24hrs of Lemons Motor

[Streetmoto]

Hey guys, posted this in Engine Builds but though it might get a little more visibility here.

My brother and some of our friends finally decided to do a 24hrs of Lemons Race, something we've talked about for quite a while. For those that haven't heard, it's an endurance race made of $500 cars (no restriction of how much you spend on safety equipment). We ended up with a 2001 ford ranger with a 5 speed and 2.5l 4cyl w/ 200k miles. Looking for feedback on making it live the 10hrs of racing on the first day and 8hrs for the second.

Here is what we're thinking so far:
Rings/bearings, timing belt, new plugs/wires/hoses etc, new O2 sensor. The most common motor issue at these races is overheating/blown head gasket so we're planning on adding a huge radiator and big separate oil cooler to keep the temps down. When new, the motor made 119hp at 5k rpms and 146 ft-lbs at 3k so there's no need for us to wind it up at any time (doing research to see if there's an easy way to add a 5k rev limiter). We have a laundry list of spares that we want to bring, an extra long block being one of them. Are there any additives or specific oils we should run or any other suggestions you guys can think of that might help it the motor survive the full 2 days?

Thanks in advance! Sean

 

[RiverDave]

How do they limit how much you spend to make it live?

RD

 

[Husqy510]

Prior to the race your car is evaluated by a judge who determines how much they think you spent over the $500 budget. Your team is then penalized laps.

It's really not about winning, as much as finishing and having fun.

 

[Streetmoto]

How do they limit how much you spend to make it live?

RD

You're penalized laps based on how much more than $500 they think you spent on the car but like I said on the other post, in this part of the tech inspection bribery is heavily encouraged so dropping a $20 on the ground behind him or leaving a 12 pack of his favorite beer in the passenger seat goes a long way in minimizing he number of penalty laps the judge might give you. At the end of the day, like my brother (Husqy510) mentioned, we're just doing this to have some fun with zero intention of "winning".

 

[C-2]

That's awesome

 

[coolchange]

Willow Springs? Better get busy.

 

[Mandelon]

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

If you need another team member for whatever reason, I'm down. Done quite a few Lemons races, have all my own gear. If you are doing Willow Springs.. I know it like the back of my hand.


Run a slightly thicker oil, 10W40 or 20W50. Castrol GTX or even Mobil 1 is more than adequate. You don't need to add any additives. The biggest thing is going to be CHECKING the oil at your fuel stops. If you are really worried, do an oil change in between day 1 and 2. You may SLIGHTLY overfill it as well, but see what it is doing.. If it is not consuming oil, I'd fill it with the recommended amount. If it drinks oil, consider overfilling a bit.

Oil cooler is going to help, but don't go nuts with a giant oil cooler, you don't want the oil too cold either if it is a really cold or wet day.

If you can put an oil temp gauge somewhere that will be optimal, and bring some cardboard to block part of the oil cooler if it is cold or rainy.

Put fresh trans fluid in it, and if you can build a scoop to funnel some cooling air to the transmission. Those T5s are pretty weak. Instruct the team to take their time shifting, and be consistent and deliberate with shifts. It's a 2 day race.. there is no need to bang gears. You can wipe that trans out in an hour if you abuse it.

Also DUCT THE RADIATOR. You can have the biggest radiator and oil cooler but they won't work that well unless you funnel the available air into it. Also consider adding fresh air duct or two pointed at the driver. The fumes can get bad in certain situations. This can literally be a piece of garden drain tube from the Home Depot racing department.

Any questions, drop me a line!

 

[traquer]

If you need another team member, for whatever reason, I'm down. Done quite a few Lemons races, have all my own gear.

Run a thicker oil, 10W40 or 20W50. You don't need to add any additives. The biggest thing is going to be CHECKING the oil at your fuel stops.

Oil cooler is going to help, but don't go nuts with a giant oil cooler, you don't want the oil too cold either.

If you can put an oil temp gauge somewhere, and bring some cardboard to block part of the oil cooler if it is cold or rainy.

Put fresh trans fluid in it, and if you can build a scoop to funnel some cooling air to the transmission. Those T5s are pretty weak. Instruct the team to take their time shifting, and be consistent and deliberate with shifts. It's a 2 day race.. there is no need to bang gears.

