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Advantage 20.5 needs pump work!

Daniel Wolfe

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1993 that I bought as second owner in 1998. I have done minor stuff to motor. Pump has never been touched other than droop snoot and nozzle. I talked with GS about blueprinting pump and installing inducer. Do you think I should do a shoe and ride plate along with loader grate or just clean and responder coat it. Impeller does not look bad on visual. Reason for all this is I had some vibration in the pump and tightened bolts at the bearing. Turns out I just needed to grease the zero in bowl. I always do the zero at the bearing but slacked on bowl. Now I have a whine that is either bearing or over tightening of packing. Thoughts?
 

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brgrcru

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After 20+ years , I nice rebuild would be a good idea.
As it's not a race boat, a basic rebuild , would be good to go.
Or you could step it up up with more of a performance grate, inducer , ride plate. But you'll be spending a bit more .
 

brgrcru

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I think its worth spending a little more money. having a ride plate, shoe and new intake grate with the inducer, installed.
defiantly will ride and perform better and gain some out of the hole and top speed.
but your looking at going from $500/700 for a rebuild to $2/2500 for everything else.
depends on your budget?
 

jetboatperformance

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1993 that I bought as second owner in 1998. I have done minor stuff to motor. Pump has never been touched other than droop snoot and nozzle. I talked with GS about blueprinting pump and installing inducer. Do you think I should do a shoe and ride plate along with loader grate or just clean and responder coat it. Impeller does not look bad on visual. Reason for all this is I had some vibration in the pump and tightened bolts at the bearing. Turns out I just needed to grease the zero in bowl. I always do the zero at the bearing but slacked on bowl. Now I have a whine that is either bearing or over tightening of packing. Thoughts?

Helo , Blue on here tipped me off to your thread , We are a 25 year family business with an excellent reputation , we only work on jet drives , we are also a manufacturer of drive prts and components , please feel free to call when its convenient I'm around 7 days a week 14 hrs a day to chat Tom.... (shop phone rings to my personal cell) 805 466 4719
 

old rigger

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Thanks, that’s pretty much what I was thinking

I disagree on the extra hardware. That hull does pretty well with a little HP and no shoe and ride plate. Most boats don't need them, it's a great thing to offer when selling a boat but most of the time its unnecessary.

We did one of these back in the 80s, no shoe/rideplate but we did slip in a McClaren prepped BBC. (we had some on the rack for another program we had going, we didn't not own the engines) This was for a magazine test on 20 foot jets, stock. Ours looked stock but it ran over 70 right out of the box. With the stock BBC's back then, I don't remember what they were rated at, those numbers were never too accurate anyway, it'd run mid 60s. Everyone knew when we fired it up that it wasn't stock but everyone else did shit like that too. It was the fastest boat in the article and of course we also received high marks for the gel because we had the best guy in the biz at the time. Same guy shot yours.

If it were me, I'd just do a rebuild on the pump, maybe add a few goodies inside.

One of my all time favorite boats.
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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Nice.. love the boat.. did the droop help at all when you installed it? What benefits did you see? I see it has a ride plate already also.. just out of curiosity what engine is in it? What does it run for mph now?
 

Daniel Wolfe

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Depends on how you want to run. Do you plan on more HP in the future? If so the ride plate, shoe, inducer loader grate, blueprint job is great prep for more power. If it's going to be mild just a basic rebuild should suffice. I assume and looks to be an aluminum impeller which are typically good up to 450-500 HP. It looks like ,based off what I can see in your pics, to be devoid of any damage or debris that would cause an imbalance and vibration. It could be reused if specs are good with the addition of a new wear ring. Anything over 500 HP should probably step up to bronze or SS. Same with the shaft, stock is good for up to around 500HP or you can go with an aquamet shaft which is good for beyond 500 HP. They come pre-machined for the inducer as well. As brgrcru stated above it is a very, VERY good idea to go through it at that age just to bring your performance and efficiency back up. Also depends on your budget and power or planned future power to your pump. Although not totally necessary, if I was in there I'd go with a loader grate and an inducer with a shoe and ride plate. The two formers will give you increased hole shot and efficiency while the two latters will give you ride fine tuning and pump angle of attack adjustability. Your gland packings should not be over tightened as they are water cooled/lubricated. About 3-6 drops per minute from the front of where the shaft enters the packing glands tunnel, when running is normal. It also sounds as if your bowl bearing probably took a dump and usually that means the tail of the shaft is toasted where it rides on bearing is scored beyond repair. That is most likely the cause of the vibration. That, unfortunately, means you are probably going to need a new shaft. :oops::( From what you describe, I'd recommend you go through it sooner rather that later. You could milk it along by keeping the tail bearing greased/oiled but, it could get a bit ugly and expensive if you ignore your baby's whining. How much cash and how far into it you want to go into it depends on you, your wallet size and what you expect from your ride present and/or future. Hope this helps. :)
Edit: On second glance, it looks as if you have a ride plate on the snoot already that could be extended to a shoe if one were to be installed.
BTW, nice ride!
 

