THE WIDGE Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking about new springs, revalving, and swaybar upgrade for my16 turbo4 razor from shock therapy. How does his work compare and what kind of pricing
     
  26. pronstar

    pronstar President, Dallas Chapter

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    Sounds like you cooked the seals.
    I did that on 2-inch Bilstein 5160s and King 2.0’s on my Ram...high speed fire roads, within minutes.

    So the added cooling with more oil is a good side benefit


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  27. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Yep. I had it pinned for minutes through a washboarded wash early in the day. Rear shocks were barely warm, fronts could touch for about a second, after resting for awhile. Pretty much knew I was buying the 2.5s at that point.. then I hit another washboard section for minutes... again and they said FU :)
     
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  28. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    Don't get all crazy, i got a set of stockers ready to go lol
     
  29. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    @boatnam2

    Do you know the part numbers off your front springs by chance? I am pretty sure I can reuse my current Eibach springs, but want to be sure. Yours look like 3 inch springs, maybe 12 inches and 6 inches in length.. and that is what I have now on my stock shocks.
     
  30. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    I can look Friday when I get to the river for you.
     
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  31. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Thank you. So I spoke to Ed and he is setting me up a set of 2.5 front shocks next week!

    We believe we can reuse my front springs as I have a 6 inch and a 12 inch Eibach spring now up front. He usually uses a 6 inch and a 10 inch spring, which is why I would love to know what is on yours (probably 6 & 10). Based on your picture above, it looks like there is room for the 12 inch springs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  32. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Pretty similar. Take the sway bar out of the picture for a minute.

    Springs are gonna be $700+ for the dual rate "kit". for the Turbo, depending on who yo go though. You can get the springs cheaper if you get all the parts for the crossovers, and just get springs elsewhere though. I think you could get this closer to $600 if you DIY.

    Ed will revalve what you have for $350 per pair so $700 total. So at a minimum you are at around $1400 with springs at a revalve. If you want the 2.5 fronts instead, add another ~$800. Ed says the 2.0s are not that great, depending on how hard you run it, that is your call.

    You can get the Eibach adjustable rear sway bar for $240. That is the bar only, so if you want stronger endlinks, or already have them they can be reused. The Eibach rear bar with the sway bar brace AND the solid endlinks is $450. Without the braces it is like $330.

    The Shock Therapy rear bar is $550, without braces. I'd likely go Eibach either way.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  33. THE WIDGE

    THE WIDGE Well-Known Member

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    Hoping someone can have some input on this. I was planning on shock replacement and calving on my razor turbo 4. Then Saturday I drove my brother in laws new can am 4 seater. This thing ate up the woops and was soooo smooth. My ass end iin my razor bounces all over which doesn’t happen in can am. Will this go away with listed upgrades and ride comparable to the can am, or will it just be better than stock and still Ot eat woops like can am. Thx
     
  34. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    I don’t have the RZR experience others have, but my car does not bounce or bottom out at all. It soaks up everything but small/tight washboards, of which I need to speed up to get on top of and then it smooths out.

    New springs will take care of a lot of the issues.
     
  35. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    647AD40D-0B3B-43C2-B786-76DCEDF07C87.jpeg 136AE5F6-2675-4EC7-80FF-13F333851757.jpeg AAF52218-8523-4B6B-B9B0-E2F0A8A1B47D.jpeg 60D30099-0DC0-4AA8-B9AE-4C168ED9FD60.jpeg Well I picked up my 2.5 fronts from Ed today. We were able to re use my Eibach 12 inch and 6 inch springs. Normally he goes with a 10 inch spring on the front, so we changed the lower spring perch to the lower profile “plate” style that is run on the rear and had to do a little math on his preload settings. You can see in the pictures the differences in the lower spring perch.

    He advised me that this rear plate perch could hit some aftermarket upper arms, in which case I may have to go back to the taller cup style lower perch and possibly a smaller spring. Without the smaller spring I wouldn’t be able to lower the ride height if it ended up being too high. Odds are it would work ok, I’d just have very little adjustment.

    We should be going to try them out in about 10 days!
     
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  36. Hammer

    Hammer Well-Known Member

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    How did you get your shocks before me? Lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  37. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Magic! Lol. I think because he does all the fronts at once and I called at the right time? He just did the fronts. I’m going to have him do the rears to match after the new year. That way everything is 100% fresh and adjustments are consistent.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  38. Hammer

    Hammer Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Mine will be done tomorrow. Also picked up Ruff stuff specialties radius rods


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  39. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    I think you’ll be happy with the changes.

    The 2.5 fronts are actually lighter than the 2.0s too.
     
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  40. boatnam2

    boatnam2 Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm going to get the sway bar and end links, Maybe shock therapy or walker evans, probably get the limit straps also for front, my set up seems to be topping out in front quit often. There is only one set of decent sand whoops were I ride but I can run them pretty much wide open if my girl isn't in the car lol.
     
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  41. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    I will say the walker sway bar links really helped in the desert. It freed up the car just enough. The car leans a little more going into high speed corners, but stops when the walker links top out. For the dunes it is probably not optimal however.

    I still have the stock rear bar, I don’t feel like a front is needed. Ed confirmed that, he said with the new springs and shock setup you likely wont need a sway bar in the front.

    I may still do the Eibach rear sway bar to see if it is helpful.
     
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  42. Hammer

    Hammer Well-Known Member

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    IMG_3253.jpg

    Time to put her back together. New fronts and re sprung/valved the rears. Also picked up a sway bar link. Ed told me you get a little more body roll if you run two. Just put one on the drivers side.

    IMG_3258.jpg

    Looking forward to putting the Rzr through its paces and see the differences between now and stock.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  43. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Awesome!

    Yep with one link you get half the effect. I keep a stock rear link in my tool box to tune it if needed.
     
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  44. Hammer

    Hammer Well-Known Member

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    IMG_3279.jpg
    9DF6B698-95CC-4403-B8CE-6B4D7FE093DF.jpg IMG_3280.jpg

    Done deal! Thanks for the connection Jeff!!!
    Can’t wait to put her through the paces.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  45. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    0AB3345C-73A5-472F-A193-CC29C0A9692A.jpeg Quick update:

    New front shocks are awesome. They definitely soak up high speed large bumps better. Mid to low speed stuff is not much different than my revalved 2.0 shocks so far. Have not yet tested them on washboards yet, I only got a few hours on them up in the Stoddard Wells area so far.

    Very satisfied overall.

    Also I had some question about the increased ride height over my previous setup, Ed said that was normal. It seems to have settled closer to where it was before after running it in the dirt with a couple passengers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  46. aaronschiada

    aaronschiada Well-Known Member

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    what are your opinions on Shock Therapy? Not trying to hijack....but i have an appointment with them next week.
     
  47. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    They are good. Some people won’t do business with them because of some past controversies. Shock Therapy did the original setup on my car, worked very well.
     
  48. aaronschiada

    aaronschiada Well-Known Member

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    cool...thanks man. i asked them bout going to a 2.5 up front, they said its not necessary.
     
  49. LargeOrangeFont

    LargeOrangeFont Steers With Throttle

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    Yea that is their general stance. The 2.0s to get very hot when you work them hard. For cruising with the family, 2.0s are just fine.
     
  50. aaronschiada

    aaronschiada Well-Known Member

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    got it...thanks
     

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