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dribble

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The amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering.

It's 2020. Fines from the BAR start at 5k PER incidence and escalate to 50k. No one who makes a living doing smogs on vehicles in CA would risk it anymore, unless they are an illegal and can run to mexico to fix shit down there if they get fucked.

CA has much higher standards than most of the other 50 states, and manufacturers have been making all their vehicles except for fleet to CA standards, because there are 13 states that have adopted CA's stupid tree hugging standard.

Actually fines start at $500.00 and that would be the likely penalty for someone who just got lazy and didn’t look for the EO number on the cat. Believe it or not there are and always were quite a few people doing smogs who are willing to risk it for money. BAR doesn’t typically hit those people with fines,. They do a complete investigation and catch them doing several cars, then charge them criminally with felony perjury. They always lose their license. I once got a smog guy charged with 17 felony counts for clean piping 17 vin and license numbers on cars I had locked in a warehouse. Turns out he was a registered sex offender

What’s interesting is that the California standards are not much different from the other states. They are there primarily to keep CARB in power.
 

dribble

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Fines for stupid shit like not having a signed repair order before doing work is $500 to start. They have become much more aggressive with cheating smog techs.

Are you still working for BAR?

It's all subjective to the intent, some of these guys they catch are doing multiple black smogs daily.

But it's so easy now to get a license, especially a test only for the 96+, all you need is the OBD2 tester that is completely owned and managed by the state now, as well as the gas analyzer 96 and down machine. It's pretty fucked up, the new equipment is total garbage, and it's a pure lease now.

OBD II testing is done on 2000 and newer. 99 and earlier get the full sniff and the evap test. I retired from BAR after 28 years three years ago. There are no administrative monetary penalties for what we called ARD violations. You get told about it and told to correct it. An action can be taken on a license but without aggravating factors (ie fraud, repeated attempts to gain compliance) no action is taken on minor violations. Keep in mind that a local prosecutor can file a civil action against a shop and get (or try to get) $2500.00 per occurrence. But as far as Bar slapping administrative penalties, they are only levied for specific Smog Check Violations. Never has a citation been for $50,000. When I was there reviewing these things in 2017, the highest fine was $2,500. You can see what shops paid in penalties on their website.
 

SBMech

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OBD II testing is done on 2000 and newer. 99 and earlier get the full sniff and the evap test. I retired from BAR after 28 years three years ago. There are no administrative monetary penalties for what we called ARD violations. You get told about it and told to correct it. An action can be taken on a license but without aggravating factors (ie fraud, repeated attempts to gain compliance) no action is taken on minor violations. Keep in mind that a local prosecutor can file a civil action against a shop and get (or try to get) $2500.00 per occurrence. But as far as Bar slapping administrative penalties, they are only levied for specific Smog Check Violations. Never has a citation been for $50,000. When I was there reviewing these things in 2017, the highest fine was $2,500. You can see what shops paid in penalties on their website.

You are incorrect. 96 and up and any OBD2 equipped vehicles use the port test only, no sniff and no evap (which is it's own test now as well). You would not have seen it if you retired in 2017, the new program came in 2018.

No single fine, cumulative stacking is where you get large amounts, yes I was pontificating and exaggerating slightly lol, if you truly worked for the testing and inspection part of the BAR, you know they do not post all fines on their "monthly letter". I have a few friends who worked as undercover mules, unless you are claiming otherwise, I'll take their statements as true.

I am still out there, repairing vehicles everyday. I see what comes through their shop and the repairs and requirements that they have to jump through hoops for.

The system is much harder to rig these days, since the state owns all the equipment and forces the shops to lease it.

BTW, setting hours of operation is a total dick move, and I hope you all get fucked in the ass by a civil suit. Complete tyranny bullshit.
 

dribble

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You are incorrect. 96 and up and any OBD2 equipped vehicles use the port test only, no sniff and no evap (which is it's own test now as well). You would not have seen it if you retired in 2017, the new program came in 2018.

