Am I getting shafted or is this normal operation?

[Richard.E]

So here's my experience with a service shop in Hurricane Utah. Never thought I would miss the mechanics in Havasu. Rogers performance marine...

Got it winterized in October, no issues. They Said everything was fine....

Last month I pull it out of the garage, let it run on the hose and the drive won't go back up. Look at the reservoir and it's bone dry, no big deal. Un bolt the rams, secure the drive, take it back to rogers and they say "2 weeks" and we will detail it for you for 300$. No problem just have it done before I drive up again...

3 weeks later my brother in law picks it up without looking at it because he doesn't know any better. There's compound from the buffer from the boat all over the gel and trailer that was never wiped off. Inside of the boat looks like it wasn't vacuumed. And he changes the trim motor and the detail for 1500$, which to me seemed a little excessive given I never got an estimate or an invoice.

Take it out the next day, and the boat won't get on plane, but idles fine, limits to about 2500 RPMS. I narrow it down to a fuel line issue or possibly the fuel pump. But I can't diagnose it without the boat being on the water, and I just don't have the time to deal with it before heading home.

So back to Roger's the boat goes, and he tells me over the phone it's a 1500$ part for a new fuel pump, and they will look at it in "2 weeks"... I find the OEM part online for 500$.

I own a service business, I don't start work until I get an over the phone approval on the estimate. And even then if I didn't think the work was satisfactory after I delivered it to them I would fix it correctly on site at no charge to the customer.... I would assume this is how most service businesses should operate...

So my question is what would you do? Would you do it yourself, would you buy the part online and take it to him?

Or would you find a new shop? Never had an issue like this in Havasu, everyone was pretty straight forward about the work they were doing.

 

[Backlash]

Maybe approach him first and verify the price on the part before you pull anchor and head to another shop?? Last time I was in Hurricane I don't remember seeing a lot of shops, so I don't know how close another option might be for you. Kinda like Yucaipa. Hahaaa!

 

[fishing fool]

How old is the boat? Could all of these issues be "normal" for a older boat? How long was the boat sitting? Months, years? Maybe just bad luck.
But yes, they should have caught some of these issues and the boat should have cleaned for sure.

 

[milkmoney]

I would be done with them, if it was me.
Cut my loss and move on. Charge u 1500 for a 500 buck part is a little to crooked for me. [emoji107] [emoji202]

 

[Richard.E]

How old is the boat? Could all of these issues be "normal" for a older boat? How long was the boat sitting? Months, years? Maybe just bad luck.
But yes, they should have caught some of these issues and the boat should have cleaned for sure.

2002 deck boat Volvo penta 5.7 duo prop with roughly 250 hours.

Boat sat in the garage during the winter. Roughly 5 months. I'm sure this is just routine maintenance at this stage, but I feel like they should go thru it and at least give me a set price before I agree to the work this time around.

 

[pronstar]

Shops make money marking-up parts.
Shops make even more money by earning repeat customers.

These guys sound unscrupulous.
Are there any other shops around?

 

[Richard.E]

Shops make money marking-up parts.
Shops make even more money by earning repeat customers.

These guys sound unscrupulous.
Are there any other shops around?

There is a mobile mechanic that can show up at your house for winterizing and basic service. Seems kinda sketchy to me. Maybe there are some shops in St george I haven't heard of.
Pretty big boating community with lots of people that drive to Powell quite often in southern Utah.

Any recommendations?

 

[milkmoney]

There is a mobile mechanic that can show up at your house for winterizing and basic service. Seems kinda sketchy to me. Maybe there are some shops in St george I haven't heard of.
Pretty big boating community with lots of people that drive to Powell quite often in southern Utah.

Any recommendations?

Isn't there another member on here that lives in st George area ?, if so maybe he will chime in. [emoji202]

I know if u go down to Vegas, well boulder city the all season guys will take care of you. If that is an option

 

[CobraDave]

Try spark plugs. [emoji106]personally would not go back.

 

[Richard.E]

I'm about at the point where I want him to trouble shoot it... which I'm 95% sure it's the low pressure side of the fuel pump, and I will just install a new one myself. have them detail it again at no cost to me which seems fair given I have pictures of it after it was picked up.

To me this is unacceptable. But it's not one of the new G23's they store inside while waiting for the customer to pick it up.
Meanwhile my boat is sitting in the dirt lot outback with the sun beating on it for basically the last 6 weeks.

