WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Always pay cash 😁

hallett21

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Since this is a real estate and financial forum .

My parents were born in 58/59. They engrained in my brother (25) and I (30) to always pay for toys (depreciating assets) in cash.

And he and I have stuck to that for the most part, vehicles being the exception.

My question to those older and wiser than myself. Was that stance taken due to the rates of the 70s, 80s, 90s?

In my adult lifetime loan rates have been quite low (relatively to my parents). And you could argue that appreciation/inflation has outrun the interest you’d pay on loans.

In today’s climate if you were going to buy a 100k boat/toy/whatever in cash. It seems to me you would be better financially to finance it.

Reason being

1. You still have 100k in cash under the mattress

2. 100k can return you 5-10+% annually if you chose to.

3. If the economy tanks you have the cash to purchase appreciating assets.

4. If the economy complete falls out and there’s a 2009 scenario you have money to feed your family/survive.

Now before everyone says “here we go again” no we are not leveraged to the hilt. We still run a paid for 1990 boat. And my truck and wife’s SUV are paid by my business. And we couldn’t rent a 2 bed apartment for what our house costs us .




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hallett21

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I’ll add that I know things can change in a moment and go the other way which is why my wife and I stay pretty conservative financially. But we still have a good time


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shaffewm

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Well, I was born a few years later (64) I just dislike owing money and paying interest. I don't mind working hard and waiting and I have always felt better with a cushion in the bank. Prices for boats and everything are at a premium now. It won't stay that way. But you have to go with your situation. I will say time goes fast and fun is invaluable...
 

nowski

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No matter how you decide to play the money game simply save a portion of every paycheck ( a lost discipline) you receive and before yon know it your $$$$$$ will grow into your favor...
 

hallett21

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Well, I was born a few years later (64) I just dislike owing money and paying interest. I don't mind working hard and waiting and I have always felt better with a cushion in the bank. Prices for boats and everything are at a premium now. It won't stay that way. But you have to go with your situation. I will say time goes fast and fun is invaluable...
I can appreciate that. Especially if it’s just something that rubs you the wrong way (paying interest).



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DWC

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Nothing wrong with financing a toy IMO. Did it earlier in life and would do the same program all over again, except without the RV that depreciated like a BMW 7 series. It depends on where you’re at in life and what your goals are. Early in your career with earnings/promotions stacking up it’s not a big deal. At this point i don’t like payments or obligations. Want to be able to walk or away step down and keep the same lifestyle.
 

hallett21

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I guess I’m trying to figure out where the idea of financing something means “you can’t afford it” came from.

Don’t get me wrong I respect and enjoy being able throwing down cash.

Perfect example. I bought our dump trailer for 10ish OTD cut one check for it. Today that trailer is running 13-14k. Not to mention its made us double that in billables. Large regret on my part but goddamit dad said pay cash when I was 10 so I better do it lol. And when my dad was running the shop he’d probably finance it.

Just funny how you get programmed one way and then have to take a step back once in a while.
 

LuauLounge

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Cash is great
In 2017, I bought a used Maserati, financed at 1.9%, at the time I didn’t know whether I’d be alive to pay it off due to health issues. I could have sold my Amazon stock and paid cash. With that same Amazon investment, I bought a place in Vegas in 2019, no mortgage, borrowed a portion from credit lines. That same Amazon stock today is worth more than I spent for both the car and the real estate and the improvements. So, I still owe some money, but the net is way higher. The stock was my fallback, but I never touched it.
 

hallett21

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Cash is great
In 2017, I bought a used Maserati, financed at 1.9%, at the time I didn’t know whether I’d be alive to pay it off due to health issues. I could have sold my Amazon stock and paid cash. With that same Amazon investment, I bought a place in Vegas in 2019, no mortgage, borrowed a portion from credit lines. That same Amazon stock today is worth more than I spent for both the car and the real estate and the improvements. So, I still owe some money, but the net is way higher. The stock was my fallback, but I never touched it.
Hoping people can share experiences like this. Or the inverse. I truly appreciate different perspectives.

Lately I feel like 2008/9 is the same as my grandparents going through the Great Depression. Everyone of the era keeps the same rhetoric.

