Bidding a prevailing wage project

[Done-it-again]

How do I go about bidding a prevailing wage job? as I have never done one.

We are bidding a garment conveyor system for the Santa Barbera jail.

If we were Union we would be consider Millwrights. Do I need to pay my guys Millwright wages? this is really that simple?

 

[DC-88]

How do I go about bidding a prevailing wage job? as I have never done one.

We are bidding a garment conveyor system for the Santa Barbera jail.

If we were Union we would be consider Millwrights. Do I need to pay my guys Millwright wages? this is really that simple?

Need to do certified payroll at the correct wage, but yes it's pretty easy .

 

[FENDERFAB]

You have to register with the DIR as a public works contractor. there is a fee involved with this for however many years you wish to register for.

To determine your wage rates- you will go to this link and find your trade. There are different categorizations of workers depending on your workers skill levels. The rates listed will be the paid rate to the employee. Additionally you will have your standard medical/social security/ liability insurance, workers comp etc on top of that.

Director's General Prevailing Wage Determinations

www.dir.ca.gov

Depending on who you are working for, most of the time they require certified payroll records. So once you are in process of the project you will go on to the DIR and upload your certified payroll records and then submit them to the DIR as well as send copies to the contractor or entity that hired you.

 

[Albert]

Just charge 3 times your normal price

 

[NicPaus]

Just charge 3 times your normal price

After figuring in your additional labor costs.

 

[Icky]

How do I go about bidding a prevailing wage job? as I have never done one.

We are bidding a garment conveyor system for the Santa Barbera jail.

If we were Union we would be consider Millwrights. Do I need to pay my guys Millwright wages? this is really that simple?

Santa Barbara would fall under Zone pay for the Millwrights on a prevailing wage job. There would be a pay increase above the normal wages as well as hotel$. Since we're Union we have to sit on a call and "claim" our work before the project starts.

 

[Done-it-again]

You have to register with the DIR as a public works contractor. there is a fee involved with this for however many years you wish to register for.

To determine your wage rates- you will go to this link and find your trade. There are different categorizations of workers depending on your workers skill levels. The rates listed will be the paid rate to the employee. Additionally you will have your standard medical/social security/ liability insurance, workers comp etc on top of that.

Director's General Prevailing Wage Determinations

www.dir.ca.gov

Depending on who you are working for, most of the time they require certified payroll records. So once you are in process of the project you will go on to the DIR and upload your certified payroll records and then submit them to the DIR as well as send copies to the contractor or entity that hired you.

Thanks for the information. I have to see if we are going direct or will the conveyor mfg will be going direct as we the sub.

If we bid it as a sub, then who would need to register with the DIR?

 

[Done-it-again]

Santa Barbara would fall under Zone pay for the Millwrights on a prevailing wage job. There would be a pay increase above the normal wages as well as hotel$. Since we're Union we have to sit on a call and "claim" our work before the project starts.

I'll have, perdiem, hotels, flights, cars all of it.. All but 1 guy lives out of CA...

 

[FENDERFAB]

It can be complicated when you get deep into it but thats a real basic overview.

Technically, no matter if you are a sub or not you still need to register with the DIR. However it really depends on who you are working for and what they require.

I have worked for contractors that needed copies of pay checks and every single document signed and sent over, and i have had others that didnt request a single thing.

 

[was thatguy]

Just charge 3 times your normal price

4x is better!

 

[Deckin Around]

Make sure you have your wage rates correct for the bid. Then plan on your guys forever bitching at every other job where they are not making that wage or even worse when some of your employees are put on a higher paying jobsite doing the same work as those not.

 

[JL95]

My company stays away from these "due to the pay period". I think they just don't want to pay anyone that much lmfao.

 

[Romans9]

Make sure you have your wage rates correct for the bid. Then plan on your guys forever bitching at every other job where they are not making that wage or even worse when some of your employees are put on a higher paying jobsite doing the same work as those not.

This is spot on. Some of your help will be worthless after this. It’s always the ones you didn’t see coming……..

 

[was thatguy]

It’s a great opportunity for said employees to temporarily max out their 401’s.
That’s what I did whenever I’d get sent to CA PW jobs.

 

[J DUNN]

We refuse to bid PW jobs due to the amount of crap to deal with on certified payroll.

Also, helpers on the job make roughly $50 an hour for our trade. A driver that I normally pay $20 an hour goes up to $50 if he steps foot on jobsite out of the truck.
We have done them and I hand pick the installers that get rewarded with the high pay for the same work they do every day. But we really try to avoid them. I think our standard markup is 20% which is basically tripling our install cost.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Only thing I have to add, is getting ducks in a row to do PW jobs may not be a bad idea. In the past, when some work tightens up, the government always has (our) money to spend. It can help float a rough time if needed as an owner.

