WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Army Lt. traffic stop

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
nothing excessive in my mind.
OK, maybe that is where we are having a divergence in the public perception vs. the raw practice of enforcement. Just like a surgeon must be able to hadle gory unsavory facts in his work, a member of enforcement must handle every escalated situation in the same way, per training. now that the dissonance between citizen and officer are plain in this case, would you say that a re-calibration of training under the circumstances of this and other similar traffic stops (Gandhi in a SUV) would garner more positive public optics...i believe that is where the Virginia governor is headed. Opinion?
 

BajaT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
1,152
Reaction score
695
Again. Who is at the root problem here?? Had the suspect not resisted and obeyed the commands it would have never escalated to this point. Why do black people feel as if obeying the commands of a law enforcement officer does not apply to them? Let’s focus on the root of the cause of this daily behavior.
Instead Lebron James throws gas on the fire stating he fears for his kids leaving the house. Common denominator is resisting/not obeying commands.

Equity: Some do not have to follow the laws and obey orders = no one gets hurt. Others continue to follow laws/orders, they don't get hurt. Problem solved......
 
Last edited:

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,131
Reaction score
14,527
You didn't, cuz my folks taught me young, do not ride in cars with strange policemen and not to talk to them unless it's about gopher killing and or your attorney is present, they're not your friend, they'll just act like it. 👍

Well except these guys, especially the very nice officer who pick my wife and I up while thumbing on I40 east of Kingman after our POS razor left us stranded in the mountain wilderness. Much respect and gratitude right there. 👍👍👍


View attachment 991536
Cops doing their job
Amazing ....
Ike the closet racist saying he has “friends” of fill in the blank they are accused bias of.
Be all you can be, my point has been proven again
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
You are missing a fair bit of backstory. Between the involved parties here. Jump in with caution.
oh crap. that is good advice. still...the thing was, I got the same treatment...like...identical. last week I think.
I was having a calm conversation and the ruse played out the exact same way.
I just won't fall for it again I guess.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,131
Reaction score
14,527
oh crap. that is good advice. still...the thing was, I got the same treatment...like...identical. last week I think.
I was having a calm conversation and the ruse played out the exact same way.
I just won't fall for it again I guess.
No,
Can’t reason with oracles, but you be you, you are good at a-lot of things per you. You go with your awesomeness Grandpa.
 

t&y

t&y
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
12,714
Reaction score
17,787
OK, maybe that is where we are having a divergence in the public perception vs. the raw practice of enforcement. Just like a surgeon must be able to hadle gory unsavory facts in his work, a member of enforcement must handle every escalated situation in the same way, per training. now that the dissonance between citizen and officer are plain in this case, would you say that a re-calibration of training under the circumstances of this and other similar traffic stops (Gandhi in a SUV) would garner more positive public optics...i believe that is where the Virginia governor is headed. Opinion?
When you start your statement with this....
"The incident in Windsor is disturbing and angered me – and I am directing the Virginia State Police to conduct an independent investigation."
You are already declaring that interaction was wrong on the cops part.

I'd love to put that turd through some shoot or don't shoot scenarios. Guarantee he would fail just like all the other social justice warrior, news media, or experts that go through them. The common result is every one of them clearly understand by the end of that training that simply complying with the officers commands is vitally important, and usually will save people from any type of force being used against them. There are plenty of video on line addressing this very thing.

So do I believe this is where the Governor is headed? Nope, that turd is trying to set up the cops for taking the blame because the Army Lt. violated the law.
 

DILLIGAF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
13,155
Reaction score
12,604
That headline does not sell papers.
It does not generate click throughs or spirited conversation among citizens interested in justice...but, it is plain and factual. If only...

HOWEVER, may I ask...? During a traffic stop, aren't drivers supposed to be informed of what the violation was?

