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22 Schiada cap job...

Rattle Can Lou

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This is kind of a tech question...I am capping a 22 ft Schiada and I have capped boats before...but of course this boat is special and needs to done correctly. I am being told that a rope strand glass is the best to use and I am really struggling to find any correct info on "rope strand fiberglass"...don't have room on this boat for errors...any help would be appreciated..

Mike

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HOOTER SLED-

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Gelcoater to the white courtesy phone please. :D
 

RiverDave

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This is kind of a tech question...I am capping a 22 ft Schiada and I have capped boats before...but of course this boat is special and needs to done correctly. I am being told that a rope strand glass is the best to use and I am really struggling to find any correct info on "rope strand fiberglass"...don't have room on this boat for errors...any help would be appreciated..

Mike

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Wish I had some advice for you Lou.. I'll call Schiada in the AM and get some answers, but I know a lot of CAP jobs even at shops end up cracking down the road if they aren't done right. A lot of new boat mfg's won't warranty hulls with caps as well.

RD
 

DtB

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what happened to the thread where lous brother was putting the sloped transom on the day cruiser I can't find it Thanks
 

doubleeagle

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I usually use cloth tape. Layer over layer in different widths. It comes in 1" 2" 3" widths on a roll Build coat with sanding resin after reaching approx shape, shape and sand. There is a good example of this in The new to Spectra build tread page 4.

I have used the glass strand method also Using a single pieces of roving strands pulled out of a strip of Woven Roving. Did not like it as well harder to get shape uniform and ended up having to fill a lot more to get that round shape. Cap ended up looking kind of Squarish or blockish.

I have also used mat cut into strips similar to the Cloth method Seem to take a lot longer and was a mess trying to get it layed up but end result worked out. I perfer the cloth method and there is no stronger way to cap when done correctly it will not crack

Sent you a PM with my phone # if you want give me a call I can explain entire process if you like
 

Rattle Can Lou

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Thanks Mike...I hope I don't have to call...I ordered the tape today and now I have to decide to use Epoxy or Vinylester...I have both but of course the epoxy is more..
 

doubleeagle

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Thanks Mike...I hope I don't have to call...I ordered the tape today and now I have to decide to use Epoxy or Vinylester...I have both but of course the epoxy is more..
To be honest make life easy on yourself the boat is bonded on the inside with Vinylester and the layup is more than likely Vinylester it sands easy and if you end up having to fudge a little with a flairing compound (Bondo) :D:D sticks a hell of a lot better to Vinylester.
Another point is you might consider using Just old fashion Polyester Resin (ortho) instead of Vinylester has worked well for me for the last 45 years but I have always been a cheap f##k.
Just a couple more bits use cabsyil paste to fill the actual parting line also mix wax with your final build coats over the cloth.
 

ace one

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Thanks Mike...I hope I don't have to call...I ordered the tape today and now I have to decide to use Epoxy or Vinylester...I have both but of course the epoxy is more..
I have capped several boats in the past and have had good luck with the vinylester resin, it has a better secondary bond. What ever you do do not use epoxy resin if your going to cap it in gel coat, the gel coat will not bond to the epoxy resin. I have used the cloth material and I have also used x-mat. You will also want to make sure you prefill the small gap between the deck and bottom before you start applying the glass, no voids behind the glass at all. I use 3m vinylester premium filler and then sand smooth, another issue can be that when the manufacture originally glassed the inside deck/hull joint they did not put enough glass and there could be a few areas that could use some more. Good luck with it and if you have any questions feel free to give me a call. 707 588-9100
 

Rattle Can Lou

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Thanks for all the help...I did fill the seam already and now I just need to make a little trough in the seam...the actual seam area is flat on the 22 and it will not look right if I try to round that area too much...the flatty's I have done have been a little more self explanatory...
 

