Arizona new development water restrictions…

[Ace in the Hole]

Arizona announces limits on construction in Phoenix area as groundwater disappears | CNN

Arizona officials announced Thursday the state will no longer grant certifications for new developments within the Phoenix area, as groundwater rapidly disappears amid years of water overuse and climate change-driven drought.

www.cnn.com

Only really impacts Phoenix metro….still nothing being done about the Saudi’s legalized water theft…

 

[monkeyswrench]

So, homes can't have water, but the giant chip manufacturer gets a pass first? The Saudis getting their water as well...
How many palms get greased, or is it just a lot of grease to a few?

 

[cofooter]

About time they realized they were overbuilding!

 

[retaocleg]

so tax payers of property taxes are assed out so saudi can grow alfalfa in az because it is illegal to grow there.............. because.............it takes too much precious water? makes (im)perfect sense

 

[RIVERBORN]

I’d imagine a LOT of hands,I know two guys that work for water districts, now granted they are high ups, they live in some really nice houses. Really nice..

 

[2Driver]

So, homes can't have water, but the giant chip manufacturer gets a pass first? The Saudis getting their water as well...
How many palms get greased, or is it just a lot of grease to a few?

Sums it up

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So, homes can't have water, but the giant chip manufacturer gets a pass first? The Saudis getting their water as well...
How many palms get greased, or is it just a lot of grease to a few?

Really they just said you have to figure your water shit out before you build.

All that means is your water bill is gonna be sky high . Oh and your building costs are going up.

They aren’t going to stop building.

 

[Looking Glass]

I’d imagine a LOT of hands,I know two guys that work for water districts, now granted they are high ups, they live in some really nice houses. Really nice..

With Pools, Major Landscape, and Irrigation to go with it. Water Restrictions, What Water Restrictions?

 

[AZLineman]

The Saudi alfalfa and dairy deals in AZ need to stop. Follow the bank accounts of the government officials and end it. Until that time tax the fuk out of it and make them pay the locals who have no water to farm/ranch

 

[Havasu blue label]

so tax payers of property taxes are assed out so saudi can grow alfalfa in az because it is illegal to grow there.............. because.............it takes too much precious water? makes (im)perfect sense

No body step up to buy that land so they created a business

 

[evantwheeler]

The Saudi alfalfa and dairy deals in AZ need to stop. Follow the bank accounts of the government officials and end it. Until that time tax the fuk out of it and make them pay the locals who have no water to farm/ranch

Just playing devils advocate - how is saudi alfalfa deal any worse than what we've done in the middle east to feed our oil addiction?

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

Don't forget about the massive amounts of water needed to cool the panels of the solar fields that are being built along I10 and 177

 

[TCHB]

The Saudi alfalfa and dairy deals in AZ need to stop. Follow the bank accounts of the government officials and end it. Until that time tax the fuk out of it and make them pay the locals who have no water to farm/ranch

Saudi Arabia owns 100 times more American companies than this little farm.

 

[Cdog]

Better buy now as Phx housing supply is gonna dry up LOL!

 

[monkeyswrench]

Just playing devils advocate - how is saudi alfalfa deal any worse than what we've done in the middle east to feed our oil addiction?

Right now Afghanistan/Taliban are moving an army towards it's border with Iran. They say it's primarily over Iran's use of water. Read that they want a certain amount of oil for the water they take...

So, sounds like they have both water and oil feuds going on that we are not a part of.
Well, not directly. It's all American armor and weapons the Taliban are using

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Just playing devils advocate - how is saudi alfalfa deal any worse than what we've done in the middle east to feed our oil addiction?

We are dumb and sold them the land. We (American companies) don’t own the oil fields do we?

 

[AEA]

Saudi Arabia owns 100 times more American companies than this little farm.

And someone sold everyone of them because the money was more important than who became the owner. Greed.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

We are dumb and sold them the land. We (American companies) don’t own the oil fields do we?

They don’t own the land they lease it from the state for I think $25/acre on a long long lease with zero water restrictions or fees….

 

[2Driver]

Just playing devils advocate - how is saudi alfalfa deal any worse than what we've done in the middle east to feed our oil addiction?

The Middle East got stinking rich from us buying it and there is no shortage. Big difference

 

[Ducksquasher]

The Middle East got stinking rich from us buying it and there is no shortage. Big difference

Yup...we pay top dollar for that oil as their main product being produced. We are not making money on them vice versa.