And I don’t mean that as a negative. Many lost everything in both scenarios and I don’t take that lightly. But I think eventually you have to take a step back and see what works moving forward.

Don’t forget history but don’t be afraid to change your mentality.


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2FORCEFULL

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Since this is a real estate and financial forum .

My parents were born in 58/59. They engrained in my brother (25) and I (30) to always pay for toys (depreciating assets) in cash.

And he and I have stuck to that for the most part, vehicles being the exception.

My question to those older and wiser than myself. Was that stance taken due to the rates of the 70s, 80s, 90s?

In my adult lifetime loan rates have been quite low (relatively to my parents). And you could argue that appreciation/inflation has outrun the interest you’d pay on loans.

In today’s climate if you were going to buy a 100k boat/toy/whatever in cash. It seems to me you would be better financially to finance it.

Reason being

1. You still have 100k in cash under the mattress

2. 100k can return you 5-10+% annually if you chose to.

3. If the economy tanks you have the cash to purchase appreciating assets.

4. If the economy complete falls out and there’s a 2009 scenario you have money to feed your family/survive.

Now before everyone says “here we go again” no we are not leveraged to the hilt. We still run a paid for 1990 boat. And my truck and wife’s SUV are paid by my business. And we couldn’t rent a 2 bed apartment for what our house costs us .




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where are you getting 10%
 

2FORCEFULL

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Since this is a real estate and financial forum .

My parents were born in 58/59. They engrained in my brother (25) and I (30) to always pay for toys (depreciating assets) in cash.

And he and I have stuck to that for the most part, vehicles being the exception.

My question to those older and wiser than myself. Was that stance taken due to the rates of the 70s, 80s, 90s?

In my adult lifetime loan rates have been quite low (relatively to my parents). And you could argue that appreciation/inflation has outrun the interest you’d pay on loans.

In today’s climate if you were going to buy a 100k boat/toy/whatever in cash. It seems to me you would be better financially to finance it.

Reason being

1. You still have 100k in cash under the mattress

2. 100k can return you 5-10+% annually if you chose to.

3. If the economy tanks you have the cash to purchase appreciating assets.

4. If the economy complete falls out and there’s a 2009 scenario you have money to feed your family/survive.

Now before everyone says “here we go again” no we are not leveraged to the hilt. We still run a paid for 1990 boat. And my truck and wife’s SUV are paid by my business. And we couldn’t rent a 2 bed apartment for what our house costs us .




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interest rates are like free money right now,... but what happens to a lot is they sign to buy,... and forget they still owe, then sign to buy again,... pretty soon they are strapped... now they take a secound out, or refinace their home and pull money out to pay off their debt,... few month later... they sign to buy gain...5 years later the home they owed 250k ... they now owe 400k,,, and ten years later even more
 

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Nothing wrong with financing a toy IMO. Did it earlier in life and would do the same program all over again, except without the RV that depreciated like a BMW 7 series. It depends on where you’re at in life and what your goals are. Early in your career with earnings/promotions stacking up it’s not a big deal. At this point i don’t like payments or obligations. Want to be able to walk or away step down and keep the same lifestyle.
solid advice here
 

hallett21

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where are you getting 10%
Stock market on average is 10%. Obviously that can go away in an instant.

Hard money has been pretty popular since 2011. My brother is working for a 50+ year firm doing just that. Only issue is the cost of entry is 100k.

I was hoping you would respond because I’d love to get your take. I watched you turn and burn Donzi sweet 16s, Hallett 210s, 240s, 270s and god knows what else. Improving them no less.

Then I watched you turn and burn real estate .

And I think you absolutely killed it when cash was king. And I believe you’re of my parents 58/59 era or older . As well as a business owner.

So what’s your take on everything?

Btw the 240 with a 525 you had I’m searching for. And when I pull it up and see what you were asking it’s crazy. I could have sold the family relic(our vector) and be paid off and cruising today.

Other than crying every time the vector came within sight I’d be smiling ear to ear.




