WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

4 seat speed UTV

Duramax

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Only thing different on this car is the joints on the front arm. These arms are adjustable, stock will be fixed with the same size joints.

production forged hubs, production forged spindles, axles, shocks, arms, steering, tie rods, brakes, are all production spec parts.

front bulkhead is prototype billet instead of production high pressure cast. Cage is production with regard to tubing bends and sizes, but has door bars and is not bolted on.

Clutches are billet, cast production clutches will be out by the end of the year. They had to completely redo the clutches after the first couple tests, so that was one hold up.


Pretty impressive!
 

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Yes and he has a car for that amount..... You know the saying....to be a millionaire in off road you need to start with 2 million.

I'm hoping I'm wrong and that it all pans out for everyone. But I'm still leery that it will happen to the extent that has been publicized..... I can see huge lawsuits coming for being late/delays, carb, and all the other BS people sue for.
No one is going to sue for anything. The delivery dates were not guaranteed, the end of 2020 delivery was a best effort and the deposits were not much money. He's not going through all this effort, buying a building as a showroom in LHC, setting up dealers, making all these parts, an engine, transaxle, etc. to purposely defraud 4000-5000 people out of a couple thousand bucks.

I signed up in May and was told March of 2021. If it is done then, awesome, if not, well I'm not going to be mad if there is progress. They are shooting for 40 units per business day, so once they get going, they will catch up very quickly.

I was not a fan of this in the beginning either, and it is very "tesla". But by and large people are feeling pretty comfortable because of the openness of the process, and clearly progress is being made.

When would you ever see Polaris or Can Am out testing a prototype car? When would they ever admit that their clutch didn't work right and they are redoing it to make it right?

The free marketing he's getting out of this stuff is better than anything he could have paid for.
 
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riverroyal

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As these tests keep happening, people are getting excited, but most everyone I have talked to that is actually a buyer is fine with them taking the time to make it right. It just makes our day 2 upgrade list shorter and shorter.
its gonna be sweet. I do like that the guy is so hands on. He didn't need t go to Glamis to test
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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its gonna be sweet. I do like that the guy is so hands on. He didn't need t go to Glamis to test
Its going to force the entire industry to make better products.. but they are gonna get more expensive.

Polaris and Can Am could crush him. They have the electronics capabilities that Speed may never have.

They could make their cars better for almost no extra money and pass a markup to the consumer, and most consumers would gladly pay it.

How much would it cost them to put heavier duty cage, better radius rods, etc. on a car from the factory? Almost nothing, literally just the materials. A consumer would pay another $2000 for such a car, most of that is profit to Polaris or Can Am.
 

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Its going to force the entire industry to make better products.. but they are gonna get more expensive.

Polaris and Can Am could crush him. They have the electronics capabilities that Speed may never have.

They could make their cars better for almost no extra money and pass a markup to the consumer, and most consumers would gladly pay it.

How much would it cost them to put heavier duty cage, better radius rods, etc. on a car from the factory? Almost nothing, literally just the materials. A consumer would pay another $2000 for such a car, most of that is profit to Polaris or Can Am.
Will be interesting to see the inevitable comparisons between XP PRO R coming out in January and an El Diablo.
 

petie6464

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Interesting to watch. . Getting into this market is like getting into the milk business, you ain't.

I wouldn't put up a penny till it was cash and carry, by that time the established manufacturers with have a better product for less money and their new stuff is already done.
 

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Interesting to watch. . Getting into this market is like getting into the milk business, you ain't.

I wouldn't put up a penny till it was cash and carry, by that time the established manufacturers with have a better product for less money and their new stuff is already done.
The problem with that is prices aren't going down.. only up.

Just the $1500 deposit spots in line are being sold for $6K or more. The cars are going to change hands for a $10K markup on the flip when they arrive.
 

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No one is going to sue for anything. The delivery dates were not guaranteed, the end of 2020 delivery was a best effort and the deposits were not much money. He's not going through all this effort, buying a building as a showroom in LHC, setting up dealers, making all these parts, an engine, transaxle, etc. to purposely defraud 4000-5000 people out of a couple thousand bucks.

I signed up in May and was told March of 2021. If it is done then, awesome, if not, well I'm not going to be mad if there is progress. They are shooting for 40 units per business day, so once they get going, they will catch up very quickly.

I was not a fan of this in the beginning either, and it is very "tesla". But by and large people are feeling pretty comfortable because of the openness of the process, and clearly progress is being made.

When would you ever see Polaris or Can Am out testing a prototype car? When would they ever admit that their clutch didn't work right and they are redoing it to make it right?

