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Best Option to Sell Car in California *won't pass smog*

lbhsbz

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The messed up part is the 49 and 50 state cats are the same loading. All cats are high load and high flow. Not like the old days when there were many different substrates and load levels.
not really
 

pronstar

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I thought CA cats had more rhodium?
Might have been a long time ago, but I seem to recall reading this?


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lbhsbz

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I thought CA cats had more rhodium?
Might have been a long time ago, but I seem to recall reading this?


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CA cats have to meet higher efficiency standards than Federal units. Some are the same, some are different. Fed cats won't work on CA cars...CA cats will work on Fed cars. The blanket statements made here are fucking stupid.

There are 2 sure ways to make this car legal again....get an illegal smog or fix the car properly. Hoping for a smog tech that doesn't do his job is a shot in the dark...could work, but might not. If it doesn't, you get classified as a gross polluter or flagged for tampering ($30Kish fine) and need to go see a referee...and have to fix it right anyway.

Why not just fix it right? I'm sometimes amazed how some prioritize their spending.
 

Bigbore500r

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CA cats have to meet higher efficiency standards than Federal units. Some are the same, some are different. Fed cats won't work on CA cars...CA cats will work on Fed cars. The blanket statements made here are fucking stupid.

There are 2 sure ways to make this car legal again....get an illegal smog or fix the car properly. Hoping for a smog tech that doesn't do his job is a shot in the dark...could work, but might not. If it doesn't, you get classified as a gross polluter or flagged for tampering ($30Kish fine) and need to go see a referee...and have to fix it right anyway.

Why not just fix it right? I'm sometimes amazed how some prioritize their spending.
If 49 state cats are good enough to satisfy the down stream O2 sensors and eliminate the code, and the state of CA trusts OBDII scanning as the sole test for 2000+ smog enforcement, I would think that’s a smart move to save a considerable sum of money. I would also consider that fixing it right, but not pandering to the state of CA’s bullshit cash grab - oops I mean CARB.

Just don’t be dumb about it and take it to a station that is super anal. It’s not a Ferrari, it’s a 11 year old Honda that burns oil and needs a few more years on the road
 

rush1

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There not that much money for a California legal cat ,if you like the car it's worth fixing
 

lbhsbz

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If 49 state cats are good enough to satisfy the down stream O2 sensors and eliminate the code, and the state of CA trusts OBDII scanning as the sole test for 2000+ smog enforcement, I would think that’s a smart move to save a considerable sum of money. I would also consider that fixing it right, but not pandering to the state of CA’s bullshit cash grab - oops I mean CARB.

Just don’t be dumb about it and take it to a station that is super anal. It’s not a Ferrari, it’s a 11 year old Honda that burns oil and needs a few more years on the road

CA vehicles have different cat monitor standards...a 49 (or 48, because NY has jumped on the bandwagon) cat will not satisfy the monitors on a CA calibrated vehicle....which is the sole reason we have CA cats.
 

lbhsbz

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If 49 state cats are good enough to satisfy the down stream O2 sensors and eliminate the code, and the state of CA trusts OBDII scanning as the sole test for 2000+ smog enforcement, I would think that’s a smart move to save a considerable sum of money. I would also consider that fixing it right, but not pandering to the state of CA’s bullshit cash grab - oops I mean CARB.

Just don’t be dumb about it and take it to a station that is super anal. It’s not a Ferrari, it’s a 11 year old Honda that burns oil and needs a few more years on the road

They're not. Again...CA has better standards than most states....and if you have any experience with the old "universal" cats you could buy for $50, you'd understand why. They're garbage and don't work. We're not dealing with mid '90s shitboxes here....we're dealing with relatively refined systems that operate as a system...
 

Bigbore500r

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They're not. Again...CA has better standards than most states....and if you have any experience with the old "universal" cats you could buy for $50, you'd understand why. They're garbage and don't work. We're not dealing with mid '90s shitboxes here....we're dealing with relatively refined systems that operate as a system...
I have a little experience.....worked for Kenne Bell and designed a few supercharger kits that went thru the CARB certification process.
I’m not taking about $50 junk cats, I’m taking about quality replacement cats that aren’t stamped for CA use

Most automakers don’t have a “CA only” calibration anymore. I can tell you with certainty GM does not, and has not, in 20+ years
 

Runs2rch

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CA cats have to meet higher efficiency standards than Federal units. Some are the same, some are different. Fed cats won't work on CA cars...CA cats will work on Fed cars. The blanket statements made here are fucking stupid.