No single fine, cumulative stacking is where you get large amounts, yes I was pontificating and exaggerating slightly lol, if you truly worked for the testing and inspection part of the BAR, you know they do not post all fines on their "monthly letter". I have a few friends who worked as undercover mules, unless you are claiming otherwise, I'll take their statements as true.

I am still out there, repairing vehicles everyday. I see what comes through their shop and the repairs and requirements that they have to jump through hoops for.

The system is much harder to rig these days, since the state owns all the equipment and forces the shops to lease it.

BTW, setting hours of operation is a total dick move, and I hope you all get fucked in the ass by a civil suit. Complete tyranny bullshit.

Ok I guess I have to do this. Off the BAR website:


1.3 WHAT VEHICLES MUST BE TESTED ON THE BAR-OIS?

The following vehicles, all under 14,001 GVWR, require inspection on the BAR-OIS:

2000 and newer model-year gasoline and flex fuel (methanol or ethanol) powered vehicles with OBD II
2000 and newer model-year hybrids
2000 and newer model-year dedicated propane and natural gas (CNG, LNG, or LPG) vehicles with OBD II
1998 and newer model-year diesel powered vehicles
For more information on test requirements, refer to the 2017 Smog Check Manual.

1.4 WHAT VEHICLES MUST BE TESTED ON THE BAR-97 EMISSIONS INSPECTION SYSTEM (EIS)?

The BAR-97 EIS is required for inspecting model-year 1999 and older gasoline vehicles, any model-year gasoline vehicle not equipped with OBD II, and any model-year gasoline vehicle over 14,000 GVWR.

For more information on test requirements, refer to the 2017 Smog Check Manual.

I was a senior field investigator.

Also the state not only does not own the OIS they don’t even own the software.

Every penalty for every licensee is posted on the website. This is not subject to negotiation in a settlement. You will find some penalties in the 50K range that were a result of the local DA taking a civil action (usually chain stores). Hell they got Sears for eight million as the result of our filing. Once a case is given to a DA we are just witnesses. Bar gets the cost of the investigation back which is immediately paid by us to the General Fund. The undercover operators rarely know the outcome of any investigation.

What is this setting hours of operation ? There is a regulation that says smog check stations have to be open and available to the public. That’s all it says. It says nothing about hours. That would be illegal as we can’t require people to work on their respective sabbaths. I assisted in writing the 2017 Smog Check Manual and that is the latest one. Since it’s incorporated by reference it has to through a regulatory process to change.
 
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ChumpChange

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Ok I guess I have to do this. Off the BAR website:


1.3 WHAT VEHICLES MUST BE TESTED ON THE BAR-OIS?

The following vehicles, all under 14,001 GVWR, require inspection on the BAR-OIS:

2000 and newer model-year gasoline and flex fuel (methanol or ethanol) powered vehicles with OBD II
2000 and newer model-year hybrids
2000 and newer model-year dedicated propane and natural gas (CNG, LNG, or LPG) vehicles with OBD II
1998 and newer model-year diesel powered vehicles
For more information on test requirements, refer to the 2017 Smog Check Manual.

1.4 WHAT VEHICLES MUST BE TESTED ON THE BAR-97 EMISSIONS INSPECTION SYSTEM (EIS)?

The BAR-97 EIS is required for inspecting model-year 1999 and older gasoline vehicles, any model-year gasoline vehicle not equipped with OBD II, and any model-year gasoline vehicle over 14,000 GVWR.

For more information on test requirements, refer to the 2017 Smog Check Manual.

I was a senior field investigator.

Also the state not only does not own the OIS they don’t even own the software.

Every penalty for every licensee is posted on the website. This is not subject to negotiation in a settlement. You will find some penalties in the 50K range that were a result of the local DA taking a civil action (usually chain stores). Hell they got Sears for eight million as the result of our filing. Once a case is given to a DA we are just witnesses. Bar gets the cost of the investigation back which is immediately paid by us to the General Fund. The undercover operators rarely know the outcome of any investigation.

