Best Half Ton Truck on the Market?

[stoker22405]

Well my Silverado 1500 is still in the shop for a bad transmission. 34 days now. So I would say stay away from Chevy. Mine will be dumped for an F150 after the chip shortage settles down.

Dont know what year you have...But I am pretty sure Ford and Chevy share the same transmission now...You may want to look into that.

 

[Xring01]

 

[Chili Palmer]

It's such a vague question. It really depends on what you are going to do with it. There are a lot of great 1/2 tons on the market these days. For instance if plan on doing so serious towing then the the F-150 max tow hybrid is going to be tough to beat. If you are planning on doing some really fast paced off roading then the Raptor is for you you. If you just want a really nice truck to cruise around in luxury and do a bit of home depot hauling then the F- 150 Platinum would be the right choice. For light duty off road the F-150 FX-4 is a good choice.

Just so you don't go thinking that I'm a brand loyalist. Some of the Rams are OK, although I would have a problem driving around with a vehicle that has depictions of a women's fallopian tubes plastered all over it.

The Fords are nice, but they just don't have a decent V8 - they push you to the TT 3.5 V6. On the Raptor forums guys are having the cam phasers replaced multiple times, there are all sorts of electrical gremlins in the infotainment system and the rear camera just quits. Yes, every make has their issues, but I don't see nearly as many on the GM trucks. Chrysler treated me like a red-headed stepchild when I had issues on my Ram - so no more Mopars for me.

 

[Runs2rch]

The Fords are nice, but they just don't have a decent V8 - they push you to the TT 3.5 V6. On the Raptor forums guys are having the cam phasers replaced multiple times, there are all sorts of electrical gremlins in the infotainment system and the rear camera just quit. Yes, every make has their issues, but I don't see nearly as many on the GM trucks. Chrysler treated me like a red-headed stepchild when I had issues on my Ram - so no more Mopars for me.

Issue with the cam phasers is two part. Bad parts as well as the long oil change interval. I change ours at 5k using Motorcraft synthetic. The AFM in the GM's is the same. They don't like dirty or inferior oil.

 

[BingerFang]

My buddy has the new dodge 1500 and it has the most bitchin stereo w/surround sound I’ve ever heard. I would definitely consider one of those if I wanted to waste money on a new truck.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Every brand has issues. So when you get the Ford and it has an issue will you dump it for a Ram or Toyota?

The Ford issues are usually 100x more complicated and insanely expensive out of warranty. Twin turbos, 4 camshafts, 2 phasers, etc etc etc. The complexity causes long lead times to get your truck back out of service when they do shit the bed.

If its under warranty, it's all good. The performance of the twin turbo 3.5 is without match towing, but just like a diesel, it is a complex beast with lots of pieces that can and do fail.

The other 3 consist of a regular V8, no turbos, and a much simpler design. Less to fail, easier to fix, cheaper to fix. Of course if your getting the "BS Hybrid" edition of anything, you've just introduced a 48V belt start generator, liquid cooled battery, high voltage inverter, etc to your basic v8 and you now have yourself an expensive to fix complicated motor lol.....KISS

 

[badgas]

True story. The only difference (I think) will be resale value down the road?

Yeah resale will be better with the Toyota in the long run assuming things are "Normal" again. Used cars are crazy last time I looked the Tundra that I sold for $32K was worth $35K and the Ford that I paid $19K for in sept 2020 was worth $24K and they have probably gone up again.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

My opinions below

Most proven package: Tundra (shit it better be with a 16 year old design)

Best interior: Ram, although the '21 fords are now making a push at the interior throne. Chevy and toyota are way behind here IMO

Best engine: Tough one, ecoboost and powerboost are no doubt powerhouses, unfortunately myself and 2 of my friends have had overheating issues pulling heavy loads, myself and 1 of my friends have also had boost issues. They also suck down fuel whenever you are making boost. 5.7 hemi and 5.7 toyota are definitely proven, not as much outright power as other options. I'd probably give the title 6.2 chevy for gasser, and probably 3.0 duramax for the half ton diesel crowd.

