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Bad boat accident at mouth of river

cofooter

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If the alternative was running over a boat and killing 2 people...yes, that's exactly what he should have done.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out especially considering the overtaking law boatcap mentioned if that was even a factor. Lots of lessons potentially should be learned with this tragic accident.
 

bk2drvr

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Stepping back and looking at this from a 30k ft view as well as looking forward into the future, is the lake traffic on Lake Havasu at or getting to the point where big boats running at high speed just doesn't work anymore? Do you think lake traffic is going to keep increasing over the coming years?

I hike in a canyon near my house that used to be a big mountain biking area with lots of hills and places to go fast. Been hiking it every week for the last 15 years. The canyon now is loaded with hikers, walkers, families trying to get their fat kids in shape and the mountain bikers are all gone because they can't haul ass through there anymore. See where I'm going with this?
 

DrunkenSailor

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To be fair...a 40ft boat doing 70 might as well be a school bus with no brakes. A 40ft V bottom cannot outhandle much of anything in the 20ft range. While it's not a 100mph boat by any means...the fact that it was within striking distance of a 20ft boat at planing speeds means that the driver was not prepared to avoid whatever unpredictable situation that might have occured in front of them.

Sometimes it's best to simply stop and let everyone else clear away. If you're running a 40+ ft boat on the river....I would venture to say that it is the duty of operator of said boat...knowing that it's on the larger end of what is acceptable or practical on the river, to stay very fucking far away from anything in the 20ft range for obvious reasons.
I was going to stay out of this thread but I gotta disagree with you here. One of my general rules is if I am navigating the same stretch of water with a vessel that is less maneuverable than I am I give them a wide berth. Be it a sailboat, a cabin cruiser or a container ship. The latter is pretty damn scary in the Catalina fog bank... Let the larger vessel hold their line and react to their actions accordingly not the other way around. On a body of water like the river or an inland lake this holds even more true as the larger vessel is going to have a deeper draft and may have to make course corrections to remain in deeper water.

I am not in anyway commenting on this accident as I do not know any of the particulars. Just commenting on how I treat traffic that is less maneuverable than I am.

Rest in peace and prayers for the families and the people involved on both boats.
 

Tank

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Stepping back and looking at this from a 30k ft view as well as looking forward into the future, is the lake traffic on Lake Havasu at or getting to the point where big boats running at high speed just doesn't work anymore? Do you think lake traffic is going to keep increasing over the coming years?

I hike in a canyon near my house that used to be a big mountain biking area with lots of hills and places to go fast. Been hiking it every week for the last 15 years. The canyon now is loaded with hikers, walkers, families trying to get their fat kids in shape and the mountain bikers are all gone because they can't haul ass through there anymore. See where I'm going with this?
First, I didn't read anywhere that crowding was a cause of this collision. Two boats going same direction, something happened. I didn't see that a 3rd boat was involved or that it was caused due to crowding. So I don't think a crowding issue is even relevant when talking about this accident.

But to answer your question, it's pretty common topic that havasu has been very busy on weekends for a couple months now. To the point people say it looks like a holiday weekend every weekend. I don't think this will sustain. It's mostly people coming from Ca. that are tired of being locked down and know Az is a bit more laxed. Kids aren't in school, aren't in sports, and wives and or husbands (moms / dads) are off work, working from home (i.e. they can travel) so everyone hits Havasu. once the scamdemic is over, things will chill out. Just my .02.
 

RiverDave

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I also find it funny that just because the MTI can maybe do 80mph, he was doing 80 at the time of the accident?
boat runs 76 with a light load.. more like 72 with 10 guys and duke / gear / drinks etc..

The driver is very conservative and usually just cruises when driving so I’d guess more like 50’ish.. I wasn’t there so can’t say.
 

Dirtbag

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I live in California and I am positive that I live closer to the river than you and that I have more hours in a boat on the river than you.


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How is this even remotely relevant. We live in both places. We have been boating since i was a child. Means didly fuckin squat. Accidents happen. Shit Happens. No reason to change laws and ruin boating for all because of one incident.
 

zhandfull

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Terrible accident.