What is this setting hours of operation ? There is a regulation that says smog check stations have to be open and available to the public. That’s all it says. It says nothing about hours. That would be illegal as we can’t require people to work on their respective sabbaths. I assisted in writing the 2017 Smog Check Manual and that is the latest one. Since it’s incorporated by reference it has to through a regulatory process to change.

If you prove him wrong he’ll just come back tomorrow morning saying he had too much to drink tonight. Same thing he did for the supercharger altitude thread.
 
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gqchris

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I know at least 5 dirty smog guys. Youre in fantasy land if you think that they are all on the straight and narrow. Lol.

The best was when I saw one pull out a ECU cloner tool. That was sweet.
 

lbhsbz

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If 49 state cats are good enough to satisfy the down stream O2 sensors and eliminate the code,

In a whole of cases...they're not. That's why we have CA specific converters that cost a bunch more, because they need to meet higher efficiency standards.

Up until 5 months ago the company I worked for manufactured catalytic converters and also enriched substrate materials (Most buy the substrate from 3M and then do their own precious metal application to the substrate)...I'd be more than happy to reach out to some of the engineers and have them chime in to this thread...
 

lbhsbz

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OBD II testing is done on 2000 and newer. 99 and earlier get the full sniff and the evap test. I retired from BAR after 28 years three years ago. There are no administrative monetary penalties for what we called ARD violations. You get told about it and told to correct it. An action can be taken on a license but without aggravating factors (ie fraud, repeated attempts to gain compliance) no action is taken on minor violations. Keep in mind that a local prosecutor can file a civil action against a shop and get (or try to get) $2500.00 per occurrence. But as far as Bar slapping administrative penalties, they are only levied for specific Smog Check Violations. Never has a citation been for $50,000. When I was there reviewing these things in 2017, the highest fine was $2,500. You can see what shops paid in penalties on their website.


Your initials don't happen to be M.M. do they?
 

lbhsbz

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my 97 got the probe in the pipe
Of course it did...thats the BAR97 test. 2000 and later get the OIS test.

I agree that the CA smog test system is a scam...and it hurts the test stations the worst...especially the ones who need to keep a BAR97 deal going at great costs with garbage unreliable equipment to maintain their STAR status.

Shops will get tired of dealing with Worldwide and the other outfit (who's name I can't think of right now) who fucks them on repairs on maint. on the BAR97 machines and the state will soon find that nobody is willing to do their stupid tests....and either join other states in excempting eariler vehicles, or develop state run smog stations for them.

I had to take my '97 Jeep to 4 different shops in order to find one to perform the smog check. 2 of them were STAR stations that said they were incapable of running of it on their dyne because it was illegal...(I knew it was not)...one of them didn't speak enough english to communicate properly so I just left...the 4th one ran it and I observed him performing a proper and thorough test. I know the BAR97 protocol....I wasn't looking for favors, I was looking for a legitimate smog check....and on the 4th try, I got one. I reported the other 3 to the BAR because they were either stuipid, lazy, or incompitent...which is fine, but if you're gonna turn away BAR97 smogs...you've gotta accept the blow to your status that comes along with that. They didn't even attempt to do it...just waved me off, which the BAR doesn't see, and what the BAR doesn't see can't affect their STAR status. Fucking crooks.
 

SBMech

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If you provide him wrong he’ll just come back tomorrow morning saying he had too much to drink tonight. Same thing he did for the supercharger altitude thread.

Really? Go ahead and show the class what the fuck you know about shit sherlock.
 

Bigbore500r

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In a whole of cases...they're not. That's why we have CA specific converters that cost a bunch more, because they need to meet higher efficiency standards.

Up until 5 months ago the company I worked for manufactured catalytic converters and also enriched substrate materials (Most buy the substrate from 3M and then do their own precious metal application to the substrate)...I'd be more than happy to reach out to some of the engineers and have them chime in to this thread...
Your picking fly shit out of pepper at this point. Let me re-iterate my position....

- A decent quality set of 49 state cats that will function properly. Im not saying go get $39 china special OBX bullet cats and weld them in.