The free marketing he's getting out of this stuff is better than anything he could have paid for.
Never said he would purposely defraud people that would be unethical.....But shit happens and things fold up even with all the R&D works building new components.

From reading your posts you seem to know a lot about what he's doing...You have insight on this than just a deposit on the unit?

People are ok with delays, but only for so long. I can guarantee if he take 2 more years to R&D something is still going to break when it hits the masses. I know your proud of your purchase but in the end I hope you get what you are thinking your going to get.
 

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Never said he would purposely defraud people that would be unethical.....But shit happens and things fold up even with all the R&D works building new components.

From reading your posts you seem to know a lot about what he's doing...You have insight on this than just a deposit on the unit?

People are ok with delays, but only for so long. I can guarantee if he take 2 more years to R&D something is still going to break when it hits the masses. I know your proud of your purchase but in the end I hope you get what you are thinking your going to get.
People thrown down big money for custom boats that wont be done for 18 months or more :) There is a reason I didn't go out and sell my current RZR. I don't think I ever really thought there would be production cars by the end of this year ( I don't think I said I believed that claim anywhere in this thread). I shrugged this whole program off last October as well and didn't take it seriously until April and put a deposit in May.

Yea patience is going to be worn out if it takes an extra year. It does not seem like they are not that far behind, maybe 3-4 months behind. Shit has already happened and they have added features and that is why they are behind. But it is a new car and process from the ground up. of course there are going to be problems. There may be another big problem they hit in the near future.

The cars are going to break, and there are going to be quirks with them. It is unrealistic to expect perfection. On the other hand as new manufacturer they can’t afford people smoking belts in 100 miles or having major problems. They need to address obvious problems and seem to be doing that.

I don’t have much extra info than anyone else. They are just very open with their customers. If you have a question you can email or call them and you get an answer. I do know the design team lead that was on the Textron side from the Wildcat XX, so maybe I do have some extra insight on how this stuff goes from him. They are doing things with sub assemblies and dialing in assembly lines behind the scenes. People seem to think this is a serial process, no there are multiple processes, tests and verification all happening at once.

It is not going to take them another year to line out the rest of the car. The hard parts are already done. They don’t have the time or budget to sit around testing for a year. They have to fail quickly and recover fast. Honestly after seeing how quickly they recovered from issues during the first tests, I have more confidence in the car. The first car hit the dirt 8 weeks ago. They have come a very long way in 8 weeks. We should see the 4 seat test mule out here pretty soon, and assembly line test cars after that.

At this point I’m not worried about losing the money I put down at all. With the buzz created around this thing, I could double my deposit selling my spot in line if I got tired of waiting. If it does half of what is shown in these videos I'll be satisfied. Regardless of the performance it is going to be the safest car out there by miles.
 
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c_land

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Never said he would purposely defraud people that would be unethical.....But shit happens and things fold up even with all the R&D works building new components.

From reading your posts you seem to know a lot about what he's doing...You have insight on this than just a deposit on the unit?

People are ok with delays, but only for so long. I can guarantee if he take 2 more years to R&D something is still going to break when it hits the masses. I know your proud of your purchase but in the end I hope you get what you are thinking your going to get.
Agreed.

Robby has been working on a single car. The chassis, wiring, suspension, even the body panels are hand built. It's nice, its also a one off custom off road vehicle at this point.

This is also 1 model of 3? When do the other 2 prototypes get built?

Getting speed scaled to a production level operation is going to take time. Definitely more than 3 months time.
 

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The problem with that is prices aren't going down.. only up.

Just the $1500 deposit spots in line are being sold for $6K or more. The cars are going to change hands for a $10K markup on the flip when they arrive.
That could happen I image however you need to have the product to be able to flip it.

Its just impossible for a start up to beat the established manufacturers to the punch.

That's a flooded nitch market that will most likely soften in the short term with moderate growth going forward after a already large upswing.

I've watched many motorcycle, car, boat and engine manufacturers come up with some good and even great products, most all tanked sooner than later.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'll keep watching.
 

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Agreed.

Robby has been working on a single car. The chassis, wiring, suspension, even the body panels are hand built. It's nice, its also a one off custom off road vehicle at this point.

This is also 1 model of 3? When do the other 2 prototypes get built?

Getting speed scaled to a production level operation is going to take time. Definitely more than 3 months time.
What if I told you most of the parts for the car are already actively being produced by suppliers?

They are saying 4 seater mule by christmas/ new years.

The people waiting for the 3rd short wheelbase 72"model are gonna be waiting awhile. They only sold like 60 of them so they are simply not a high priority. It is going to be awhile before they the first run of Baja Bandits.