Best chassis: Probably give the title to Ford here, highest towing and payload numbers means they are doing something right, although they are all pretty close. Air suspension on the ram is a nice touch

Transmission: Chevy and ford 10 speed are exactly the same hardware, but differ in the tuning. I feel like the Chevy has the upper hand on tuning, probably an easier tuning job not having to deal with turbo lag and as much torque limiting in the lower gears. 8 speed ZF in the ram is put in a myriad of different vehicles the world over, butter smooth shifts and seems to be reliable and virtually the same ratio spread as the 10 speeds. I'd put it as a true toss up here between the Chevy 10 and the Ram 8.

Overall if I had to pick a truck tomorrow, it would probably be the ram Laramie with a 5.7, the nice interior with the big screen and cooled seats and the offroad group to get the rear locker and skid plates. That being said, I am eagerly waiting more details on the new tundra. I am okay with the styling, think it will look really nice with some slightly bigger tires. Hoping their engineers have figured out the smaller boosted v6 world. People seem to love that engine in the lexus LC500.

 

[NorCalRiverRat]

Titan, only because it has not been mentioned.

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..

 

[pronstar]

Overall if I had to pick a truck tomorrow, it would probably be the ram Laramie with a 5.7, the nice interior with the big screen and cooled seats and the offroad group to get the rear locker and skid plates. That being said, I am eagerly waiting more details on the new tundra. I am okay with the styling, think it will look really nice with some slightly bigger tires. Hoping their engineers have figured out the smaller boosted v6 world. People seem to love that engine in the lexus LC500.

I’m hoping the Tundra will bring Toyota reliability to a turbo V6…time will tell when it gets to work hauling loads uphill for miles on end.

Just FYI the LC500 still rocks an old-school V8. I think you meant the LS500 sedan, it’s got the turbo V6 [emoji106]

One of these days I’ll get me something with a Toyota or Lexus V8…preferably Lexus, because they’re built at the industry-leading Tahara plant. They’re just great engines, and it’s sad to see them go by the wayside.


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[spectras only]

Don't buy the F-150 Ecoboost. It's too fast. Cop put mine on the tow truck yesterday, sending it to holding compound for 7 days, after me beating a Chebby on the highway. Pisses me off that I had may Passport 9500 in the glove compartment. He was cool, didn't loose my driving lic, so I'm off to the racetrack in my Miata today
Worst part is, my wife called me an idiot and probably won't talk to me for a few days.
I'll be sticking to drive racecars fast for now on. This one is ready for this week. along the Radical

 

[c_land]

I’m hoping the Tundra will bring Toyota reliability to a turbo V6…time will tell when it gets to work hauling loads uphill for miles on end.

Just FYI the LC500 still rocks an old-school V8. I think you meant the LS500 sedan, it’s got the turbo V6 [emoji106]

One of these days I’ll get me something with a Toyota or Lexus V8…preferably Lexus, because they’re built at the industry-leading Tahara plant. They’re just great engines, and it’s sad to see them go by the wayside.


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Toyota train fro me too. I'd buy a current year tundra and be happy for years.

I'm pretty sure you're aware @pronstar, for everyone else's info:

The japanese concepts Kaizen and Jidoka that have been integrated into the manufacturing process bred a culture of reliability into that brand.

Pretty good explanation by these guys:

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Toyota train fro me too. I'd buy a current year tundra and be happy for years.

I'm pretty sure you're aware @pronstar, for everyone else's info:

The japanese concepts Kaizen and Jidoka that have been integrated into the manufacturing process bred a culture of reliability into that brand.

Pretty good explanation by these guys:

You are confusing reliability with lack of innovation

The Toyota truck platforms, 4runner included are a decade or more behind the technology curve.

The engines get horrible mileage for their power output, the transmissions are archaic. The chassis are approaching 2 decades old. They have just been doing face lifts and technology band aids for the last 10 years.

They are reliable and hold their value, but there is 0 innovation in a new 4Runner, Tacoma or Tundra. I’m not saying they are bad vehicles, I have a late model 4Runner, but aside from the Bluetooth and backup camera, I might as well be driving a 2004 4Runner, and my F150 gets better mileage with a smaller engine and makes 40% more power.

 

[FreeBird236]

You are confusing reliability with lack of innovation

The Toyota truck platforms, 4runner included are a decade or more behind the technology curve.

The engines get horrible mileage for their power output, the transmissions are archaic. The chassis are approaching 2 decades old. They have just been doing face lifts and technology band aids for the last 10 years.