 

[cole_skier]

PM sent

 

[Outdrive1]

I haven't bought one of those in a while. But it's not serviceable and you have to buy the entire unit. It's probably 5/6 hundred on eBay. I think retail is like 8/9 hundred? The shop is going to buy it from a dealer. Even though it's on eBay cheaper than he can get it. Because if it's bad who's he going to return it too? 1500 is a problem. I'd say max 7/8 for the part. And a couple hours maximum labor. Maybe only an hour if the front of the motor is accessible.

 

[Outdrive1]

I haven't bought one of those in a while. But it's not serviceable and you have to buy the entire unit. It's probably 5/6 hundred on eBay. I think retail is like 8/9 hundred? The shop is going to buy it from a dealer. Even though it's on eBay cheaper than he can get it. Because if it's bad who's he going to return it too? 1500 is a problem. I'd say max 7/8 for the part. And a couple hours maximum labor. Maybe only an hour if the front of the motor is accessible.

This should be what you have. They go bad because the paint that was used originally inside the unit gets eaten and clogs the fuel pump.

 

[Outdrive1]

Drive went down and not up? Or didn't work at all? Reservoir was empty also?

 

[Richard.E]

View attachment 571384

This should be what you have. They go bad because the paint that was used originally inside the unit gets eaten and clogs the fuel pump.

Yup that's exactly what I saw when I decided his price was ridiculous.

Looks to be a hour job, and I'm pretty sure I can handle it. Right in front of the engine, probably going to swap out the check valve while in the bilge as well.

And I stored it with the drive down, and it would just click and not raise the drive, check the reservoir and it was dry, pretty sure that part was 6-700$ plus labor, no idea what I paid since he never sent me an invoice. He was happy to take my money.

 

[SBMech]

I would refuse to work with a company that does not give proper estimates and invoices.

Shady.

 

[guest hs]

If you have the fuel cell assy. retail from Volvo is $1281. You are supposed to replace it as a complete unit. You may want to check the fuel psi regulator on the fuel rail before you replace the pump. We charge 1.5 hour labor to swap the pump out that includes fuel psi test and run it on the hose in the shop. Any time we do a job I always give an estimate on a job before we start on it unless the customer comes in and says just fix it, I don't care how much it cost. I would take it back for the detail to be touched up and demand they do it right away! I never make a customer wait at the back of the line if they bring the boat back that was just in our shop. Unfortunately its standard practice to keep the most expensive boats in the shop at night when we are gone if there is room.

 

[Outdrive1]

If you have the fuel cell assy. retail from Volvo is $1281. You are supposed to replace it as a complete unit. You may want to check the fuel psi regulator on the fuel rail before you replace the pump. We charge 1.5 hour labor to swap the pump out that includes fuel psi test and run it on the hose in the shop. Any time we do a job I always give an estimate on a job before we start on it unless the customer comes in and says just fix it, I don't care how much it cost. I would take it back for the detail to be touched up and demand they do it right away! I never make a customer wait at the back of the line if they bring the boat back that was just in our shop. Unfortunately its standard practice to keep the most expensive boats in the shop at night when we are gone if there is room.

There you go. It's been a few years since I've done one. They are expensive.

 

[guest hs]

Forgot to mention that I had a customer earlier in the year that needed a fuel pump replaced and didn't want to pay our price on the pump. He found one on line that said it was either new or reconditioned for $800. I advised against it he bought it and we put it on and the pump did not function properly. He had us remove it so he could send it back. they took it back tested it and sent it back to him told him there was nothing wrong with it. I reinstalled it when the customer was there and ran the engine for him and it did the same exact thing before he sent it back. At this time the customer is really aggravated. I suggest to him let me put a new pump on so you know for sure that the pump you bought is bad. We put the pump on and the new pump we supplied works perfect and this was all done while the customer was standing there watching us. He agrees the pump he bought is bad. he calls the supplier up he got the pump from and tells him what he saw with his own eyes and tells them he wants a refund. They tell him sorry no refunds on fuel related items. The customer ended having to pay to r&r 2 pumps the pump he bought and the pump I supplied just over trying to save a few bucks. Buy the Oem pump if that's whats wrong with the engine and be done with it.

 

[SBMech]

When you start working with thousands of dollars in repairs, it only makes sense to just let a shop do their thing, if you trust them.

Let them make the appropriate amount of profit on the job and supply a warranty, makes all of these stupid scenarios go away with a legit shop.

You bring your own eggs to Sambo's, it really fucks that formula up. If you supply your own parts, 50% of the time (at least!) you will find yourself in a situation like Namba described.