The long wheelbase 2 seater and the 4 seater are nearly identical with regards to parts.
 

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That could happen I image however you need to have the product to be able to flip it.

Its just impossible for a start up to beat the established manufacturers to the punch.

That's a flooded nitch market that will most likely soften in the short term with moderate growth going forward after a already large upswing.

I've watched many motorcycle, car, boat and engine manufacturers come up with some good and even great products, most all tanked sooner than later.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'll keep watching.
True on the flip, but I could have my reservation sold for what I paid in 30 minutes. I could sell it for a 400% profit by tomorrow morning.

I dunno, look at Tesla. Like them or not they beat everyone to the punch and built an amazing brand with a rabid, absurdly loyal client base.

That is exactly what Speed is trying to do. The business model is super simple. Build a car you don't have to spend $20K on after the purchase and sell it for $10K more than the competition. Polaris and Can Am aren't going to beat him to the punch, They are going to follow up in the next couple years with evolution of their current cars with more tech to compete.

Can Am supposedly has a new transmission in the works, and Polaris supposedly has a new 77" wide car with an NA 2.0 in it. All that stuff is already baked.. they can't change course now, they are too big and want to ride their name recognition to stomp out Speed.
 
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@LargeOrangeFont

Waiting for an answer...:)

Dan'l
I know a couple industry insiders, (not Speed insiders) and have just asked a couple questions to Speed here and there. And I watch all the Speed press releases. Partly because I find them interesting, and partly because if it goes south I want to sell my spot before anyone realizes it.
 

RiverDave

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Let’s face it the Speed car is the cats ass.. glad I got in early. I am pretty sure I could sell it for plus 15-20k the day it’s delivered! But I won’t because I’m gonna run over all these non believers and make them choke on dust while sending green texts for help and mercy to their friends..
 

mash on it

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I know a couple industry insiders, (not Speed insiders) and have just asked a couple questions to Speed here and there. And I watch all the Speed press releases. Partly because I find them interesting, and partly because if it goes south I want to sell my spot before anyone realizes it.
Didn't Martha Stewart know some industry insiders?

Asking for a friend.

Dan'l
 

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So my buddy was talking shit on a yxz page about Robby and him not holding to his release date and my bud gets a message straight from Robby Gordon himself
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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So my buddy was talking shit on a yxz page about Robby and him not holding to his release date and my bud gets a message straight from Robby Gordon himself View attachment 952028
He’s pretty much right. The only people complaining are the ones that haven’t put up any money. :)
 

ArizonaKevin

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So my buddy was talking shit on a yxz page about Robby and him not holding to his release date and my bud gets a message straight from Robby Gordon himself View attachment 952028
I don't think there's a whole lot of utility in Rubby sending a message like this, but I do agree with the sentiment. If you want to talk shit and you don't have a deposit down, pound sand.
 

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I don't think there's a whole lot of utility in Rubby sending a message like this, but I do agree with the sentiment. If you want to talk shit and you don't have a deposit down, pound sand.
Ownership has its perks.
 

c_land

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What if I told you most of the parts for the car are already actively being produced by suppliers?

They are saying 4 seater mule by christmas/ new years.

The people waiting for the 3rd short wheelbase 72"model are gonna be waiting awhile. They only sold like 60 of them so they are simply not a high priority. It is going to be awhile before they the first run of Baja Bandits.

The long wheelbase 2 seater and the 4 seater are nearly identical with regards to parts.
I hope they have a lot being produced everywhere given their aggressive timeline. They are going to need to be produced efficiently though. The cage, chassis, and other components of the car being tested now aren't exactly "assemblies". They have multiple large hand welded and forged components that don't lend themselves to being efficient from a production standpoint.

I think the large components that come on a polaris or can am are ugly. But they have a purpose. Bolted together frames and cages break down for shipping and don't take hours of assembly time. They can get something acceptable to most buyers to dealer in a reasonable timeframe with reasonable volume. That's what is missing for me here.

I wouldn't think another prototype would be out of the question by xmas either. Utilizing a majority of the parts from the 2 seater, all they would need to change is the chassis and a handful of other misc parts to have a running vehicle.

And don't get me wrong, if you are at the front of the line and get one of the speed cars with badass billet hand made parts at a good value, you certainly are ahead of the game. Just like you have stated here previously, I buy something out of the showroom and spend another $10k making it how I want it.
 
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c_land

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True on the flip, but I could have my reservation sold for what I paid in 30 minutes. I could sell it for a 400% profit by tomorrow morning.

I dunno, look at Tesla. Like them or not they beat everyone to the punch and built an amazing brand with a rabid, absurdly loyal client base.