They are reliable and hold their value, but there is 0 innovation in a new 4Runner, Tacoma or Tundra. I’m not saying they are bad vehicles, I have a late model 4Runner, but aside from the Bluetooth and backup camera, I might as well be driving a 2004 4Runner, and my F150 gets better mileage with a smaller engine and makes 40% more power.

Make sure you're not confusing innovation with engineering the part to the lowest possible quality that actually works (for awhile).

 

[BingerFang]

Don't buy the F-150 Ecoboost. It's too fast. Cop put mine on the tow truck yesterday, sending it to holding compound for 7 days, after me beating a Chebby on the highway. Pisses me off that I had may Passport 9500 in the glove compartment. He was cool, didn't loose my driving lic, so I'm off to the racetrack in my Miata today
Worst part is, my wife called me an idiot and probably won't talk to me for a few days.
I'll be sticking to drive racecars fast for now on. This one is ready for this week. along the Radical

How fast did he get you for?

 

[ArizonaKevin]

You are confusing reliability with lack of innovation

The Toyota truck platforms, 4runner included are a decade or more behind the technology curve.

The engines get horrible mileage for their power output, the transmissions are archaic. The chassis are approaching 2 decades old. They have just been doing face lifts and technology band aids for the last 10 years.

They are reliable and hold their value, but there is 0 innovation in a new 4Runner, Tacoma or Tundra. I’m not saying they are bad vehicles, I have a late model 4Runner, but aside from the Bluetooth and backup camera, I might as well be driving a 2004 4Runner, and my F150 gets better mileage with a smaller engine and makes 40% more power.

I agree with you that recently their innovation has been shit. But back in 07 when the current gen tundra came out, IMO it was at the top of the class and not even close.

Tacoma has always pretty much been in a class of it's own, but 4Runners are a competitive class and when the current gen chassis came out in 03 it was innovative and competitive.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Make sure you're not confusing innovation with engineering the part to the lowest possible quality that actually works (for awhile).

I'm not.... The Camry has has 4 full redesigns in the same time period we are talking about. Toyota is perfectly capable of making these cars better, They just don't because they have not lost market share, or enough to warrant redoing the vehicles, or in the case of the Tundra, they just don't care

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I agree with you that recently their innovation has been shit. But back in 07 when the current gen tundra came out, IMO it was at the top of the class and not even close.

Tacoma has always pretty much been in a class of it's own, but 4Runners are a competitive class and when the current gen chassis came out in 03 it was innovative and competitive.

Yea in the early-mid 2000s they were great. Not so much today. Again I like my 4Runner, but it is basically an 04 4Runner in a different wrapper.

 

[HTMike]

21' Ram 1500 4x4 Limited with the Ecodiesel. Pulls AWESOME and I average 30-32 mpg. Also comes with a 100k factory powertrain warranty.

 

[YeahYeah01]

I have owned many trucks, at least 10 SUV's, etc. Newer trucks cannot be compared to anything built before 2015, they have advanced so fast. That said, I would never buy a GM truck again, and here is why.
Last two had great engines and transmissions, that is about it. GM has this habit for short term component design.

My experience;
1990 1500, steering column fell apart at 20K, water pump at 400 miles, paint began to flak clear coat ay 2 years old. Alternator froze up at 50K miles, and that is very common.

Mid 2000 model, paint began to peel off in sheets, I know most everyone has seen this. Thin body panels dent way too easily, AC controls go out every year. I could go on.

Owned two Ford SD250, I liked them, the 2016 was incredible truck insane torque. Now I do not need that heavy towing, like many. So the RAM 1500 diesel.

Only one downside like many turbos, when taking off from start, it is a bit slow until it spools up, take 3-5 seconds. Just a minor adjustment. Towing up the Cajon Pass with a 6K load, kept it at 2,200 RPM, towed at 65, not sweating. Towed at 115 degrees with AC on, engine got to 226 for a second, then back to 217 or less, great gauges, info systems are second to none, and the 12" screen. All with great AC and ventilated seats.