At this point in life, I simply refuse to do the work if someone wants to supply their own parts, not worth the hassle.

 

[TPC]

Hurricane is a Tourist trap.

 

[Richard.E]

Hurricane is a Tourist trap.

Pretty nice being able to hit the dunes in the RZR and take the boat out in the same day. Just a 10 minute drive from the garage.

But I live in Southern California so I guess anything is better than here

 

[traquer]

I've had good luck going the Amazon/Ebay route and installing stuff myself but I always bought the name brand NEW part and triple checked the install

 

[rrrr]

.

Yeah, I'd say you've been screwed.

There aren't many failure modes that would require replacing an entire trim pump. I can't remember the last time I heard of the pump motor going bad on a Volvo. The Volvo trim pump is easier to troubleshoot and repair than the Merc unit. It has cube relays instead of solenoids. If it won't travel in one direction, you can swap the relays to check them for proper operation. For less than $20 you can replace both of the relays. The motor itself costs less than $50.

The loss of fluid in yours obviously indicates a leak. Did you see any fluid under the drive in the garage? It could have been a slow leak that you didn't notice, and the reservoir finally emptied itself. Any issues with the unit last year? Stuff shouldn't fail while sitting in the garage.

Since the pump is operated by relays, the wiring from the dash switch is a low amperage circuit, so the switch contacts aren't stressed. All in all it's a pretty bulletproof deal, and a mechanic that replaces the entire assembly is lazy or stupid.

Advice for the future...you have to be more proactive, and you need to familiarize yourself with the basics of your boat's operation. You can't just take it to the shop and tell them "Uh, I dunno what's wrong". This forum is a fantastic source of information. Ask questions. Take photos of the broken stuff and post them. Explain the symptoms in detail. Someone here will help you get it fixed.

As for the fuel pump, even though it's supposedly a non serviceable item and replacement is how it's fixed, it doesn't hurt to try and clean the screen. The screen is on the inlet side, and the unit can be disassembled and cleaned. If you fuck it up, there's no loss, right? You have to buy a new one anyway.

Below is a post from a boating forum. There are Volvo Penta specific forums out there. Look for one, join up, and get some help. This stuff ain't rocket science, you can do a lot of things yourself with guidance from forums and YouTube.

Good luck, get back on the water!

.

My 2000 VP 5.7 GSi-PEFS recently stopped building power above 3500 rpm. Also, the fuel pump(s), which had whined since I bought the boat last year, had started whining very loudly.

Thanks to previous threads on THT and elsewhere, I determined that the fuel cell was likely to have an internal restriction that limited power and caused whining due to pump cavitation. Sure enough, when I removed and disassembled the (supposedly non-serviceable) fuel cell, I found one of the pump inlet screens plugged almost solid with an unknown fine powdery material.

Both upstream filter/separators were clean, so I'm not certain where the contamination originated, but other people have found that it's likely to be paint from inside the fuel cell itself.

I cleaned the screen with aerosol carb cleaner, then cleaned and wiped all the accessible areas inside the fuel cell. I reassembled the fuel cell as carefully as I could, reusing the original O-rings (lubricated and guided into place).

In the end, the fuel cell went back together with no leaks, and the engine runs like new again. The pump whine that eventually became obnoxiously loud is now completely gone, the boat runs up the expected speed and rpm at WOT, and the engine runs smoothly at all rpm.

I suspect I'll have to clean the fuel cell again, so I'll be trying to source Viton O-rings of the appropriate sizes. But for now, servicing the non-serviceable part solved two operating problems (high noise & low power), and saved me from laying out $700 for a new fuel cell, at least for a while.

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Video!

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[video=youtube;mTyQE3GYFgw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyQE3GYFgw[/video]

 

[SBMech]

.

Yeah, I'd say you've been screwed.

There aren't many failure modes that would require replacing an entire trim pump. I can't remember the last time I heard of the pump motor going bad on a Volvo. The Volvo trim pump is easier to troubleshoot and repair than the Merc unit. It has cube relays instead of solenoids. If it won't travel in one direction, you can swap the relays to check them for proper operation. For less than $20 you can replace both of the relays. The motor itself costs less than $50.

The loss of fluid in yours obviously indicates a leak. Did you see any fluid under the drive in the garage? It could have been a slow leak that you didn't notice, and the reservoir finally emptied itself. Any issues with the unit last year? Stuff shouldn't fail while sitting in the garage.

Since the pump is operated by relays, the wiring from the dash switch is a low amperage circuit, so the switch contacts aren't stressed. All in all it's a pretty bulletproof deal, and a mechanic that replaces the entire assembly is lazy or stupid.

