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Anyone ever have a business refuse to give

78Southwind

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Anyone ever have a business refuse to give you a written estimate or most importantly an invoice of the work they completed. I figure the businesses that do this are trying to cheat good old Uncle Sam. I have had this happen in the past so I paid with a check and I just tried to be as detailed as possible in the comments section of the check. I would think if someone pays with a check the check is at least your receipt. However, I have only had this happen to me when I am in Arizona. I even had one business owner tell me this isn't California that it is different in Arizona (kind of hard to believe). My buddy was thinking that it was to try to limit the liability of the services rendered.

What do you guys think? Have you ever had this happen to you? If so, did you trust the person and just go a long with it? Anyone know the legality of not providing an invoice for services rendered?
 

wettrthebettr

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Yes I Have, use a welder to do my welding, He is a very respected Business owner, that does Excellent Welding.
I pay him in Cash, no receipt The job is a verbal. I get a ecellent job for less money and he does not have to deal with paper work or taxes.
Works for me and him.
 

78Southwind

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Yes I Have, use a welder to do my welding, He is a very respected Business owner, that does Excellent Welding.
I pay him in Cash, no receipt The job is a verbal. I get a ecellent job for less money and he does not have to deal with paper work or taxes.
Works for me and him.

To me it sounds like you guys have a relationship with a mutual understanding and benefit. I am talking about someone just straight out telling you no I don't give out invoices after the work is completed. You kind of feel stuck so you do your best to cover your ass.
 

wettrthebettr

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To me it sounds like you guys have a relationship with a mutual understanding and benefit. I am talking about someone just straight out telling you no I don't give out invoices after the work is completed. You kind of feel stuck so you do your best to cover your ass.
Oh, well if you don't know them, definitely demand a Quote and receipt . I only give cash to owners I know or if someone I know referred them to do the work.
 

78Southwind

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I will explain in a little more detail through some story-telling...

One time I dropped off a vehicle and the guy wouldn't give me a copy of the invoice with the estimate on it. He actually told me this isn't like California we don't have to give you the paperwork. So when he left to go get something, I took a picture of it with my phone. I thought to myself what if something happened to the vehicle while it was in his possession? How could I prove that he even had it at his shop?

Another time, I dropped off some parts to have some work done to them (we are talking about $6,000 worth of parts with a $300 job). This was a different guy and he refused to give me an estimate listing the parts in his possession. I told him a story about when Tom Papp of TPR passed away. All hell broke loose when Tom passed away and a lot of customers parts went missing. He kind of laughed and told his worker that I thought he was going to pass away. He finally wrote down the parts he had of mine on a yellow note book paper in his hand writing. I still didn't feel completely comfortable but at least I had something to prove the parts were there if something went sideways. Then of course there wasn't an invoice when I picked up the parts.
 

t&y

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Tradesmen is all I've had that issue with. Usually Mechanics. Now I'm older and wiser and just move on unless I know the person well enough.
 

Rbcconst

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Any legitimate business should be able to provide an estimate, invoice or receipt. Even if its hand written on carbon paper tablets, which anyone can get for $10. If they wont do it I would look for someone else. You have no recourse without paperwork. The only people who don’t provide them are day workers and side jobs, which you hold the liability anyway. It has nothing to do with AZ, CA or any state, there just not running a legit business. Unless your getting a sweet deal the risk isn’t worth the reward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Riverbound

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Only way I would work like that is if the deal were so good I could afford to walk away from it losing everything. Out side of that scope of work, parts list and what I’m paying for will be given up front.
 

Justfishing

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I would say the guy is not paying insurance, if he has employees no workmans comp etc

He does a transmission fluid change and puts the wrong fluid in. A week later it goes out. No invoice, no record, no insurance!! Guess who is paying, not him


Lets say he does an oil change. He forgets to fill it with oil and does a test drive and siezes the engine. He is not paying.

What else are they not doing. What do they do with hazardous waste?
 

Spectra18

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Anyone ever have a business refuse to give you a written estimate or most importantly an invoice of the work they completed. I figure the businesses that do this are trying to cheat good old Uncle Sam. I have had this happen in the past so I paid with a check and I just tried to be as detailed as possible in the comments section of the check. I would think if someone pays with a check the check is at least your receipt. However, I have only had this happen to me when I am in Arizona. I even had one business owner tell me this isn't California that it is different in Arizona (kind of hard to believe). My buddy was thinking that it was to try to limit the liability of the services rendered.

What do you guys think? Have you ever had this happen to you? If so, did you trust the person and just go a long with it? Anyone know the legality of not providing an invoice for services rendered?