As as noted, unless you slam it to 80, normal towing speeds yield great MPG. If you can get it, the optional 33 gallon tank gets up to 800 miles on a tank of fuel empty. They have 3 rear end ratios on all 1500's, 3.23, 3.55, and 3.90. If you tow a heavy load, go with 3,42 or 3.90. I choose 3.23, with many trans gears, no issues as I never two more than 6K, and get top MPG when not towing.

Lol that initial lag on my eco diesel takes some getting used to.

 

[Ballyhoo]

2014 Ford F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost, 2wd - 166K trouble free miles. The paint and interior are still perfect, no interior parts constantly falling off like my last Chevy. When ready, I will buy another 3.5 F150 Ecoboost.

 

[pronstar]

I'm not.... The Camry has has 4 full redesigns in the same time period we are talking about. Toyota is perfectly capable of making these cars better, They just don't because they have not lost market share, or enough to warrant redoing the vehicles, or in the case of the Tundra, they just don't care

Oh they care…primarily about making money. To the tune of $9B last quarter [emoji15]
No other carmaker comes close…they’d be lucky to make that much in a year.

Making these vehicles over time accomplishes two things:
1. reliability/kaizen as mentioned above
2. Maximizes profits. Development and tooling costs get paid off in the early years, so the latter vehicles are just gravy.

Of course, innovation goes out the window. But that’s never been a strong suit for either Toyota or Lexus.

The third big benefit is one you touched on, but it doesn’t put money in Toyota’s pockets:
Resale value / high demand on the used market


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[LargeOrangeFont]

Oh they care…primarily about making money. To the tune of $9B last quarter [emoji15]
No other carmaker comes close…they’d be lucky to make that much in a year.

Making these vehicles over time accomplishes two things:
1. reliability/kaizen as mentioned above
2. Maximizes profits. Development and tooling costs get paid off in the early years, so the latter vehicles are just gravy.

Of course, innovation goes out the window. But that’s never been a strong suit for either Toyota or Lexus.

The third big benefit is one you touched on, but it doesn’t put money in Toyota’s pockets:
Resale value / high demand on the used market


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Correct on all counts. If there is no business need for them to redesign the car, why would they. I think they have given up trying to lead or contend for the lead in the light truck segment though.

 

[pronstar]

Correct on all counts. If there is no business need for them to redesign the car, why would they. I think they have given up trying to lead or contend for the lead in the light truck segment though.

It seems Toyota plans very long life cycles for their body-on -frame trucks.

Honestly I wish the domestics went back to longer product cycles…would help with reliability IMHO

Carmakers used to produce OBS trucks for a very long time before they made changes…these trucks were generally more reliable than newer domestics, methinks


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[rivermobster]

I'm not.... The Camry has has 4 full redesigns in the same time period we are talking about. Toyota is perfectly capable of making these cars better, They just don't because they have not lost market share, or enough to warrant redoing the vehicles, or in the case of the Tundra, they just don't care

You spelled General Motors wrong.

 

[69 1/2]

Keep it american

Aren’t 100% of the Chevy crew cab half tons made in Mexico still?

 

[rivermobster]

My opinions below

Most proven package: Tundra (shit it better be with a 16 year old design)

Best interior: Ram, although the '21 fords are now making a push at the interior throne. Chevy and toyota are way behind here IMO

Best engine: Tough one, ecoboost and powerboost are no doubt powerhouses, unfortunately myself and 2 of my friends have had overheating issues pulling heavy loads, myself and 1 of my friends have also had boost issues. They also suck down fuel whenever you are making boost. 5.7 hemi and 5.7 toyota are definitely proven, not as much outright power as other options. I'd probably give the title 6.2 chevy for gasser, and probably 3.0 duramax for the half ton diesel crowd.

Best chassis: Probably give the title to Ford here, highest towing and payload numbers means they are doing something right, although they are all pretty close. Air suspension on the ram is a nice touch

Transmission: Chevy and ford 10 speed are exactly the same hardware, but differ in the tuning. I feel like the Chevy has the upper hand on tuning, probably an easier tuning job not having to deal with turbo lag and as much torque limiting in the lower gears. 8 speed ZF in the ram is put in a myriad of different vehicles the world over, butter smooth shifts and seems to be reliable and virtually the same ratio spread as the 10 speeds. I'd put it as a true toss up here between the Chevy 10 and the Ram 8.

