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Army Lt. traffic stop

Xring01

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Reading thru alot of this thread....

A big portion of the Civilian to Police relationship, revolves around TRUST....
Trusting that police are there to do the right thing for the right reasons, when bad cops screw up. That trust erodes. Combine that with the media narrative.. Makes a bad situation that much worse. Poors gas on the fire.

As I have mentioned in similar threads....
Based on the Cops and the Medias actions on all of these types of incidents...

CRIME WILL GO UP, COPS LIVES WILL BE PUT IN GREATER DANGER....

Bad guys will be bad guys, cops have no idea if they are dealing with a bad guy, when they make any interaction with any civilian. Therefore they have to assume the worst, and have an escape plan.

But that doesnt give them an excuse to be stupid... Chauvin... thats one dumb MFKR in my opinion, his actions alone will cost several cops there lives. The moment you put cuffs on someone, there safety is the officers responsibility. Every Cop is trained this way, Chauvin screwed up. Due to this... the media reporting is that pretty much all cops are bad... Back that up with stupid shit cops are doing...

RULE NUMBER ONE DE ESCALATE THE SITUATION.....

As someone who was trained in Military Law Enforcement, and worked at the San Ysidro border for over 2 years... I have had my fair share of first hand experience....

No doubt stupid cops have created alot of distrust by the civilians they protect. NO DOUBT...
Now how do they fix that?

Next biggest question. How do we get the media, to report actual facts, instead of the narrative they want to portray..

Until then...
Cops will do the absolute minimum to keep there job, and not get into bad situations, which means the criminals will be emboldened to be more stupid, and being criminals. Crime will increase..... worst news of all... The new cops that take the job, will be trained by the dumbass's who dont care anymore. Spiraling downhill for years to come.

I support our police force, I truly do, some of my good friends/neighbors are cops. One just retired, the absolute day he was eligible... because its not worth the stress. He retired out of Riverside County Sheriff, and moved to Texas in one month... yep... couldnt get out of here fast enough. That poor bastard had one difficult job... working Meth Lab/ MJ areas, from Perris, Hemet, Anza, with no backup for hours sometimes, all by himself... Wow... But he did put alot of very bad people away.
 
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Christopher Lucero

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get the media, to report actual facts
(off topic, so consider a very minor aside, maybe something for discussion elsewhere)

reporting facts seems to be becoming a very interpretive exercise. some media now just fabricate/create a story, and hope that the story becomes the fact. This is done from every stripe, so readers and citizens must be aware and savvy consumers of information. we are in a new world where information is widely available and widely consumed at a scale not seen in our entire history.
 

spectra3279

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He would not have gotten out, he said as much.

The cops would have talked to him, made sure the car with no visible registration wasn’t stolen, check his ID and it would have been over, like 1000s of these go every single day.
Maybe I'm a pessimist, I see him getting out ,put on the ground, arrested and hauled in for resisting arrest for just asking a question. In the old days, yes I see it going your way but not now. I do agree that the cops have gotten to militarized. Follow our orders or else.

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Maybe I'm a pessimist, I see him getting out ,put on the ground, arrested and hauled in for resisting arrest for just asking a question. In the old days, yes I see it going your way but not now. I do agree that the cops have gotten to militarized. Follow our orders or else.

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With the body cams in place, I don't believe that would have happened at all. After all of that in the video, he was not arrested or ticketed at all. You can see all of that in the 30 minute extended video.
 

spectra3279

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I've been pulled over many times in my time, having a right led foot. Every time the LEO's first sentence was, do you know why I pulled you over for? Pretty simple isn't it. My answer always was, I have no clue officer, haha. They always told me what I was pulled over for!
I've only ever heard that question twice asked twice. Every other time has been

Do you have any drugs guns or alcohol in your vehicle.
If the first question was asked more often, I think if the first question was asked more often, there would be less problems.