During the confrontation, what was Gutierrez's statement that summarized the moving violation or licensing or equipment violation the accused was being arrested for? I may not have seen that in the video.
Sorry....not real life while this is happening. It isn't friggin kindergarten. When everything gets secured then ya...but while this is going on F NO!
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
No,
Can’t reason with oracles, but you be you, you are good at a-lot of things per you. You go with your awesomeness Grandpa.
ok. this does not sound insulting or 'passive aggressive', or maybe it does. ANYHOO, thanks for your compliance. You at work?
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
10,226
Reaction score
17,290
Cops acted like douchebags in my opinion.
There are many videos out that show the same exact situation, a driver refusing to exit the vehicle. They end in the driver pulling a gun, and in four I've seen lately, the cop ends up dead.

If a driver won't cooperate with legal commands, he should be treated as a dangerous and armed felon. Period.

This NM state trooper is dead. Maybe he should have acted like a douchebag and pulled his gun way before he allowed the killer to get out of the vehicle, knowing the shitbag had a gun.

He won't be getting another chance to do it right. But he was calm and polite, right up to the moment several .223 rounds killed him. They need to point that out when he's being lowered into the ground, I'm sure it will comfort his wife and children.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 
Last edited:

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
Sorry....not real life while this is happening. It isn't friggin kindergarten. When everything gets secured then ya...but while this is going on F NO!
I am very sorry...I do not know what you are trying to tell me. Grandpa moment I suppose or maybe I don't know you well enough. Thank you.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,131
Reaction score
14,527
ok. this does not sound insulting or 'passive aggressive', or maybe it does. ANYHOO, thanks for your compliance. You at work?
Why maybe, in between Xray and placing a counter charge on an IED.
Care to call IA and report me and verify?
Passive aggressive much?
You funny guy you
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
There are many videos out that show the same exact situation, a driver refusing to exit the vehicle. They end in the driver pulling a gun, and in four I've seen lately, the cop ends up dead.

If a driver won't cooperate with legal commands, he should be treated as a dangerous and armed felon. Period.

This NM state trooper is dead. Maybe he should have acted like a douchebag and pulled his gun way before he allowed the killer to get out of the vehicle, knowing the shitbag had a gun.

He won't be getting another chance to do it right.

I do not disagree. The thing is, there is some appropriate escalation it seems. Still, I had two instances where the police told me to keep my hands on the wheel as I reached to the glove box to get registration and insurance. it was dicey in a way that meant I was imperiled just by driving a vehicle and being pulled over for...in both cases...a very minor equipment violation. I know the LOE had already run my tags and I have no W/W so why the show of force? It was not remotely friendly. we are all going to lose if that is where we point this thing.
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
Why yes, in between Xray and placing a counter charge on an IED.
Care to call IA and report me?
Passive aggressive much?
You funny guy you
thank you for your service. no, I told you before, I am not a snitch. Just...you are at work. Posting. Continuously. While I was working, that was a thing that was monitored by IT for 'excessive use'. You are not concerned about that?
 

DILLIGAF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
13,155
Reaction score
12,604
I am very sorry...I do not know what you are trying to tell me. Grandpa moment I suppose or maybe I don't know you well enough. Thank you.
Its as simple as this....when pulled over do what you are told to do.

I used to act like this towards cops....when I was young. The old smart ass play dumb or acting like you did nothing so why am I being pulled over. Its a fucking game at this point.

Twice I went up to the doors of police car and said WTF are you pulling me over for. One time the cop slammed his door open on my knees.....that hurt.

The second time I actually opened the guys door and started screaming at him. Guess what.....I ended up slammed on the hood and tossed in the car and thrown in jail in Bakersfield.

If I would have just let them do their jobs nothing more would have happened.

My situations are a bit different than the video but I know his kind. No, I don't mean his color.....I mean I know his kind playing the game. Its passive resistance. "Who me? What did you pull me over for?" BEFORE he complies. F him

Guess what.....eventually you get dealt with harshly.

Sad deal is that in todays world the soldier will get paid and should not be paid one fucking dime.
 

DarkHorseRacing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
704
Reaction score
937
The cops could have communicated ALOT better, they control the situation!