Overall if I had to pick a truck tomorrow, it would probably be the ram Laramie with a 5.7, the nice interior with the big screen and cooled seats and the offroad group to get the rear locker and skid plates. That being said, I am eagerly waiting more details on the new tundra. I am okay with the styling, think it will look really nice with some slightly bigger tires. Hoping their engineers have figured out the smaller boosted v6 world. People seem to love that engine in the lexus LC500.

And this right here is why you don't buy a half ton truck to tow...

They were Never designed for it! Oh sure, the numbers say you can, but that's mostly for advertising, flat roads and fair weather.

They were not designed from the ground up to tow. Not enough cooling and not enough endurance.

Again, friends don't let friend buy half tons!

 

[Cobalt232]

Keep it american

The 4 door Silverado's are made in Mexico.

We just got rid of our 2009 F-250 diesel and got a 2021 Silverado Trail Boss with the 6.2. The money light came on in the F-250 and it went into limp mode while the wife had it in the desert, so we decided to get something else. Pretty sure the High-Pressure fuel pump was going bad and that is a cab-off repair. Not much available out there, but we found this. I like the way it looks better than the F-150 and RAM. It seems to tow fine although I've only towed with it twice just to the launch ramp. The interior is a bit cheap though. Supposedly they are getting a new interior next year. I have noticed that it does wander a bit on the highway and is much more susceptible to wind than the F-250 was.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It seems Toyota plans very long life cycles for their body-on -frame trucks.

Honestly I wish the domestics went back to longer product cycles…would help with reliability IMHO

Carmakers used to produce OBS trucks for a very long time before they made changes…these trucks were generally more reliable than newer domestics, methinks


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Well cars are turning into phones. Newest features, higher prices, leases or ownership cycles that revolve every 3 years.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The 4 door Silverado's are made in Mexico.

We just got rid of our 2009 F-250 diesel and got a 2021 Silverado Trail Boss with the 6.2. The money light came on in the F-250 and it went into limp mode while the wife had it in the desert, so we decided to get something else. Pretty sure the High-Pressure fuel pump was going bad and that is a cab-off repair. Not much available out there, but we found this. I like the way it looks better than the F-150 and RAM. It seems to tow fine although I've only towed with it twice just to the launch ramp. The interior is a bit cheap though. Supposedly they are getting a new interior next year. I have noticed that it does wander a bit on the highway and is much more susceptible to wind than the F-250 was.
View attachment 1035618

Didn’t you read the post above yours? 1/2 tons were never meant to tow .

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Well my Silverado 1500 is still in the shop for a bad transmission. 34 days now. So I would say stay away from Chevy. Mine will be dumped for an F150 after the chip shortage settles down.

What year is your truck?

 

[pronstar]

Aren’t 100% of the Chevy crew cab half tons made in Mexico still?

Mine was made in Indiana [emoji106]

Not really relevant, but our Suburban was built just a few miles from my house, at the Arlington plant…I feel good about that [emoji106]


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[pronstar]

Well cars are turning into phones. Newest features, higher prices, leases or ownership cycles that revolve every 3 years.

Keeps the used inventory humming along for cheapskates like me who don’t buy new [emoji4]


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[Long Way Home]

For a 1/2 ton Texas truck I would take a Toyota Tundra, but I have had two with no problems.

 

[FreeBird236]

I'm not.... The Camry has has 4 full redesigns in the same time period we are talking about. Toyota is perfectly capable of making these cars better, They just don't because they have not lost market share, or enough to warrant redoing the vehicles, or in the case of the Tundra, they just don't care

As the owner of an 07 Tundra I'll agree that it's been a little frustrating to wait this long for an upgrade, just not sure I agree on how far it's been surpassed as it relates to daily use. I know the specs are better, but just wonder about durability and if they really get the mileage claimed. Small engines seem to be okay for passenger cars, I'm just a little leery when it comes to towing.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

As the owner of an 07 Tundra I'll agree that it's been a little frustrating to wait this long for an upgrade, just not sure I agree on how far it's been surpassed as it relates to daily use. I know the specs are better, but just wonder about durability and if they really get the mileage claimed. Small engines seem to be okay for passenger cars, I'm just a little leery when it comes to towing.

Towing and mileage really shouldn’t be in the same sentence.