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spectra3279

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With the body cams in place, I don't believe that would have happened at all. After all of that in the video, he was not arrested or ticketed at all. You can see all of that in the 30 minute extended video.
But the whole thing could have been de-escalated simply by telling him why he was pulled over. The officers instead maced him.

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C-Ya

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Agreed, but had he got out of the car in that 90 seconds before that, he would not have been maced.
This assumes that anyone that does not follow police commands deserve to be maced...... no matter that they are not being a threat.

Some people are handicapped

Some people don’t speak english

Some people get paralyzed when they have a gun in their face

“Insert your hated group here”

But all the above still deserve a little mace in the face!

Of course........ resisting arrest will be added to all the above police reports. Let’s keep it real! That’s how it works.
 

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This assumes that anyone that does not follow police commands deserve to be maced...... no matter that they are not being a threat.

Some people are handicapped

Some people don’t speak english

Some people get paralyzed when they have a gun in their face

“Insert your hated group here”

But all the above still deserve a little mace in the face!

Of course........ resisting arrest will be added to all the above police reports. Let’s keep it real! That’s how it works.
He said repeatedly he would not get out of the car.

And yet none of those things you mentioned were a factor here. He spoke perfect english, was not handicapped, was not paralyzed in fear. There was not police report here either, no charges were filed. They hung out with the guy until his eyes were better.
 

billperkins3@att.net

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Fellas obviously this is a hot thread with many perspectives.... I haven't read threw entire 5 pages of postings but have a question.... regarding the New Mexico cop shooting by the dude in the white truck.... why was the cop asking him to come back to his cop car? I haven't seen this before.... something he kept saying about doing "My Checks" or something or rather.... seemed different than just collecting license & reg... did he really want suspect to sit in his cop car or was it more of a "Come back out of your auto and stand with me at the hood of my car?"
 

FROGMAN524

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Fellas obviously this is a hot thread with many perspectives.... I haven't read threw entire 5 pages of postings but have a question.... regarding the New Mexico cop shooting by the dude in the white truck.... why was the cop asking him to come back to his cop car? I haven't seen this before.... something he kept saying about doing "My Checks" or something or rather.... seemed different than just collecting license & reg... did he really want suspect to sit in his cop car or was it more of a "Come back out of your auto and stand with me at the hood of my car?"
He pulled him over because DHS asked him too as they knew he was involved in a drug operation. Probably was going to cuff him as soon as he got out of the car.


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Canuck 1

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He said repeatedly he would not get out of the car.

And yet none of those things you mentioned were a factor here. He spoke perfect english, was not handicapped, was not paralyzed in fear. There was not police report here either, no charges were filed. They hung out with the guy until his eyes were better.
Hung out to cover their ass, they know they fucked up. Do people not have the right to know why they are being detained? Do you lose all your rights when you are stopped?

Those cops over reacted and got played

Respect is earned, a badge does not have a knee pad requirement attached to it
 

LargeOrangeFont

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reach for the seatbelt and get shot? No thanks..
Explain how he'd get shot when the cop flanking him from the side had a tazer, not a gun. They asked him to open the door. They would have seen he was belted in and instructed him to undo the seatbelt and he would gotten out of the car. This happens 1000s of times a day in this country. People are not getting shot or tazed by the hundreds by police.

To your point the cops instructions became unclear as their frustration grew.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Hung out to cover their ass, they know they fucked up. Do people not have the right to know why they are being detained? Do you lose all your rights when you are stopped?

Those cops over reacted and got played

Respect is earned, a badge does not have a knee pad requirement attached to it
Do the cops lose their right to live when performing a standard felony stop after a pursuit?

He had not even been detained yet, he refused to get out of the car. Asking you to exit a vehicle is not loosing any of your rights. A cop is going to tell you why you are being detained AFTER they gain control of the situation.

They sprayed a dude with mace. They pretty much used the least lethal tool at their disposal for a person that would not comply with a simple request to exit a vehicle.

Could the cops have handled it better with hindsight, sure. Could the guy have just said, "Sure I'll step out of the car." yes.