The LT should have rolled down his windows and turned in his interior light

If the 2 Barney’s could see inside the car he probably didn’t need to get out of the car
On that second sentence. I've heard and/or been told that you definitely want to turn on your interior light to provide more visibility into the car at night to help the officer see there is nothing to concern themselves with, but you shouldn't roll down your windows as that makes the cops more nervous? In the times I've been pulled over (mainly by CHP for supposedly speeding), I've just done the light as soon as I come to a stop, but I do not roll the windows down until the officer picks a window to work from and then I only roll down that one.

What say the LEO on the boards? I'll be happy to roll my windows down in addition to the interior light if that makes them happier.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,131
Reaction score
14,527
thank you for your service. no, I told you before, I am not a snitch. Just...you are at work. Posting. Continuously. While I was working, that was a thing that was monitored by IT for 'excessive use'. You are not concerned about that?
I wouldn’t post like this on duty lol
But you or any other inmate can call IA to verify if I’m on an RDO.
I have a right to post on a message board at work, sorry to bust you bubble.
But you are the oracle so I just move along in your wake Mr. all knowing.
You probably know how many pulses I should hit a 40mm HE round with to see if the fuse is active, but I won’t ask you, you will tell me before I think it🤣
 

LargeOrangeFont

Steering RDP Towards Political Moderation 😁
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
27,821
Reaction score
37,558

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
I wouldn’t post like this on duty lol
But you or any other inmate can call IA to verify if I’m on an RDO.
I have a right to post on a message board at work, sorry to bust you bubble.
But you are the oracle so I just move along in your wake Mr. all knowing.
You probably know how many pulses I should hit a 40mm HE round with to see if the fuse is active, but I won’t ask you, you will tell me before I think it🤣
Oh. Ok. not on duty. Thats more clear. I have no bubble to burst. You treat me as an aggressor when all I do is ask questions and try to understand. I think that is what led to another interchange where there was not much light but a lot of heat. it is unusual to have that happen, so it becomes interesting.
 

DILLIGAF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
13,155
Reaction score
12,604
Oh. Ok. not on duty. Thats more clear. I have no bubble to burst. You treat me as an aggressor when all I do is ask questions and try to understand. I think that is what led to another interchange where there was not much light but a lot of heat. it is unusual to have that happen, so it becomes interesting.
Just like the guy in the video.....lol
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
Your post just now is why
STOP THAT! :) too cryptic yo. is it just the mere fact of engagement? Does it come down to a basic 'third rail' thing?

you don't owe me anything, but if you would.... I need a little cultural education through advice rather than through trial and error. trial by fire is more harmful than necessary.
 

LowRiver2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
8,131
Reaction score
14,527
Oh. Ok. not on duty. Thats more clear. I have no bubble to burst. You treat me as an aggressor when all I do is ask questions and try to understand. I think that is what led to another interchange where there was not much light but a lot of heat. it is unusual to have that happen, so it becomes interesting.
I’ve already been down your road of one way(yours)
I only have to negotiate with arrogance at work by order, I get to choose dealing with it off duty.

All the best
 

DILLIGAF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
13,155
Reaction score
12,604
STOP THAT! :) too cryptic yo.

you don't owe me anything, but if you would.... I need a little cultural education through advice rather than through trial and error. trial by fire is more harmful than necessary.
Well....I am not here to teach cultural anything. Honestly at times....actually a lot of times....you seem to just be stirring the pot. Not always but it seems that you say things on the fence and then decide which path to take after the stirring gets going.
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
I’ve already been down your road of one way(yours)
I only have to negotiate with arrogance at work by order, I get to choose dealing with it off duty.

All the best
ah. that is more clear. what was it about 'my road' that you found good/bad?
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
Well....I am not here to teach cultural anything. Honestly at times....actually a lot of times....you seem to just be stirring the pot. Not always but it seems to be saying things on the fence and then deciding which path to take after the stirring gets going.
Ah. that is what I needed to hear. I get it...FWIW, it's Socratic method.
discovery. dialogue. very old technique. it should not be confrontational, but maybe the medium is faulty.
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
Exhibit A:
Not engaging, you’ve proven yourself to be special in a very short time on RDP

“All the best”
OK. Would have enjoyed knowing what 'my road' was, but I am sure we will meet again soon. You are an interesting cop. Have a great day.
 
