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Ada restroom in older building questions.

DaBank

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Older 1000sqft office with one restroom, building was originally a house in the 1960's and restroom was remodeled in the early 2000's.
Restroom is 5'x9' attached is a rough diagram of the restroom, is this layout within Ada guidelines?
 

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Bobby V

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Older 1000sqft office with one restroom, building was originally a house in the 1960's and restroom was remodeled in the early 2000's.
Restroom is 5'x9' attached is a rough diagram of the restroom, is this layout within Ada guidelines?
Looks like you will need a couple grab bars on the walls for the toilet. Also a 60" turning radius for a wheelchair is what i have heard.
 

wettrthebettr

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You could do what lots of businesses, Do is to not Offer a bathroom to anyone, just say we do not have a bathroom. Thats what lots of people do so you will not have to comply.
 

DaBank

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Looks like you will need a couple grab bars on the walls for the toilet. Also a 60" turning radius for a wheelchair is what i have heard.
I can not find a layout or diagram online with the door on the same wall as this restroom to compare it to.
I know grab handles have to be installed and a mirror that is lowered. Not sure if the door is able to swing in or should swing out? I am also looking to see how far off the ground the sink drain has to be?
 

Loo Dog

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Grab bars as mentioned before, and must have a full 60” diameter space to turn around. Sink countertop can not exceed 34” and must be “open” to wheel under it with a maximum reach over of 24”. Bath accessories such as paper towel dispensers, etc must also be at compliant height not to exceed 48” above the floor.
 

Big B Hova

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toilet 18" CL to from wall.
Certain height toilet needed (don't recall)
36" grab bar needed on side of toilet and 24" behind toilet.
Toilet paper holder 17-19" to CL above finish floor. 7-9" from tip of toilet to CL of roll.
Door would need to be 36" wide. (might be able to get away with 34" door)
Door needs 18" clearance on latch side of door frame (pull side) and 12" on push side
threshold for door can't be higher than 1/4"
60" turn around needed in bathroom with out hitting anything.
mirror 40"max Above finish floor to reflective surface
Sink min' 18" off side wall
Sink 34" max height
Faucets need to be ADA compliant so someone with a hook for a hand can use them.
Outlets need to be a certain height for reach (not sure)
Light switch needs to be certain height and with an occupancy sensor I believe
 

Big B Hova

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It also depends on what year the building permit was pulled as to what ADA standards it will be held to.

Also, up to interpretation by any scumbag lawyer

(Ive done 3 hospitals of restroom toilet room accessories lol)
 

yz450mm

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It's most likely not within current Ada specs..

Do you have a new tenant moving in that will require a certificate of occupancy inspection? Or somebody that is going to pull plans to do a tenant Improvement? If neither of the above apply, they generally can't force you to do any upgrades.

Building inspectors are pretty serious about ADA compliance these days, if it's not within specs, it's not going to fly. Better to just get it done and over with and be compliant, than to try and fight it.

Where is the building at?

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SoCalDave

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Hope you don't open a can of worms on this subject. Is there ada parking available, is the entrance to the building ada compliant, etc.
If the ADA nazis get wind of a non compliant situation they tend to go after your ass.
 

Wheeler

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Hope you don't open a can of worms on this subject. Is there ada parking available, is the entrance to the building ada compliant, etc.
If the ADA nazis get wind of a non compliant situation they tend to go after your ass.
No shit! That gimp of an attorney that makes his living off of suing people for non compliance got my brother a few years back. :mad:
 

DirtyWhiteDog

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Does it meet today's ADA ? No
If the bathroom was a permitted remodel in 2000, the code adopted by the city at that time would apply. It is close but, you could never get the 5' turning radius. The sink is probably good for side access. It really depends on what you are doing to the office, depending on state and city's adopted code. It is a percentage of value of the upgrade that requires the bathroom to be compliant. As an office it's not required to be open to the public, but still needs to meet accessibility minimums. On a side note the new zoom on pic's sense the RDP upgrade REALLY SUCKS.
 

DaBank

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toilet 18" CL to from wall.
Certain height toilet needed (don't recall)
36" grab bar needed on side of toilet and 24" behind toilet.
Toilet paper holder 17-19" to CL above finish floor. 7-9" from tip of toilet to CL of roll.
Door would need to be 36" wide. (might be able to get away with 34" door)
Door needs 18" clearance on latch side of door frame (pull side) and 12" on push side
threshold for door can't be higher than 1/4"
60" turn around needed in bathroom with out hitting anything.
mirror 40"max Above finish floor to reflective surface
Sink min' 18" off side wall
Sink 34" max height
Faucets need to be ADA compliant so someone with a hook for a hand can use them.
Outlets need to be a certain height for reach (not sure)
Light switch needs to be certain height and with an occupancy sensor I believe
I do not understand the door requirements, based on my drawing are you saying I need 12in on the hinged side ? If so the diagram you supplied shows the door swinging even with wall like my drawing.
I wish I could find a layout online that has the toilet and sink on one wall and the door opening/swinging against the opposite wall like my drawing.

