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75 Spectra V-Drive with a Bad Blown 572

78Southwind

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My timing is not locked out, tried it one time and it made the motor surge real bad. Been advised for a long time not to run more that 30/32 degrees of timing with a blown motor on pump gas, or in my case AV gas, to avoid detonation. Motor has been trouble free.
Interesting about the locked out timing. Jeremie said the Spectra's engine has more surge in it compared to when he drove it with Greg. I am wondering if Greg at a latter time locked out the timing (it's currently locked out) and that's why there is more surge. The Spectra's engine is currently locked out at 32 degrees of timing.

I am curious about the 100 LL avgas that your running are you buying it at an airport? I know I have seen Sunoco 100 LL race fuel at the several gas station within a half hour from me but the stuff is just as expensive as Sunoco 110 Leaded (roughly around $9 to $10 a gallon).
 

SBMech

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If you can get sunco leaded 110, I'd try to tune around that vs av gas, av gas is really hard on components.
 

78Southwind

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If you can get sunco leaded 110, I'd try to tune around that vs av gas, av gas is really hard on components.
I have read that the avgas is designed for low RPM's but didn't know if that was just BS.
 

rivrrts429

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If you can get sunco leaded 110, I'd try to tune around that vs av gas, av gas is really hard on components.
I have read that the avgas is designed for low RPM's but didn't know if that was just BS.
Most guys will run mystery oil to condition the fuel as AV can be harsh on the valvetrain.

I know lots of people who spin high RPM's with AV with no issues.
 

vdcruiser

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I do get my AV gas at the airport. The current price is $3.43 a gal and I have never seen any ill effects on any of my equipment from running it. Actually one of the main reasons I run it is I have fiberglass tanks and todays pump gas attacks them. Also the motor just runs real clean and the transom doesn't get sooty. We can get ethanol free gas at some stations here. but it is almost as expensive as the AV gas and I have to store it in cans because of the distance the stations are from me.
 

SBMech

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I have read that the avgas is designed for low RPM's but didn't know if that was just BS.
I believe someone is yanking yer chain ;)

I know of several racers who are spinning 9k on AV, without any issues, it's fuel just like any other.

Next time they tell you that, remind them that Turbines in a Jet are going pretty fast rofl. :D
 

78Southwind

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I believe someone is yanking yer chain ;)

I know of several racers who are spinning 9k on AV, without any issues, it's fuel just like any other.

Next time they tell you that, remind them that Turbines in a Jet are going pretty fast rofl. :D
Yeah, maybe it's race fuel propaganda that I am reading.:D But I am specifically speaking to 100LL not Jet Fuel. My understanding is comparing 100LL to Jet Fuel is like comparing Gasoline to Diesel Fuel.
 

78Southwind

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This was taken from another forum by a Chemical Engineer. I researched the Octane of 100LL and the MON is actually 99.6. http://www.aviation-fuel.com/pdfs/avgas100llspecsastmd910_2011.pdf However, the last two points are what I am interested in (Lower Gravity) and (Lower Flame Speed) which would cause a lean at high RPM's.

I've been down this path a few times so I'll give you what I know. I'm a Chemical Engineer and this topic came up during a visit with the Unocal Racing Fuels folks a few years back.

Key points:
-100LL is not 100 octane as we rate it for pump gas (R+M/2). It is actually ~96 octane by that measure.
-Quality and consistency is better than pump
-Shelf life is better than pump.
-Cheaper because you are not paying Road Taxes. Legally it's like running red dye... no no on the street.
-Lower Specific gravity than pump (density) means you actually run leaner with the same jetting.
-Important one here! Lower flame speed than race gas. 100LL is designed for 3500RPM operation. If you run consistently higher than that you will be spitting unburnt fuel out the pipe.
 

78Southwind

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Here's is another post from another forum. It is lengthy but interesting. The previous post and this one explain what I am talking about where the fuel is not designed for higher RPM's. I know in a plane at take off the pilot is able to richen the fuel and lean it for cruising.

Real info on Race Gas/Av Gas...

