WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

4 seat speed UTV

ONE-A-DAY

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Same amount of money, more fun, no plastic, and I can do 90% of the repairs and maintainancs myself. I can’t go there on the side by side thing, just doesn’t do it for me in the sand, but they are fun to use around town and trails in havasu, Although this speed deal has been interesting to follow from a business standpoint.

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Icky

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Heres my logic. If those machines in the picture are sitting like shown in the picture...
3 months for millrights to set them. 1 month over lap for electricians. They will be 3 to 4 months with conduit, wire and testing. Thats puts us at 6 months.
Then production. 2 months to work out bugs in automation.
Now at 8 months. Shipping, permits, insurance ratings, add another 2 months
Bam. Merry xmas.

Unless the machines are set with power already.

Beer for RR soon. Or not
If my guys installed stuff that slow, we'd be outta business. Electricians are usually a week or 2 behind equipment setting.
 

riverroyal

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If my guys installed stuff that slow, we'd be outta business. Electricians are usually a week or 2 behind equipment setting.
No way. A full assembly line, with conduit back to main electical room. Inspections blah blah
A full assembly line with 50 guys and it still wouldn't be 2 week.
 

rivrrts429

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Same amount of money, more fun, no plastic, and I can do 90% of the repairs and maintainancs myself. I can’t go there on the side by side thing, just doesn’t do it for me in the sand, but they are fun to use around town and trails in havasu, Although this speed deal has been interesting to follow from a business standpoint.

View attachment 990713

That’s a beautiful car but let’s be honest, it’s one dimensional. That car will never see any terrain beyond Glamis if you want it to continue to look beautiful.

Don’t get me wrong. I get it. I like my boats with a max of two seats sitting inches off the water with more HP than I truly need.

SxS owners are typically going to use them for a lot more than just Glamis. The RG cars will really shine in places like Havasu. It’s why RG has a shop in Havasu and not Glamis.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Heres my logic. If those machines in the picture are sitting like shown in the picture...
3 months for millrights to set them. 1 month over lap for electricians. They will be 3 to 4 months with conduit, wire and testing. Thats puts us at 6 months.
Then production. 2 months to work out bugs in automation.
Now at 8 months. Shipping, permits, insurance ratings, add another 2 months
Bam. Merry xmas.

Unless the machines are set with power already.

Beer for RR soon. Or not
Or the picture is simply a few months old :)

RG has been fairly transparent here and shown multiple modules for the chassis that were done on the machines.
 

Singleton

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If all goes as planned, I see folks starting to get cars around October month-end. But those will be purchased from a dealer. IMO, the dealer network will get deliveries before the deposit holders. Cost of raw materials has gone up and those initial deposits are going to be losers from a revenue standpoint. Cant built 1k cars losing money on each one and stay in business. Plus, new deposits (at a new higher price) will be taken once additional folks can put a hand on the car in a showroom and they will wait a season to get it.
 
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RiverDave

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If all goes as planned, I see folks starting to get cars around October month-end. But those will be purchased from a dealer. IMO, the dealer network will get deliveries before the deposit holders. Cost of raw materials has gone up and those initial deposits are going to be losers from a revenue standpoint. Cant built 1k cars losing money on each one and stay in business. Plus, new deposits (at a new higher price) will be taken once additional folks can put a hand on the car in a showroom and they will wait a season to get it.
lol.. they aren’t delivering to the dealers before they lower numbers.. the whole point of the numbers was to get your build slot.
 

riverroyal

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Question...is this SxS basically the same for az on street registration as others?
Will it be over 1800lbs for whatever the deal is with that.
Im assuming its no different. Follow same rules, turn signals, horn etc
 

ArizonaKevin

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Question...is this SxS basically the same for az on street registration as others?
Will it be over 1800lbs for whatever the deal is with that.
Im assuming its no different. Follow same rules, turn signals, horn etc
Definitely over 1800lb

My XX is 1816
 

cakemoto

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Question...is this SxS basically the same for az on street registration as others?
Will it be over 1800lbs for whatever the deal is with that.
Im assuming its no different. Follow same rules, turn signals, horn etc
I would believe so
 

v6toy4x

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Or the picture is simply a few months old :)