 

[hallett21]

They don’t own the land they lease it from the state for I think $25/acre on a long long lease with zero water restrictions or fees….

Through an American corporation right?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The Middle East got stinking rich from us buying it and there is no shortage. Big difference

Only because we are too shortsighted to drill what we have here.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

They don’t own the land they lease it from the state for I think $25/acre on a long long lease with zero water restrictions or fees….

Seems like they aren’t stealing anything then…

 

[530RL]

They don’t own the land they lease it from the state for I think $25/acre on a long long lease with zero water restrictions or fees….

Saudi owned Alamari owns over 15,000 acres in the Palo Verde Valley where they grow Alfalfa.

Dozens of other foreign companies have been buying land from Blythe to Yuma as well as the Colorado River Water Rights for years. They pay the highest price.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Saudi owned Alamari owns over 15,000 acres in the Palo Verde Valley where they grow Alfalfa.

Dozens of other foreign companies have been buying land from Blythe to Yuma as well as the Colorado River Water Rights for years. They pay the highest price.

Fondomonte leases 3500 acres from the state of Arizona for $25 per acre per year… the land is Arizona School Trust land being leased far under market value..

They also pump 22k acre feet of water from the butler valley water table which was originally set aside as a groundwater reserve for CAP.

Saudi firm has pumped Arizona groundwater for years without paying. Time to pony up

Arizona's State Land Department unlawfully allowed Fondomonte to pump unlimited amounts of groundwater at no cost. That must stop.

www.azcentral.com

 

[530RL]

Fondomonte leases 3500 acres from the state of Arizona for $25 per acre per year… the land is Arizona School Trust land being leased far under market value..

They also pump 22k acre feet of water from the butler valley water table which was originally set aside as a groundwater reserve for CAP.

Saudi firm has pumped Arizona groundwater for years without paying. Time to pony up

Arizona's State Land Department unlawfully allowed Fondomonte to pump unlimited amounts of groundwater at no cost. That must stop.

www.azcentral.com

Fondomonte is a wholly owned subsidiary of Almarai. They own, they lease and they are buying up as much as they can. They know full well that the best customer in the future will be a municipal water company.

They typically lease land contiguous to land they own as they expand their operations in the Palo Verde Valley. They bought all the land I was involved in which ran on the river and west directly south of McIntyre Park. They paid a ridiculously high price. And if the state land trust ever puts any Palo Verde Valley land up for sale, you can be assured Almarai through their subsidiary Fondomote will be the winning bidder.

Fondomonte leases not just 3,500 acres of farmland from the State Land Trust, but over 6,000 acres from the State Land Trust. The renewal of these leases will be interesting as the State Constitution requires farmland to be leased when a farmer is willing to lease; so absent someone else wanting to farm the land, the renewal will be a legal web as the state wrestles with the constitutional requirement to lease the land for an agricultural use and the desire to limit groundwater depletion as the State Constitution puts agricultural use first.

In addition to Fondomente and the Saudi's, domestic hedge funds are now getting into the water speculation game. This is just the early innings of the game as the laws were written decades ago favoring farming over domestic uses and investors know full well the inability for the government to engage in a taking without compensation.

 

[Activated]

Arizona moves to end Saudi farm's controversial groundwater deals to grow, export alfalfa

Gov. Katie Hobbs said the Arizona State Land Department had canceled one of its leases to Fondomonte Arizona and would not renew 3 others.

www.azcentral.com

 

[boat527]

Seems as though Az, Nevada AND Kommiefornia shouldve looked at this about 20 years ago..its been said before, overdevelopment has helped cause this mess, not the LACK of water... idiots..

 

[coz]

Fondomonte is a wholly owned subsidiary of Almarai. They own, they lease and they are buying up as much as they can. They know full well that the best customer in the future will be a municipal water company.

They typically lease land contiguous to land they own as they expand their operations in the Palo Verde Valley. They bought all the land I was involved in which ran on the river and west directly south of McIntyre Park. They paid a ridiculously high price. And if the state land trust ever puts any Palo Verde Valley land up for sale, you can be assured Almarai through their subsidiary Fondomote will be the winning bidder.