This! Most important part is to have fun!
I miss my Miata, I'm getting back out there soon. Lemons and Lucky Dog are fun. I will probably build a specE30 car.

 

[obnoxious001]

Sean

If you get into the engine, measure bearing clearances to help determine what oil to run. Probably should check the big end of the rods to make sure they are not too far out of round with that many miles. I personally like Penn Grade (Brad Penn) oil, and for a racing application would lean towards a straight weight oil, once again, depending on bearing clearance.

Maybe leak the engine down prior to tear down if it's not already apart, probably may want to consider looking at the valves and at minimum hand lapping, but after 200K miles probably time to get them ground.

One thing that will be happening is that oil will be tossed around the pan, not sure if you can work some sort of a budget way of keeping it near the pickup to try and keep a constant supply of oil to the bearings.

Been a long time since I opened up a T5, but seems like they factory spec for oil was ATF,, I am thinking something else would be better, would maybe do some research on that too.

One of the reasons I like Penn Grade oil so much for the marine engines that I build is that it's very tenacious. It stays on parts well, sort of like the old STP oil treatment. If it were mine to do, I would call some of the oil companies and ask what they have that would work in that trans. I am sure you may get a variety of answers.

 

[JDub24]

So cool. It will be fun as hell. I have a couple friends that keep kicking around the idea of doing this someday as well.
With that said call these guys. esslingeracing.com

No one knows the small Ford motors like they do. They might even donate to the cause with some gently used parts. Worth a call for sure.
Good luck and definitely start a thread please!!

Hey guys, posted this in Engine Builds but though it might get a little more visibility here.

My brother and some of our friends finally decided to do a 24hrs of Lemons Race, something we've talked about for quite a while. For those that haven't heard, it's an endurance race made of $500 cars (no restriction of how much you spend on safety equipment). We ended up with a 2001 ford ranger with a 5 speed and 2.5l 4cyl w/ 200k miles. Looking for feedback on making it live the 10hrs of racing on the first day and 8hrs for the second.

Here is what we're thinking so far:
Rings/bearings, timing belt, new plugs/wires/hoses etc, new O2 sensor. The most common motor issue at these races is overheating/blown head gasket so we're planning on adding a huge radiator and big separate oil cooler to keep the temps down. When new, the motor made 119hp at 5k rpms and 146 ft-lbs at 3k so there's no need for us to wind it up at any time (doing research to see if there's an easy way to add a 5k rev limiter). We have a laundry list of spares that we want to bring, an extra long block being one of them. Are there any additives or specific oils we should run or any other suggestions you guys can think of that might help it the motor survive the full 2 days?

Thanks in advance! Sean

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Sean

If you get into the engine, measure bearing clearances to help determine what oil to run. Probably should check the big end of the rods to make sure they are not too far out of round with that many miles. I personally like Penn Grade (Brad Penn) oil, and for a racing application would lean towards a straight weight oil, once again, depending on bearing clearance.

Maybe leak the engine down prior to tear down if it's not already apart, probably may want to consider looking at the valves and at minimum hand lapping, but after 200K miles probably time to get them ground.

One thing that will be happening is that oil will be tossed around the pan, not sure if you can work some sort of a budget way of keeping it near the pickup to try and keep a constant supply of oil to the bearings.

Been a long time since I opened up a T5, but seems like they factory spec for oil was ATF,, I am thinking something else would be better, would maybe do some research on that too.

One of the reasons I like Penn Grade oil so much for the marine engines that I build is that it's very tenacious. It stays on parts well, sort of like the old STP oil treatment. If it were mine to do, I would call some of the oil companies and ask what they have that would work in that trans. I am sure you may get a variety of answers.

Great point on the oil pan baffling,

Some more thoughts for the OP.

Keep in mind you aren’t running very sticky tires, you won’t generate a ton of grip.

I’d recommend 300ish treadwear tires if you have not bought your tires yet. If this is the first time you are running the car, and you just want to finish, You don’t need the max grip 200 treadwear tires. Those tires will just expose every braking, suspension, oiling, and cooling weaknesses in your car with more grip. If you think the truck is well sorted however, then go for it.

With regards to the T5, the recommendation was Dexron II, which is no longer available, and then Dexron III.

I’d do Redline D4 in the transmission, or Redline High Temp ATF, which is a bit more viscous.