RG has been fairly transparent here and shown multiple modules for the chassis that were done on the machines.
I don't think it would be in RGs best interest to not show the most updated pictures, it would only add fuel to the fire, showing current conditions if infact they are much closer to production would be to his advantage--no?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Question...is this SxS basically the same for az on street registration as others?
Will it be over 1800lbs for whatever the deal is with that.
Im assuming its no different. Follow same rules, turn signals, horn etc
All the same. I thought I read the 1800 lb thing got moved up to 2000 lb in AZ?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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If all goes as planned, I see folks starting to get cars around October month-end. But those will be purchased from a dealer. IMO, the dealer network will get deliveries before the deposit holders. Cost of raw materials has gone up and those initial deposits are going to be losers from a revenue standpoint. Cant built 1k cars losing money on each one and stay in business. Plus, new deposits (at a new higher price) will be taken once additional folks can put a hand on the car in a showroom and they will wait a season to get it.
He is not going to be “loosing” any more money than he is loosing now producing no cars at all. These first cars sold directly from Speed did not have a dealer markup built in. That is why the direct to consumer prices were raised. Payment for the direct sale cars are due 30 days before delivery, so he is going to have some cash flow coming in. He’s not building these things with a 10% margin, it is probably closer to 30% initially, maybe down to 20% now on the initial cars. He is going to take less profit on the initial cars, sure. All his tooling and R&D costs are dropping significantly the more cars he sells. With 12k units “sold” so far, he has quadrupled his expectations for the first year. I’d bet he is going to be up to 20k units “sold” 60 days after these initial units hit the streets if there are not any big issues with them. He is going to make up the lowered margin per car with volume, and again expect the MSRP to go up.
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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I don't think it would be in RGs best interest to not show the most updated pictures, it would only add fuel to the fire, showing current conditions if infact they are much closer to production would be to his advantage--no?
Well many of these parts are being made overseas.. so he is probably very selective with what he is showing. Based on the info we have, one of 2 things are true -

1. Experts here are saying an assembly line is nearly a year away based on one picture and we have been fleeced.

2. Todd Romano says initial assembly line test cars are less than 60 days away, in which case things are being done behind the scenes that the public is not privy to.
 

Singleton

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He is not going to be “loosing” any money. These first cars sold directly from Speed did not have a dealer markup built in. That is why the direct to consumer prices were raised. Payment for the direct sale cars are due 30 days before delivery, so he is going to have some cash flow coming in. He’s not building these things with a 10% margin, it is probably closer to 30%. He is going to take less profit on the initial cars, sure. All his tooling and R&D costs are dropping significantly the more cars he sells. With 12k units “sold” so far, he has quadrupled his expectations for the first year. I’d bet he is going to be up to 20k units “sold” 60 days after these initial units hit the streets if there are not any big issues with them. He is going to make up the lowered margin per car with volume, and again expect the MSRP to go up.
So a 30k unit has 30% profit margin. Looking at the car, no way the build cost when you factor in overhead and a % of R&D is 21k. My gut says he is making less then 5k per car for those sold before the first price increase. When the car was at Morgan Motorsports 2 weeks ago, RG was around and one guy in my AZ Peace Trail group knows him from off-road racing. The question was asked about build cost and we were told much higher then planned. IMO, once the dealer network is up, the direct price will be maybe 5-7k less then the dealer price, but will have an extended wait time. Dealer builds will have priority over direct.

The pay for accessories in full and payment due 30 days before delivery is CA law. Once money is taken in full, if he misses that delivery the liability opens. I would go as far to say, the car is built pending shipment before he requests those final payments to avoid pissing off the wrong guy and facing a huge fraud lawsuit. Hell, I would go as far to say, his CFO has this planned out to maximize the loss on the business and they need to slow play 2021 deliveries to do that.

As I have stated, I like the car, could be a buyer once I can see one in person (and not the test model I saw). Yes, I will pay more, but I am OK with that. If this was a boat builder people would be throwing out the ‘Robbed Peter to pay Paul’ statement.
 

v6toy4x

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Well many of these parts are being made overseas.. so he is probably very selective with what he is showing. Based on the info we have, one of 2 things are true -

1. Experts here are saying an assembly line is nearly a year away based on one picture and we have been fleeced.

2. Todd Romano says initial assembly line test cars are less than 60 days away, in which case things are being done behind the scenes that the public is not privy to.
Agree, one side, the other side, reality in the middle.
No dog in the fight, just enjoying the real time perspective, never going to see this again!

I do have a serious question, you seem to be in the know.
Who is bankrolling him?
There is some serious money getting fronted here?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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So a 30k unit has 30% profit margin. Looking at the car, no way the build cost when you factor in overhead and a % of R&D is 21k. My gut says he is making less then 5k per car for those sold before the first price increase. When the car was at Morgan Motorsports 2 weeks ago, RG was around and one guy in my AZ Peace Trail group knows him from off-road racing. The question was asked about build cost and we were told much higher then planned. IMO, once the dealer network is up, the direct price will be maybe 5-7k less then the dealer price, but will have an extended wait time. Dealer builds will have priority over direct.

The pay for accessories in full and payment due 30 days before delivery is CA law. Once money is taken in full, if he misses that delivery the liability opens. I would go as far to say, the car is built pending shipment before he requests those final payments to avoid pissing off the wrong guy and facing a huge fraud lawsuit. Hell, I would go as far to say, his CFO has this planned out to maximize the loss on the business and they need to slow play 2021 deliveries to do that.