You don't have to respect cops to do what they ask. But if you want to fight with them they will engage you, and you probably won't win.

Come down to Havasu and refuse to comply for a boat "safety check" on the water. See how far that gets you.
 

C-Ya

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Do the cops lose their right to live when performing a standard felony stop after a pursuit?

He had not even been detained yet, he refused to get out of the car. Asking you to exit a vehicle is not loosing any of your rights. A cop is going to tell you why you are being detained AFTER they gain control of the situation.

They sprayed a dude with mace. They pretty much used the least lethal tool at their disposal for a person that would not comply with a simple request to exit a vehicle.

Could the cops have handled it better with hindsight, sure. Could the guy have just said, "Sure I'll step out of the car." yes.

You don't have to respect cops to do what they ask. But if you want to fight with them they will engage you, and you probably won't win.
Was he a threat when he got sprayed with mace........ Yes or No?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Was he a threat when he got sprayed with mace........ Yes or No?
When he got sprayed, yes, he was not compliant in exiting the car and said he would not do it.

After being sprayed, he was no longer a threat, which is why he did not get sprayed again or tased or anything else.

Did he need to be sprayed? I don't know I was not there in the moment. They fired the cop over the incident. I agree the cops could have handled it better and done their part to deescalate things.

Does this mean that all policing is bad? No. Do I think this was motivated by race? No. Does it mean people are human and maybe this is a teachable moment? Yes. Do I feel bad this happened, Yes.
 
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RiverDave

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Yet after the fat screaming cop was at his door, this Lt was in a bit of a conundrum --- in order to exit, it would require him a drop a hand to his waist to unbuckle his seat belt. Doing so would have surely caused fat boy to shoot, fat boy wouldn't listen, only kept repeatedly screaming. My point is --- and I've seen this countless times --- maybe the cops need to curtail or tone back the bitch screaming and actually communicate more rationally. Thereby giving this Lt the opportunity to explain --- " Officer I need to remove my belt, don't shoot me "
Dumb fucking cop keeps macing him, the attempts to drag him out while he's confined by the belt -- it was like a fucking Keystone Cops movie.
Dumb, Dumber and Dumber # 2 is what I witnessed.
agreed.. if he reached he’s getting shot.
 

C-Ya

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When he got sprayed, yes, he was not compliant in exiting the car and said he would not do it.

After being sprayed, he was no longer a threat, which is why he did not get sprayed again or tased or anything else.
Non compliance equals mace to the face? No mater the threat level. Seriously? should that be the National Standard?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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He will answer in a circular way after he puts on his knee pads for the badge
Well we aren't in Canuckistan here.

Next time you actually need the cops for something I hope you tell them they have to earn your respect when they show up to help you 😂.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Non compliance equals mace to the face? No mater the threat level. Seriously? should that be the National Standard?
When is an escalation of force necessary due to non compliance? after a minute, an hour, a day? Did you expect them to be there for 30 minutes yelling at the guy to get out of the car after he says repeatedly he's not getting out.

I don't like seeing this situation end the way it did. It certainly didn't have to. But I will counter your lack of perceived threat here will all the dash cam footage there is of cops performing routine stops and getting shot or killed from a simple roadside interaction.
 
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monkeyswrench

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Obvious who's pro cop, and who's anti-cop here...
I'm just an asshole that's been in cuffs before, and had more than the average amount of "interactions" with badged individuals.
Some went better than others...
As I sit here, waiting to pick up one of my boys from school, I've decided what is happening in the vid:
Two cops are worried about the unknown. They may have no clue as to how to respect a human, nor gain respect...times have changed, life isn't Mayberry. A lot of the country has no respect for others, badged or not.
Lt. Dumbass is just as to blame. If someone thinks this was just by chance, go ahead and believe every story on the news. If he is truly like that, I am inclined to believe he was not taught respect in his home either.
 

hallett21

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After watching that 30 min video. The senior officer has a real change of attitude. And imo is trying to cover his ass. And him giving options about leaving vs having the army get him on double jeopardy won’t help his case lol.