Daniel Wolfe

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Thanks guys. I appreciate all the help. The motor is an old indmar 454. I put msd ignition, intake manifold, demon carb, electric fuel pump. The droop and ride plate with place diverted made a big difference on top end. At eye level she wakes up. I plan on doing my pump this year. I have a single plane dart manifold on the shelf. I would like to do a 509 long block with aluminum heads and some new exhaust in a year or two and then new interior. It’s a family boat, but i love the boat but would like to freshen her up. I’ll probably spend the extra and do the inducer and grate. Still not sure if a shoe would help that much, but would look good.. On GPS hand held 66mph is the top speed that I’ve ran on the lake.
 

caribbean20

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Thanks guys. I appreciate all the help. The motor is an old indmar 454. I put msd ignition, intake manifold, demon carb, electric fuel pump. The droop and ride plate with place diverted made a big difference on top end. At eye level she wakes up. I plan on doing my pump this year. I have a single plane dart manifold on the shelf. I would like to do a 509 long block with aluminum heads and some new exhaust in a year or two and then new interior. It’s a family boat, but i love the boat but would like to freshen her up. I’ll probably spend the extra and do the inducer and grate. Still not sure if a shoe would help that much, but would look good.. On GPS hand held 66mph is the top speed that I’ve ran on the lake.
I had pretty much the exact same hull, mine was a 20.5 Caribbean, 1988, that I owned for 25 years. The biggest speed increase I ever saw was from the droop, ride plate and shoe that GS installed/machined.

I had a 502 with EMI thunder exhaust and Dart aluminum heads. My pump was a Berkeley blueprinted with a Mag/Bronze impeller (also done by GS). Top speed on GPS was 77.1, and it would run low to mid 70s all day. I’m pretty sure the Advantage, Carrera and Caribbean hulls were identical.

This is another data point for you.
 

Daniel Wolfe

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77 would be good. Want to keep my seating layout as if I did a straight back seat instead of the dog house I think I’ll loose a lot of room. I like the solid back but seams my bow is longer than most and don’t want to loose my ski locker. So I need to make sure whatever exhaust I go to fits under dog house
 

caribbean20

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77 would be good. Want to keep my seating layout as if I did a straight back seat instead of the dog house I think I’ll loose a lot of room. I like the solid back but seams my bow is longer than most and don’t want to loose my ski locker. So I need to make sure whatever exhaust I go to fits under dog house
Looking at your engine hatch, you are probably running stock “log style” exhaust manifolds. As you can probably see from the boat in my avatar, I changed to a solid back seat to run the EMIs (my boat when stock had the logs and same engine hatch as yours). 66 MPH for a fun family cruiser is pretty good. That exhaust is a bottle neck and if you don’t want to mess with that, probably best to just leave well enough alone.

I spent SO much money on mine over the years. I can tell you about a myriad of mods I made in the quest for faster top end. SO much money but it was a fun journey:)
 

old rigger

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@old rigger

Just curious, did Advantage keep the 20 Bonneville mold?

I don’t know. I see them build an 18 bubble now and then along with the 20 Classic, but I haven’t seen a new Bonnie in a long time.
Rogers 20 Bonnie went to who ever bought his molds but there’s been no action there either.
 

old rigger

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Now that I've been thinking about it, I think there was only one hull mold and 2 deck molds, a jet and OB, for the 20 Bonnie. If I remember right there was a agreement with that mold between Roger and Harry. I think it the end it went back to Roger...but I'm not 100% on that.

Too many years ago and too many molds in my past!
 

Daniel Wolfe

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Old Rigger can you tell me is there a big difference between the floor layout on my boat and the newer 20.5 Classic? What I’m trying to figure out is if the ice chest and ski locker are farther forward in the newer boats to accommodate the bench back seat and solid back hatch? I am trying to figure out if I want to change the layout when I redo my interior.
 

old rigger

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Old Rigger can you tell me is there a big difference between the floor layout on my boat and the newer 20.5 Classic? What I’m trying to figure out is if the ice chest and ski locker are farther forward in the newer boats to accommodate the bench back seat and solid back hatch? I am trying to figure out if I want to change the layout when I redo my interior.

Going by the first pic you posted , it looks exactly the same as what we did in the 80's. Same cut out for the open bow, same hardware placement on the deck except for the little round pop ups, we didn't have those yet. Without seeing it I'd guess the ski locker is in the same spot as well. I don't remember there being a different placement for them when doing a bench seat, motor box, I/O, jet or outboard.
 
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