jmeads

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Thanks for all the help...I did fill the seam already and now I just need to make a little trough in the seam...the actual seam area is flat on the 22 and it will not look right if I try to round that area too much...the flatty's I have done have been a little more self explanatory...
Any updates or pictures RCL
 

Rattle Can Lou

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I'm sorry...no progress except I finished the grinding..I've got a nice consistent concave all around the boat..I will take pic tomorrow.
I have way over thought this process..which I tend to do. From trying to do what Kornowski does to what Rick King did when he worked at some manufacturer back in the 70's...so my order was for 1" carbon fiber..I'm going to go around it probably four times with this. I've worked with the carbon product before and the lack of itch is appealing..I will then take pics
 

Backlash

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RCL,

As ACE ONE stated above, you may have issues with the finish of the cap if you are using the epoxy resin for the carbon fiber cloth. Some people will say that gelcoat will not adhere to the epoxy resin, and some people will tell you it will adhere just fine. Some will say to use a vinylester resin when working with CF and then again, some people will tell you to only use epoxy resin when working with CF. It's all so confusing! What's a brother to do??

:D

I think the carbon fiber may be a bit overkill in this particular application as epoxy resin and CF are typically used in applications where strength and weight savings are of utmost importance. If it's a 22' Schiada, we all know it isn't a "Fly weight" hull. Using the stronger cloth such as CF and by using less resin reduces the overall weight in a product that is overly strong and fairly stiff. And typically, the epoxy resin and CF are used in the construction of composites and when vacuum bagging is the method of layup.

If this was a job I was going to complete, I would have probably used the vinyl ester resin and "Normal" fiberglass cloth and a typical layup schedule as if doing a hull repair. If the final finish on the hull will be gelcoat and you don't have stock in 3M sandpaper, I would go that route. Then again, I aint' RCL. :D

Either way, I'm looking forward to the pictures and cant wait to see the progress and the finished product.

Thank you for including us in this project.

Henry
 

Rattle Can Lou

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I have used the vinylester and CF before and it worked great..pinholes are always an issue with CF but that's easily overcome with correct filler. I like learning and you are surely right when we say overkill..and CF is expensive...but I'm excited about using it and don't expect too many difficulties...fingers crossed..

and anytime you wanna be RCL..you are more than welcome...I'll tell the wife...lol
 

doubleeagle

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If nothing else it will give you a little practical experience working with carbon fiber. Who knows there maybe a set of stringers or floors in your future :D
 

Rattle Can Lou

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Hey Guys...thanks for following the progress and sorry it's slow..
So I used vinylester resin and bi directional mat fiberglass..here are some photos...

Here is a photo of the seam filled between deck and bottom. I think it's essential to fill this gap..I used a Lord product called EZ100. It is a catalyzed epoxy we use for bonding. It comes in a tube that mixes in a tip and is easy to get into a seam like that.

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Ready for the ugly part...putting the glass on..

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Cut into strips...

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I pull the mat apart and make two pieces out of one..this makes getting the resin through it much easier. When you get first layer saturated lay the second piece on it and roll it out with metal resin roller and you usually have enough resin. You don't want too much resin.

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Went around boat three different times...you can't do seven layers at one go round. So I have plenty of thickness.

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Rattle Can Lou

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[video=youtube;3AbpQEIDvBY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AbpQEIDvBY[/video]
 

Hammer

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Not bad for a self proclaimed "dumb ass" :D subscribed.
 

tony

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Thats looking real nice can't wait to see how it comes out???:thumbup:
 