My experience comes from 7 years as the western states representative for 76 Race Fuel, Unocals 40 hours Advanced Products course, Working personally with Tim Wusz (senior performance products Rep for Unocal, Tim was responsible for Unocals race fuel development for 30+ years). I have also met and discussed fuels/motors with just about every engine builder in every facet of racing in the western United States. I also conducted Educational Seminars at the Fred L. Hartley Institute in Brea in which we would invite Engine Builders for a tour of Unocals testing facilities and do live octane tests on any gasoline they would choose to bring to the seminar. Included in the training we would demonstrate live tests how Distillation curve, Reid Vapor Pressure, Specific Gravity, Octane Rating, F;ashpoint, etc are conducted and the importance of these numbers. Some of you will remember me from contingency with my 76 Racing Gasoline hospitality trailer in the 1990's.

Through the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's Av gas was the base product used for most racing "gasoline". VP, f&L, Turbo Blue, and Trick all used AV gas as the base product. They would buy a tanker (8000 gallons of Av Gas) than add other hydrocarbons/TetraEthylLead (TEL) to the base, drive around the block stopping and accelerating the truck/trailer until they felt the product was mixed well. Obviously this was not science, but it worked for most racers only because most racers use a higher rated octane than they actually need.

In the mid to late 1990's VP graduated to buying there own base product and do there blending of products in a much better fashion. Turbo Blue and Trick have since been bought Sunoco and are blended by Sonoco. Trick was purchased by Phillips 66 and has continued to be blended by Phillips 66.

The only two companies I am aware of who "cracked" there own base product is Sunoco and 76. And as we all know, 76 race fuel is no longer available, leaving only one true manufacturer of Racing Gasoline....Sunoco.

AV Gas has a MOR (motor octane rating) of 96, R+M/2 rating of 100, and ROM (Research Octane Rating) of 106.

AV Gas is lighter than racing gasoline thus more fuel/larger jetting is required. Jetted correctly you should not experience a lean burn at WOT.

I would not use AV Gas as a cleaner. The amount of TEL (2 grams/gallon) and other hydrocarbons makes it extremely carcinogenic. Same goes for all other racing gasolines.

Shelf life is NOT better. The reason pump gas won't last as long is because street gas has extremely lightend hydrocarbons to help your car start and idle. Racing Gasoline does not have these light end hydrocarbons needed for idle and starting, hence the reason race motors start and idle poorly.

Av Gas is NOT designed for low RPM motors. AV Gas is designed to not detonate/preignite causing detination. This would be the same design as race fuel. If you compare the "distillation curve" of AV Gas to Race Gas, you will find they are almost identical. The "distillation curve" controls the speed of burn across the combustion chamber.

You will only "spit" gas out the exhaust pipes if you run to rich or include a supercharger/turbocharger on your engine and "overdrive" the blower. Example would be the bitchin flames you see at the starting line of a drag race on normally aspirated engines and the long flames you see on all "blown" engines.

The LEAD (TEL) added to AV Gas is to increase the octane rating only. All heads these days have harden valve seats. There is no need for lubrication of the valve seats. All engines have come with harden seats since the late 60's.

AV Gas is not formulated for High Altitude. and will have very little, if not any performance differences vs racing gasoline. On the other hand, commercial grade fuels (87, 89, 92) will definitely enhance your performance due to the commercial fuel being oxygenated. The Oxygen enhancers added to commercial fuel is only for California Smog laws.

Advancing timing on your motor will definitely help with AV Gas and Race Gas due to its slow burn characteristics. On the other hand, be careful if your running commercial grade gasoline, more timing can cause detonation/preignition quit quickly.

AV Gas does not go BAD faster. It is extremely consistent. The MOR is only 96, whereas Sunoco Purple or VP C12 is 104. A rating of 96 is good for up to 10:1 on Steel heads and 12:1 on Aluminum heads with water cooling. Air cooled motors run much hotter.

Buying a higher octane for a $20-50K motor is the cheapest insurance available.