Last edited:

t&y

t&y
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
12,714
Reaction score
17,787
I wouldn’t post like this on duty lol
But you or any other inmate can call IA to verify if I’m on an RDO.
I have a right to post on a message board at work, sorry to bust you bubble.
But you are the oracle so I just move along in your wake Mr. all knowing.
You probably know how many pulses I should hit a 40mm HE round with to see if the fuse is active, but I won’t ask you, you will tell me before I think it🤣
Pffffttt. What I usually do is secure the round between my knees, then just take out my leatherman, put one of the pointy things on the primer of the 40, get out the duty weapon, and start muzzle punching the leatherman into the primer to see if it's good. So far it's worked very well.
 

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
^^^^what I would have said^^^^;)

< i know less than nothing about what that means, so uh...not good at everything>
 

ChiliPepperGarage

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
3,191
Reaction score
4,635
How fucking hard is this to understand?

Some of the posts here really make me shake my head. The entitlement attitude runs pretty deep, even on RDP. Some of you think the cops would have shot him if he tried to unbuckle his seatbelt. Really? If he had complied from the very beginning (even after driving for 2 minutes to the well lit gas station) there would have been no issue. He was ordered out of the car. At that moment he could have easily unbuckled the belt and gotten out. Instead, he decided to act like a little bitch. And this guy is a fucking officer? No wonder our military is in trouble.

I wonder what his superior officers think about his actions.

Again, pretty disappointed in some of the reactions here. Blaming the cops because some shithead thinks the rules don't apply to him. This is why our country is so fucked up now.
 
Last edited:

riverroyal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
9,837
Reaction score
9,897
This dude is a fukn moron and obviously playing the race card to try and get his payday. Driving in a blacked out suv doesn’t pull over right away then doesn’t comply with officers. Then pulls the “I’m serving the country and this is how I’m treated” bs Anyone can buy a Fukin camo long sleeve and say that shit. He was acting exactly how all the other idiots that resist, don’t comply and then end up pulling a gun out act. So the officers had every right to have their guns drawn. That dude is an embarrassment to the fine men and women of the military.
Im not even going to watch the video. This is why it happened end of story.
His 'employment' means nothing
 

Mcob25rg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
708
Reaction score
1,216
I hope it's not too late to throw some background / facts into the mix. My son ( pride and joy of my life ) is LEO so you won't find anybody more pro police than me, BUT , my other kid lives in Richmond, so i've had experience with the various municipal enforcement. MOST of the city guys in Va. are driving around in TOTALLY unmarked cars, regular state plates, with all lights INSIDE vehicle, so it's very easy for them to blend in ( read sneek up on ) anyone, so they bring it on themselves when they try and light up someone at night. I would NEVER stop in an unlit area for lights at night in Va, but as i progress to a well light area, i put on the flashers, slow down to a crawl, roll all windows down, and pull in under lights. They do profile to an extreme - my first stop in Richmond was in a rental car. I had been on the road for about 2 minutes - rental was all black Chrysler 300 with total black wheels and trim. Daytime, seatbelt on, UNDER the speed limit, holding phone in front of me, trying to follow Google Maps to get to the freeway. Unmarked pulls up so fast and close i thought for sure he was going to hit me - figured it was a road rage issue - i must have pulled out in front of him, going to slow, and he was going to hit me. I wasn't armed ( rental car ), he finally hits his lights as a SECOND cop pulls up next to me. I do my thing, roll about 1/8 mile to WallMart, pull in, hands on wheel, car off, waiting to see what i coud have posibly done wrong. Cop #1 comes up to my side, gun drawn ( now i know he's poorly trained and into power ) and asks to see liscence, registration, insurance ( cop #2 is now pointing gun at passanger window ), i say i'm not moving until he quits pointing gun at me ( i see the camera on his chest and ask if it's on - he says do what i'm telling you ). i eventually get him my liscence, but try to explain it's a rental, i don't have registration - he screams " where's your rental agreement?" I tell him in the trunk, but i'm not moving my hands until he quits pointing the gun at my face. Now it's time to get out of the car and get cuffed, which i totally go along with - he won't tell me why he's arresting me. 20 minutes goes by with him and his buddies in a huddle, comes back, takes the cuffs of, and asks if i know all the traffic laws in Va - i tell him i have no idea what he's asking me - he tells me it's illegal to hold my phone while i'm moving in HIS state - he could impound the car, send me to jail until monday, and end up paying a fine, but since he's such a nice cop, and i'm from out of state ( Ohio ), he's just going to give me a warning, but tells me if any of his buddies catch me later, i won't be so lucky to get another warning - 10 more minutes, and i have my warning.

