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702sandman

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How did they do in the sxs vs 10 car race at koh?
The class 10 cars beat the SXS in that race , that track suited them more because it was a high speed course and really big whoops, they have more top speed and more travel. In a race like silver state the SXS has a advantage with 4wd going thru the trees etc.
 
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riverroyal

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When you go with larger tires is there a way to compensate on a SxS like when you re-gear a Jeep?
I didnt do anything. Stock was 30 inch.
I did try and keep the wheel tire combo light.
20210213_123518.jpg
 
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RCDave

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It is certainly entertaining watching a few posters and their ocd focus on being right, and trying to beat that never wrong ocd into anyone and everyone that won't fall in line....lol
 

LargeOrangeFont

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It is certainly entertaining watching a few posters and their ocd focus on being right, and trying to beat that never wrong ocd into anyone and everyone that won't fall in line....lol

I think the ones that haven’t been right once in 45 pages are most entertaining.

It’s impossible for the prototypes to even even exist based on their prognostications.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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The class 10 cars beat the SXS in that race , that track suited them more because it was a high speed course and really big whoops, they have more top speed and more travel. In a race like silver state the SXS has a advantage with 4wd going thru the trees etc.

A SXS is the Miata of the dirt.. good, bad or indifferent.
 
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Loo Dog

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I think the ones that haven’t been right once in 45 pages are most entertaining.

It’s impossible for the prototypes to even even exist based on their prognostications.
Yet you haven’t been wrong once in 45 pages, am I right? I think you should use your moderation powers and rename this entire thread in your own personal honor. You’ve certainly earned it! 😂
 

JDKRXW

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Yes, you change the CVT clutching.

Yet you haven’t been wrong once in 45 pages, am I right? I think you should use your moderation powers and rename this entire thread in your own personal honor. You’ve certainly earned it! 😂
Haha... the answer here (above) is not 100% correct.
You can fiddle with cvt clutch wts & springs to somewhat compensate for larger (or smaller) diameter tires at low/mid engine rpm, but that's not the answer to maintain the cvt's highest efficiency at high engine speed. Once you're at full throttle and the primary and secondary are shifted out - you have to re-gear to get the engine running at the rpm you want it at (just like getting the prop pitch right on your boat).
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Yet you haven’t been wrong once in 45 pages, am I right? I think you should use your moderation powers and rename this entire thread in your own personal honor. You’ve certainly earned it! 😂

No you are wrong. I’ve just been right more often than they have 😉. Read the 45 pages and see for yourself to see where I’ve said where I was right and wrong.
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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Haha... the answer here (above) is not 100% correct.
You can fiddle with cvt clutch wts & springs to somewhat compensate for larger (or smaller) diameter tires at low/mid engine rpm, but that's not the answer to maintain the cvt's highest efficiency at high engine speed. Once you're at full throttle and the primary and secondary are shifted out - you have to re-gear to get the engine running at the rpm you want it at (just like getting the prop pitch right on your boat).
That is correct, we are not messing with the final drive with the CVT clutching but changes within reason a final drive or trans gear change is not needed. If you make a drastic tire size change like going from 28” tires to 35” tires, sure it can be an issue.

If I am making peak power at 8000 RPM and my shift out is set at 8000 RPM with 30” tires and then with 32” tires, I’m kinda done. At the top end, at max RPM when the clutch is fully shifted out, it just is what it is.

The midrange going up and down the rev range is where the clutching changes “behave” like a lower numerical gear to give you more punch again with larger tires.

To your point, some of the Polaris Rock crawler guys will swap out their gears in the trans for a lower numerical gears out of a Ranger or something for better crawling and to compensate for bigger tires.
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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Oh I have read it all. It’s akin to an F-150, Speed UTV and a Mazda Miata all having a baby at the same time. And you impregnated all three! 🤣

Another wrong post Loo Dog. Who has a Miata? If you are gonna hang off every post I make, at least retain some information.

And throw in some more personal insults and name calling to make it classy and keep @Looking Glass entertained.
 