I understand the lieutenant wanting to pull into a well lit area. I’m not sure what the correct move is? Call 911 and explain the situation? Not sure how long it takes them to get a hold of officers?

Once he pulled in I’m not sure what you should do other than show your hands? Seat belted in there’s no way I’m undoing my own belt, nor am I reaching in to unlock.

Officers screaming get out of the car doesn’t do anything if he’s belted in. Lieutenant saying he won’t comply (get out of the car) is equally bad.

Lieutenant while showing hands gets maced. Lieutenant grabs cops hand to prevent mace. Idk how anyone could get maced and not resist/stop the spray.

I support law enforcement and I can only attempt to understand the stress that’s involved with a traffic stop. That being said I have a hard time believing LEO on here would react in the same way....?




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LargeOrangeFont

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Obvious who's pro cop, and who's anti-cop here...
I'm just an asshole that's been in cuffs before, and had more than the average amount of "interactions" with badged individuals.
Some went better than others...
As I sit here, waiting to pick up one of my boys from school, I've decided what is happening in the vid:
Two cops are worried about the unknown. They may have no clue as to how to respect a human, nor gain respect...times have changed, life isn't Mayberry. A lot of the country has no respect for others, badged or not.
Lt. Dumbass is just as to blame. If someone thinks this was just by chance, go ahead and believe every story on the news. If he is truly like that, I am inclined to believe he was not taught respect in his home either.
At the end of the day people's feeling should be acknowledged at some point, especially when the subject is being mostly rational like the Lt. was here. The cop wants to go home, and so does the Lt. here. If the Lt. was scared, the cop could have done a better job to deescalate cautiously. The Lt. could have said he'd comply but was nervous and scared. The cop led the interaction, and with the Lt. being so calm I do put more blame on the cops here for the outcome. But you can't say you are no going to get out of the car.

If society judged teachers the way we judge cops 30% of kids would not even go to school because their parents feared that all teachers were out to harm their children, and all children. It makes no sense.

When cops feel they are vilified by the public they protect we get less service from them as a whole. It is a shitty situation all around.


As an aside I'm really bummed Live PD is off the air. It really did a good job of showing cop interactions in a positive light where cops were trying to do the right thing.
 
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RiverDave

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I hope it's not too late to throw some background / facts into the mix. My son ( pride and joy of my life ) is LEO so you won't find anybody more pro police than me, BUT , my other kid lives in Richmond, so i've had experience with the various municipal enforcement. MOST of the city guys in Va. are driving around in TOTALLY unmarked cars, regular state plates, with all lights INSIDE vehicle, so it's very easy for them to blend in ( read sneek up on ) anyone, so they bring it on themselves when they try and light up someone at night. I would NEVER stop in an unlit area for lights at night in Va, but as i progress to a well light area, i put on the flashers, slow down to a crawl, roll all windows down, and pull in under lights. They do profile to an extreme - my first stop in Richmond was in a rental car. I had been on the road for about 2 minutes - rental was all black Chrysler 300 with total black wheels and trim. Daytime, seatbelt on, UNDER the speed limit, holding phone in front of me, trying to follow Google Maps to get to the freeway. Unmarked pulls up so fast and close i thought for sure he was going to hit me - figured it was a road rage issue - i must have pulled out in front of him, going to slow, and he was going to hit me. I wasn't armed ( rental car ), he finally hits his lights as a SECOND cop pulls up next to me. I do my thing, roll about 1/8 mile to WallMart, pull in, hands on wheel, car off, waiting to see what i coud have posibly done wrong. Cop #1 comes up to my side, gun drawn ( now i know he's poorly trained and into power ) and asks to see liscence, registration, insurance ( cop #2 is now pointing gun at passanger window ), i say i'm not moving until he quits pointing gun at me ( i see the camera on his chest and ask if it's on - he says do what i'm telling you ). i eventually get him my liscence, but try to explain it's a rental, i don't have registration - he screams " where's your rental agreement?" I tell him in the trunk, but i'm not moving my hands until he quits pointing the gun at my face. Now it's time to get out of the car and get cuffed, which i totally go along with - he won't tell me why he's arresting me. 20 minutes goes by with him and his buddies in a huddle, comes back, takes the cuffs of, and asks if i know all the traffic laws in Va - i tell him i have no idea what he's asking me - he tells me it's illegal to hold my phone while i'm moving in HIS state - he could impound the car, send me to jail until monday, and end up paying a fine, but since he's such a nice cop, and i'm from out of state ( Ohio ), he's just going to give me a warning, but tells me if any of his buddies catch me later, i won't be so lucky to get another warning - 10 more minutes, and i have my warning.

