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Africa Hunting

McKay

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Not specifically talking about this board but in general of all the comments I have been seeing over the past few days there are lots of extremely clueless people that do not understand the benefits of "Trophy Hunting" and how it actually works. Especially when talking about Africa. To be fair and upfront I have hunted in Africa 4 times. 3 of those hunts have been in Zimbabwe.

While I think all the facts will come out in this case in due time I am not personally going to make a judgement on the dentist weather he knew all the facts or not on the legality of the hunt. If this was illegal than I am all for prosecuting every one that knowingly participated in this crime to the fullest extent of the law. So with that said I would like to share my feelings on proper trophy/sport hunting and the benefits.

The vast majority of Africa is not all a National Park. There are hundreds of Parks and Game preserves that are just loaded with game which are supported from the photo tourism side of the industry. Now the remaining parts of Africa with wildlife, let?s say 95% are not protected areas and the locals are living with wildlife. The game is not as plentiful and or the terrain is not usually conducive to finding and seeing the game as easily or in numbers as you would need to support photo tourism. In most cases you are talking about very impoverished society who does not care about the protection of anything. They only care about day to day survival, and if that means killing (usually poisoning) the very last lion on the planet to keep his cattle or him alive then they don?t think for one second about it.

So in these area?s it is the hunter?s dollars that allow the locals to "tolerate" game and not wipe it out. Three of the four trips I have been the only hunter in camp. The usual number of staff in the hunting camps I have stayed in were around 15-20 full time employed locals that are making a damn good wage compared to the very few other jobs available. These are usually men who have large families. Not unheard of for them to have 2-4 wives and piles of children. On all of my hunts all the meat has gone to staff and the local communities. They don?t waste a thing.

In Zimbabwe all hunting areas have a quota system. I am by no means saying it is perfect but Zimbabwe?s government sets up the annual quota that can be hunted and keep game populations sustainable. The quota details every species with a quantity that can be hunted down to even ducks and game birds.

Lots of people are in an uproar over the whole baiting deal in general. There are very few areas in Africa where the terrain is conducive to tracking a lion or leopard. I?ve heard of it done in very sandy areas like in the Kalahari but normally you only find cat tracks when crossing a road of river bottom. So that leaves baiting. (Think how successful you would be fishing without bait) But don?t think that baiting a lion is a slam dunk. Many, many lion hunts are unsuccessful. And most of these hunts are sold as 21 day hunts or longer. Proper selection of old male lions is critical for making hunting sustainable. With some countries like Tanzania making it law that only 6 year and older lions are hunted. I won?t get in the details of aging cats as that is a whole different issue that I am by no means an expert at. But I will say, if Cecil was truly 13-14 years old like being reported I would be extremely surprised if he was still breading and had cubs. The $55,000 or so they say the dentist paid for the lion hunt is actually on the lower side of what most lion hunts cost. They can easily get into 6 figures.

The bottom line is the only way that wildlife conservation works in the majority of Africa is to have Sport Hunting dollars pouring into the local communities. Every African country that has banned hunting the wildlife population has always suffered. Animals that don?t pay their own way do not stay.
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Well stated. Another way to look at things.

snare.jpg

snare2.jpg

snare5.jpg

snared3.jpg

snared4.jpg

I personally have found, while in the bush, at least 100 snares. The indigenous people place them, Sport hunters, The only other people in the bush, find and remove them.

But please carry on.
 

Skinny Tire AH

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You the same Nganga from AR?

Fuck that place. :D

Yup. I quit posting over there. Saeed hates me because I'm not one of his sycophants. These guys are more fun. They just don't get the whole sport hunting aspect of conservation.
 

Old Texan

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Animal Conservation is a science that isn't often recognized by reactionary Liberals. Without current big game hunting contributions, there would likely be far less animals in Africa period......

Unfortunately one has to be quite cautious when discussing the topic as emotions wash out the facts.
 

McKay

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Fuck that place. :D

Yup. I quit posting over there. Saeed hates me because I'm not one of his sycophants. These guys are more fun. They just don't get the whole sport hunting aspect of conservation.


Haha, I go through phases hanging out there. Usually more around hunting season.
 

dtp92648

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Well said Mckay... I have been working in the firearms business for the past 12 years (emphasis on the hunting side) and I have purposely avoided getting involved in these threads. But McKay basically explained the "other" side of the story that most people are not aware of. Being involved in this business, I can without a doubt GUARANTEE hunters have done more for wildlife conservation (both domestically and abroad) than your standard PETA member.

Personally... it's hard for me to have a personal opinion on the specific hunt because I (like everybody else) don't have all of the details of an incident that happened half a world away. If its shown it was illegal... prosecute the dude to the fullest extent of the law!!!

But... like most things in this world. Don't lump all hunters into the same category as one suspected knucklehead.
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Well said Mckay... I have been working in the firearms business for the past 12 years (emphasis on the hunting side) and I have purposely avoided getting involved in these threads. But McKay basically explained the "other" side of the story that most people are not aware of. Being involved in this business, I can without a doubt GUARANTEE hunters have done more for wildlife conservation (both domestically and abroad) than your standard PETA member.