RCDave

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I think the ones that haven’t been right once in 45 pages are most entertaining.

It’s impossible for the prototypes to even even exist based on their prognostications.

It is certainly entertaining watching a few posters and their ocd focus on being right, and trying to beat that never wrong ocd into anyone and everyone that won't fall in line....lol
Dude....chill.....its just opinions on a toy....doesn't matter who is right. Let it go
 

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Loo Dog

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Another wrong post Loo Dog. Who has a Miata? If you are gonna hang off every post I make, at least retain some information.

And throw in some more personal insults and name calling to make it classy and keep @Looking Glass entertained.
Not personal insults, I don’t know you and I don’t do that. It’s called sarcasm, or in this particular case, it could now be considered sarcasm which is getting under your skin. You may proceed with your ultra defensive thread, Sir.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Not personal insults, I don’t know you and I don’t do that. It’s called sarcasm, or in this particular case, it could now be considered sarcasm which is getting under your skin. You may proceed with your ultra defensive thread, Sir.

You’ve already hurled insults. And no, people on the internet who I don’t know don’t get under my skin.

See you later, I’m sure you will be back :)
 

Loo Dog

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You’ve already hurled insults. And no, people on the internet who I don’t know don’t get under my skin.

See you later, I’m sure you will be back :)
Do tell, or cite an example. Calling you out as a fan boy in a sarcastic way isn’t personal, or an insult in my world. If you took it as such, it’s completely my fault and I apologize.

You’re now officially wrong, though (for once?). I won’t be back. 😂
 

WhatExit?

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Another wrong post Loo Dog. Who has a Miata? If you are gonna hang off every post I make, at least retain some information.

And throw in some more personal insults and name calling to make it classy and keep @Looking Glass entertained.

You’ve hurled insults at me and youre calling others out fur what you’ve done. And you’ve chased members away.

You’re making this personal and you’re a moderator. What you’re doing is wrong.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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You’re making this personal and you’re a moderator. What you’re doing is wrong.

This has been personal at me directly, for 10 pages. These are people that have 0 interest In UTVs at all, they just come on here to cry at me for whatever grievance they’ve been holding back and are to scared to bring up. If you want to talk about my family, my truck, my race car, how I get paid, how I spend my money, or whatever else I post about, start another thread. I didn’t bring up any of those topics into this thread, others came in here with that noise, and I responded in kind.

This is a thread to talk about a product coming to market. That’s it, that is all it ever was.

If you don’t like it, don’t post in this thread, it is pretty simple.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Do tell, or cite an example. Calling you out as a fan boy in a sarcastic way isn’t personal, or an insult in my world. If you took it as such, it’s completely my fault and I apologize.

You’re now officially wrong, though (for once?). I won’t be back. 😂

Sarcasm does not mean what you think it means when you are telling someone to “impregnate a F150”. Farewell 😉
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Real Speed UTV news-

Most of the preproduction cars made their way back to NC for verification and disassembly. They have the drivetrains out of them to take measurements and complete things before the round of full and final testing begins. They are aware of the fit and finish issues with the doors and some of the other plastics.

They did some testing in Barstow and Johnson Valley in the last week and a half with at least 1 car. They were making sure the dry sump is oiling and scavenging correctly at various inclines, and testing general functionality. It sounds like they are going to make some final adjustments to the dog rings in the trans, as shifting is a little too tight right now. Also they are going to change some harness and wiring placements for the production cars.

RG alluded that cars down the road a couple years will have no lift shift calibrations and possibly paddle shifters. This car will shift on the fly if you let off the throttle, but will also start from a dead stop in each gear.

They will be racing one of their Speed race cars in a week and a half at UTV WC in Havasu. It will be interesting to see how the car looks out there and how well it does.
 

702sandman

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Real Speed UTV news-

Most of the preproduction cars made their way back to NC for verification and disassembly. They have the drivetrains out of them to take measurements and complete things before the round of full and final testing begins. They are aware of the fit and finish issues with the doors and some of the other plastics.