So, i'm white, professional, clean shaven, 64 years old, on a clear sunny saturday, but driving a car that he's decided to profile, that's my crime. I totally understand where the military guy is comming from - this is mostly representitive of the city guys. I'm willing to bet this isn't the military guys first harassing stop, and he's tired of the harassment - Va is more " south " than you might think - drive around in this wonderful state and you'll see how Law Enforcement does it's job - these guys will get fired ( as they deserve ) and "bad guy" won't ever have to work. My kid tells me the cameras are great - bad cops get fired, good ones get supported and defended.
That’s fucked up
 

RiverDave

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Explain how he'd get shot when the cop flanking him from the side had a tazer, not a gun. They asked him to open the door. They would have seen he was belted in and instructed him to undo the seatbelt and he would gotten out of the car. This happens 1000s of times a day in this country. People are not getting shot or tazed by the hundreds by police.

To your point the cops instructions became unclear as their frustration grew.
Someone screaming like that? You reach for anything you are taking your life into your own hands.. lol

if the guy would shut Up for one second and I could say I’m gonna undo the seatbelt please don’t shoot me then yeah.
 

RiverDave

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At some point we as a nation forgot the whole idea of a police force is to de-escalate situations.. The point of a military force is to win through overwhelming escalation..

when the police act like the military, bad things happen..
 

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Someone screaming like that? You reach for anything you are taking your life into your own hands.. lol

if the guy would shut Up for one second and I could say I’m gonna undo the seatbelt please don’t shoot me then yeah.
Instead he used that moment to declare "I'm not getting out" lol.

At some point we as a nation forgot the whole idea of a police force is to de-escalate situations.. The point of a military force is to win through overwhelming escalation..

when the police act like the military, bad things happen..
If it was the military, he would have been dead, not pepper sprayed.

If the cops show up at my behest and there is a violent crime happening I want overwhelming escalation to address and eliminate the threat. This is not one of those situations however, but your point is well taken, and I agree the cops could have done a better job.
 

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I think the biggest thing that jammed up the responding officer was when the Lt. said "I'm scared to get out of the car" and the officer responded with "yeah you should be"

Also, the responding officers were telling the guy to take off his seatbelt. I wouldn't say there's much risk with him reaching for his seatbelt when they told him to.
 

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Someone screaming like that? You reach for anything you are taking your life into your own hands.. lol

if the guy would shut Up for one second and I could say I’m gonna undo the seatbelt please don’t shoot me then yeah.
the officer told him to go ahead and unbelt the seat belt.
 

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Well I do believe that is his right? Maybe one of the cops on here can clarify that.
No it is not your right to sit in the car when asked to get out due to being stopped for a probable cause. A cop can detain you for anything. I don't like it, but that is the way it is. He was being detained, not arrested.

How many police chases have you seen where the cops let the person sit in the car they were just perusing just keep sitting in the car because that is their wish. How about DUI stops where the suspect just sits in the car because they don't want to get out. That happens 0 times.

They had probable cause to detain him because of the lack of a visible license plate or registration.
 