Personally... it's hard for me to have a personal opinion on the specific hunt because I (like everybody else) don't have all of the details of an incident that happened a half a world away. If its shown it was illegal... prosecute the dude to the fullest extent of the law!!!

But... like most things in this world. Don't lump all hunters into the same category as one suspected knucklehead.

All one need do is simply compare the wildlife densities and numbers of two adjoining countries. Kenya/Tanzania, Kenya closed hunting in 1977, Tanzania closed hunting in 1973 and re-opened it again in 1978 seeing what was happening to their wildlife numbers.

Kenya has never re-opened hunting. The estimated Lion population in both countries are, Kenya 2-3,000 and Tanzania has about 20,000. Figure it out. There are ZERO animals outside the National Parks of Kenya.
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Yes, mostly post in double rifle section.

I haven't been on AR for about 10 months. I did hang out in the DR forum. Cal is a very close friend of mine and also my editor. :D
 

McKay

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I haven't been on AR for about 10 months. I did hang out in the DR forum. Cal is a very close friend of mine and also my editor. :D

Sweet. I liked his 600 book. Don't have his new one. What do you write?
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Sweet. I liked his 600 book. Don't have his new one. What do you write?

I have his .600 book and Greame Wrights book as well. Cal is a hoot, we went to Australia together. He nearly got thrown in Jail in Sydney. :D

I have a monthly column in the African Hunter. Do you get it?
 

McKay

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I have, can't say that I still get it. Would need to check. All my new hunting magazines have been getting piled up over the last few months. Been spending too much time on the water this summer. I'll get back to that other hobby in a month or so.
 

Skinny Tire AH

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I have, can't say that I still get it. Would need to check. All my new hunting magazines have been getting piled up over the last few months. Been spending too much time on the water this summer. I'll get back to that other hobby in a month or so.

:thumbup:
 

TBI

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Not specifically talking about this board but in general of all the comments I have been seeing over the past few days there are lots of extremely clueless people that do not understand the benefits of "Trophy Hunting" and how it actually works. Especially when talking about Africa. To be fair and upfront I have hunted in Africa 4 times. 3 of those hunts have been in Zimbabwe.

While I think all the facts will come out in this case in due time I am not personally going to make a judgement on the dentist weather he knew all the facts or not on the legality of the hunt. If this was illegal than I am all for prosecuting every one that knowingly participated in this crime to the fullest extent of the law. So with that said I would like to share my feelings on proper trophy/sport hunting and the benefits.

The vast majority of Africa is not all a National Park. There are hundreds of Parks and Game preserves that are just loaded with game which are supported from the photo tourism side of the industry. Now the remaining parts of Africa with wildlife, let?s say 95% are not protected areas and the locals are living with wildlife. The game is not as plentiful and or the terrain is not usually conducive to finding and seeing the game as easily or in numbers as you would need to support photo tourism. In most cases you are talking about very impoverished society who does not care about the protection of anything. They only care about day to day survival, and if that means killing (usually poisoning) the very last lion on the planet to keep his cattle or him alive then they don?t think for one second about it.

So in these area?s it is the hunter?s dollars that allow the locals to "tolerate" game and not wipe it out. Three of the four trips I have been the only hunter in camp. The usual number of staff in the hunting camps I have stayed in were around 15-20 full time employed locals that are making a damn good wage compared to the very few other jobs available. These are usually men who have large families. Not unheard of for them to have 2-4 wives and piles of children. On all of my hunts all the meat has gone to staff and the local communities. They don?t waste a thing.

In Zimbabwe all hunting areas have a quota system. I am by no means saying it is perfect but Zimbabwe?s government sets up the annual quota that can be hunted and keep game populations sustainable. The quota details every species with a quantity that can be hunted down to even ducks and game birds.

Lots of people are in an uproar over the whole baiting deal in general. There are very few areas in Africa where the terrain is conducive to tracking a lion or leopard. I?ve heard of it done in very sandy areas like in the Kalahari but normally you only find cat tracks when crossing a road of river bottom. So that leaves baiting. (Think how successful you would be fishing without bait) But don?t think that baiting a lion is a slam dunk. Many, many lion hunts are unsuccessful. And most of these hunts are sold as 21 day hunts or longer. Proper selection of old male lions is critical for making hunting sustainable. With some countries like Tanzania making it law that only 6 year and older lions are hunted. I won?t get in the details of aging cats as that is a whole different issue that I am by no means an expert at. But I will say, if Cecil was truly 13-14 years old like being reported I would be extremely surprised if he was still breading and had cubs. The $55,000 or so they say the dentist paid for the lion hunt is actually on the lower side of what most lion hunts cost. They can easily get into 6 figures.

The bottom line is the only way that wildlife conservation works in the majority of Africa is to have Sport Hunting dollars pouring into the local communities. Every African country that has banned hunting the wildlife population has always suffered. Animals that don?t pay their own way do not stay.
Are you trying to tell us that you're a dentist?


:D
 
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