So, i'm white, professional, clean shaven, 64 years old, on a clear sunny saturday, but driving a car that he's decided to profile, that's my crime. I totally understand where the military guy is comming from - this is mostly representitive of the city guys. I'm willing to bet this isn't the military guys first harassing stop, and he's tired of the harassment - Va is more " south " than you might think - drive around in this wonderful state and you'll see how Law Enforcement does it's job - these guys will get fired ( as they deserve ) and "bad guy" won't ever have to work. My kid tells me the cameras are great - bad cops get fired, good ones get supported and defended.
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
10,226
Reaction score
17,290
Oh. Ok. not on duty. Thats more clear. I have no bubble to burst. You treat me as an aggressor when all I do is ask questions and try to understand. I think that is what led to another interchange where there was not much light but a lot of heat. it is unusual to have that happen, so it becomes interesting.
Your intentional whiny passive/agressive behavior isn't "ask[ing] questions and try[ing] to understand." It's the same tactic the vehicle driver was using to intentionally disobey the officer's lawful commands to exit the vehicle. It doesn't mean shit that he was doing it in his manufactured calm manner.

If a violater refuses to follow the officer's instructions, he is breaking the law. It's not difficult to comprehend.

As for the statements by posters he would have been shot if he reached for items in the glove box and was therefore in an impossible situation, that's just bullshit. When instructed to get out a vehicle registration and insurance information, the proper action is to loudly announce "I am now retrieving the documents from my glove box," and slowly do just that. The officer will provide himself effective cover, and observe the driver's actions. This is not fucking calculus and polynomials, it's something we all know, yet some refuse to comply.

From then on, any escalation that occurs is up to the driver.

And you, just like that driver, are intentionally being obtuse [look up the word]. How about stopping your silly ass games and responding to the issues raised here like a real citizen would? Drop the victim attitude, and quit acting like an aggrieved baby.
 

Rajobigguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
5,585
Your intentional whiny passive/agressive behavior isn't "ask[ing] questions and try[ing] to understand." It's the same tactic the vehicle driver was using to intentionally disobey the officer's lawful commands to exit the vehicle. It doesn't mean shit that he was doing it in his manufactured calm manner.



And you, just like that driver, are intentionally being obtuse [look up the word]. How about stopping your silly ass games and responding to the issues raised here like a real citizen would? Drop the victim attitude, and quit acting like an aggrieved baby.
 

BingerFang

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
1,158
Reaction score
2,429

Christopher Lucero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2018
Messages
625
Reaction score
383
uh. I am not obliged to 'obey' anyone in this forum. What does your inference mean? I do not see equivalence between someone that is being pursued by police and my own situation here in this social forum.

I merely ask questions to try to get to know the inmates here. It is the only way to become familiar. if by the mere asking an act of aggression (passive or otherwise) is received, that is miscommunication, and there are two parties that can choose to either work through it or become incensed by it. I continue to try to work through it. Honestly, most everyone seems willing and otherwise friendly.


When instructed to get out a vehicle registration and insurance information, the proper action is to loudly announce "I am now retrieving the documents from my glove box," and slowly do just that.
I am not sure we are going in the right direction if citizens need to go through such kabuki for a mere traffic stop. but, I am old...I recall when it was different from this
 
Last edited:
Top