With the information that’s been posted. I look at the Eliminator pictures and think to myself. it doesn’t look like it was hit broadsided.Thing is I can’t tell if it was ran over from the stern to bow or bow to stern. damage on both ends and the Bimini top has been rip off. Be interesting to hear the results of the final investigation .

I suspect there was multiple witnesses that saw the events that led up to and possible the accident itself
 

SoCalDave

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Depends upon the Mormon -I know a lot of them that drink....
Wasn't going to reply to some post here but this is totally uncalled for in a thread like this...fkn unbelievable some of the compassion from inmate's for all parties involved here...prayers to all involved in this tragic accident.
 

BoatCop

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Terrible accident.

With the information that’s been posted. I look at the Eliminator pictures and think to myself. it doesn’t look like it was hit broadsided.Thing is I can’t tell if it was ran over from the stern to bow or bow to stern. damage on both ends and the Bimini top has been rip off. Be interesting to hear the results of the final investigation .

I suspect there was multiple witnesses that saw the events that led up to and possible the accident itself
The boat damage, from the limited pictures available, tells little about what happened, angle of approach, point of initial impact, relative direction of travel, etc. Unless you can fully understand the various forces, such as surface tension, yaw, pitch, and other factors unique to vessel collisions, the damage shown means nothing. I've investigated or reconstructed hundreds of collisions, and I can't tell what happened from the pics, and couldn't even being to speculate.

I would love to be privy to the investigation, but alas, I've left that life behind.
 

YeahYeah01

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I was out cruising and passed the busiest section of the lake, a large cove with a narrow opening that contains a big marina. There is always heavy traffic accelerating and decelerating in two lanes, with bows high.

Right in the middle of all this was a small open bow boat, towing a large inflatable with four kids on it. I drove towards the shore and stopped to watch. The driver was going fast and whipping the towable, and the kids were being thrown off right after the boat got on plane. He would slowly circle around to the kids to pick them up. He didn't have a flag.

Meanwhile, boats were coming and going from the cove, and one almost ran over two kids. When the boat stopped to retrieve them, I idled over and hailed the driver.

In a totally non-confrontational manner, I said something like 'Maybe you're unfamiliar with the lake, this is an extremely busy lane in and out of the cove. If you go around that point, there's a sheltered area with no traffic, it would be safer for the kids'.

Instantly the guy blew up. 'Don't fucking tell me what to do, I know how to drive a boat and ...' He went on for at least a minute. I just started my boat and drove away.

There are many more idiots just like him on the water every day. Not much you can do as an individual.

:rolleyes:
It happens... But don't let that stop you from saying the same thing to someone else, it might save someone.
 

PlanB

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How did the scene play out after that? Did it sink? Was he screaming and freaking out? Were you? Did he even know?
His boat did not sink. The driver did not say a word to us, but his wife was a bitch. Waited an hour for MCSO to arrive and was finally directed to Windsor via phone. The driver of the other boat knew the deputy personally so he walked. I made a comment about the guy being drunk and the deputy basically told us to fuck off. Five guys in my boat, all active LEO's in California at the time. We were all blown away, but at least nobody was hurt. Paid out of pocket to fix some gel damage and never heard from the other guy or LE again.
 

Duramax

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boat runs 76 with a light load.. more like 72 with 10 guys and duke / gear / drinks etc..

The driver is very conservative and usually just cruises when driving so I’d guess more like 50’ish.. I wasn’t there so can’t say.
Yeah, that was a roll eyes on my part. I can almost promise you he was cruising 50ish at most, but for the non-boating group, if the boat has a top speed of 80mph, that's of course how fast they were going when the accident took place. I feel horrible for all involved.
 

New to boating

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Wasn't going to reply to some post here but this is totally uncalled for in a thread like this...fkn unbelievable some of the compassion from inmate's for all parties involved here...prayers to all involved in this tragic accident.
I think you are taking it out of context. The point of my post is I don't think you can "throw a blanket" over all people that are "Mormon" they simply do not all behave the same... so to say - "they don't do this, they don't do that".... its like saying "well he was Irish, so he probably was wasted because "ALL IRISHMAN" are Drunks - and they clearly are not.

I was surprised that this was the approach .... "He's Morman...... " I would be more focused on him being capable of running the boat well (or not), not where he attends church.