Remember this...OCTANE is a measure of a fuels ability to resist detonation/preignition. The higher the Octane number, the slower the fuel burns. Technically speaking 87 Octane fuel will develop more power than 118 Octane fuel. With this said, you should see gains in throttle response and HP by mixing commercial fuel and AV Gas/Race Gas. You now have some light end Hydrocarbons for throttle response and heavy hydrocarbons/TEL for detonation resistance.

Bottom line... use the most consistent fuel you can find and create horsepower by moving as much air as possible though the combustion chamber.

I have no reason to be bias here as I have moved on to much greener pastures. See you on the race course.
 

78Southwind

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So I was talking to Scott Schatz a couple days ago about the Spectra. He told me If you want to drive a blown boat then everything begins and ends with the down peddle. Just made me laugh...:D
 

wash11

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Awesome read. Thanks for taking the time to document this.
 

SBMech

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Here's is another post from another forum. It is lengthy but interesting. The previous post and this one explain what I am talking about where the fuel is not designed for higher RPM's. I know in a plane at take off the pilot is able to richen the fuel and lean it for cruising.

Real info on Race Gas/Av Gas...

My experience comes from 7 years as the western states representative for 76 Race Fuel, Unocals 40 hours Advanced Products course, Working personally with Tim Wusz (senior performance products Rep for Unocal, Tim was responsible for Unocals race fuel development for 30+ years). I have also met and discussed fuels/motors with just about every engine builder in every facet of racing in the western United States. I also conducted Educational Seminars at the Fred L. Hartley Institute in Brea in which we would invite Engine Builders for a tour of Unocals testing facilities and do live octane tests on any gasoline they would choose to bring to the seminar. Included in the training we would demonstrate live tests how Distillation curve, Reid Vapor Pressure, Specific Gravity, Octane Rating, F;ashpoint, etc are conducted and the importance of these numbers. Some of you will remember me from contingency with my 76 Racing Gasoline hospitality trailer in the 1990's.

Through the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's Av gas was the base product used for most racing "gasoline". VP, f&L, Turbo Blue, and Trick all used AV gas as the base product. They would buy a tanker (8000 gallons of Av Gas) than add other hydrocarbons/TetraEthylLead (TEL) to the base, drive around the block stopping and accelerating the truck/trailer until they felt the product was mixed well. Obviously this was not science, but it worked for most racers only because most racers use a higher rated octane than they actually need.

In the mid to late 1990's VP graduated to buying there own base product and do there blending of products in a much better fashion. Turbo Blue and Trick have since been bought Sunoco and are blended by Sonoco. Trick was purchased by Phillips 66 and has continued to be blended by Phillips 66.

The only two companies I am aware of who "cracked" there own base product is Sunoco and 76. And as we all know, 76 race fuel is no longer available, leaving only one true manufacturer of Racing Gasoline....Sunoco.

AV Gas has a MOR (motor octane rating) of 96, R+M/2 rating of 100, and ROM (Research Octane Rating) of 106.

AV Gas is lighter than racing gasoline thus more fuel/larger jetting is required. Jetted correctly you should not experience a lean burn at WOT.

I would not use AV Gas as a cleaner. The amount of TEL (2 grams/gallon) and other hydrocarbons makes it extremely carcinogenic. Same goes for all other racing gasolines.

Shelf life is NOT better. The reason pump gas won't last as long is because street gas has extremely lightend hydrocarbons to help your car start and idle. Racing Gasoline does not have these light end hydrocarbons needed for idle and starting, hence the reason race motors start and idle poorly.

Av Gas is NOT designed for low RPM motors. AV Gas is designed to not detonate/preignite causing detination. This would be the same design as race fuel. If you compare the "distillation curve" of AV Gas to Race Gas, you will find they are almost identical. The "distillation curve" controls the speed of burn across the combustion chamber.

You will only "spit" gas out the exhaust pipes if you run to rich or include a supercharger/turbocharger on your engine and "overdrive" the blower. Example would be the bitchin flames you see at the starting line of a drag race on normally aspirated engines and the long flames you see on all "blown" engines.

The LEAD (TEL) added to AV Gas is to increase the octane rating only. All heads these days have harden valve seats. There is no need for lubrication of the valve seats. All engines have come with harden seats since the late 60's.