They did some testing in Barstow and Johnson Valley in the last week and a half with at least 1 car. They were making sure the dry sump is oiling and scavenging correctly at various inclines, and testing general functionality. It sounds like they are going to make some final adjustments to the dog rings in the trans, as shifting is a little too tight right now. Also they are going to change some harness and wiring placements for the production cars.

RG alluded that cars down the road a couple years will have no lift shift calibrations and possibly paddle shifters. This car will shift on the fly if you let off the throttle, but will also start from a dead stop in each gear.

They will be racing one of their Speed race cars in a week and a half at UTV WC in Havasu. It will be interesting to see how the car looks out there and how well it does.
Will it be one of the pre production ones or the hand Built ones he already has been running ?
 

RiverDave

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Glamis was a shit show before, but I'm talking more about the visitation numbers. Years ago it was easy to get a spot on Roadrunner on a Thursday or Friday night. Good luck trying that these days. Years ago you could ride up a dune with little concern of running across someone on the other side. Can't do that now.

Side by sides have facilitated greater visitation at our riding areas and brought with them an element that many of us have gone to those same riding areas for years to get away from.

That has been going on long before the invention of the sxs.. there’s a reason I habe always avoided that place.

That said yes SXS’s destroyed the desert and every Tom dick and Harry has one now. Easy financing no money down..
 

RiverDave

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It’s been interesting watching everyone flare up and peacock on who’s right and who’s wrong (neither).. lol.

There’s basically two arguments going on here.. one whether or not the speed car will ever get delivered..

For my own opinion on that I think it’s ridiculous to even ask that anymore.. It’s close, if you don’t know that by now you aren’t following the speed updates from the company. It’s coming sooner than later.


Then ya got the wizard vs LOF - U4 can SXS deal. That is an entirely different deal and one I find truly fascinating. I will freely admit I know very little about the u4’s.

It looks like it would kick ass in a king of the hammers style situation. No idea about pre running in the desert or technical trails etc.


I do find it interesting that LOF challenged ole wizard to a run here in Havasu. LOF’s car isn’t a race car by any means, and he doesn’t have a ton of money into upgrades to make it faster to my knowledge. It isn’t even the latest and greatest which’s RE considerably faster??

I’m surprised Wizard wouldn’t take the opportunity for the smack down on that if he truly believes what he believes..

If it could be done somewhat safely that would be something I’d want to watch.


I will give you my overall opinion. SXS makes a lot more sense for my needs cruising around in the desert. Unless they make one of those things with seating for 5, that is good for putting around and sometimes going kinda fast.. has a stereo and a nice place for a cooler..

If they make something like that, I’d be interested in seeing it.. but in all my years I haven’t seen that out in the dirt.

I’m rolling around in a 17 non turbo RZR with some upgrades, but it’s mostly stereo, lights, wheels cage and interior.

95851AB7-F6A9-48AC-805E-52E0D871BCA5.jpeg
8E229967-3391-49FD-A72A-253266390D02.jpeg
 

Taboma

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Real Speed UTV news-

Most of the preproduction cars made their way back to NC for verification and disassembly. They have the drivetrains out of them to take measurements and complete things before the round of full and final testing begins. They are aware of the fit and finish issues with the doors and some of the other plastics.

They did some testing in Barstow and Johnson Valley in the last week and a half with at least 1 car. They were making sure the dry sump is oiling and scavenging correctly at various inclines, and testing general functionality. It sounds like they are going to make some final adjustments to the dog rings in the trans, as shifting is a little too tight right now. Also they are going to change some harness and wiring placements for the production cars.

RG alluded that cars down the road a couple years will have no lift shift calibrations and possibly paddle shifters. This car will shift on the fly if you let off the throttle, but will also start from a dead stop in each gear.

They will be racing one of their Speed race cars in a week and a half at UTV WC in Havasu. It will be interesting to see how the car looks out there and how well it does.