There is no CA only calibration for OBD II 2000+ vehicles, at least GM anyways. So....if the OBDII system is satisfied, the cat did it's job
 

SBMech

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You are correct Dribble. I am wrong about the OIS testing parameters. Got the evap mixed up with the OIS test VS BAR 97.

My Apologies.
 

dribble

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I know at least 5 dirty smog guys. Youre in fantasy land if you think that they are all on the straight and narrow. Lol.

The best was when I saw one pull out a ECU cloner tool. That was sweet.

I’ve known literally dozens of dirty smog guys and seen reports or supervised cases on hundreds more.
Yeah we bought a few of those ECU clone boxes. . They can tell when one has been used now.
 
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NicPaus

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I just left the smog shop again. It's a fucking racket that new diesels need to be smogged. Truck is on its 3rd smog with less than 10k miles and will not pass cause the dmv required a recall that cleared the computer making it fail. Luckily I got in good with the kid and he went out of his way to print me what I need to do. Have to go through a series of starting cold running ac then hit 55 at half throttle slow to 20 without hitting brakes speed back up at 3/4 throttle for 5 minutes and decelerate to 20 no brakes. 2 pages of procedure. Already drove it a few hundred miles and no dice.
 

dribble

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You are correct Dribble. I am wrong about the OIS testing parameters. Got the evap mixed up with the OIS test VS BAR 97.

My Apologies.

No need to apologize. I haven’t worked as a tech since 1986. I’m sure there’s a lot you can school me on that area. We had ongoing training and kept our licenses and certifications current because they ask that in promotional interviews. But other than our shop people and working on our own cars, we lacked in hands on experience.
 

overdue

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Of course it did...thats the BAR97 test. 2000 and later get the OIS test.

I agree that the CA smog test system is a scam...and it hurts the test stations the worst...especially the ones who need to keep a BAR97 deal going at great costs with garbage unreliable equipment to maintain their STAR status.

Shops will get tired of dealing with Worldwide and the other outfit (who's name I can't think of right now) who fucks them on repairs on maint. on the BAR97 machines and the state will soon find that nobody is willing to do their stupid tests....and either join other states in excempting eariler vehicles, or develop state run smog stations for them.

I had to take my '97 Jeep to 4 different shops in order to find one to perform the smog check. 2 of them were STAR stations that said they were incapable of running of it on their dyne because it was illegal...(I knew it was not)...one of them didn't speak enough english to communicate properly so I just left...the 4th one ran it and I observed him performing a proper and thorough test. I know the BAR97 protocol....I wasn't looking for favors, I was looking for a legitimate smog check....and on the 4th try, I got one. I reported the other 3 to the BAR because they were either stuipid, lazy, or incompitent...which is fine, but if you're gonna turn away BAR97 smogs...you've gotta accept the blow to your status that comes along with that. They didn't even attempt to do it...just waved me off, which the BAR doesn't see, and what the BAR doesn't see can't affect their STAR status. Fucking crooks.
Good to know , Thank you ,,,,,, They had to do this one for me ,BAR-97 EIS can perform the two-speed idle test on vehicles that cannot be physically tested on the dynamometer.
 

boatnam2

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We had a 2003 VW Toureq,135k miles, runs like a top but every year it gets a new check engine light and wont pass smog, which is yearly. ready for pick your parts!
 

FUN4ME

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I just left the smog shop again. It's a fucking racket that new diesels need to be smogged. Truck is on its 3rd smog with less than 10k miles and will not pass cause the dmv required a recall that cleared the computer making it fail. Luckily I got in good with the kid and he went out of his way to print me what I need to do. Have to go through a series of starting cold running ac then hit 55 at half throttle slow to 20 without hitting brakes speed back up at 3/4 throttle for 5 minutes and decelerate to 20 no brakes. 2 pages of procedure. Already drove it a few hundred miles and no dice.
If you don't mind, what vehicle is this on?
 

ChumpChange

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Really? Go ahead and show the class what the fuck you know about shit sherlock.