 

[obnoxious001]

With that said call these guys. esslingeracing.com

No one knows the small Ford motors like they do. They might even donate to the cause with some gently used parts. Worth a call for sure.
Good luck and definitely start a thread please!!

Those guys are pretty proud of their parts. I rebuilt one of their aluminum midget race car engines and called them. I ended up sourcing some of the stuff elsewhere after they wouldn't sell me the set of bearings they had in stock(Several days later I called to see why they had not arrived and they said they needed them for another job. Thanks guys for the heads up!)

I followed their specs that were originally supplied with the engine, and that engine made it through the Chili Bowl that year, and still leaked down at less than 2% if I recall.

 

[bilz]

My friends did that a few years back. S black z car called the deadliest catch. I like the theme concepts.

 

[JDub24]

Proud for sure and not cheap but as you stated their motors can take a pretty good beating and continue to live. My good friend had one completely built by them for their “shop truck” and they beat the piss out of it. It think it made 225 hp on the dyno with pump gas. He and the guys at his shop tried to blow it up to no avail. The only other item they did was take the rear end to Hoopers to make sure it would live through thousands of high rpm clutch dumps...

Those guys are pretty proud of their parts. I rebuilt one of their aluminum midget race car engines and called them. I ended up sourcing some of the stuff elsewhere after they wouldn't sell me the set of bearings they had in stock(Several days later I called to see why they had not arrived and they said they needed them for another job. Thanks guys for the heads up!)

I followed their specs that were originally supplied with the engine, and that engine made it through the Chili Bowl that year, and still leaked down at less than 2% if I recall.

 

[rrrr]

Those guys are pretty proud of their parts. I rebuilt one of their aluminum midget race car engines and called them. I ended up sourcing some of the stuff elsewhere after they wouldn't sell me the set of bearings they had in stock(Several days later I called to see why they had not arrived and they said they needed them for another job. Thanks guys for the heads up!)

I followed their specs that were originally supplied with the engine, and that engine made it through the Chili Bowl that year, and still leaked down at less than 2% if I recall.

It's been over ten years since I was involved with a USAC team, and back then Esslinger was getting $37,000 for one of their midget bullets if you didn't have a sponsorship deal with them.

That was a big pill to swallow when a USAC feature win paid $800. Toyota has the hot engine now, I don't know what they cost.

As for the LeMons racer, the engine is important, but don't forget the rest of the mechanicals. Wheel bearings, brakes, U-joints, rear end, clutch, shocks, are all going to need attention.

For sure flush the brake system, put in fresh fluid, and install new frictions. Inspect the lines and hoses. A brake system failure will end your day. Definitely check the U-joints for slop and noise.

 

[bonesfab]

i have done this with a few friends. a buddy is pretty big into It. they have been to the big east coast tracks. It’s a blast but It is a workout.

 

[RiverDave]

If you need another team member for whatever reason, I'm down. Done quite a few Lemons races, have all my own gear. If you are doing Willow Springs.. I know it like the back of my hand.


Run a slightly thicker oil, 10W40 or 20W50. Castrol GTX or even Mobil 1 is more than adequate. You don't need to add any additives. The biggest thing is going to be CHECKING the oil at your fuel stops. If you are really worried, do an oil change in between day 1 and 2. You may SLIGHTLY overfill it as well, but see what it is doing.. If it is not consuming oil, I'd fill it with the recommended amount. If it drinks oil, consider overfilling a bit.

Oil cooler is going to help, but don't go nuts with a giant oil cooler, you don't want the oil too cold either if it is a really cold or wet day.

If you can put an oil temp gauge somewhere that will be optimal, and bring some cardboard to block part of the oil cooler if it is cold or rainy.

Put fresh trans fluid in it, and if you can build a scoop to funnel some cooling air to the transmission. Those T5s are pretty weak. Instruct the team to take their time shifting, and be consistent and deliberate with shifts. It's a 2 day race.. there is no need to bang gears. You can wipe that trans out in an hour if you abuse it.

Also DUCT THE RADIATOR. You can have the biggest radiator and oil cooler but they won't work that well unless you funnel the available air into it. Also consider adding fresh air duct or two pointed at the driver. The fumes can get bad in certain situations. This can literally be a piece of garden drain tube from the Home Depot racing department.

Any questions, drop me a line!

add Lucas!