Lift Shift.JPG



Could you elaborate on this a bit. You recently mentioned this car uses a belt, to transmit the power to a sequential transmission.
You stated the belt isn't engaged at idle, until you depress the throttle, yet this doesn't involve a clutch, but somehow the belt is engaged.
From that point, please describe the shifting sequence if you don't mind, because I'm not clear which car is "This Car" ? Current or future ?

Also, as currently designed, does this Speed Car have a High and Low transfer case ?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Will it be one of the pre production ones or the hand Built ones he already has been running ?
Niether actually. It is a new hand built car. All production suspension and drivetrain is the claim. It has the billet front bulkhead I believe, Carbon body, 1 piece chassis/roll cage.

This is the first of the $125k turn key race cars they have sold six of and are building at their shop in NC.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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View attachment 1055638


Could you elaborate on this a bit. You recently mentioned this car uses a belt, to transmit the power to a sequential transmission.
You stated the belt isn't engaged at idle, until you depress the throttle, yet this doesn't involve a clutch, but somehow the belt is engaged.
From that point, please describe the shifting sequence if you don't mind, because I'm not clear which car is "This Car" ? Current or future ?

Also, as currently designed, does this Speed Car have a High and Low transfer case ?
Sure. To start, the belt is the clutch just as it is in a Polaris or Can Am, or Wildcat. So you are slipping the belt to get going. Aside from the Honda Talon and Yamaha YXZ that have actual gearboxes, I believe the only sport SXS with a wet clutch is the Kawasaki.

So you give it gas, the primary squeezes the belt and you are off. The Speed car will operate just like your current Wildcat, RZR, or X3. You can start in any gear, L or H. The Speed car is the same. You don’t have to shift it at all. The difference is you can’t change gears on the fly in any of the current cars. With the Speed car you can. Also the Speed car has an overdrive gear, which none of the current cars have. The claim is you can start in overdrive if you didn’t want to shift it, or L or H.

The Speed car also has a mechanically operated transfer case, not electronic like the current cars on the market. There is 2wd, 4wd and 4wd with the front diff lock.

Make sense?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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It’s been interesting watching everyone flare up and peacock on who’s right and who’s wrong (neither).. lol.

There’s basically two arguments going on here.. one whether or not the speed car will ever get delivered..

For my own opinion on that I think it’s ridiculous to even ask that anymore.. It’s close, if you don’t know that by now you aren’t following the speed updates from the company. It’s coming sooner than later.


Then ya got the wizard vs LOF - U4 can SXS deal. That is an entirely different deal and one I find truly fascinating. I will freely admit I know very little about the u4’s.

It looks like it would kick ass in a king of the hammers style situation. No idea about pre running in the desert or technical trails etc.


I do find it interesting that LOF challenged ole wizard to a run here in Havasu. LOF’s car isn’t a race car by any means, and he doesn’t have a ton of money into upgrades to make it faster to my knowledge. It isn’t even the latest and greatest which’s RE considerably faster??

I’m surprised Wizard wouldn’t take the opportunity for the smack down on that if he truly believes what he believes..

If it could be done somewhat safely that would be something I’d want to watch.


I will give you my overall opinion. SXS makes a lot more sense for my needs cruising around in the desert. Unless they make one of those things with seating for 5, that is good for putting around and sometimes going kinda fast.. has a stereo and a nice place for a cooler..

If they make something like that, I’d be interested in seeing it.. but in all my years I haven’t seen that out in the dirt.

I’m rolling around in a 17 non turbo RZR with some upgrades, but it’s mostly stereo, lights, wheels cage and interior.

View attachment 1055603 View attachment 1055604
Would be cool to get a few different vehicles and just have a few folks watching for cross traffic and set up a couple mile “stage” letting everyone one individually and time it. A friendly competition and learn about the capabilities of each other’s cars.

What you are describing is exactly what I told him then... driving a race car is a pain in the ass and full of compromises most don’t want to make. The SXS is slower but way more nimble and handles better. A U4 is a sledgehammer.

And yea my car is the same as yours, just a ‘16, mostly stock.
 

dirtslinger2

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Sure. To start, the belt is the clutch just as it is in a Polaris or Can Am, or Wildcat. So you are slipping the belt to get going. Aside from the Honda Talon and Yamaha YXZ that have actual gearboxes, I believe the only sport SXS with a wet clutch is the Kawasaki.