Shiiiit my boss was trying to give me a 1099. Same thing. I threatened to report her to IRS, had to go back and forth for 2 weeks, I think and hope the numbers she gave me on W2 are proper now. .........I’m still gonna try to report her ass to IRS
 

coolchange

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As it is I Mark all my parts with a personal ID.
If someone didn't want to give me an invoice for my stuff, I would nope right out of there.
 

monkeyswrench

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I grew up in construction, and done the mechanical thing. The only people I don't, or didn't, give paperwork to are those I have known a long time, and it's mutually agreed upon. In my eyes it protects both parties. The dollar figure was already agreed on, so the buyer can't disagree later. They have some recourse if I screw up. It really makes you pay attention to everything. This is especially true when you have employees. It shouldn't be "good enough", like some employees may think.
 

Mandelon

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Sure sounds like he does no paperwork, pays everyone cash and doesn't pay income or payroll taxes. Or probably have insurance....

That kind of guy undercuts legitimate businesses who play by the rules. A shade tree mechanic is one thing, you know what you are getting into. Only bound by the fellow's personal code of honor. But a real shop should have the right paperwork available and in use.
 

Waterjunky

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Run! Run now!

Unless I knew the person well and it was a mutual thing, I would scoop my parts back up and say "thanks" as I walked out. It doesn't take that many people doing this and they get the picture.
 

RiverDave

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Anyone ever have a business refuse to give you a written estimate or most importantly an invoice of the work they completed. I figure the businesses that do this are trying to cheat good old Uncle Sam. I have had this happen in the past so I paid with a check and I just tried to be as detailed as possible in the comments section of the check. I would think if someone pays with a check the check is at least your receipt. However, I have only had this happen to me when I am in Arizona. I even had one business owner tell me this isn't California that it is different in Arizona (kind of hard to believe). My buddy was thinking that it was to try to limit the liability of the services rendered.

What do you guys think? Have you ever had this happen to you? If so, did you trust the person and just go a long with it? Anyone know the legality of not providing an invoice for services rendered?

I have never heard or seen anything like this? I think I’d stayfar away from a biz that did biz like that?
 

3queens

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Shit man you've been around long enough to know how some of the shops in the BHC run

small job ya what the hell
Big money parts small shop I don't know personally and no recipe
RUN Forest RUN
 

DaveC

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Tax and insurance cheat.

it happens. If you know the guy and trust him then why not. If not move along
 

Tank

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Funny because in Ca. by Ca. law, that is established with the vehicle owners signature on an estimation quote, is a binding contract that protects the business, not the customer and is the contract that allows said mechanic to keep your vehicle if there is a dispute over the bill!! Most don't know that. So when you sign that paper and there is no # or actual estimate, you're allowing the mechanic to keep your card til the dispute is settled! Dealt with this, many, many, many times.
 
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nameisbond

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My mechanic is mostly Porsches, he specializes in them. He's an unlicensed shop. Therefore he doesn't give any paper work. He has guys from the states sending him their Porsches. I'm surprised nobody has turned him in.
 

mesquito_creek

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I normally try to coach a business owner into how to accept cash and print no invoice at a mutually beneficial arrangement.
 

SBMech

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Easy way to avoid any liability or responsibility for your actions or work.

I would not deal with a vendor or business like that unless I knew them personally....forever.

Even then I would expect to get reamed if something went wrong.......:oops:;)
 

78Southwind

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So let's talk legality, is a shop legally required to provide an invoice?
 

Carlson-jet

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So let's talk legality, is a shop legally required to provide an invoice?
Before or after moneys are exchanged?
Perhaps you are asking about a quote?
I would never do business with any company that does not provide a quote unless I entered the E.R on a gurney unconscious.
 

78Southwind

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Before or after moneys are exchanged?
Perhaps you are asking about a quote?
I would never do business with any company that does not provide a quote unless I entered the E.R on a gurney unconscious.

I have had it happen on both ends. But probably more important, let say once you paid for the work. No invoice to show you had the work done.
 

Carlson-jet

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Looks like we both learned lessons. I know what my boundaries are.
 

Go-Fly

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The guy that trims my palm trees has never talked to me other then to say he is done, I give him $400 cash, he leaves. The only reason I know the price is my neighbor told me. I don't know his name, he came with the house when I bought it. From what I understand he has been doing the whole block for the last 20 years. Had one palm die over the summer when we were gone. He came in, cut it down, ground the stump, removed all the mess and landscaped over it. Has never asked for payment. Only in Az will you see this.
 

RiverDave

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The guy that trims my palm trees has never talked to me other then to say he is done, I give him $400 cash, he leaves. The only reason I know the price is my neighbor told me. I don't know his name, he came with the house when I bought it. From what I understand he has been doing the whole block for the last 20 years. Had one palm die over the summer when we were gone. He came in, cut it down, ground the stump, removed all the mess and landscaped over it. Has never asked for payment. Only in Az will you see this.

LOL that's awesome.. You have a house in AZ as well?

RD
 

Go-Fly

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LOL that's awesome.. You have a house in AZ as well?

RD
We do, not far from you. Monday we are headed to Rosslyn, Virginia to buy a condo thou. Will be gone until November.
 
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