The restroom is not changing and the only thing that is being touched is installing grab bars and a point of use hot water unit. New interior doors are going to be installed and I was wondering if it would be better to keep the door swinging into the restroom or to swing out into the office?
My original question is with all these Ada requirements is a 5x9 footprint going to work in the future or can they make you change the original restroom footprint that has not changed since the 1960's?
 

Bobby V

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I do not understand the door requirements, based on my drawing are you saying I need 12in on the hinged side ? If so the diagram you supplied shows the door swinging even with wall like my drawing.
I wish I could find a layout online that has the toilet and sink on one wall and the door opening/swinging against the opposite wall like my drawing.

The restroom is not changing and the only thing that is being touched is installing grab bars and a point of use hot water unit. New interior doors are going to be installed and I was wondering if it would be better to keep the door swinging into the restroom or to swing out into the office?
My original question is with all these Ada requirements is a 5x9 footprint going to work in the future or can they make you change the original restroom footprint that has not changed since the 1960's?
The door needs to swing into the restroom.
 

DaBank

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Does it meet today's ADA ? No
If the bathroom was a permitted remodel in 2000, the code adopted by the city at that time would apply. It is close but, you could never get the 5' turning radius. The sink is probably good for side access. It really depends on what you are doing to the office, depending on state and city's adopted code. It is a percentage of value of the upgrade that requires the bathroom to be compliant. As an office it's not required to be open to the public, but still needs to meet accessibility minimums. On a side note the new zoom on pic's sense the RDP upgrade REALLY SUCKS.
Does it meet today's ADA ? No
If the bathroom was a permitted remodel in 2000, the code adopted by the city at that time would apply. It is close but, you could never get the 5' turning radius. The sink is probably good for side access. It really depends on what you are doing to the office, depending on state and city's adopted code. It is a percentage of value of the upgrade that requires the bathroom to be compliant. As an office it's not required to be open to the public, but still needs to meet accessibility minimums. On a side note the new zoom on pic's sense the RDP upgrade REALLY SUCKS.
Thank you for the information.
What do you mean by the sink is probably good for side access?

The 5 foot turning radius is tough when the restroom is only 5ft wide.
It looks like it meets the requirements if I am reading it right for 18" CL of toilet from outside wall and 48" from edge of toilet to edge of sink and having a 36" door? It has a Ada approved toilet and sink mounted at the proper height. The only thing missing is the 2 grab handles?
 

braindead

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Save yourself a bunch of trouble and close it off to the public!
Don't try and bring it up to code or make it compliant, you're just opening a big can o worms.

The room as-is is too small to be compliant, so unless you want to start moving walls, upgrading foundations, adding shear walls and wasting a lot of money on something that doesn't need it, just let it be!
 

Carlson-jet

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Throw a sign "By appointment only" and "No public restrooms" on the front door.
After another 24 hours, delete this thread. ;)
 

Bobby V

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Save yourself a bunch of trouble and close it off to the public!
Don't try and bring it up to code or make it compliant, you're just opening a big can o worms.

The room as-is is too small to be compliant, so unless you want to start moving walls, upgrading foundations, adding shear walls and wasting a lot of money on something that doesn't need it, just let it be!
When we did our remodel at my office we had to upgrade both the women’s and men’s bathrooms. Was a tight fit but we made it work. We aren’t open to the public.
 

braindead

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When we did our remodel at my office we had to upgrade both the women’s and men’s bathrooms. Was a tight fit but we made it work. We aren’t open to the public.
Being open to the public opens more lawsuits from scumbag lawyers who file ADA claims while not being disabled.
And since it was a "business" that did a remodel it is expected to bring it up to ADA compliances, since it could hire a disabled person in the future.
 

DLC

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the issue is if you ever pull a permit then you will have to update,

access to building from parking lot and street sidewalk / curb
ada parking spot, van accessible
bathroom
to name a few items

looking at your pic I don’t think you have the 60 inch circle, the sink is to close to toilet, you can move sink closer to door wall and you’ll probably get it. Moving the sink is easy as long as the wall has FRP and not tile
the problem with ada is it’s either meets code or it’s wrong and needs to be fixed, close doesn’t count.

a few things
the door lockset needs to be a lever type privacy where someone can push it with a stump to open
also faucet needs to be self metering hot/cold
ada signage centered on door 60“ CL off finish floor and also next to door jam on the swing side same hight
cove base needs to be 6in and have a 5/8 cove where it meets the floor
cover hot water supply line and drain line with an insulated wrap
washable surface on wet walls up to 48” above floor

some of the requirements seem to get carried away some

you can hire a disabled person as an employee so it doesn’t matter if it’s open to public
 

Carlson-jet

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I'm not super smart but with a S/N DaBank might invite.. Let's just say civil opportunities that I would wish on nobody ever.
 