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stephenkatsea

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Try to do what’s right for you. I converted our entire 401K to the Money Market back in 08. Got lucky. We actually made a little money during that down turn. I kept my job and my pay stayed steady, actually increased a bit. Then got back in the stock market when it was over. Paying cash for cars and toys has worked for us. But, others may have the time and knowledge to put those $ to work. We opted otherwise, and it’s worked for us. Taking that step back is good advice.
 

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I guess I’m trying to figure out where the idea of financing something means “you can’t afford it” came from.

Don’t get me wrong I respect and enjoy being able throwing down cash.

Perfect example. I bought our dump trailer for 10ish OTD cut one check for it. Today that trailer is running 13-14k. Not to mention its made us double that in billables. Large regret on my part but goddamit dad said pay cash when I was 10 so I better do it lol. And when my dad was running the shop he’d probably finance it.

Just funny how you get programmed one way and then have to take a step back once in a while.
Very simply, if you lost your income would the payment for your toy sink you? A $200 boat payment is different than a $2000 boat payment. Additionally, are you upside down on it?

You should have financed the trailer, as it was a tool working for you, and used the capital for other things to get a return. In the end it is not that big of a deal, as the trailer is probably still worth about what you paid for it, and that asset is a tool you can make money with for years to come.

As you said, you have to step back and look at every business decision differently, and with an open mind.

I’m still pretty young and take an “all of the above” approach. I will finance where attractive and appropriate and maintain enough equity in any asset to be able to dump it and come out even or ahead.
I also have cash reserves to be able to jump on an opportunity if something presents itself, or if I lose an income stream.

All that said I do hate payments though.
 
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hallett21

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interest rates are like free money right now,... but what happens to a lot is they sign to buy,... and forget they still owe, then sign to buy again,... pretty soon they are strapped... now they take a secound out, or refinace their home and pull money out to pay off their debt,... few month later... they sign to buy gain...5 years later the home they owed 250k ... they now owe 400k,,, and ten years later even more
I can see that path. For me that’s a non starter. I wouldn’t ever touch our home, unless my wife and I were taking a gamble for a better future long term. To us that’s a large plot of land or a money making property.


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CSmith

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Ill be paying attention to this thread. I'm in the same boat, im no baller that pays cash for all his toys. I have a couple loans (mortgage, boat). I can agree with the people that say pay cash for everything to an extent.
One way I look at it, and not just trying to justify buying an object sooner since it is easier to finance than paying cash. BUT, let's say you want to purchase a boat for 100k, how long would it take to save 100k. Maybe 5 years or more for some?
If you can afford the payment on said 100k boat and aren't overly stretched on your bills, can afford to maintain said boat with all other things in mind then why not?
The big thing is all the memories and good times that can be had on the boat in that 5 year period it would take for some to save for it. I've never had to financially live through a downturn so my vision is skewed probably to some.
Obviously money and life is a big game all of us are trying to get through the best way possible and what we think is the smartest way but don't miss out on making memories with family cause life does truly go by at the blink of an eye. Worst case scenario you can't make the payment, come take the boat. At least you still have the 100k cash or a decent chunk of it to take care the the necessities.

I know im rambling off topic now but obviously there are millionaires that pay cash for stuff and then there are millionaires who finance things. There isn't a book on how to do life. Do what works best for you and your family!
 

Bowtiepower00

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I’ve been on both sides. And there are benefits and drawbacks to both. I have sold all of the toys except the boat- which I’ll be listing soon. I like having the pinks to my vehicles/ toys- makes em much easier to sell. Takes me 1-2 months on average from payoff to get my titles and liens released. Makes selling a PITA. I prefer to be able to sell toys/ vehicles ASAP without hassle when I’m ready to move my money around. I will be down to just my mortgage soon. The one thing ill never understand is using home equity for anything besides a temporary loan to oneself, but if others want to better power to them. I prefer to keep all of my equity in my primary residence and keep my payment low/ pay it off ASAP. IMO, loans are usually a trap. I prefer the cash route, but understand the alternatives and why people do things other ways.
 