 

[calkid]

You have to register with the DIR as a public works contractor. there is a fee involved with this for however many years you wish to register for.

To determine your wage rates- you will go to this link and find your trade. There are different categorizations of workers depending on your workers skill levels. The rates listed will be the paid rate to the employee. Additionally you will have your standard medical/social security/ liability insurance, workers comp etc on top of that.

Director's General Prevailing Wage Determinations

www.dir.ca.gov

Depending on who you are working for, most of the time they require certified payroll records. So once you are in process of the project you will go on to the DIR and upload your certified payroll records and then submit them to the DIR as well as send copies to the contractor or entity that hired you.

Do not even bid a job until you have registered with the D.I.R. and have a really good understanding of the system. The fines can be devastating for a small contractor even if you simply bid a project before being registered.

 

[Done-it-again]

Its an inmate property conveyor that needs to be replaced..... I though CA was letting all the inmates out!!!!!!!

 

[zhandfull]

Prevailing wage work is a steep learning curve.

Its not just the crew pay. Lot of labor compliance and apprenticeship requirements.

With that said, best way to learn is to just jump in.

 

[Taboma]

Its an inmate property conveyor that needs to be replaced..... I though CA was letting all the inmates out!!!!!!!

Jail, like prison jobs can come with a lot of red tape getting cleared and badged initially, in addition to the daily delays entering the facility. Pay careful attention to that aspect that's hopefully well covered in the specifications.
Years ago we did a lot of federal prevailing wage projects, from being the prime to sub. Back then the rules regarding a general being required to "List" you, depended on if you were 2nd or 3rd, 3rd did not require listing at bid time.
As was mentioned before, certain areas automatically trigger per diem requirements.

Good Luck

 

[ChumpChange]

Its an inmate property conveyor that needs to be replaced..... I though CA was letting all the inmates out!!!!!!!

Can you subcontract the prisoners for cheap labor?

 

[Done-it-again]

Jail, like prison jobs can come with a lot of red tape getting cleared and badged initially, in addition to the daily delays entering the facility. Pay careful attention to that aspect that's hopefully well covered in the specifications.
Years ago we did a lot of federal prevailing wage projects, from being the prime to sub. Back then the rules regarding a general being required to "List" you, depended on if you were 2nd or 3rd, 3rd did not require listing at bid time.
As was mentioned before, certain areas automatically trigger per diem requirements.

Good Luck

We have done a couple prisons, but they were under construction so it was different... We also have done maintenance work at other local jails in OC and SB, again different

This time its an established prison that a competitors equipment is failing after 8yrs and needs to be removed and a new one installed. It was explained to the equipment mfg who was doing the walk through was told it needed to be PW. The others we did never said.

The possible delays has me worried a bit including where can we stage the new equipment and trash the old. I don't screw my customers price wise, but I cant do it free, and don't want to look like an asshole with a crazy ass price guessing what we will come across (if we even do).

All my guys get perdiem as they travel out side their home state...

 

[Done-it-again]

Can you subcontract the prisoners for cheap labor?

I'm not sure these days, a guy who works for me did many many years ago and called "Trustees " . You just need to listen telling you their life story.

 

[monkeyswrench]

We have done a couple prisons, but they were under construction so it was different... We also have done maintenance work at other local jails in OC and SB, again different

This time its an established prison that a competitors equipment is failing after 8yrs and needs to be removed and a new one installed. It was explained to the equipment mfg who was doing the walk through was told it needed to be PW. The others we did never said.

The possible delays has me worried a bit including where can we stage the new equipment and trash the old. I don't screw my customers price wise, but I cant do it free, and don't want to look like an asshole with a crazy ass price guessing what we will come across (if we even do).

All my guys get perdiem as they travel out side their home state...

If there are multiple bids, usually all of them are what would normally be considered high. It's like the extra "service charge" everyone adds for dealing with the stupidity.

At least you have a crew that can get clearance to work at a prison. With roofing, it was real difficult for prisons and military bases...

 

[Bobby V]

We have done a couple prisons, but they were under construction so it was different... We also have done maintenance work at other local jails in OC and SB, again different

This time its an established prison that a competitors equipment is failing after 8yrs and needs to be removed and a new one installed. It was explained to the equipment mfg who was doing the walk through was told it needed to be PW. The others we did never said.

The possible delays has me worried a bit including where can we stage the new equipment and trash the old. I don't screw my customers price wise, but I cant do it free, and don't want to look like an asshole with a crazy ass price guessing what we will come across (if we even do).

All my guys get perdiem as they travel out side their home state...

Is it a sealed bid.

 

[Taboma]

If there are multiple bids, usually all of them are what would normally be considered high. It's like the extra "service charge" everyone adds for dealing with the stupidity.

At least you have a crew that can get clearance to work at a prison. With roofing, it was real difficult for prisons and military bases...