C-Ya

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With a tazer at worst.
Have you seen the story on the news of the accidental shooting? I guess the officer mistook their taser for their gun?

it Is not very comforting to see the comments from those in law enforcement condoning the actions in the video. It was at 11 on the amplifier before the vehicle even came to a stop? A so called felony stop at that? Who declared it a felony stop? For registration? Not the LT? Who sounded like a complete asshole? Who maced who? Who showed no respect for those in our armed services? Who looks like the aggressor to the National audience? Who lost their job? Who threatened the LT with a legal case if he didn’t let it Go? Is that how we treat veterans? It looked like he was trying to cover his ass to me? Do you think the video will help or hurt race relations in America? Should our nation be in fear of being pulled over by police? For one group, this has been a reality for a long time. Do you agree? Or is that just Made up by the liberals and no real evidence exists that certain groups of people are treated differently?


Every time one of these videos come out..... it’s all hands on deck on every website to defend the police actions. Whatever happened to just admitting that LE fucked up?
 

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I didn't know you have to exit car for a traffic stop, i didn't know you can get sprayed if you don't. I didn't you they don't have to tell you why you have been pulled over. The few times i have been pulled over the worse thing you can do is exit the car.
 

hallett21

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the officer told him to go ahead and unbelt the seat belt.
So what? It’s a lose lose situation. How does the cop know there’s not a fire arm inside?


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monkeyswrench

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It's alway LE fucked up, or the "Victim" fucked up...
Why not look at it through a different prism? There is the possibility that all parties fucked up.
Did Lt do what he was told? No.
Did LE handle it right? Also no.

Same with Floyd and Chauvin. If Floyd wouldn't have been breaking the law, no reason for Chauvin to be there. Did Chauvin screw up by just not loading him up, yep.
 

C-Ya

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I didn't know you have to exit car for a traffic stop, i didn't know you can get sprayed if you don't. I didn't you they don't have to tell you why you have been pulled over. The few times i have been pulled over the worse thing you can do is exit the car.
I would not be getting my legal advice from this site......

The 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments are your friend. Hopefully..... one day, they will make the reading of the constitution part of the LE training. So far, it does not appear that it has been read by all 800,000 members of the Law Enforcement community. Just a observation on my part.
 

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Have you seen the story on the news of the accidental shooting? I guess the officer mistook their taser for their gun?

it Is not very comforting to see the comments from those in law enforcement condoning the actions in the video. It was at 11 on the amplifier before the vehicle even came to a stop? A so called felony stop at that? Who declared it a felony stop? For registration? Not the LT? Who sounded like a complete asshole? Who maced who? Who showed no respect for those in our armed services? Who looks like the aggressor to the National audience? Who lost their job? Who threatened the LT with a legal case if he didn’t let it Go? Is that how we treat veterans? It looked like he was trying to cover his ass to me? Do you think the video will help or hurt race relations in America? Should our nation be in fear of being pulled over by police? For one group, this has been a reality for a long time. Do you agree? Or is that just Made up by the liberals and no real evidence exists that certain groups of people are treated differently?


Every time one of these videos come out..... it’s all hands on deck on every website to defend the police actions. Whatever happened to just admitting that LE fucked up?
I know, and that is a very shitty situation with the accidental shooting. The media narrative there was he got pulled over for having an air freshener hanging from his mirror.. No, the guy had a warrant. But the accidental shooting is very tragic, and that didn't need to happen.

We have it on video that this cop did indeed have a taser and not a gun.

In this situation the cops declared it a felony stop because it was labeled a pursuit because the LT didn't pull over for over 2 minutes.

Why is any of this about race? If the LT was white, we wouldn't even be hearing about this. You think the cops that pulled him over are racist? The cop is also a veteran, and he didn't threaten the LT with any legal case. He said we can press charges or let you go. Was he covering his ass because he overreacted? Maybe so.

Show me the numbers again of what groups of people get killed by the police, because the science and the numbers tell a different story. I get that the narratives tell a different story, but cops are not out hunting minorities.

Explain how these isolated incidents of police misconduct make all police suspects?
 