Dave says the designated driver is a capable - (do we know if he was running the boat?) and if he was running it, and Dave knows he is capable I beleive its probably correct - that's what investigations are for.

The incident is very tragic... I am not minimizing that and no one can. The reality is the River is a lot more crowded since the COVID as many have stated. It's trickier than it ever has been especially on the weekends. Go slower, throttle back..... The 42 Quad MTI takes up a lot of real estate in the River and its a big boat for the River but there are a lot of bigger boats in the river from time to time.... does not mean its inherently unsafe.....accidents are rare regardless of the boat lenghts.

From the official reports so far (I have only seen the initial report, and the "update") sounds like they were both traveling in the same direction.... Boat Cop (who I don't know but I suspect he knows the rules if he enforces it for a living) says if both traveling in the same direction its automatically the responsibility of the overtaking boat to avoid the accident. When I read that I have thought of all of the times I have been running through the river fast, and run past a slower boat (overtaking) and in practice (not what the statute says but how it actually works) if a boat makes an unexpected hard turn right in front of you and you T-bone it are you still at fault?.

I'm not saying that is what happened, I don'e know what happened - but I would be curious about how the "fault" would be applied
 

New to boating

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What the fuck dude? RD knows the guy. Guy doesn’t drink. And he’s mormon. Stop already.
I think you are taking it out of context. The point of my post is I don't think you can "throw a blanket" over all people that are "Mormon" they simply do not all behave the same... so to say - "they don't do this, they don't do that".... its like saying "well he was Irish, so he probably was wasted because "ALL IRISHMAN" are Drunks - and they clearly are not.

I was surprised that this was the approach .... "He's Morman...... " I would be more focused on him being capable of running the boat well (or not), not where he attends church.

Dave says the designated driver is a capable - (do we know if he was running the boat?) and if he was running it, and Dave knows he is capable I beleive its probably correct - that's what investigations are for.

The incident is very tragic... I am not minimizing that and no one can. The reality is the River is a lot more crowded since the COVID as many have stated. It's trickier than it ever has been especially on the weekends. Go slower, throttle back..... The 42 Quad MTI takes up a lot of real estate in the River and its a big boat for the River but there are a lot of bigger boats in the river from time to time.... does not mean its inherently unsafe.....accidents are rare regardless of the boat lenghts.

From the official reports so far (I have only seen the initial report, and the "update") sounds like they were both traveling in the same direction.... Boat Cop (who I don't know but I suspect he knows the rules if he enforces it for a living) says if both traveling in the same direction its automatically the responsibility of the overtaking boat to avoid the accident. When I read that I have thought of all of the times I have been running through the river fast, and run past a slower boat (overtaking) and in practice (not what the statute says but how it actually works) if a boat makes an unexpected hard turn right in front of you and you T-bone it are you still at fault?.

I'm not saying that is what happened, I don'e know what happened - but I would be curious about how the "fault" would be applied
 

94Nautique

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Stepping back and looking at this from a 30k ft view as well as looking forward into the future, is the lake traffic on Lake Havasu at or getting to the point where big boats running at high speed just doesn't work anymore? Do you think lake traffic is going to keep increasing over the coming years?

I hike in a canyon near my house that used to be a big mountain biking area with lots of hills and places to go fast. Been hiking it every week for the last 15 years. The canyon now is loaded with hikers, walkers, families trying to get their fat kids in shape and the mountain bikers are all gone because they can't haul ass through there anymore. See where I'm going with this?
fat kids are getting canoes? ;)
 
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RiverDave

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I think you are taking it out of context. The point of my post is I don't think you can "throw a blanket" over all people that are "Mormon" they simply do not all behave the same... so to say - "they don't do this, they don't do that".... its like saying "well he was Irish, so he probably was wasted because "ALL IRISHMAN" are Drunks - and they clearly are not.

I was surprised that this was the approach .... "He's Morman...... " I would be more focused on him being capable of running the boat well (or not), not where he attends church.

Dave says the designated driver is a capable - (do we know if he was running the boat?) and if he was running it, and Dave knows he is capable I beleive its probably correct - that's what investigations are for.