 

[Bowtiepower00]

LS swap lol

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

LS swap lol

They would nail you for that. Although an SBF swap would probably weasel through.

 

[pkrrvr619]

This thread got me reading up on this race as it seems like a great time. I like how they have the ability to "claim" a car after the race to keep everyone above board as best they can.

 

[Streetmoto]

If you need another team member for whatever reason, I'm down. Done quite a few Lemons races, have all my own gear. If you are doing Willow Springs.. I know it like the back of my hand.


Run a slightly thicker oil, 10W40 or 20W50. Castrol GTX or even Mobil 1 is more than adequate. You don't need to add any additives. The biggest thing is going to be CHECKING the oil at your fuel stops. If you are really worried, do an oil change in between day 1 and 2. You may SLIGHTLY overfill it as well, but see what it is doing.. If it is not consuming oil, I'd fill it with the recommended amount. If it drinks oil, consider overfilling a bit.

Oil cooler is going to help, but don't go nuts with a giant oil cooler, you don't want the oil too cold either if it is a really cold or wet day.

If you can put an oil temp gauge somewhere that will be optimal, and bring some cardboard to block part of the oil cooler if it is cold or rainy.

Put fresh trans fluid in it, and if you can build a scoop to funnel some cooling air to the transmission. Those T5s are pretty weak. Instruct the team to take their time shifting, and be consistent and deliberate with shifts. It's a 2 day race.. there is no need to bang gears. You can wipe that trans out in an hour if you abuse it.

Also DUCT THE RADIATOR. You can have the biggest radiator and oil cooler but they won't work that well unless you funnel the available air into it. Also consider adding fresh air duct or two pointed at the driver. The fumes can get bad in certain situations. This can literally be a piece of garden drain tube from the Home Depot racing department.

Any questions, drop me a line!

We didn't get a car purchased prior to the cutoff for Willow and we don't want to miss Billy B's deal in September (same weekend as Buttonwillow) so it's looking like we might make the 7hr drive up to Thunderhill. Thanks for all the cooling suggestions, we hadn't thought about the oil being too cold or ducting for the T5!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

We didn't get a car purchased prior to the cutoff for Willow and we don't want to miss Billy B's deal in September (same weekend as Buttonwillow) so it's looking like we might make the 7hr drive up to Thunderhill. Thanks for all the cooling suggestions, we hadn't thought about the oil being too cold or ducting for the T5!

No problem.

I've done the Thunderhill race, but it was when they did it in the winter. It will be a lot of fun. Good news is you have some time. Since that race is late May, I don't think you will have over cooling issues lol.

Since you do have some time I would highly suggest taking the truck to a track day locally before the race to shake it down and see how it runs.

Does the truck have and 8,8 in it? If so putting an limited slip diff in will be helpful, if it does not already have it.

 

[Streetmoto]

Sean

If you get into the engine, measure bearing clearances to help determine what oil to run. Probably should check the big end of the rods to make sure they are not too far out of round with that many miles. I personally like Penn Grade (Brad Penn) oil, and for a racing application would lean towards a straight weight oil, once again, depending on bearing clearance.

Maybe leak the engine down prior to tear down if it's not already apart, probably may want to consider looking at the valves and at minimum hand lapping, but after 200K miles probably time to get them ground.

One thing that will be happening is that oil will be tossed around the pan, not sure if you can work some sort of a budget way of keeping it near the pickup to try and keep a constant supply of oil to the bearings.

Been a long time since I opened up a T5, but seems like they factory spec for oil was ATF,, I am thinking something else would be better, would maybe do some research on that too.

One of the reasons I like Penn Grade oil so much for the marine engines that I build is that it's very tenacious. It stays on parts well, sort of like the old STP oil treatment. If it were mine to do, I would call some of the oil companies and ask what they have that would work in that trans. I am sure you may get a variety of answers.

Thanks for the suggestions, adding it all to the game plan! As for the oil supply, I just happen to have an Accusump that I was using to pre-oil one of my mod motors, will that suffice or am I better off modifying the oil pan to include some trap doors etc?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Thanks for the suggestions, adding it all to the game plan! As for the oil supply, I just happen to have an Accusump that I was using to pre-oil one of my mod motors, will that suffice or am I better off modifying the oil pan to include some trap doors etc?

I think you will be fine with the Accusump as an insurance policy. You aren't going to be making a ton of grip out there.