LuauLounge

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Just a thought.....
A couple of the places that we frequent have ADA Porta Potties in the parking lot.
Meets the requirements and is a xxxxload less expensive.
Also, a client bought a building and planned their remodeling around the existing ADA bathrooms, that didn’t meet current codes. Wasn’t caught until the final inspection.
 

wettrthebettr

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Save yourself a bunch of trouble and close it off to the public!
Don't try and bring it up to code or make it compliant, you're just opening a big can o worms.

The room as-is is too small to be compliant, so unless you want to start moving walls, upgrading foundations, adding shear walls and wasting a lot of money on something that doesn't need it, just let it be!
Thats is what I said in an earlier post, Just say I do not have a bathroom, lots of businesses do not offer bathrooms to the public.
 

Rbcconst

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Older 1000sqft office with one restroom, building was originally a house in the 1960's and restroom was remodeled in the early 2000's.
Restroom is 5'x9' attached is a rough diagram of the restroom, is this layout within Ada guidelines?
It is not. The code has changed in the last 5 years so even your 7’x7’ standard restaurant bathroom is not up to the new code. On top of the 5’ turning radius you need 48” clearance in front of the toilet and you need 60” clear space from the toilet to the sink. You need a 30”w X 48” clear space for the sink, the 48” might be from the drain. Plus all the grab bars and bs ect. The door can also swing to the outside if its an issue.

You would need to fact check this at the city but its my understanding that if you are only moving in to the space and it was ada compliant before then you dont have to update it. However if you are remodeling you will need to address it. And in remodeling you can claim a hardship if the cost are insane or its just not feasible, for instance on our last TI the wall that needed to move was a bearing wall for a business upstairs and the exterior doorway would have had to be relocated.

ADA has been a major thing in our last 2 commercial remodels. One wanted an ada path of travel to the dumpster and the dumpster gate re done. It was a 6k sqft office building with several employees, who is going to make the guy/girl with the wheelchair take the trash out?


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DaBank

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Thank you for all the responses.
I am not doing a remodel and I am just asking for future if someday I would be required to upgrade a footprint that is to small.
I was going to install a couple of damaged doors and just wanted to make sure the restroom door swinging in was ok and if not would replace it also.
So obviously by asking about Ada there is way more than just the restroom if upgrades were to be made to a 1960's property.
 

Bigbore500r

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@DaBank I think you already have your answer, but that size restroom is not able to be made ADA compliant in it's current size. You'd need to move walls to make anything happen.
 

DaBank

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All the diagrams online show the sink has to be a min of 48" from the CL of the toilet so a total of 60" from wall and this restroom has that lay out currently. The diagrams also show the sink has to be 18" off the wall to the CL of sink drain, my question is the 18" the min or the max? Because right now the sink is 22" from the wall. I was also told a floor drain is required now?
 

Bigbore500r

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All the diagrams online show the sink has to be a min of 48" from the CL of the toilet so a total of 60" from wall and this restroom has that lay out currently. The diagrams also show the sink has to be 18" off the wall to the CL of sink drain, my question is the 18" the min or the max? Because right now the sink is 22" from the wall. I was also told a floor drain is required now?
18" is the minimum clear from wall to center of sink, so you should be fine there. You need 30" wide x 48" deep unobstructed approach in front of the sink though I believe, so check that. Also - watch paper towel dispensers or any type of wall mounted TRA. if they project into that clearance you will have trouble, or if mounted above the sink on the wall, you may be 22" away to wall, but that 8" deep paper towel dispenser is now 14" away from sink center and you fail.
 

hallett21

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If you google “LADBS ADA bathroom” you can get city of LAs drawings and specs.

Not sure of you’re location.


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DirtyWhiteDog

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Lot of bad information in this thread. If you are not remodeling and the bathroom was permitted, there should be no reason to come up to current code. If you are this concerned, all permits for your particular address (and all addresses) are public record. Go talk to your local building department, find out if it complied when the work was done. And what value of new permitted work to the office space would trigger a mandatory bathroom upgrade. Even after 35 years in the construction industry, I break out my current ANSI book to verify all the dimensions.
 

Cole Brewed

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New question for this older thread.
What is the minimum approved ceiling height in an ADA restroom? I was able to find residential info but no commercial info..
 

Sherpa

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Ada compliant toilets (commercial type) cost about the same as non-ada... and the only difference is about 3” taller for the ada unit, which if your a taller person is great!

also no under-sink cabinetry allowed since wheelchair access is required, as is all under sink plumbing must be insulated so the wheel chair user cannot be hurt by hot water lines under the basin.
 

DLC

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What is your ceiling high?

anything over 7ft should be good, typical ceiling is 8 ft, ground /head clearance is 6ft 8 inch is absolutely lowest hight!
you need a 36in wide door or a clear 32inch wide opening

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38633A48-5F64-41DC-A105-7FEAB2AD099A.jpeg
 

500bbc

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Grab bars as mentioned before, and must have a full 60” diameter space to turn around. Sink countertop can not exceed 34” and must be “open” to wheel under it with a maximum reach over of 24”. Bath accessories such as paper towel dispensers, etc must also be at compliant height not to exceed 48” above the floor.
Same if was upstairs...
 
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