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Ill be paying attention to this thread. I'm in the same boat, im no baller that pays cash for all his toys. I have a couple loans (mortgage, boat). I can agree with the people that say pay cash for everything to an extent.
One way I look at it, and not just trying to justify buying an object sooner since it is easier to finance than paying cash. BUT, let's say you want to purchase a boat for 100k, how long would it take to save 100k. Maybe 5 years or more for some?
If you can afford the payment on said 100k boat and aren't overly stretched on your bills, can afford to maintain said boat with all other things in mind then why not?
The big thing is all the memories and good times that can be had on the boat in that 5 year period it would take for some to save for it. I've never had to financially live through a downturn so my vision is skewed probably to some.
Obviously money and life is a big game all of us are trying to get through the best way possible and what we think is the smartest way but don't miss out on making memories with family cause life does truly go by at the blink of an eye. Worst case scenario you can't make the payment, come take the boat. At least you still have the 100k cash or a decent chunk of it to take care the the necessities.

I know im rambling off topic now but obviously there are millionaires that pay cash for stuff and then there are millionaires who finance things. There isn't a book on how to do life. Do what works best for you and your family!
To simply answer your question the cash people would say, don’t buy a $100k boat, buy a $50k boat. You are going to have 90% of the enjoyment in a $50k boat that you would in the $100k boat.
 

Bowtiepower00

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To simply answer your question the cash people would say, don’t buy a $100k boat, buy a $50k boat. You are going to have 90% of the enjoyment of a $50k boat that your would the $100k boat.
I understand why some say that. But I’d rather have a 50k loan on a 100k boat that I love, as opposed to owning a 50k compromise outright- assuming I can afford it. As long as
I owe less than my toy is worth I’m good with it.
 

hallett21

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Moot point. Everyone on here pays cash for their toys...just ask them. Jeesh:rolleyes:
The story continues....

So I’ll fully admit my brother and & I “inherited”our boat. Lost our dad so we look at it as a consolation prize. And since then I’ve cut enough checks to “own” it twice lol.

Cool back story was dad had a pink signed with he and I’s name in the safe before we lost him

So we go to register it in our names. AND WOULDN’T YOU FUCKING KNOW IT. DWP CREDIT UNION HAS A LIEN.

Hey mom thought you paid cash for everything? Lol.

To their credit the lien was 20ish years old and we got the title free and clear a month later. Still a funny story


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rivermobster

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When I was working at JMS Racing, a guy brings his boat in for an engine refresh.

He looks at me and says, hey Joe, what's up?

Im like, do I know you?

He laughed and refreshed my memory, and we both had a pretty good laugh.

I'm like, what are you up to these days?

He says...

Nuthin. I'm retired. Just going to the river and playing with my toys! He said his goal back when we were kids was to retire before he turned 50. He got a job driving big rigs right outa HS, and saved every dollar he could.

He was done working when he hit 49.

Has a paid off house in SoCal and another one in Havasu. He was never going to have to work again.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd probably follow in his footsteps. I wish I would have been that smart...
 

CSmith

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Was taught to only finance things that appreciate or that provides a return that more than cash flows the item. So basically dirt, homes, businesses and business equipment.
Or in right nows economy it could be anything depending on when you purchased it..
 

hallett21

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Was taught to only finance things that appreciate or that provides a return that more than cash flows the item. So basically dirt, homes, businesses and business equipment.
Are you a parent? Same or Different advice for your kids?


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I understand why some say that. But I’d rather have a 50k loan on a 100k boat that I love, as opposed to owning a 50k compromise outright- assuming I can afford it. As long as
I owe less than my toy is worth I’m good with it.
That is where it goes sideways for me personally.... I can live with the $50k boat I’m 85% happy with and will invest the other $50k to eventually get a return. Fast forward a few years and I am now 100% happy with the $50k boat because it is now a free boat.

And now you know the story of why I have a V8 powered RX7 instead of a Corvette and a 23’ Cobra instead of a deck boat :)
 

DLC

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i bought a dump trailer off a buddy that needed cash and I said I could only come up with $2 grand! He jumped at it ! this was like 10 years ago

those dump trailers are like gold! My wife even said that was the Best Buy we ever made....



I guess I’m trying to figure out where the idea of financing something means “you can’t afford it” came from.

Don’t get me wrong I respect and enjoy being able throwing down cash.