An NA V8 will do fine, it just won’t have the power of the smaller turbo V6s when towing.

My turbo V6 Ford gets the claimed mileage below 80 on 91 fuel. I will get between 18-19 MPG at 80 on the way to the river with no wind. It will get mid 20s at 65.

 

[FreeBird236]

Towing and mileage really shouldn’t be in the same sentence.

An NA V8 will do fine, it just won’t have the power of the smaller turbo V6s when towing.

My turbo V6 Ford gets the claimed mileage below 80 on 91 fuel. I will get between 18-19 MPG at 80 on the way to the river with no wind. It will get mid 20s at 65.

Is that last sentence while towing?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Is that last sentence while towing?

No it gets 11-12 while towing.

 

[humvkev]

I have the 2019 Sierra with the 6.2 and have had no problems since day one, lacking a decent size fuel tank though. Cant get anywhere from OC to anywhere while towing on a single tank...

 

[FreeBird236]

No it gets 11-12 while towing.

Both are quite respectable. I think the Tundra mileage basically sucks around town, 12-14, However I easily get 17 to 18 @75 with no wind with 87 fuel on the hwy. I never drive 65 but did get 23 from Victorville to Havasu following a friend in a U-haul @ 50-55 and it's mostly down hill. I actually only towed my boat from Eliminator to Havasu in 08, think I got around 9mpg, never check it to the ramp.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Both are quite respectable. I think the Tundra mileage basically sucks around town, 12-14, However I easily get 17 to 18 @75 with no wind with 87 fuel on the hwy. I never drive 65 but did get 23 from Victorville to Havasu following a friend in a U-haul @ 50-55 and it's mostly down hill. I actually only towed my boat from Eliminator to Havasu in 08, think I got around 9mpg, never check it to the ramp.

I notice about a 3 MPG increase at 80 going from 87 to 91. It seems a bigger delta at lower speeds as well but I go 75-80 everywhere.

 

[mash on it]

No it gets 11-12 while towing.

Impressive numbers.
How heavy and what do you tow?

Thanks

Dan'l

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Impressive numbers.
How heavy and what do you tow?

Thanks

Dan'l

18’ enclosed trailer with a car and all my stuff in it. Probably around 7500 lbs total. It could be closer to 8000. Trailer is 7.5’ ceiling and not light.

My 1/2 ton that is not built for towing makes quick work of it.

 

[Xring01]

This video pretty much sums up the conversation. Debate is over

 

[Xring01]

This gets right to point about the Chevy Coloraydo.

 

[HTMike]

Lol that initial lag on my eco diesel takes some getting used to.

Go in for the tune update. My 21 has zero lag and instant power.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Go in for the tune update. My 21 has zero lag and instant power.

I'll have to look into that. I had similar issues with my 2016 and now the 2018.

I did notice though, it might not be a turbo lag. It seems that sometime the tranny doesn't down shift fast enough so when you roll up to stop but not for long or a right slow turn that it's on 3rd or 2nd gear still. So then it down shifts and you take off. Feels a lot like turbo lag but I'm not so sure any more

 

[CarolynandBob]

What year is your truck?

2019 New body style

 

[CarolynandBob]

Every brand has issues. So when you get the Ford and it has an issue will you dump it for a Ram or Toyota?

This is the 1st new chevy I have had. Bought it because I could get the employee pricing. Have had I think 5 new 150's and 1 F350. Had computer problems in the 350 that they fixed. Never had a problem on any of the F150's. Yes I could have a problem with a new, but maybe not.

What pisses me off it that they won't put a new trans in. 25 bad parts they are replacing, but said it is cheaper to replace them than a new trans.

I am a little weird as far as vehicles go. Normally keep them 3 years or less. If one breaks down and leaves me on the side of the road twice it is gone. When I worked and the miles I drove were pretty consistent I leased and loved it. Now I drive too much for a lease as we only have 1 vehicle.

 

[boatpi]

My 20 RAM diesel shifts perfect, is is the slightly longer than what I would expect turbo lag when accelerating from a stop. Hard to imagine just a few years ago a pick up would be so comfortable and get 30 MPG and in the 20's towing a decent load. RT to the Inland Empire towing on one tank (26), and the HB non towing is no issue from Las Vegas.