That is exactly what Speed is trying to do. The business model is super simple. Build a car you don't have to spend $20K on after the purchase and sell it for $10K more than the competition. Polaris and Can Am aren't going to beat him to the punch, They are going to follow up in the next couple years with evolution of their current cars with more tech to compete.

Can Am supposedly has a new transmission in the works, and Polaris supposedly has a new 77" wide car with an NA 2.0 in it. All that stuff is already baked.. they can't change course now, they are too big and want to ride their name recognition to stomp out Speed.
I would say that giving a middle finger to the industry “standard” 1000cc is more than an evolution of their current cars.

8E0B0463-CACD-4374-A0FE-EA48B2A90BC4.jpeg
8A396427-C557-473F-A9FF-193948038928.jpeg
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I would say that giving a middle finger to the industry “standard” 1000cc is more than an evolution of their current cars.

View attachment 952046 View attachment 952045
1000cc is just an industry standard because it is a legal standard and makes the cars subject to different regulations.

The Polaris is gonna be a 200HP 2L NA car supposedly. It will be based off a platform they already have in the Pro XP. It is going to cost a ton of money making that car faster than it is from the factory.

It will probably be a nice car though, with a nice powerband. I hope it has an overdrive.
It will be awesome if CA does not make you wear a helmet because it is over 1L... but that is probably a pipe dream.

Stuff like that Speed cant spend the money to lobby and do. Polaris has that kind of money and lobbying power.

The Speed car has a sequential 3 speed with overdrive.
 
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^^^ Judging from the exhaust it looks like it's still a two cylinder?
 

RiverDave

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So my buddy was talking shit on a yxz page about Robby and him not holding to his release date and my bud gets a message straight from Robby Gordon himself
I removed the image because I don’t think it’s right to put RG’s phone number all over the internet.
 

RiverDave

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What if I told you most of the parts for the car are already actively being produced by suppliers?

They are saying 4 seater mule by christmas/ new years.

The people waiting for the 3rd short wheelbase 72"model are gonna be waiting awhile. They only sold like 60 of them so they are simply not a high priority. It is going to be awhile before they the first run of Baja Bandits.

The long wheelbase 2 seater and the 4 seater are nearly identical with regards to parts.
You think I will get my car around New Years? 4 seater RG?
 

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You think I will get my car around New Years? 4 seater RG?
No. Couple months out easy, Late Feb or March is my guess. But again, I have no more info than anyone else, could be later than that.
 

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You think I will get my car around New Years? 4 seater RG?
Maybe New Years 2021 you will see your car.
I like what he has posted, but I think two or three additional price increases will be announced prior to final production.
 

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Maybe New Years 2021 you will see your car.
I like what he has posted, but I think two or three additional price increases will be announced prior to final production.
Prices are gonna go up for sure for those not already in line with deposits. This will be a $40k car in 18 months easily. As of 12/1 there are no more discounts. Pricing is at MSRP. Dealers will be marking these up as well.

RG has already said per unit costs are beyond what they expected. They put more features in the car because of the overwhelming response.
 

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Prices are gonna go up for sure for those not already in line with deposits. This will be a $40k car in 18 months easily. As of 12/1 there are no more discounts. Pricing is at MSRP. Dealers will be marking these up as well.

RG has already said per unit costs are beyond what they expected. They put more features in the car because of the overwhelming response.
Are you saying those with deposits are price locked? I can’t see any business honoring that. Cant loss 5-10k on the first 1k cars and stay in business. Once the car is finalized, the price will be set for those with deposits direct from MFG and MSPR for dealers, but that price IMO will be 10-15k more then what RG was thinking at the show in 19 when he started taking deposits.
 

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Are you saying those with deposits are price locked? I can’t see any business honoring that. Cant loss 5-10k on the first 1k cars and stay in business. Once the car is finalized, the price will be set for those with deposits direct from MFG and MSPR for dealers, but that price IMO will be 10-15k more then what RG was thinking at the show in 19 when he started taking deposits.
The deposits are price locked on the price of the car, yes. We put down a deposit on a car for X spec at Y price. Y price was discounted until 12/1. That is just the base price for the car. If you want a higher end model, or options you pay for those.

That discount is around what a dealer would have made per unit anyway, so the net to RG per car is likely in the same ballpark. I don't think they are loosing any money per unit. I think the profits on these initial units are lower due to the increased costs of production. If they were going to be 5-10K upside down per unit to start, they wouldn't be doing this.

There are no more discounts via buying direct. Everything is not MSRP. There are numerous upsell opportunities to a higher spec model and many options, so I don’t think he is losing money on any of these cars original discounted cars. If he is, he has said the original discounted cars they view as their marketing campaign. But most people are spending $5k-10K in upgrades and option parts, of which they are making a huge margin on.