AV Gas is not formulated for High Altitude. and will have very little, if not any performance differences vs racing gasoline. On the other hand, commercial grade fuels (87, 89, 92) will definitely enhance your performance due to the commercial fuel being oxygenated. The Oxygen enhancers added to commercial fuel is only for California Smog laws.

Advancing timing on your motor will definitely help with AV Gas and Race Gas due to its slow burn characteristics. On the other hand, be careful if your running commercial grade gasoline, more timing can cause detonation/preignition quit quickly.

AV Gas does not go BAD faster. It is extremely consistent. The MOR is only 96, whereas Sunoco Purple or VP C12 is 104. A rating of 96 is good for up to 10:1 on Steel heads and 12:1 on Aluminum heads with water cooling. Air cooled motors run much hotter.

Buying a higher octane for a $20-50K motor is the cheapest insurance available.

Remember this...OCTANE is a measure of a fuels ability to resist detonation/preignition. The higher the Octane number, the slower the fuel burns. Technically speaking 87 Octane fuel will develop more power than 118 Octane fuel. With this said, you should see gains in throttle response and HP by mixing commercial fuel and AV Gas/Race Gas. You now have some light end Hydrocarbons for throttle response and heavy hydrocarbons/TEL for detonation resistance.

Bottom line... use the most consistent fuel you can find and create horsepower by moving as much air as possible though the combustion chamber.

I have no reason to be bias here as I have moved on to much greener pastures. See you on the race course.
This guy is a little off his rocker, but here he says that it is NOT a low speed fuel.

All the technical jargon in here is stupid, Octane allows you to run more timing, more timing makes more power because you can stuff more air/fuel in before the boom.

It's really pretty simple. He makes it seem complicated, but all octane does is control the flamefront, the event where the fuel burns.

Ohh and the part where he compares "race engines" like the Nitro burning dragster has anything in common with a NA stocker...hehe. You can't compare Nitro Methane to Racing Fuel or AV Gas, they are run and tuned for differently.

Cool article though. :thumbsup
 

78Southwind

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This guy is a little off his rocker, but here he says that it is NOT a low speed fuel.

All the technical jargon in here is stupid, Octane allows you to run more timing, more timing makes more power because you can stuff more air/fuel in before the boom.

It's really pretty simple. He makes it seem complicated, but all octane does is control the flamefront, the event where the fuel burns.

Ohh and the part where he compares "race engines" like the Nitro burning dragster has anything in common with a NA stocker...hehe. You can't compare Nitro Methane to Racing Fuel or AV Gas, they are run and tuned for differently.

Cool article though. :thumbsup
Yeah, it's a little misleading since I took the post out of context. He was saying that it is not a fuel that is only used for low RPM's what he was saying is that if the fuel is used in higher RPM applications then you should jet up. The blower engine is already phat so I am wondering if you really need to jet up. Maybe just use a mix of 91 pump gas and 100LL and have at it.
 

SBMech

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I tend to just go old school with it, plugs will tell the tail.....A nice light chocolate color would be just right. :thumbsup

Always scares me about boat shit though, so much load all the time, can burn shit up quick if something goes wrong under 3/4 load....:yikes

I tend to listen alot though, I love the sound of the motor, only listen to the tunes when parked :D
 

vdcruiser

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78Southwind, did you get my PM about deleting the video ?
 

78Southwind

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So what do you guys think leave it as a two seater? Throw two more buckets in it or a bench?

2014-02-27_16-25-49_865.jpg


2014-02-27_16-26-12_330.jpg
 
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SBMech

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I like them finished out with 2 front seats and a rear bench.

Shag is nice on the feet :D
 

78Southwind

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I had Arrow Trailer replace the rear axle and repack the bearings in the front axle when I first bought the Spectra. I thought all was well but we found out last week that the front axle was bad too. You would think the company when repacking the bearings would have told me that the spindles were badly scarred and pitted. I ended up calling Paul (Budman) here on the boards and he said he would be at my house on Tuesday to take a look. Well as we thought the trailer needs a new front axle so we decided to get the brakes up to par too.