There are 2 sure ways to make this car legal again....get an illegal smog or fix the car properly. Hoping for a smog tech that doesn't do his job is a shot in the dark...could work, but might not. If it doesn't, you get classified as a gross polluter or flagged for tampering ($30Kish fine) and need to go see a referee...and have to fix it right anyway.

Why not just fix it right? I'm sometimes amazed how some prioritize their spending.

CA has their own EPA requirements to make money. Think CARB. Worked at a converter manufacturing plant. They didn't manufacturer different substrates for the 49 and 50 state parts. No one here is disagreeing with fixing it right. Maybe OP doesn't have the extra money. We don't know his financial situation.
 

Runs2rch

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I have a little experience.....worked for Kenne Bell and designed a few supercharger kits that went thru the CARB certification process.
I’m not taking about $50 junk cats, I’m taking about quality replacement cats that aren’t stamped for CA use

Most automakers don’t have a “CA only” calibration anymore. I can tell you with certainty GM does not, and has not, in 20+ years

Exactly. CA emissions used to be an extra on vehicles.
 

Rondog4405

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wrong buyer can get it repaired and stick seller for the bill in ca.Dont think selling as is is good enough if a buyer is an ass.
People do it all day long. You just make it clear.. Its sold as is with nothing promised.. Done it a few times now.. Do what u want though...
 

Bigbore500r

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There not that much money for a California legal cat ,if you like the car it's worth fixing
The CA legal CARB cats I posted from Rock Auto are a good deal for sure. Under $600 for the pair
 

gqchris

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Two ways, register it in Havasu and keep it that way or find a dirty smog tech. They are not hard to find. Will cost you about 500$. Troll over to the custom car forums they usually will point you where to look.
 

Bear Down

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The CA legal CARB cats I posted from Rock Auto are a good deal for sure. Under $600 for the pair
Since they are bolt ons, I think I may go this route and avoid any headaches or be at the mercy of the shop.... my only concern was putting to much $ into a 10 year old car.. but since it runs great and potentially can get another 4 years out of it, itll be worth spending the $600 ish on it. I was going off costs from 2+ years ago and things have definitely changed as far as options. Plus with an 18 year old under my insurance policy, having her as a primary driver for the Honda helps with dumbing down the costs which I also need to factor in.

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Bear Down

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If you were a real Mexican you would've removed the cats and sold them for precious metal scrap value...
I didn't want to dirty the leather seats in my honda....

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beaverretriever

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Bad Cat? Heard he was wanted in three states for barfing on carpet and tearing up a leather chair. One bad mutha F#$^*!


61mAItQm95L._AC_SX425_.jpg
 

rrrr

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Since they are bolt ons, I think I may go this route and avoid any headaches or be at the mercy of the shop.... my only concern was putting to much $ into a 10 year old car.. but since it runs great and potentially can get another 4 years out of it, itll be worth spending the $600 ish on it. I was going off costs from 2+ years ago and things have definitely changed as far as options. Plus with an 18 year old under my insurance policy, having her as a primary driver for the Honda helps with dumbing down the costs which I also need to factor in.

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A single payment on the average new car will be more than $600. That car can go another 100,000 miles without major repairs, except perhaps for the oil burn issue. Why is it using oil?
 

ka0tyk

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Since they are bolt ons, I think I may go this route and avoid any headaches or be at the mercy of the shop.... my only concern was putting to much $ into a 10 year old car.. but since it runs great and potentially can get another 4 years out of it, itll be worth spending the $600 ish on it. I was going off costs from 2+ years ago and things have definitely changed as far as options. Plus with an 18 year old under my insurance policy, having her as a primary driver for the Honda helps with dumbing down the costs which I also need to factor in.

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if you want to squeeze 4 years out of it, you'll need to do 2 smogs. if you toss $200 at a "pass you smog" place, thats $400. For a little more you couldve just fix it the right way and have a sellable vehicle later on. Its buyers responsibility to provide a smog cert within 90 days of selling the vehicle... if they dont and buyer repairs the vehicle they can recover those costs from the seller. "AS-IS" doesnt mean sh%t in california anymore. its either a functioning vehicle adhereing to current law, or it should be in a junk pile.
 