The incident is very tragic... I am not minimizing that and no one can. The reality is the River is a lot more crowded since the COVID as many have stated. It's trickier than it ever has been especially on the weekends. Go slower, throttle back..... The 42 Quad MTI takes up a lot of real estate in the River and its a big boat for the River but there are a lot of bigger boats in the river from time to time.... does not mean its inherently unsafe.....accidents are rare regardless of the boat lenghts.

From the official reports so far (I have only seen the initial report, and the "update") sounds like they were both traveling in the same direction.... Boat Cop (who I don't know but I suspect he knows the rules if he enforces it for a living) says if both traveling in the same direction its automatically the responsibility of the overtaking boat to avoid the accident. When I read that I have thought of all of the times I have been running through the river fast, and run past a slower boat (overtaking) and in practice (not what the statute says but how it actually works) if a boat makes an unexpected hard turn right in front of you and you T-bone it are you still at fault?.

I'm not saying that is what happened, I don'e know what happened - but I would be curious about how the "fault" would be applied
To be clear I said the same guy always drives the boat(s) (all of them) and he doesn’t drink. I asked him why one time andhe said he’s Mormon and he doesn’t drink.
As for Irishmen basically they are all drunks.. lol. J/K

that all said for all I know maybe the eliminator over took the MTI and then did this maneuver.. I don’t know I wasn’t there, the initial report though tends to abstain the MTI from fault unless I read it wrong.
 

Havasu blue label

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Try ‘this put a boogie board in the water then lay down on it hard watch the board go to the right . If a bigger boat goes over the back of the smaller boat it to will go right . Or maybe the driver of the smaller boat seen the bigger boat in the same lane and tried to get out of the way or maybe somebody was standing in front of drivers view not a hole lot of sitting on that boat
 

Justfishing

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Isnt there a 100'rule. That is you must stay at least 100 ' from other boats docks etc. Some of the videos i see from lhc the boats run awfully close. Was this more of a case of running to close together, no time to react to the other boat.
 

RiverDave

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Try ‘this put a boogie board in the water then lay down on it hard watch the board go to the right . If a bigger boat goes over the back of the smaller boat it to will go right . Or maybe the driver of the smaller boat seen the bigger boat in the same lane and tried to get out of the way or maybe somebody was standing in front of drivers view not a hole lot of sitting on that boat
The MTI did not run into the back of the smaller boat.. I wish people would stop alluding to false information. Read the Sherriff’s release.
 
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cofooter

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The MTI did not run into the back of the smaller boat.. I wish people would stop alluding to false information. Read the Sherriff’s release.
We need another MCSO update to stop the BS.
 

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Sorry didn’t read the article that said the smaller boat was at fault and intoxicated driver
 

Joker

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The MTI did not run into the back of the smaller boat.. I wish people would stop alluding to false information. Read the Sherriff’s release.
Dave, do you ever wish you were on the boat like you were supposed to be so that you could have first hand accounts of what happened?
 

79 HUSTLER

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Try ‘this put a boogie board in the water then lay down on it hard watch the board go to the right . If a bigger boat goes over the back of the smaller boat it to will go right . Or maybe the driver of the smaller boat seen the bigger boat in the same lane and tried to get out of the way or maybe somebody was standing in front of drivers view not a hole lot of sitting on that boat
What type of crack are you on? Honest question...
 

rumdad

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Does anybody have a link to the sheriff's report?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

riverroyal

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Try ‘this put a boogie board in the water then lay down on it hard watch the board go to the right . If a bigger boat goes over the back of the smaller boat it to will go right . Or maybe the driver of the smaller boat seen the bigger boat in the same lane and tried to get out of the way or maybe somebody was standing in front of drivers view not a hole lot of sitting on that boat
What. They haven't been called boogie boards in 20 years. Body boards. Body boards
Unbelievable
 

RiverDave

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Dave, do you ever wish you were on the boat like you were supposed to be so that you could have first hand accounts of what happened?
I have seen enough horrible shit on the water for a life time.. I grew up in Parker in the 90’s..

On one hand yes in this case, just to clear up any rumors.. but knowing how it turned out for the smaller boat from the recovery people.. I’m glad I didn’t have to see that.
 