Fondomonte leases not just 3,500 acres of farmland from the State Land Trust, but over 6,000 acres from the State Land Trust. The renewal of these leases will be interesting as the State Constitution requires farmland to be leased when a farmer is willing to lease; so absent someone else wanting to farm the land, the renewal will be a legal web as the state wrestles with the constitutional requirement to lease the land for an agricultural use and the desire to limit groundwater depletion as the State Constitution puts agricultural use first.

In addition to Fondomente and the Saudi's, domestic hedge funds are now getting into the water speculation game. This is just the early innings of the game as the laws were written decades ago favoring farming over domestic uses and investors know full well the inability for the government to engage in a taking without compensation.

Governor Hobbs terminates water lease with Fondomonte Arizona

On Monday, Governor Katie Hobbs announced that the State Land Department has terminated one of the Fondomonte Arizona, LLC's four Butler Valley leases.

www.abc15.com

 

[Activated]

Another article.

Arizona water: State terminates lease of Saudi-owned farm

Gov. Katie Hobbs announced Monday the state land department terminated one of Saudi-owned dairy company Fondomonte Arizona's leases.

ktar.com

 

[Outdrive1]

Governor Hobbs terminates water lease with Fondomonte Arizona

On Monday, Governor Katie Hobbs announced that the State Land Department has terminated one of the Fondomonte Arizona, LLC's four Butler Valley leases.

www.abc15.com

Good for Hobbs. About time someone did something and didn’t just look the other way. Fuck the Saudis.

 

[Looking Glass]

Another article.

Arizona water: State terminates lease of Saudi-owned farm

Gov. Katie Hobbs announced Monday the state land department terminated one of Saudi-owned dairy company Fondomonte Arizona's leases.

ktar.com

The Lease was for $25.00 Per Acre, with "Unlimited" Water Rights" The Alfalfa, is being shipped back to feed the Saudi's Dairy Cows. This agreement is virtually Free Hay for their Animals, and the Irony of this arrangement is that Drilling for Water over there for agricultural purposes is Prohibited. The amount of water used daily equals the amount that a City of 50,000 would use.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The Lease was for $25.00 Per Acre, with "Unlimited" Water Rights" The Alfalfa, is being shipped back to feed the Saudi's Dairy Cows. This agreement is virtually Free Hay for their Animals, and the Irony of this arrangement is that Drilling for Water over there for agricultural purposes is Prohibited. The amount of water used daily equals the amount that a City of 50,000 would use.

Remember, there is a water shortage

 

[Wolverines!]

The Saudi alfalfa and dairy deals in AZ need to stop. Follow the bank accounts of the government officials and end it. Until that time tax the fuk out of it and make them pay the locals who have no water to farm/ranch

How? Water rights go back generations, but they can be bought and sold like any other commodity? Once they’ve been acquired by the Saudis or any other entity, how do you lawfully take them away? As I understand it, as water dries up on the Colorado the most recent water rights go away completely without any reduction in older rights. When it dries up a bit more, the next oldest right disappears completely with no effect on older rights, and so on. If you don’t own one of the oldest water rights in the state, you’re probably in trouble unless this decades long drought is reversed.

Prior-appropriation water rights - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Looking Glass]

The Lease was for $25.00 Per Acre, with "Unlimited" Water Rights" The Alfalfa, is being shipped back to feed the Saudi's Dairy Cows. This agreement is virtually Free Hay for their Animals, and the Irony of this arrangement is that Drilling for Water over there for agricultural purposes is Prohibited. The amount of water used daily equals the amount that a City of 50,000 would use.

After the "Oversight" of the "Unlimited" water use came to light, there was a frantic Legal" Search to cancel these Leases, and it was discovered that a Lease Payment had been missed and was not made in a timely manner this was what was used for the ending of Contracts. Many Farmers in the Area and around the State have been outraged by the Leasing of Land in the first place and have been questioning their Non-Stop irrigation and now it is explained.

FREE WATER, when everyone in the Country is in a "Water Conservation Mode"

 

[Singleton]

Only reason action was taken, was the water shortage.
Sad to say, but this will end up in court and the state of AZ, is going to end up paying $$.

Audit found issues back in 2016 that were not addressed. If the state never returned to verify corrective action taken, can you use that against the owners 7 years later.

The state had the right to terminate within 12 months of the audit issue not being resolved and waited until now. WTF

 

[Ziggy]

Just playing devils advocate - how is saudi alfalfa deal any worse than what we've done in the middle east to feed our oil addiction?