Angry much? Here you go. Post 56. Have a nice night. https://www.riverdavesplace.com/for...house-and-after-recommendations.213122/page-2

Wow....haha man I was wasted last night! 🙃 🤪

Apparently I wanted to just argue nonsense last night with anyone who waded in...

Sorry Pro and Ntoo, I was spouting crap with the pure intent to troll last night....ended up trolling myself! o_O

Still though...Fuck Grads...😄
 

02HoWaRd26

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Had a buddy accidentally use my address on a replacement cat last year. He must not be that smart it cost an extra 18$ for me to then ship to him 🤷🏼
 

NicPaus

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Thanks I have a 2016 ram eco-diesel that had to be reflashed due to ram cheating emissions.
Wondered if that is what you were up against.
Thanks
From what they told me nothing they did with the recall would cause it to fail. Smog guy showed me on the print out twice now that they must of disconnected the batteries or reprogrammed something. It has cost me a lot of headaches and money to try and pass smog on a like new truck that should not even be up for smog let alone its 3rd.
 

Hdgasser

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I’ve known literally dozens of dirty smog guys and seen reports or supervised cases on hundreds more.
Yeah we bought a few of those ECU clone boxes. . They can tell when one has been used now.
Smog guys are always 2 steps ahead.... it's pretty amazing how smart some of these people are.
 

ChumpChange

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I don't know what your fucking problem is, how about you fuck off though? Take your hall monitor bullshit and shove it.

lol. You have some serious anger problems.

Did my comment trigger some self actualization for you or something? Realize you’re not a good person? That you don’t know everything and spout your mouth off without any true knowledge? You’re going down a path that isn’t healthy. Take care of this before it’s too late.
 

HALLETT BOY

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This thread needs a Dr Drew intervention ! Can’t we all just get along ?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Your picking fly shit out of pepper at this point. Let me re-iterate my position....

- A decent quality set of 49 state cats that will function properly. Im not saying go get $39 china special OBX bullet cats and weld them in.

There is no CA only calibration for OBD II 2000+ vehicles, at least GM anyways. So....if the OBDII system is satisfied, the cat did it's job

Agreed a 49 state cat will pass CA Smog, and unless the guy get under the car and looks at the cat no one is the wiser.

The key is to patina the new welded in cat so it does not draw attention of the smog guy looks under the car.

I had to smog my CTS-V 20 minutes before I sold it at a strange smog place. It had a non CARB intake on it and luckily he passed it with no problem.
 

Bigbore500r

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Agreed a 49 state cat will pass CA Smog, and unless the guy get under the car and looks at the cat no one is the wiser.

The key is to patina the new welded in cat so it does not draw attention of the smog guy looks under the car.

I had to smog my CTS-V 20 minutes before I sold it at a strange smog place. It had a non CARB intake on it and luckily he passed it with no problem.
Patina Cats......don't let tomorrow's rat rodders get ahold of that fashion panache
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Patina Cats......don't let tomorrow's rat rodders get ahold of that fashion panache

Vinegar in a spray bottle. Spray down new cat. Drive for a couple days, repeat until sufficiency seasoned.

I learned the techniques of putting patina on modifications doing so many 24 Hours of Lemons races :)

Brand new rebuilt undercarriage of a car looked like it had been sitting in a field for a decade :)
 

Bigbore500r

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Vinegar in a spray bottle. Spray down new cat. Drive for a couple days, repeat until sufficiency seasoned.

I learned the techniques of putting patina on modifications doing so many 24 Hours of Lemons races :)

Brand new rebuilt undercarriage of a car looked like it had been sitting in a field for a decade :)
I had to Patina a cat, kicked it around in some gravel and rocks, hit it with some cooking spray and trans fluid and burned it in. Ugliest, most-legalist cat you ever seen
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I had to Patina a cat, kicked it around in some gravel and rocks, hit it with some cooking spray and trans fluid and burned it in. Ugliest, most-legalist cat you ever seen

Solid plan. The cooking spray and trans fluid is not for the faint of heart :)
 

SBMech

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lol. You have some serious anger problems.