So you give it gas, the primary squeezes the belt and you are off. The Speed car will operate just like your current Wildcat, RZR, or X3. You can start in any gear, L or H. The Speed car is the same. You don’t have to shift it at all. The difference is you can’t change gears on the fly in any of the current cars. With the Speed car you can. Also the Speed car has an overdrive gear, which none of the current cars have. The claim is you can start in overdrive if you didn’t want to shift it, or L or H.

The Speed car also has a mechanically operated transfer case, not electronic like the current cars on the market. There is 2wd, 4wd and 4wd with the front diff lock.

Make sense?

I don't think you're really doing yourself any justice here, and probably why folks keep questioning you about the clutches.

The belt is not the "Clutch", it is part of of the CVT, but probably better described as the "disc" when comparing to a standard "Clutch".

There are 2 "clutches" in a CVT, a primary and a secondary, or a drive and driven clutch, they determine when the belt will become driven, and then also dictate the gear ratio, by changing the diameter of the primary and or secondary clutches, independent of gear that the transmission is placed in.

What do you think Tapp Clutch has been building? Only the belt?
 
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Taboma

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Sure. To start, the belt is the clutch just as it is in a Polaris or Can Am, or Wildcat. So you are slipping the belt to get going. Aside from the Honda Talon and Yamaha YXZ that have actual gearboxes, I believe the only sport SXS with a wet clutch is the Kawasaki.

So you give it gas, the primary squeezes the belt and you are off. The Speed car will operate just like your current Wildcat, RZR, or X3. You can start in any gear, L or H. The Speed car is the same. You don’t have to shift it at all. The difference is you can’t change gears on the fly in any of the current cars. With the Speed car you can. Also the Speed car has an overdrive gear, which none of the current cars have. The claim is you can start in overdrive if you didn’t want to shift it, or L or H.

The Speed car also has a mechanically operated transfer case, not electronic like the current cars on the market. There is 2wd, 4wd and 4wd with the front diff lock.

Make sense?


Thank You. OK, so NOT like the Talon or YXZ sequential gear boxes.

Belt driven
CVS (Within each range)
Low-High-OD gear ranges --- start in any of them, shift on fly between them.

" You don't have to shift at all" --- meaning the car will shift from low range to high to OD (As an example), automatically or manually ?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I don't think you're really doing yourself any justice here, and probably why folks keep questioning you about the clutches.

The belt is not the "Clutch", it is part of of the CVT, but probably better described as the "pressure plate" when comparing to a standard "Clutch".

There are 2 "clutches" in a CVT, a primary and a secondary, or a drive and driven clutch, they determine when the belt will become driven, and then also dictate the gear ratio, by changing the diameter of the primary and or secondary clutches, independent of gear that the transmission is placed in.

What do you think Tapp Clutch has been building? Only the belt?

Tell me what slips to get the car going and what wears and needs to be replaced?

The belt. The belt is the drivetrain wear item.

The belt slips on the primary sheave to get the car moving. The metal CVT primary and secondary clutches change the drive ratio. That is it. There is nothing in the metal primary or secondary that slip to get the car moving. To put it in automotive terms, the primary is the pressure plate, the belt is the clutch disc.

This isn’t new, it’s how most SXSs today operate, except the Honda, Yamaha and Kawasaki.
 
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dirtslinger2

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Thank You. OK, so NOT like the Talon or YXZ sequential gear boxes.

Belt driven
CVS (Within each range)
Low-High-OD gear ranges --- start in any of them, shift on fly between them.

" You don't have to shift at all" --- meaning the car will shift from low range to high to OD (As an example), automatically or manually ?

No, you will need to shift it manually. You can start in Low, High, or OD, and you don't need to shift. If you want to change from any of those gears, you will need to manually shift it to what ever gear you want it to be in.
 

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Thank You. OK, so NOT like the Talon or YXZ sequential gear boxes.