Bear Down

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A single payment on the average new car will be more than $600. That car can go another 100,000 miles without major repairs, except perhaps for the oil burn issue. Why is it using oil?
The oil consumption issue has been repaired by honda (2016) at 100k miles. It was covered by them for a known issues on v6 accords for this generation of model. Honda wouldn't admit that the issue led to CAT failure because of it so I am stuck with fixing it. The dealership redid the rings on the motor and was covered by Honda USA..

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Bear Down

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if you want to squeeze 4 years out of it, you'll need to do 2 smogs. if you toss $200 at a "pass you smog" place, thats $400. For a little more you couldve just fix it the right way and have a sellable vehicle later on. Its buyers responsibility to provide a smog cert within 90 days of selling the vehicle... if they dont and buyer repairs the vehicle they can recover those costs from the seller. "AS-IS" doesnt mean sh%t in california anymore. its either a functioning vehicle adhereing to current law, or it should be in a junk pile.
Yup! That's is exactly why I am probably leaning towards having it fixed and made legal... this car has tons of miles left, I just wanted to see my options, and this thread helped me see that it was less expensive than I thought originally

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motormonkey

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I chucked a universal rockauto cat on a car and they never looked at it. Had to pass sniffer with a carb era car with factory cats. Passed.
 

Cobalt232

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Take it to a Mexican mechanic. Tell him what the deal is and have him put new cats on it, then have HIM have it smogged. He will take it to the guy who does all of his smogs and it will pass.

We did this with my son's RX-7 and it worked fine.

Edit, almost forgot. Did the same on a MBZ ML-320. All 4 cats dislodged their guts until it wouldn't run. Had it towed to the MBZ dealer. After hearing how much they wanted (I think over 6k) I rented a U-Haul car carrier and dropped it off at a sketchy repair place and had it fixed for under 2k
 

Big B Hova

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I've never seen a smog shop crawl under any of my cars and check the numbers on the cats to see if they are 50 state legal. They just glance to make sure they are there.

All they care about is check engine light and visual inspection to see if the motor looks stock.

MY scion Check engine light would go on and off every 500 miles. As soon as it went off it went into the smog shop.
 

aka619er

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Sell it to someone in a city like Yuma, AZ where I live that has no smog requirements.
 

Flying_Lavey

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I have a little experience.....worked for Kenne Bell and designed a few supercharger kits that went thru the CARB certification process.
I’m not taking about $50 junk cats, I’m taking about quality replacement cats that aren’t stamped for CA use

Most automakers don’t have a “CA only” calibration anymore. I can tell you with certainty GM does not, and has not, in 20+ years
Is this true for a 2001 Silverado? I have been getting the P0420 and P0430 codes and replaced the O2 sensors since I replaced them a few years ago with off brand sensors (put Densos in now) and still have the codes after resetting them so I figured I'd buy a $200 Y pipe off Amazon and should be good.

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colenighthawk

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Reset the check engine light, then go sell it to Carmax. Easy peasy
 

575cat

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Is this true for a 2001 Silverado? I have been getting the P0420 and P0430 codes and replaced the O2 sensors since I replaced them a few years ago with off brand sensors (put Densos in now) and still have the codes after resetting them so I figured I'd buy a $200 Y pipe off Amazon and should be good.

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Your going to need high grade cats not no cheapies .
 

Bigbore500r

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Is this true for a 2001 Silverado? I have been getting the P0420 and P0430 codes and replaced the O2 sensors since I replaced them a few years ago with off brand sensors (put Densos in now) and still have the codes after resetting them so I figured I'd buy a $200 Y pipe off Amazon and should be good.

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Any replacement Y-pipe / Cat assembly from a decent MFG should do the trick. I'd look for a quality set from Rock Auto. Its not black magic. Here's what's happening that makes the computer set the code:
  • Computer looks for voltage change between 02 Sensor 1 (pre cat) and O2 sensor 2 (post cat). If Sensor 2 is mirroring Sensor 1 during period of power enrichment or rich AFR swings, it will set P0420 / P0430 as it sees that the Cat is not doing its job. It takes multiple occurences over time to make this happen and set the code.
One thing you should check for - exhaust leaks can cause this to happen also, although it's unlikely with the way your Silverado cat and sensors are positioned.