Perfect example. I bought our dump trailer for 10ish OTD cut one check for it. Today that trailer is running 13-14k. Not to mention its made us double that in billables. Large regret on my part but goddamit dad said pay cash when I was 10 so I better do it lol. And when my dad was running the shop he’d probably finance it.

Just funny how you get programmed one way and then have to take a step back once in a while.
 

Bowtiepower00

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That is where it goes sideways for me personally.... I can live with the $50k boat I’m 85% happy with and will invest the other $50k to eventually get a return. Fast forward a few years and I am now 100% happy with the $50k boat because it is now a free boat.
My first boat was a 91 Lavey sebring I paid cash for- and loved it. But it was a shitty family boat and my old lady didn’t like it. So I didn’t use it. My current boat I compromised on, mainly because of garage space- and to keep the missus happy. And I like the boat but I don’t love it. And I don’t use it as much as I would/should. So my next boat, should I get another one, will be exactly what I want. I will probably end up in some kind of fast street car next as my toy, just so I get more use out of it.
 

DWC

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The big thing is all the memories and good times that can be had on the boat in that 5 year period it would take for some to save for it. I've never had to financially live through a downturn so my vision is skewed probably to some.
Obviously money and life is a big game all of us are trying to get through the best way possible and what we think is the smartest way but don't miss out on making memories with family cause life does truly go by at the blink of an eye. Worst case scenario you can't make the payment, come take the boat. At least you still have the 100k cash or a decent chunk of it to take care the the necessities.

I know im rambling off topic now but obviously there are millionaires that pay cash for stuff and then there are millionaires who finance things. There isn't a book on how to do life. Do what works best for you and your family!
Agreed 100%. This pic was taken on a trip on a “financed” boat. Some of the best times I’ve ever had on the water. Would have been a bitch to miss because we were saving to pay cash.

41AA1223-D874-4B7E-9DF3-3DFE6A71DA32.jpeg
 

hallett21

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That is where it goes sideways for me personally.... I can live with the $50k boat I’m 85% happy with and will invest the other $50k to eventually get a return. Fast forward a few years and I am now 100% happy with the $50k boat because it is now a free boat.

And now you know the story of why I have a V8 powered RX7 instead of a Corvette and a 23’ Cobra instead of a deck boat :)
Wife, Mom, brother (figure he’ll have a GF shortly or just a side piece doesn’t matter) FIL, MIL, BIL, SIL, SIL (she has a dog) and let’s figure they all get significant others. Not to mention our dog.

And fuck no I’m not owning a pontoon. This is a cry for help. I think a 240 covers the parents and us.

PIA when you enjoy family company.

Edit: been known to run that program to the sandbar with our boat and a 3 seater seadoo..... and we well still break you off at the mouth of the river 🤣🤣🤣


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pkbullet

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Are you a parent? Same or Different advice for your kids?


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Same advise, with the exception of initial auto credit. I think it is easier to build a fico score with a paid auto loan in combination with unused revolving credit.
 

hallett21

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Same advise, with the exception of initial auto credit. I think it is easier to build a fico score with a paid auto loan in combination with unused revolving credit.
Appreciate the response


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Wife, Mom, brother (figure he’ll have a GF shortly or just a side piece doesn’t matter) FIL, MIL, BIL, SIL, SIL (she has a dog) and let’s figure they all get significant others. Not to mention our dog.

And fuck no I’m not owning a pontoon. This is a cry for help. I think a 240 covers the parents and us.

PIA when you enjoy family company.

Edit: been known to run that program to the sandbar with our boat and a 3 seater seadoo..... and we well still break you off at the mouth of the river 🤣🤣🤣


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My plan does not work for everyone, but my Cobra can seat just about as many people as a 240 Hallett, maybe 1 fewer up front. I have a cooler and only one seat in the mid cabin.