As of this moment, you can still buy a base 4 seat car for $32k, and base 2 seat for $30K It has the same drivetrain, just plastic seats, no roof, no beadlock wheels, no custom wrap, and some lower end trim.

To your point, I dont see those prices staying at that level when these things start rolling off the assembly line.
 

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See the shocks are to the bottom arm now. Looks like they are waking up to some new things, Thanks RG for that. True capitalism makes things better and cheaper for the consumer.
They have an interesting way of solving for axle clearance issues with that U shaped lower shock mount with the axle going through the middle. Looks weird, but should be super strong.
 

ONE-A-DAY

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No one is going to sue for anything. The delivery dates were not guaranteed, the end of 2020 delivery was a best effort and the deposits were not much money. He's not going through all this effort, buying a building as a showroom in LHC, setting up dealers, making all these parts, an engine, transaxle, etc. to purposely defraud 4000-5000 people out of a couple thousand bucks.

I signed up in May and was told March of 2021. If it is done then, awesome, if not, well I'm not going to be mad if there is progress. They are shooting for 40 units per business day, so once they get going, they will catch up very quickly.

I was not a fan of this in the beginning either, and it is very "tesla". But by and large people are feeling pretty comfortable because of the openness of the process, and clearly progress is being made.

When would you ever see Polaris or Can Am out testing a prototype car? When would they ever admit that their clutch didn't work right and they are redoing it to make it right?

The free marketing he's getting out of this stuff is better than anything he could have paid for.
So do these have a belt drive?
 

2Driver

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I wouldn’t lose a second nights sleep over what RG will create and come through with.

The concern I have, and maybe it’s not one, is executing on large scale vehicle manufacturing. It a huge undertaking to go from developing a prototype to wham, you are full on manufacturer. Logistics, supply chain, QA during the production etc etc. It takes a lot of experience and talent to pull that off without issues and I haven’t seen the resume for that part. Dialing in a car is barley 1/2 of it. Hope he nails it though.
 

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Interesting to watch. . Getting into this market is like getting into the milk business, you ain't.

I wouldn't put up a penny till it was cash and carry, by that time the established manufacturers with have a better product for less money and their new stuff is already done.
Good point....if anything this is going to level up the competition....

but the whole thing reminds me of Trident.... Far ahead of anything in the field but time to market and getting the bugs worked out slows that time and allows the competition to react...However, Trident happened in 2007/08 where the market completely dropped out. If the financial crisis would not have happened then maybe Froggy would have leapfrogged the bigger builders in the boutique fashion that DCB started.

I think it is important he gets to the market quick and keeps the momentum.....the longer it takes the more time the competition have to close the gap....On the flip side Elon Musk has withstood delays via conveying confidence and being transparent...maybe the same applies here.

The car looks amazing!
 

petie6464

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Good point....if anything this is going to level up the competition....

but the whole thing reminds me of Trident.... Far ahead of anything in the field but time to market and getting the bugs worked out slows that time and allows the competition to react...However, Trident happened in 2007/08 where the market completely dropped out. If the financial crisis would not have happened then maybe Froggy would have leapfrogged the bigger builders in the boutique fashion that DCB started.

I think it is important he gets to the market quick and keeps the momentum.....the longer it takes the more time the competition have to close the gap....On the flip side Elon Musk has withstood delays via conveying confidence and being transparent...maybe the same applies here.

The car looks amazing!
Yeah I remember that boat. I think it was ahead of its time only in the mind of the builder, it was actually pretty much a joke even though he was early to the infusion process as far as nitch small boat builders were concerned.

Tesla on the other hand had/has the massive capital to push through and at a good time with more and more fruitcakes and tree huggers getting their driver license.

If he has some smart business minds with huge money behind them and they are the ones in control maybe they will deliver some product.

Interesting to watch-
 

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Steering RDP Towards Political Moderation 😁
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I wouldn’t lose a second nights sleep over what RG will create and come through with.

The concern I have, and maybe it’s not one, is executing on large scale vehicle manufacturing. It a huge undertaking to go from developing a prototype to wham, you are full on manufacturer. Logistics, supply chain, QA during the production etc etc. It takes a lot of experience and talent to pull that off without issues and I haven’t seen the resume for that part. Dialing in a car is barley 1/2 of it. Hope he nails it though.
He already has an assembly partner. The cars are being assembled at the Hisun factory in Texas.
They have used partners as manufacturing and design consultants every step of the way. That is how they have gone from an idea to working prototypes in less than a year.
 
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