Believe it or not, I had a 2001 silverado start throwing those codes after I installed a flowmaster , and we had got rid of the over-axle portion of the exhaust (we installed a turn-down). I put the over-axle portion of the exhaust pipe back on, and the codes went away! My only thought is the loss of backpressure somehow contributed to the catalytic efficiency dropping slightly, and it was probably operating marigal to begin with (truck had 150k on it).

Fun stuff!
 

Flying_Lavey

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Any replacement Y-pipe / Cat assembly from a decent MFG should do the trick. I'd look for a quality set from Rock Auto. Its not black magic. Here's what's happening that makes the computer set the code:
  • Computer looks for voltage change between 02 Sensor 1 (pre cat) and O2 sensor 2 (post cat). If Sensor 2 is mirroring Sensor 1 during period of power enrichment or rich AFR swings, it will set P0420 / P0430 as it sees that the Cat is not doing its job. It takes multiple occurences over time to make this happen and set the code.
One thing you should check for - exhaust leaks can cause this to happen also, although it's unlikely with the way your Silverado cat and sensors are positioned.

Believe it or not, I had a 2001 silverado start throwing those codes after I installed a flowmaster , and we had got rid of the over-axle portion of the exhaust (we installed a turn-down). I put the over-axle portion of the exhaust pipe back on, and the codes went away! My only thought is the loss of backpressure somehow contributed to the catalytic efficiency dropping slightly, and it was probably operating marigal to begin with (truck had 150k on it).

Fun stuff!
Gotcha. You think any possibility of replacing the front sensors could do it since I've never replaced them (will do so either way) and it's got 190k+ on the clock? I just hate throwing money at the damn thing hoping it'll fix it.

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Bigbore500r

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Gotcha. You think any possibility of replacing the front sensors could do it since I've never replaced them (will do so either way) and it's got 190k+ on the clock? I just hate throwing money at the damn thing hoping it'll fix it.

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It will probably make it run better, but may not fix your issue. The right thing to do would be to have somebody with a quality scanner log it and see if the 02 sensors are lazy, or if they are switching like normal and reporting within the expected ranges during closed loop. If they are, they're not bad.
 

TGIBFTGOG

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217K miles, slipping trans, bad head gasket (oil in radiator), broken exhaust manifold, and leaking water pump. Since it failed smog and car still ran and drove, the state CARB program gave me $1000. Pic before it went to the shredder.
IMG_20191227_092943.jpg
IMG_20191227_093014.jpg
IMG_20191227_093014.jpg
 

dribble

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Gotcha. You think any possibility of replacing the front sensors could do it since I've never replaced them (will do so either way) and it's got 190k+ on the clock? I just hate throwing money at the damn thing hoping it'll fix it.

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I doubt it. The light is triggered by the rear sensors which are doing their job. The post you’re responding to is spot on.
 

SBMech

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The amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering.

It's 2020. Fines from the BAR start at 5k PER incidence and escalate to 50k. No one who makes a living doing smogs on vehicles in CA would risk it anymore, unless they are an illegal and can run to mexico to fix shit down there if they get fucked.

CA has much higher standards than most of the other 50 states, and manufacturers have been making all their vehicles except for fleet to CA standards, because there are 13 states that have adopted CA's stupid tree hugging standard.

You WILL need cats that are CARB approved. Bolt in is better than weld in, because the tech WILL LOOK at weld in's, most will pass over bolt in's unless there are codes.

If you were my client, I would have fought like a mother fucker to get your cats replaced from oil fouling by the local dealer by escalating it to Honda Corporate.

The rear sensor does not mirror the front, it is half of the switching as the front, but they do need to stay in sync as far as amplitude to see the cat working properly.

A rear sensor issue will show as a bad cat, if your cats are oil fouled that can potentially be cleaned, but I am not familiar with the process or the chemicals involved.

I am assuming you have had a qualified tech look at your issues? the dealerships are not real trust worthy. Maybe get a second opinion?

You can trouble shoot them yourself with an infrared thermometer, the outlet to the cat has to be a minimum of 250* hotter than the inlet if the cat is working....

Run it on the freeway for 15 minutes at 70ish. Pull over and shoot the cat inlet and outlet.
 

pronstar

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Bolt in is better than weld in, because the tech WILL LOOK at weld in's, most will pass over bolt in's unless there are codes.