20160601_101705.jpg


20160601_101439.jpg
 
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SBMech

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78SW,

I think that if you could get your buddy to do a GPS pass with MPH recorded it would go a long ways to help you out to sell her.

100 MPH bad blown v-drives are much more marketable than unknown "testing hours' boats.

:thumbsup

Personally I'm pretty sure it will run in the high 90's - 100+. Turn the screw up a little and add pure avgas or race fuel for the runs :D

If I had the extra 30K laying around it would already be in my shop :thumbsup
 

78Southwind

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That's a possibility, Scott Schatz has offered to take it to Lake Elsinore and lay down some passes.

What I heard from Greg's good friend is that the boat is a mid 90 MPH boat with a three blade prop and a low 100 MPH boat with a two blade prop. I was also told there is some video that was shot out in front of Foxes of the Spectra sawing off a Schiada at 102 MPH. Here is a picture of Greg making a pass, which I think was taken at Parker.

Spectra_Greg_Speed.jpg
 
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milkmoney

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That's a possibility, Scott Schatz has offered to take it to Lake Elsinore and lay down some passes.

What I heard from Greg's good friend is that the boat is a mid 90 MPH boat with a three blade prop and a low 100 MPH boat with a two blade prop. I was also told there is some video that was shot out in front of Foxes of the Spectra sawing off a Schiada at 102 MPH. Here is a picture of Greg making a pass, which I think was taken at Needles.

View attachment 492399
I think that pic was at Parker. I think that is Jeremy's helmet. ? Wheeler took it. I could be wrong , although brings back memories.
Rip Greg.
 

78Southwind

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I think that pic was at Parker. I think that is Jeremy's helmet. ? Wheeler took it. I could be wrong , although brings back memories.
Rip Greg.
You're right it's Jeremie's helmet. Where was it in Parker?
 

78Southwind

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So I went and picked up a rim since I hate driving the desert without a spare tire. I am wondering where and how to mount it. Anyone have any good ideas? This is what I am leaning towards.

FSTC1000301_2_500[1].jpg


20160618_113905.jpg
 
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78Southwind

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That's a cool deal. However, every time that my bearings have failed by the time I notice it the spindle is shot too.:smackhead

I think I may still buy though since it's something that would help me limp home while driving through the desert. If I ever have a trailer built I would do torsion axles with replaceable spindles.

SBO-SpareTire-WHub-3[1].jpg
 
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SBMech

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Is your Spectra still up for sale 78SW?
 

78Southwind

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Is your Spectra still up for sale 78SW?
Yes, we just finished replacing the front axle on the boat trailer all the brakes, lines and master cylinder. I also got a new rim and a tire carrier for the spare tire.

I had a couple guys that were interested and one that was interested less engine but I really don't want to sell it less engine. Yesterday, I got a pretty cool email by someone that watched the video link via my craigslist ad. The following is the email::)

OK just watched the video - so the hair on the back of my neck is still standing up what a sweet ride! Wish I had the skins! -
 

SBMech

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Yes, we just finished replacing the front axle on the boat trailer all the brakes, lines and master cylinder. I also got a new rim and a tire carrier for the spare tire.

I had a couple guys that were interested and one that was interested less engine but I really don't want to sell it less engine. Yesterday, I got a pretty cool email by someone that watched the video link via my craigslist ad. The following is the email::)

OK just watched the video - so the hair on the back of my neck is still standing up what a sweet ride! Wish I had the skins! -
Fuck yea, your boat is bad ass :thumbsup

Like I've said before, If I had the cash, it would already be in my driveway :D
 

fullers bud

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Fuck yea, your boat is bad ass :thumbsup

Like I've said before, If I had the cash, it would already be in my driveway :D
Awsome job on the boat! Ive been in it many times and yes over 100! It handles it well. I was gregs best friend and just spoke with the new owner, cool guy, tempted to by myself but my fam would not ride in it. Miss him so much that reading this thread is tough. Glad it made it to someone who is giving it the love that greg gave it. Thanks Fullers bud
 

fullers bud

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Todd W..jpg
Awsome job on the boat! Ive been in it many times and yes over 100! It handles it well. I was gregs best friend and just spoke with the new owner, cool guy, tempted to buy myself but my fam would not ride in it. Miss him so much that reading this thread is tough. Glad it made it to someone who is giving it the love that greg gave it. Thanks Fullers bud
 