C-Ya

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It's alway LE fucked up, or the "Victim" fucked up...
Why not look at it through a different prism? There is the possibility that all parties fucked up.
Did Lt do what he was told? No.
Did LE handle it right? Also no.

Same with Floyd and Chauvin. If Floyd wouldn't have been breaking the law, no reason for Chauvin to be there. Did Chauvin screw up by just not loading him up, yep.
You are assuming that everyone can hear. That everyone speaks English. That the driver is not frightened. And on and on....

It should not be the standard for the above reasons.
 

River Runnin

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It's alway LE fucked up, or the "Victim" fucked up...
Why not look at it through a different prism? There is the possibility that all parties fucked up.
Did Lt do what he was told? No.
Did LE handle it right? Also no.

Same with Floyd and Chauvin. If Floyd wouldn't have been breaking the law, no reason for Chauvin to be there. Did Chauvin screw up by just not loading him up, yep.
I bet his CO will see it right! -- unless he's a closet lefty 🤔 -- Fucker would be going to motivation training for a week, maybe even an -- undesirable!

Oh! Fuk! -- That's the Marine Corp! --- He Army! .... He'll likely get promoted!
 

LargeOrangeFont

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You are assuming that everyone can hear. That everyone speaks English. That the driver is not frightened. And on and on....

It should not be the standard for the above reasons.
But he could hear, could speak English, and was not acting erratic., just wasn't complying. Nothing is "standard" with any of this. Every incident is different. The cops saw he had a military uniform on, was in an unmarked car, took 2 mins to pull over. Does he have a weapon? Are there others in the car? The cops don't know that going in.

I'm not disagreeing with you that this spiraled out of control from input on both sides. But is this a racist incident with cops trying to maim minorities? No it is not from what I saw.
 
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ArizonaKevin

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You are assuming that everyone can hear. That everyone speaks English. That the driver is not frightened. And on and on....

It should not be the standard for the above reasons.
In the United States 0.22% of the population is deaf and around 0.3%-0.5% neither speak nor understand english. We should absolutely ensure officers have the ability to work with situations like that but those outliers should not define policy for the other 99% of interactions.

Shameless plug, we are working on developing virtual reality based training to help officers respond to situations like outlined above.

 

hallett21

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But he could hear, could speak English, and was not acting erratic., just wasn't complying. Nothing is "standard" with any of this. Every incident is different. The cops saw he had a military uniform on, was in an unmarked car, took 2 mins to pull over. Does he have a weapon? Are there others in the car? The cops don't know that going in.

I'm not disagreeing with you that this spiraled out of control from input on both sides, but is this a racist incident with cops trying to maim minorities, no it is not from what I saw.
Personally I do not see this being about race.

However the attorneys will have some fun back and forth with the rookie’s statement about “cops” and “you guys” lol. Honestly I believe he was just being sincere but we’re living in a different world.


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RiverDave

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No it is not your right to sit in the car when asked to get out due to being stopped for a probable cause. A cop can detain you for anything. I don't like it, but that is the way it is. He was being detained, not arrested.

How many police chases have you seen where the cops let the person sit in the car they were just perusing just keep sitting in the car because that is their wish. How about DUI stops where the suspect just sits in the car because they don't want to get out. That happens 0 times.

They had probable cause to detain him because of the lack of a visible license plate or registration.
Well I’m not entirely sure that is accurate
 

C-Ya

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Personally I do not see this being about race.

However the attorneys will have some fun back and forth with the rookie’s statement about “cops” and “you guys” lol. Honestly I believe he was just being sincere but we’re living in a different world.


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Sorry about mentioning the race thing. I basically mentioned it because the video shows white officers dealing with a black man. Even if I did not mention it....... the National audience sees it that way according to the news.
 

Flying_Lavey

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agreed.. if he reached he’s getting shot.
No. This is why I asked about the other officer and approaching on the passenger side. He would be able to keep the other hand in his vision thus making it a safe move if done properly.

How do you think people ever get out of their vehicles any other time when directed to?
 
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