Rattle Can Lou

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I'm so sorry that I didn't keep this up...it was just such a slow process and boring...
I did not have money to get the boat gelled...but I knew it had to be gelcoat..so I went on the fact finding mission. Of course I own a body shop so that gives me a distinct advantage over most DIY guys...but to get the results I wanted...I needed intel. Durability of finish was number one priority. My first objective was to make sure that Duratec Sunshield would work over automotive basecoat. I bought some fiberglass gel siding from a motorhome and went to work with different experiments..using both solvent based basecoat and waterborn basecoat. Sprayed out panels and applied gel clear..or sunshield. Could not get it to delam...no way no how...in fact busted the siding...this all took weeks to do..different cure rates and time for testing...the reason for going into uncharted territory was color hold out. The color in original gel had faded terribly..it was a cool deep maroon that had died back so bad it turned gray..I didn't want that and knew that the automotive base would not fade like that..gel is different..not near the UV protection..that's why all the work on color. The ONLY issue was sanding and buffing...Holy Shit is this clear tough..I actually paid a guy almost 2600.00 to buff it. It was worth every penny considering what it would have cost me out of town...if you have any questions fire away. The boat is badass...tough to get great pics because the fricken boat is big...

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Rattle Can Lou

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Thanks guys...

It's gotta be right so I can sit at the big table at Fox's...lol 531 TT motor on the way...then the fricken interior..damn this is taking some time....

and it eats cubic change...like large green paper change..if you catch my drift.......................:yikes
 

wsuwrhr

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Are you crying?

There is no crying in baseball.

Brian

Thanks guys...

It's gotta be right so I can sit at the big table at Fox's...lol 531 TT motor on the way...then the fricken interior..damn this is taking some time....

and it eats cubic change...like large green paper change..if you catch my drift.......................:yikes
 

tony

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Thanks guys...

It's gotta be right so I can sit at the big table at Fox's...lol 531 TT motor on the way...then the fricken interior..damn this is taking some time....

and it eats cubic change...like large green paper change..if you catch my drift.......................:yikes
Whos doing the motor?
 

SuperJet

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So the clear gel worked over an automotive base? That is one of my biggest questions that no one could really answer.... I have a booth and build custom cars and have been wanting to paint my Sanger with automotive paint but wanted a gel tough clear(doesn't really exist that I know of).....
 

shan

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Thanks guys...

It's gotta be right so I can sit at the big table at Fox's...lol 531 TT motor on the way...then the fricken interior..damn this is taking some time....

and it eats cubic change...like large green paper change..if you catch my drift.......................:yikes
Nice work Louis. You know where the real big table is...
 

Rattle Can Lou

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So the clear gel worked over an automotive base? That is one of my biggest questions that no one could really answer.... I have a booth and build custom cars and have been wanting to paint my Sanger with automotive paint but wanted a gel tough clear(doesn't really exist that I know of).....
Just google duratec sunshield. I've already done the work for you. This stuff is so nice. It is the clear they shoot in mold for carbon fiber. Spray your base over 320 sanding a clear away...but a little advise for you...mix mix mix and mix more. It catalyzes with resin type catalyst and you gotta haul ass...so I had two guys spraying and one guy mixing..call me if you want more info...208 863 2975

cut and buff is brutal...brutal

Oh shit, I'm sorry...it does not work on Jet Botes...lol
 

Rattle Can Lou

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Whos doing the motor?
Well, its a collaboration between Mike Montgomery here is Boise and Tom Scahill will come and do the dyno work for me. Carson B has been involved but he is dealing with motor builder. Carson has had his hands all over it...Race Aero stuff with updated everything...and if it sounds like I don't know nothing...it's because I'm the mushroom of the group in this deal...lol

I built a great blower motor...it was 1165 HP on pump gas..10-71 and all the cool stuff...brand new...but this build has taken so long that I changed my mind and wanted a flat hatch and quieter...hence selling blower motor and TT the thing..
 

rivrrts429

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Well, its a collaboration between Mike Montgomery here is Boise and Tom Scahill will come and do the dyno work for me. Carson B has been involved but he is dealing with motor builder. Carson has had his hands all over it...Race Aero stuff with updated everything...and if it sounds like I don't know nothing...it's because I'm the mushroom of the group in this deal...lol

I built a great blower motor...it was 1165 HP on pump gas..10-71 and all the cool stuff...brand new...but this build has taken so long that I changed my mind and wanted a flat hatch and quieter...hence selling blower motor and TT the thing..