Did my comment trigger some self actualization for you or something? Realize you’re not a good person? That you don’t know everything and spout your mouth off without any true knowledge? You’re going down a path that isn’t healthy. Take care of this before it’s too late.

Lol? Ok Dr Phil. I am a terrible person who knows nothing, yet somehow manages to fix hundreds of vehicles a year, reply to everyone who PM's me about advice...

You need to go after me because you think I have no expertise? Barking up the wrong tree paper pusher.

Go file some paper work or something and feel like you contribute somehow to society, I'll keep the actual wheels rolling.

Again, go fuck yourself you useless piece of shit.
 

ChumpChange

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Lol? Ok Dr Phil. I am a terrible person who knows nothing, yet somehow manages to fix hundreds of vehicles a year, reply to everyone who PM's me about advice...

You need to go after me because you think I have no expertise? Barking up the wrong tree paper pusher.

Go file some paper work or something and feel like you contribute somehow to society, I'll keep the actual wheels rolling.

Again, go fuck yourself you useless piece of shit.

At this point you’ve gone off the deep end and I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I guess reading comprehension has never been your strong suit. But again, keep making yourself the alpha dog by using profanity and reacting to something in your own head.

And go after you? I pointed something out and then validated my comment with facts and proving my point when you asked me to. Seems like a pretty simple conversation. I win. You lose.
 

HALLETT BOY

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At this point you’ve gone off the deep end and I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I guess reading comprehension has never been your strong suit. But again, keep making yourself the alpha dog by using profanity and reacting to something in your own head.

And go after you? I pointed something out and then validated my comment with facts and proving my point when you asked me to. Seems like a pretty simple conversation. I win. You lose.
Oh shit , this thread didn’t end well …can’t we all just get along ?
 

Ziggy

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Got it, makes sense now....

I'm starting to lean towards aftermarket replacement with 50 state cat.. I should be able to get 4 more years out of this car....

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
If you get new cats put 'em on for testing then swap them back out to preserve until your next test cycle.
 

Christopher Lucero

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back up at 3/4 throttle for 5 minutes
Hey, that is the kind of conditioning protocol that begs for a dyno roller...not likely the mfr meant to do it on the road...so...
If you do this on a roadway can you video this portion of the protocol?
3/4 throttle in reverse for 5 minutes is going to get you goin pretty good, don't you think?
 

SBMech

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Nice bump pot stirrer. :D I thought it ended well at Post #140 with "I win. You lose." :D

You really want to start shit up with me again you weenie bumping little bitch? You did not "win" shit. I have never deleted a post, walked shit back, nor refused to admit when I was wrong.

I was over this faggotry with you months ago, and have left you the fuck alone, but you want to start some shit again apparently.

Karma is a bitch kid.
 

ChumpChange

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You really want to start shit up with me again you weenie bumping little bitch? You did not "win" shit. I have never deleted a post, walked shit back, nor refused to admit when I was wrong.

I was over this faggotry with you months ago, and have left you the fuck alone, but you want to start some shit again apparently.

Karma is a bitch kid.

I did not bump this thread. If you would please take a second look and note the post above mine, you will notice that I am not a bumping little bitch. You should be used to being wrong by now so this is nothing new to you.
 

SBMech

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I did not bump this thread. If you would please take a second look and note the post above mine, you will notice that I am not a bumping little bitch. You should be used to being wrong by now so this is nothing new to you.

You did not need to reply and smirk about "I win" either, yet you did. Passive aggressive much cupcake? At least I can admit when I am wrong and don't just go away and hide.

I would not have responded to this post if you had not.
 

ChumpChange

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You did not need to reply and smirk about "I win" either, yet you did. Passive aggressive much cupcake? At least I can admit when I am wrong and don't just go away and hide.

I would not have responded to this post if you had not.

Admitted you were wrong. Now memorialized. My work here is done.

And I did need to reply to @HALLETT BOY as he asked a question.
 
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