But at a certain point, I just boat with family and friends that have boats. You wanna come out? Get yore own boat, I’m out of seats. :)
 

HNL2LHC

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interest rates are like free money right now,... but what happens to a lot is they sign to buy,... and forget they still owe, then sign to buy again,... pretty soon they are strapped... now they take a secound out, or refinace their home and pull money out to pay off their debt,... few month later... they sign to buy gain...5 years later the home they owed 250k ... they now owe 400k,,, and ten years later even more
Then like my neighbors of 25 years. Did the same thing and more like you discribed. House went from $220k to $750k value in those years. They were just foreclosed upon. That is how you play the game wrong!!!!
 

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I think it really depends on the individual and what you want to buy and your financial situation, it’s different for everyone !

we bought a motorhome in 2001 and used it for every vacation & weekend get away for over 10 years - vegas, Palm Springs, central coast, mammoth & bishop, Yellowstone and 20 miles away at the beach!

well worth our monthly payment! We didn’t over buy & we don’t go thru cars every few years
 

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I think it really depends on the individual and what you want to buy and your financial situation, it’s different for everyone !

we bought a motorhome in 2001 and used it for every vacation & weekend get away for over 10 years - vegas, Palm Springs, central coast, mammoth & bishop, Yellowstone and 20 miles away at the beach!

well worth our monthly payment! We didn’t over buy & we don’t go thru cars every few years
I agree. Just position yourself so you aren’t in over your head if something goes sideways, and do what makes sense for you.
 

LowRiver2

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I did DWC’s deal, finance when younger, own when older.
I don’t regret a single purchase/finance , nor ever took a bath on any of the boats, sxs’s , RV’s or Harley

I didn’t need fast toys as my Adrenaline fix has been at work. Toys are and will be decompression time with the family, probably helped in keeping my toy price tags lower, lol.
 

Bowtiepower00

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I did DWC’s deal, finance when younger, own when older.
I don’t regret a single purchase/finance , nor ever took a bath on any of the boats, sxs’s , RV’s or Harley

I didn’t need fast toys as my Adrenaline fix has been at work. Toys are and will be decompression time with the family, probably helped in keeping my toy price tags lower, lol.
I agree with this. If you can afford it, finance the toys to enjoy them with the family. My
Old man was always super conservative and never spent any money on fun. And now that he’s older he still doesn’t, lol. But he sure loves enjoying my toys haha. We only live once, if you’re being responsible, no issues with financing toys, as long as you’re not being stupid about it.
 

Bowtiepower00

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On the finance side, it’s all relative. And you have to be smart about it. Wife and I have 800 credit. So 0% on vehicles or 2% with rebates is no problem. And 3-5% on toys. So the loans don’t cost us much. I would never pay 7%+ on a loan...
 

LowRiver2

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I agree with this. If you can afford it, finance the toys to enjoy them with the family. My
Old man was always super conservative and never spent any money on fun. And now that he’s older he still doesn’t, lol. But he sure loves enjoying my toys haha. We only live once, if you’re being responsible, no issues with financing toys, as long as you’re not being stupid about it.
Agreed
My folks were teachers, limited income with 3 adopted kids.
My grandparents has a 15’ wood/ finerglass 58’ runabout my Grandfather built out of a kit with a 50hp merc O/B
My older siblings got to ride in it and the family stopped using it when I turned 8.
I spent many hours “driving” that boat on it’s trailer growing up.
Bought my first jet boat at 24 and have never been boatless for more than 6 months in 28 years.
My kids have been on atvs/ camping and boating since 3 months old. I can never put a price tag on the memories we have made with the “toys”
Kids don’t care about how fast or cool a recreational vehicle is, they are just happy to be with you enjoying it.
 

Bowtiepower00

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Agreed
My folks were teachers, limited income with 3 adopted kids.
My grandparents has a 15’ wood/ finerglass 58’ runabout my Grandfather built out of a kit with a 50hp merc O/B
My older siblings got to ride in it and the family stopped using it when I turned 8.
I spent many hours “driving” that boat on it’s trailer growing up.
Bought my first jet boat at 24 and have never been boatless for more than 6 months in 28 years.
My kids have been on atvs/ camping and boating since 3 months old. I can never put a price tag on the memories we have made with the “toys”
Kids don’t care about how fast or cool a recreational vehicle is, they are just happy to be with you enjoying it.
Both of my folks were teachers too. I feel your pain, lol.
 
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