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Apex Phillips

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Hey guys just wondering if this boat is still for sale? Funny story, I have grown up around v drives and currently have a blown 21 foot, my father has had sanger flattys , 19 foot spectras (water colors boat) , 24 foot spectra, and recently bought a beautiful 26 foot Nordic from the owner of DMP fasteners.I live in Thousand Oaks and I'd say about 10 years ago I looked out my window and saw this blue boat parked across the street for some weird reason. After Gawking at the boat for at least 10 minutes, I decided I had to go across the street and talk to this guy. I can't for the life of me remember his name but we spoke for at least 30 minutes and I fell in love with the boat . This past weekend we were in Parker for Easter with a bunch of buddies and their Schiada only club. My buddy Aaron schiada took me for a ride and it's beautiful Boostpower marine 22 foot and blew my skirt up pretty good . Later that day sitting at Fox's watching Aaron's dad Ed make passes and his beautiful 21 foot Schiada , this blue boat came up in conversation and I couldn't believe it . Everyone around the table new bits and pieces of information about the boat, and another buddy forest who is currently in the market for a schiada and heading to Parker as we speak to purchase one said he had spoken to the owner of this blue spectra and thought it was currently for sale . He's actually the one who sent this link to this thread , which I hoped to find and phone number on with no successid . So I started my RDP membership yesterday and here I am today lol . Sorry for the novel but I had to find out if this thing is still for sale. Thanks guys
 

78Southwind

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Hey guys just wondering if this boat is still for sale? Funny story, I have grown up around v drives and currently have a blown 21 foot, my father has had sanger flattys , 19 foot spectras (water colors boat) , 24 foot spectra, and recently bought a beautiful 26 foot Nordic from the owner of DMP fasteners.I live in Thousand Oaks and I'd say about 10 years ago I looked out my window and saw this blue boat parked across the street for some weird reason. After Gawking at the boat for at least 10 minutes, I decided I had to go across the street and talk to this guy. I can't for the life of me remember his name but we spoke for at least 30 minutes and I fell in love with the boat . This past weekend we were in Parker for Easter with a bunch of buddies and their Schiada only club. My buddy Aaron schiada took me for a ride and it's beautiful Boostpower marine 22 foot and blew my skirt up pretty good . Later that day sitting at Fox's watching Aaron's dad Ed make passes and his beautiful 21 foot Schiada , this blue boat came up in conversation and I couldn't believe it . Everyone around the table new bits and pieces of information about the boat, and another buddy forest who is currently in the market for a schiada and heading to Parker as we speak to purchase one said he had spoken to the owner of this blue spectra and thought it was currently for sale . He's actually the one who sent this link to this thread , which I hoped to find and phone number on with no successid . So I started my RDP membership yesterday and here I am today lol . Sorry for the novel but I had to find out if this thing is still for sale. Thanks guys
It's still for sale. When I get back home in hour or so I will PM you my number.
 

78Southwind

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I wonder if I was speaking to Mr Fuller himself maybe someone knows . 78sw thx
Yeah, I am pretty sure that you were talking to Greg. I sent you a PM with my number if for some reason you can't get PMs yet here is my google number 626-408-2542.
 

SBMech

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Still for sale 78Southwind? Man she looks fantastic!
 

78Southwind

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Still for sale 78Southwind? Man she looks fantastic!
Yep, haven't worked real hard on selling it though. If it sells it sells if not I will use when I get better.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

78Southwind

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I was going through some old pictures for someone that is interested in the Spectra and found this one I took inside Gary's (Greg's Father) house. Look at what picture is chance. I thought it was pretty cool so I took a picture of it when I bought the boat from Gary.

Spectra Chance.JPG


Greg Spectra.jpg
 
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