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Try it With any floating device weight over floatin device always right no drugs here just a very smart and cautious middle age dude that has been boating in havasu since 1970 in my dads boat and my personal 27 Daytona eliminator its all common sense you going to navigat a boat at a high rate of speed in a channel of 50 yards at most of usable water depth wise with water deep Changing every 6 hours
 

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You said the same thing about the kids that robbed the old folks at smiths . they received a spanking .
 

HGP3

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I think you are taking it out of context. The point of my post is I don't think you can "throw a blanket" over all people that are "Mormon" they simply do not all behave the same... so to say - "they don't do this, they don't do that".... its like saying "well he was Irish, so he probably was wasted because "ALL IRISHMAN" are Drunks - and they clearly are not.

I was surprised that this was the approach .... "He's Morman...... " I would be more focused on him being capable of running the boat well (or not), not where he attends church.

Dave says the designated driver is a capable - (do we know if he was running the boat?) and if he was running it, and Dave knows he is capable I beleive its probably correct - that's what investigations are for.

The incident is very tragic... I am not minimizing that and no one can. The reality is the River is a lot more crowded since the COVID as many have stated. It's trickier than it ever has been especially on the weekends. Go slower, throttle back..... The 42 Quad MTI takes up a lot of real estate in the River and its a big boat for the River but there are a lot of bigger boats in the river from time to time.... does not mean its inherently unsafe.....accidents are rare regardless of the boat lenghts.

From the official reports so far (I have only seen the initial report, and the "update") sounds like they were both traveling in the same direction.... Boat Cop (who I don't know but I suspect he knows the rules if he enforces it for a living) says if both traveling in the same direction its automatically the responsibility of the overtaking boat to avoid the accident. When I read that I have thought of all of the times I have been running through the river fast, and run past a slower boat (overtaking) and in practice (not what the statute says but how it actually works) if a boat makes an unexpected hard turn right in front of you and you T-bone it are you still at fault?.

I'm not saying that is what happened, I don'e know what happened - but I would be curious about how the "fault" would be applied
Try summarizing some of your points. Damn.
 

6 balls

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Dave, do you ever wish you were on the boat like you were supposed to be so that you could have first hand accounts of what happened?
What the fuck kind of question is that?... Why would anyone WISH to be on that boat?

As it is, there are 10 people that were on that boat that will never be able to unsee what they saw that evening!
 

billperkins3@att.net

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What type of crack are you on? Honest question...
I can say that when I post on here after maybe around 7pm I've for sure been partying.... its one of my favorite night time activities.... and I try not to do much drunk posting.... but its hard to resist.
 

79 HUSTLER

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I can say that when I post on here after maybe around 7pm I've for sure been partying.... its one of my favorite night time activities.... and I try not to do much drunk posting.... but its hard to resist.
Sad thing is, his posts are the same in the AM or the PM. It does not matter what time it is, his post never make any sense.
 

Justfishing

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Sorry didn’t read the article that said the smaller boat was at fault and intoxicated driver
Where did you read intoxicated driver? Mti boat tested. Unknown driver of other boat.

In referring to report in post 387 it said the driver turned into the side of the mti. It did not assign fault. The overtaking vessel, mti, can still be at fault until the overtaking is deemed complete.
 

Looking Glass

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Where did you read intoxicated driver? Mti boat tested. Unknown driver of other boat.

In referring to report in post 387 it said the driver turned into the side of the mti. It did not assign fault. The overtaking vessel, mti, can still be at fault until the overtaking is deemed complete.

Thank-You!! Reading other posts in here, fault determined and Case closed.
 

BingerFang

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I was at the river this weekend and couldn’t help but keep thinking about this terrible accident and what happened. With that being said I have a similar boat to the one that was hit and they do not take big waves very well. Sometimes you don’t see big rollers until the last minute and in order to not beat the shit out of yourself, boat and all the passengers you have to turn the boat and hit the waves from an angle instead of straight on.

Is it possible that was the reason the boat made a sharp turn in front of the MTI?
 

RiverDave

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Where did you read intoxicated driver? Mti boat tested. Unknown driver of other boat.

In referring to report in post 387 it said the driver turned into the side of the mti. It did not assign fault. The overtaking vessel, mti, can still be at fault until the overtaking is deemed complete.
That’s also assuming the elim didn’t pass them and then make a hard turn into them.. there’s a couple different ways that could have went down..
 
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