Hanging hair dryers off your motor so you can hear birds chirping is a sign of getting older

Amazing work! I can't wait to see the finished product. Stellar job
 

lenmann

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Wow, the boat looks amazing Lou. The woodgrain and maroon are a classic and classy combination, elegant even.

How did the Fiber Tech work for regaining/finishing the body line post cap lamination? How did you maintain a consistent radius and blend at the cap to hull joint all the way around?

Thanks for documenting the process, I'm a committed do it your-selfer and can see a cap job some day in my future so i appreciate the insights.
 

Rattle Can Lou

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The fiber tech is an awesome product..tough as steel. I think the secret to this cap job is a 30" hard long block made by 3M Marine division. This is a tool that will not let you screw up..It's like a lie detector for boners that try body work. The biggest challenge was getting the nice round edge. It's tough to do when the boat is square edged. What ended up happening is while blocking it slowly rounded the top edge of the deck. These boats have so much glass that you could do a little of that and be fine. The other issue was to try and keep the sanding off the cap gel color switch area...in other words all I wanted to paint was the maroon..but I did get scratches down there that were hard to avoid...so I had to shoot a little color on the off white anyway...

I love the color with the wood grain...it does look classy. I sure fought with myself over updated paint or leave it 1983..I'm glad I went with the latter..wife loves it too...she just wants it done...lol
 

aaronschiada

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so whens the expected done date? shes a classy piece. i love the wood grain.
 

Rattle Can Lou

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I really don't know...the interior is the problem. So I need to get the boat assembled and then everything done and running..wired, plumbed and all that good stuff...then make it to Havasu or Schiada to get interior done. Schiada wants 4-5 months I do believe...and ARTGO is like 90 days..suffice it to say..next summer maybe...but it would be late summer at best..
 

SBMech

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Wow.

Your boat looks amazing!

Props for the classic lines and woodgrain, I love that shit:thumbsup:D
 

Gelcoater

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This is great to read,I dig threads like this.:thumbsup

Cool seeing you gel over paint.We played with that some years ago with mixed results.Different clear gel.
They were doing some cap work and logo in paint then using Valspar TX2 over it.Sometimes it was fine,others it would buckle the auto base.

I've not heard of this particular clear and will have to look into it.Currently for in the mold exposed carbon I'm using the Duratechnologies lo hap high performance clear.It does have UV protectant but isn't truly "clear".
 

Backlash

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RCL that turned our gorgeous!! Nicely done! ;) The color combo is spot on and that clear looks awfully shiny! ;) Badass for sure!!
 

Rattle Can Lou

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This is great to read,I dig threads like this.:thumbsup

Cool seeing you gel over paint.We played with that some years ago with mixed results.Different clear gel.
They were doing some cap work and logo in paint then using Valspar TX2 over it.Sometimes it was fine,others it would buckle the auto base.

I've not heard of this particular clear and will have to look into it.Currently for in the mold exposed carbon I'm using the Duratechnologies lo hap high performance clear.It does have UV protectant but isn't truly "clear".

You for sure need to look at this...like I said earlier..lot's of experimentation to make sure I wasn't wasting my time and I did it in conjunction with Danny Bell in LA...but I am so happy...and yes this clear is sparkling clear..and compared to automotive clear...of high quality...this stuff is free..
 

dryhoze1

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Nice work Lou'is..

Bigger the boat,smaller the C*?k.
But you already knew that. Lol
 

Rattle Can Lou

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Hey Hoser...not long till you see me...and I don't take kindly to small unit comments...it offends me..and I hate being offended..

no wonder your wife calls you dryhoze..no game
 

Rattle Can Lou

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Not really...motor is built and having turbo's remounted and carb linkage done and new motor plates...then it can go together. Did meet Nordic Thane at Billy B show in Feb and I think they are my interior guys...great guy.
 
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