What do you attribute this to?


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SBMech

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What do you attribute this to?


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All factory replacements are bolt in, most aftermarket are weld-in. Smog techs are like everyone else, some try to cut corners as reasonably as possible, weld in's are a flag that they need to match the EO# however, it's required of them to not only see if it's a CA legal cat, but that it's actually made for that application.

The BAR is not stupid, they monitor each station's results and have a database with algorithms to see what percentages are failed through out the state. If you pass too many, or fail too many, you can be sure they will be sending a mule through.

The shop next to me that I rent from is a smog station, test and repair, The tech is a good friend and we are constantly discussing diagnosis, and laughing about attempted repairs, both by owners and other shops....
 

dribble

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The amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering.

It's 2020. Fines from the BAR start at 5k PER incidence and escalate to 50k. No one who makes a living doing smogs on vehicles in CA would risk it anymore, unless they are an illegal and can run to mexico to fix shit down there if they get fucked.

CA has much higher standards than most of the other 50 states, and manufacturers have been making all their vehicles except for fleet to CA standards, because there are 13 states that have adopted CA's stupid tree hugging standard.

Actually fines start at $500.00 and that would be the likely penalty for someone who just got lazy and didn’t look for the EO number on the cat. Believe it or not there are and always were quite a few people doing smogs who are willing to risk it for money. BAR doesn’t typically hit those people with fines,. They do a complete investigation and catch them doing several cars, then charge them criminally with felony perjury. They always lose their license. I once got a smog guy charged with 17 felony counts for clean piping 17 vin and license numbers on cars I had locked in a warehouse. Turns out he was a registered sex offender so the DA threw the book at him.

What’s interesting is that the California standards are not much different from the other states. They are there primarily to keep CARB in power.
 

SBMech

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Actually fines start at $500.00 and that would be the likely penalty for someone who just got lazy and didn’t look for the EO number on the cat. Believe it or not there are and always were quite a few people doing smogs who are willing to risk it for money. BAR doesn’t typically hit those people with fines,. They do a complete investigation and catch them doing several cars, then charge them criminally with felony perjury. They always lose their license. I once got a smog guy charged with 17 felony counts for clean piping 17 vin and license numbers on cars I had locked in a warehouse. Turns out he was a registered sex offender so the DA threw the book at him.

What’s interesting is that the California standards are not much different from the other states. They are there primarily to keep CARB in power.

Fines for stupid shit like not having a signed repair order before doing work is $500 to start. They have become much more aggressive with cheating smog techs.

Are you still working for BAR?

It's all subjective to the intent, some of these guys they catch are doing multiple black smogs daily.

But it's so easy now to get a license, especially a test only for the 96+, all you need is the OBD2 tester that is completely owned and managed by the state now, as well as the gas analyzer 96 and down machine. It's pretty fucked up, the new equipment is total garbage, and it's a pure lease now.
 

HALLETT BOY

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The amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering.

It's 2020. Fines from the BAR start at 5k PER incidence and escalate to 50k. No one who makes a living doing smogs on vehicles in CA would risk it anymore, unless they are an illegal and can run to mexico to fix shit down there if they get fucked.

CA has much higher standards than most of the other 50 states, and manufacturers have been making all their vehicles except for fleet to CA standards, because there are 13 states that have adopted CA's stupid tree hugging standard.

You WILL need cats that are CARB approved. Bolt in is better than weld in, because the tech WILL LOOK at weld in's, most will pass over bolt in's unless there are codes.

If you were my client, I would have fought like a mother fucker to get your cats replaced from oil fouling by the local dealer by escalating it to Honda Corporate.

The rear sensor does not mirror the front, it is half of the switching as the front, but they do need to stay in sync as far as amplitude to see the cat working properly.

A rear sensor issue will show as a bad cat, if your cats are oil fouled that can potentially be cleaned, but I am not familiar with the process or the chemicals involved.

I am assuming you have had a qualified tech look at your issues? the dealerships are not real trust worthy. Maybe get a second opinion?

You can trouble shoot them yourself with an infrared thermometer, the outlet to the cat has to be a minimum of 250* hotter than the inlet if the cat is working....

Run it on the freeway for 15 minutes at 70ish. Pull over and shoot the cat inlet and outlet.
Finally, some common sense !
 
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