We don't drink oil to survive.... That'd be the first thing that is different.

 

[Looking Glass]

There was also another issue of not acquiring Building Permits for their Hay Storage Buildings on "Arizona Owned Leased Property" The State of Arizona will Not be Paying Anyone, Anything. The remaining Leases that will be up for renewal in February, will "END"

 

[paradise]

Good for Hobbs. About time someone did something and didn’t just look the other way. Fuck the Saudis.

Slippery slope. In this case we see it as a good thing because we don’t like the people involved, but the only reason the leases were ended was due to a missing plastic liner under a diesel tank.

Only reason action was taken, was the water shortage.
Sad to say, but this will end up in court and the state of AZ, is going to end up paying $$.

Audit found issues back in 2016 that were not addressed. If the state never returned to verify corrective action taken, can you use that against the owners 7 years later.

The state had the right to terminate within 12 months of the audit issue not being resolved and waited until now. WTF

Agreed, it may not come to an actual payment but there will certainly be lawsuits.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Slippery slope. In this case we see it as a good thing because we don’t like the people involved, but the only reason the leases were ended was due to a missing plastic liner under a diesel tank.

Agreed, it may not come to an actual payment but there will certainly be lawsuits.

And by what legal grounds are they required to renew the leases that expire in Feb?

 

[grumpy88]

I was in Scottsdale a month ago and I have never seen so much grass . Every median and city planter along the side walk. Watering in the middle of the day with most running down the street . There is lots of water usage to be looked at in that state .

 

[Not So Fast]

Well as a non-knower of everything! all I can say is we better figure it out and do it quickly. The stuff I hear doesnt make any sense, like blowing up any of our dams and letting the water free flow, what does that do i ask. I say we need more dams for reserves but thats a moor point, not gonna happen!
The growth in the south west is simply to much for the Mighty Colorado to sustain, we are sucking it out of the aquifer also, look at that farm land the Arabs control, and we cant do anything about it ??? Seriously ????
This is gonna be a HUGE PROBLEM if it isnt already. I dont have much time left but I pity what my kids and their off spring will do to survive. I hope and pray it turns out well
NSF

 

[Singleton]

And by what legal grounds are they required to renew the leases that expire in Feb?

Those leases had auto-renewal terminology in them. State has to provide X days of notice, which they did, so don’t see anything impacting those.

 

[Cdog]

In regard to Fondemonte. These legal agreements have release clause, cure notices and specific language that protect the state and what ever authority to verify specific requirements are met. To think anyone here would have an opinion on this without having a copy of the document and being a lawyer is laughable. It's beyond the overwhelming majority of our pay grades.

 

[timstoy]

Sums it up

Follow the money, works every time!

 

[kurtis500]

Plenty of water in Phoenix. Vegas is a diferent story. Anybody who doesnt know needs to take a close look at the Phoenix area and the water supply, especially how it was created over 100 years ago and how its managed. Plenty of water to irrigate lawns... I do mine all the time. You just need to live DOWNHILL of the water supply.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

In regard to Fondemonte. These legal agreements have release clause, cure notices and specific language that protect the state and what ever authority to verify specific requirements are met. To think anyone here would have an opinion on this without having a copy of the document and being a lawyer is laughable. It's beyond the overwhelming majority of our pay grades.

This.

 

[Dirtbag]

still blows me away that we havent figured out how to take the salt out of ocean water on the cheap....and havent figured out how to build a pipeline to where the water is up north :/

 

[paradise]

In regard to Fondemonte. These legal agreements have release clause, cure notices and specific language that protect the state and what ever authority to verify specific requirements are met. To think anyone here would have an opinion on this without having a copy of the document and being a lawyer is laughable. It's beyond the overwhelming majority of our pay grades.

While I do totally agree with this, I think assuming that they will roll over and give up those water rights without a fight is naïve. Whether or not they have any basis and will actually win anything is another matter but I would be shocked if there wasn't a lawsuit (which was all I said).

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

still blows me away that we havent figured out how to take the salt out of ocean water on the cheap....and havent figured out how to build a pipeline to where the water is up north :/

That was in the plans 40-50 years ago. It never got done because there was no immediate need and the money was squandered. Now it will never get done because government is no longer in the problem solving business. It is in the crisis management business.