 

[Streetmoto]

No problem.

I've done the Thunderhill race, but it was when they did it in the winter. It will be a lot of fun. Good news is you have some time. Since that race is late May, I don't think you will have over cooling issues lol.

Since you do have some time I would highly suggest taking the truck to a track day locally before the race to shake it down and see how it runs.

Does the truck have and 8,8 in it? If so putting an limited slip diff in will be helpful, if it does not already have it.

It only has an open 7.5 right now. If budget/time allows the plan is to get an explorer 8.8 from the junk yard and narrow it by shortening the long side (I've narrowed 3 of these rear ends already, it's pretty easy once you have the jig). We've lowered the truck, installed some KYB Gas-Adjusts and plan on adding bigger sway bars but at the end of the day, we plan on keeping it very tame and slow. Not everyone on the team has experience on a track so for this first race our plan is to get our feet wet and try to make it survive. I'm sure there will be plenty of other slow cars out there that we can have our own 3-lap races with. Aside from getting the motor to last, our other bigger priority is safety so I'll be spending a lot of time/effort building the cage and plumbing the fire suppression system etc. As long as we exit the weekend with a truck that hasn't been wadded up into a ball of steel, we'll put more effort into power and handling for the next race on the following year!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It only has an open 7.5 right now. If budget/time allows the plan is to get an explorer 8.8 from the junk yard and narrow it by shortening the long side (I've narrowed 3 of these rear ends already, it's pretty easy once you have the jig). We've lowered the truck, installed some KYB Gas-Adjusts and plan on adding bigger sway bars but at the end of the day, we plan on keeping it very tame and slow. Not everyone on the team has experience on a track so for this first race our plan is to get our feet wet and try to make it survive. I'm sure there will be plenty of other slow cars out there that we can have our own 3-lap races with. Aside from getting the motor to last, our other bigger priority is safety so I'll be spending a lot of time/effort building the cage and plumbing the fire suppression system etc. As long as we exit the weekend with a truck that hasn't been wadded up into a ball of steel, we'll put more effort into power and handling for the next race on the following year!

Good plan!

 

[coolchange]

Hey guys, posted this in Engine Builds but though it might get a little more visibility here.

My brother and some of our friends finally decided to do a 24hrs of Lemons Race, something we've talked about for quite a while. For those that haven't heard, it's an endurance race made of $500 cars (no restriction of how much you spend on safety equipment). We ended up with a 2001 ford ranger with a 5 speed and 2.5l 4cyl w/ 200k miles. Looking for feedback on making it live the 10hrs of racing on the first day and 8hrs for the second.

Here is what we're thinking so far:
Rings/bearings, timing belt, new plugs/wires/hoses etc, new O2 sensor. The most common motor issue at these races is overheating/blown head gasket so we're planning on adding a huge radiator and big separate oil cooler to keep the temps down. When new, the motor made 119hp at 5k rpms and 146 ft-lbs at 3k so there's no need for us to wind it up at any time (doing research to see if there's an easy way to add a 5k rev limiter). We have a laundry list of spares that we want to bring, an extra long block being one of them. Are there any additives or specific oils we should run or any other suggestions you guys can think of that might help it the motor survive the full 2 days?

Thanks in advance! Sean

Looks like you just got a whole bunch of time to finish up.

 

[playdeep]

It's been over ten years since I was involved with a USAC team, and back then Esslinger was getting $37,000 for one of their midget bullets if you didn't have a sponsorship deal with them.

That was a big pill to swallow when a USAC feature win paid $800. Toyota has the hot engine now, I don't know what they cost.

As for the LeMons racer, the engine is important, but don't forget the rest of the mechanicals. Wheel bearings, brakes, U-joints, rear end, clutch, shocks, are all going to need attention.

For sure flush the brake system, put in fresh fluid, and install new frictions. Inspect the lines and hoses. A brake system failure will end your day. Definitely check the U-joints for slop and noise.

The Toyota midget 4 bangers are around $55k.
The other option is a (Gary)Stanton built SR11 which is about $45k.
It's insane.

 

[rrrr]

The Toyota midget 4 bangers are around $55k.
The other option is a (Gary)Stanton built SR11 which is about $45k.
It's insane.

Wow. That's nuts. I'm assuming Toyota has passed the 400 HP barrier.