As I have stated, I like the car, could be a buyer once I can see one in person (and not the test model I saw). Yes, I will pay more, but I am OK with that. If this was a boat builder people would be throwing out the ‘Robbed Peter to pay Paul’ statement.
The build cost is much higher than planned due to a couple factors - building their own engine, and adding features because of demand over and above their expectations. They were expecting to make a couple thousand per year initially, as low as 400-500 in September 2019.

The R&D cost per unit drops the more units they sell. They said the R&D costs would be $21k per unit at their original production goals..they have quadrupled their original production goals.

He is absolutely making less on the first cars, he said that up front a year ago. His goal was to sell cars cheap to us initially for taking the risk, and let these first cars be his “marketing“ to introduce the brand.

He’s making huge margins on the option parts and warranty. That is where the bulk of the profit is per car on these initial cars.

I disagree on robbing Peter to pay Paul. The million or two in cash put down by a few thousand people pales in comparison to the half a billion of product orders out there. People have only put down $1500-$5k on a $32-$40k+ car.
 

HGP3

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The build cost is much higher than planned due to a couple factors - building their own engine, and adding features because of demand over and above their expectations. They were expecting to make a couple thousand per year initially, as low as 400-500 in September 2019.

The R&D cost per unit drops the more units they sell. They said the R&D costs would be $21k per unit at their original production goals..they have quadrupled their original production goals.

He is absolutely making less on the first cars, he said that up front a year ago. His goal was to sell cars cheap to us initially for taking the risk, and let these first cars be his “marketing“ to introduce the brand.

He’s making huge margins on the option parts and warranty. That is where the bulk of the profit is per car on these initial cars.

I disagree on robbing Peter to pay Paul. The million or two in cash put down by a few thousand people pales in comparison to the half a billion of product orders out there. People have only put down $1500-$5k on a $32-$40k+ car.
How much does SPEED pay you for marketing? 😋. Joking, obviously. I respect the amount of research you are putting into your purchase. I would do the same, and I am vicariously watching the process.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Agree, one side, the other side, reality in the middle.
No dog in the fight, just enjoying the real time perspective, never going to see this again!

I do have a serious question, you seem to be in the know.
Who is bankrolling him?
There is some serious money getting fronted here?
No idea. He seems pretty close to the Menard’s founder, but no idea what outside backing there is, if they are entirely self funding the development or what.

He had said they funded $8M for development, that was blown out of the water I’m sure, but so have sales.
 

2Driver

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Honesty, I can’t image the hurdles of putting a project like this together let alone with what has transpired in the past 13 months. To it off he is doing hour long streaming updates with a never ending enthusiast attitude.

Hope it all pans out for the guy.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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With the average pre-order deposit of 3250, and 5000 pre orders, that 16 million dollars.

Dan'l
I don’t think dealers are putting money down for orders like the direct sale cars.
 

Singleton

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I don’t think dealers are putting money down for orders like the direct sale cars.
Dealer will either be sell-in or sell-through. Most will be sell-in and will be required to purchase at dealer cost (net 30, 2) at time of delivery. Very unlikely dealer will be sell-through. Too much risk with that.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Dealer will either be sell-in or sell-through. Most will be sell-in and will be required to purchase at dealer cost (net 30, 2) at time of delivery. Very unlikely dealer will be sell-through. Too much risk with that.

Exactly. The majority of current orders are dealer orders (reservations might be a better word) and why there is not going to be any Peters to rob. Seems there is enough working capital to make it work, but they need to maintain reasonable speed to market. If there isn’t enough capital with the current sales trajectory and $500M in sales/orders out there to simply collect, it would not be a hard sell to find willing investors to bridge a gap.
 
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HB2Havasu

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If all goes as planned, I see folks starting to get cars around October month-end. But those will be purchased from a dealer. IMO, the dealer network will get deliveries before the deposit holders. Cost of raw materials has gone up and those initial deposits are going to be losers from a revenue standpoint. Cant built 1k cars losing money on each one and stay in business. Plus, new deposits (at a new higher price) will be taken once additional folks can put a hand on the car in a showroom and they will wait a season to get it.
That is the risk you take when you accept fixed price deposits 2 years in advance to fund your startup company. Hopefully it all works out. I have several friends banking on cars being ready this fall.
 

TOBTEK

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Been following the progress since the beginning.
No doubt it’s bad ass..... my only complaint is the truck bed looks like left over 660 Rhino parts.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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First production full chassis were shown tonight. Robot cut, robot bent and robot welded. They are doing some final dial in on weld machines to get everything perfect.

Robby spelled out tonight what I have been saying for awhile now. The factory has been tooling up for production for months, in parallel to prototype car development.

These are the first 10 production line cars that will be tested for final validation before production.

There are 44 weld stations per chassis, and the factory is gearing up to produce 40 chassis per day.

@riverroyal is gonna owe me a beer.. but I will give him a ride.
 
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