Belt driven
CVS (Within each range)
Low-High-OD gear ranges --- start in any of them, shift on fly between them.

" You don't have to shift at all" --- meaning the car will shift from low range to high to OD (As an example), automatically or manually ?

No, it is manual shifting between the gears, if you choose to do so. It will not shift from L-H-O automatically.
 

dirtslinger2

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Tell me what slips to get the car going. What wears and needs to be replaced?

The belt. The belt is the drivetrain wear item.

The belt slips on the primary sheave to get the car moving. The metal CVT primary and secondary clutches change the drive ratio. That is it.

What slips? The belt is slipping because the "Clutches" aren't engaged. Similar to the pressure plate slipping on a standard "Clutch".

So what would you call the Clutch on a standard clutch system? The pressure plate, the disc, the flywheel?
 

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What slips? The belt is slipping because the "Clutches" aren't engaged. Similar to the pressure plate slipping on a standard "Clutch".

So what would you call the Clutch on a standard clutch system? The pressure plate, the disc, the flywheel?

We are saying the same thing here. I edited my post with that exact analogy. And that is what I said originally in post # #2186- The primary squeezes the belt when you give it gas and off you go. There is no wet clutch.
 

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Viewing the Tapp Clutch videos and web site, it seems their focus is on the heavy duty nature and adjustability of the primary clutch. Yet as the primary clutch contracts, the secondary expands to facilitate the ratio change. Don't the primary and secondary have to be balanced in their rate of expansion and contraction ?
 

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Where’s the back seat? And cooler storage etc? 😳
What do I need back seats for? Small cooler goes behind the seats along with the tools and other small stuff. I can also carry 36 gallons of gas for a range of a couple hundred miles.
 

Taboma

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What do I need back seats for? Small cooler goes behind the seats along with the tools and other small stuff. I can also carry 36 gallons of gas for a range of a couple hundred miles.

Should Dave place his children in the cooler or spare gas tank ? In our case, just the wife and I, so two seater works fine. But your Ultra 4 car wouldn't get far up in our area, unless you brought a chain saw in order to remove a number of pesky pine trees.
 

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As said earlier.



Ultra 4 is a spec class created for the King of the Hammers. Now they race other events which at first they did not. There is nothing better at king of the hammers for the actual race. Top end cars are probably around 500k to build.
 

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It’s been interesting watching everyone flare up and peacock on who’s right and who’s wrong (neither).. lol.

There’s basically two arguments going on here.. one whether or not the speed car will ever get delivered..

For my own opinion on that I think it’s ridiculous to even ask that anymore.. It’s close, if you don’t know that by now you aren’t following the speed updates from the company. It’s coming sooner than later.


Then ya got the wizard vs LOF - U4 can SXS deal. That is an entirely different deal and one I find truly fascinating. I will freely admit I know very little about the u4’s.

It looks like it would kick ass in a king of the hammers style situation. No idea about pre running in the desert or technical trails etc.


I do find it interesting that LOF challenged ole wizard to a run here in Havasu. LOF’s car isn’t a race car by any means, and he doesn’t have a ton of money into upgrades to make it faster to my knowledge. It isn’t even the latest and greatest which’s RE considerably faster??

I’m surprised Wizard wouldn’t take the opportunity for the smack down on that if he truly believes what he believes..

If it could be done somewhat safely that would be something I’d want to watch.


I will give you my overall opinion. SXS makes a lot more sense for my needs cruising around in the desert. Unless they make one of those things with seating for 5, that is good for putting around and sometimes going kinda fast.. has a stereo and a nice place for a cooler..

If they make something like that, I’d be interested in seeing it.. but in all my years I haven’t seen that out in the dirt.

I’m rolling around in a 17 non turbo RZR with some upgrades, but it’s mostly stereo, lights, wheels cage and interior.

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I'm nowhere near Havasu and my car is kept in NV. That means driving out there, picking up the car, driving to Havasu and then doing it all in reverse. Hardly worth it just to prove a point to someone who knows everything about everything on an Internet forum.
 
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