Advice for the future...you have to be more proactive, and you need to familiarize yourself with the basics of your boat's operation. You can't just take it to the shop and tell them "Uh, I dunno what's wrong". This forum is a fantastic source of information. Ask questions. Take photos of the broken stuff and post them. Explain the symptoms in detail. Someone here will help you get it fixed.

As for the fuel pump, even though it's supposedly a non serviceable item and replacement is how it's fixed, it doesn't hurt to try and clean the screen. The screen is on the inlet side, and the unit can be disassembled and cleaned. If you fuck it up, there's no loss, right? You have to buy a new one anyway.

Below is a post from a boating forum. There are Volvo Penta specific forums out there. Look for one, join up, and get some help. This stuff ain't rocket science, you can do a lot of things yourself with guidance from forums and YouTube.

Good luck, get back on the water!

.




.

Video!

.

[video=youtube;mTyQE3GYFgw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyQE3GYFgw[/video]

You have to take into consideration that not everyone is capable of tackling a repair like that. But great advice with solid help if they can do it.

You say it's "not rocket science" but for a lot of people it is.. Playing around with fuel injection components is nothing to fuck around with. You can burn your shit down.

 

[rrrr]

.

I agree with you about tackling stuff outside one's comfort level. But replacing a trim pump or a fuel pump assembly is really straightforward because it's nothing more than a couple of hoses and electrical quick connectors. If someone doesn't have the ability to do something like this, they'll know.

There is one thing that demands caution. EFI fuel pumps operate at pretty high pressures, and just taking a fuel line off can surprise someone. The guy in the video mentions bleeding off the pressure at the fuel rail Schrader fitting, and it's absolutely critical to remove the pressure while taking into account the presence of gasoline vapors and liquid. The boat owner also has to assess if he is able to deal with threaded connections without damaging the fittings by cross threading or stripping them. After the repair is completed, it's beyond important to check for leaks.

Always be aware of the fire danger, and have an extinguisher available before you start the work. I've seen otherwise competent mechanics get into big trouble because they were working on a fuel system and a small fire turned into a really big one.

So perhaps I made it sound too easy. I just get frustrated that honest people go to a repair shop expecting to be treated fairly, and instead they get the "two weeks" bullshit and incompetent assholes.

 

[Richard.E]

I'm going to most likely end up doing it myself. Just need to set up time to do it. Since I was just up there it will be a couple weeks til I can leave for an extended period of time.

I'm sure I can handle it, already watched that tutorial video and read about it in the service manual. Just changed out the entire fuel system on my 560SL, which I think was much more complicated than this. This seems pretty straight forward...

Hell I was working on a HH52 helicopter's hydraulic system at school today... It's just easier to have the shop do stuff like this mainly because of the accessibility of parts, but once I started getting taken for a ride by the mechanic... let's just say I am more interested in doing it myself than I was 2 weeks ago.

 

[rmarion]

Richard

You have a PM.

My nephew is a sheriff in Washington County. Has a Roll bar boat. He gave you three references. ...

 

[Bigbore500r]

2002 deck boat Volvo penta 5.7 duo prop with roughly 250 hours.

Boat sat in the garage during the winter. Roughly 5 months. I'm sure this is just routine maintenance at this stage, but I feel like they should go thru it and at least give me a set price before I agree to the work this time around.

FYI - if it's the low pressure fuel pump, I just went thru this. Found the Airtex equivalent on Amazon for $75.00. OEM is a rip and they don't last any better

 

[Bigbore500r]

Just saw that you have the "unit" with both pumps built into one assembly. Funny thing is I believe they took the same damn $75 low pressure pump and just built it into that assembly. Mine are separate, here is my low pressure pump

 

[Richard.E]

ended up solving this issue finally over the weekend.

Bought a fuel pump assembly on Amazon for 275$ and was sure they would accept a refund if the part was defective. Put it on no problem, changed out all the clamps and hoses just To be sure everything was fine. Fuel pressure reading was perfect. No issues. Ran all weekend just as good as it did before.

To sum it up Roger's Performance Marine in Hurricane will not be getting of my money going forward. The boat sat there for 6 weeks in the rain and sun without being touched or even diagnosed. They couldn't even return a phone call.

The service manager Brayden has his head so far up his own ass.... the only thing he did that made it somewhat acceptable was detailing it for free the day I told him I would be coming to get the boat.



I will be using a mechanic in the area referred by another RDP member next time [emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1303]