We bid PW Navy jobs from 1980 until mid 90's as a prime, then as a 2nd & 3rd tier sub for long after that.
Early on with essentially no mobile phones, we had to scout out a nearby hotel with a decent bank of pay phones. I never went to a bid opening with a final number, that always depended on a phone call to my estimator about 15-20 minutes prior to bidding in order to hopefully garner a better last minute major sub or supplier quote.
So I'd call, get the final price(s) for base bid and any adders, then sprint from the pay phone up to the ROICCs office and deposit the bid. Then everybody sits in a room awaiting the results.
I never, ever wore or had anything that displayed a company name. Bid day was "Incognito" day. Mostly because on these types of major electrical underground retrofit projects, bids were often widely spread, from ridiculous high to equally ridiculous low, so when stupid numbers were read, everybody was looking around the room for the dumb-ass.
At the 32nd Street Naval Station we'd been there for going on three years after successfully winning the bids for the first two phases of upgrading the Base's 12KV power and substations. Come phase 3, after having completed two phases successfully, we had 'Da Kine' pricing and backing from our subs and suppliers.
Wrong, we lost that bid to a local company by a ridiculous WTF !!!! amount. Found out later, it's because the dumb shits just happened to forget to add the price of the miles of 15KV cable. That one job punished that company for years and damn near shut it's doors.
Bid days were nerve wracking nail bitters --- sometimes you left happy you got it, other you were happy somebody else was dumber than you, so you left
unscathed to fight again.

 

[Joker]

Prevailing wage jobs are not simple to say the least. Is this a PLA job? If so, plan on becoming signatory for the duration of the job and donating 25% of your employees wages to the union which they will never receive. This includes pension, assessments, training, health & welfare and Im sure I'm forgetting something. For instance, my guy currently should be making $53.34 per hour as a journeyman, but since the mob takes their cut, he's only taking $41.30 per hour. It's a complete scam IMHO. It doesn't affect me but my employee is donating to a worthless cause.
Paperwork will kill you. I do it all myself and not one week goes by where they ask for documentation. If you're not good with paperwork, forget it. Also remember there's a difference between Federal and State. Employees are required to be paid weekly. Subsistence needs to be documented.
DIR is still fucked up and you cannot submit payroll online even after they squeeze you for over $400.00 a year. Fill out your DAS forms per the DIR site.
I'm currently enrolling on a PLA job for LAUSD. Note, this job will last one day but we will hire a union hack who will then go on to collect unemployment the day after the job is over. You will be sent the laziest , almost homeless worker they have available.
Good Luck

 

[Bobby V]

Prevailing wage jobs are not simple to say the least. Is this a PLA job? If so, plan on becoming signatory for the duration of the job and donating 25% of your employees wages to the union which they will never receive. This includes pension, assessments, training, health & welfare and Im sure I'm forgetting something. For instance, my guy currently should be making $53.34 per hour as a journeyman, but since the mob takes their cut, he's only taking $41.30 per hour. It's a complete scam IMHO. It doesn't affect me but my employee is donating to a worthless cause.
Paperwork will kill you. I do it all myself and not one week goes by where they ask for documentation. If you're not good with paperwork, forget it. Also remember there's a difference between Federal and State. Employees are required to be paid weekly. Subsistence needs to be documented.
DIR is still fucked up and you cannot submit payroll online even after they squeeze you for over $400.00 a year. Fill out your DAS forms per the DIR site.
I'm currently enrolling on a PLA job for LAUSD. Note, this job will last one day but we will hire a union hack who will then go on to collect unemployment the day after the job is over. You will be sent the laziest , almost homeless worker they have available.
Good Luck

This is exactly the reason why most GCs don’t hire non union companies for PW or PLA projects.

 

[Joker]

This is exactly the reason why most GCs don’t hire non union companies for PW or PLA projects.

We get hired all the time and not one union company wishes they had hired someone else. I've got better relationships with union contractors than non union and these relationships have lasted well over 15 years. 80 percent of our work is PW.
Here's one for you, A large union contractor was hiring a union contractor to perform the work we do. Their work sucks, so we got in even though our numbers were higher. Some contractors actually care about quality.

 

[Icky]

Prevailing wage jobs are not simple to say the least. Is this a PLA job? If so, plan on becoming signatory for the duration of the job and donating 25% of your employees wages to the union which they will never receive. This includes pension, assessments, training, health & welfare and Im sure I'm forgetting something. For instance, my guy currently should be making $53.34 per hour as a journeyman, but since the mob takes their cut, he's only taking $41.30 per hour. It's a complete scam IMHO. It doesn't affect me but my employee is donating to a worthless cause.
Paperwork will kill you. I do it all myself and not one week goes by where they ask for documentation. If you're not good with paperwork, forget it. Also remember there's a difference between Federal and State. Employees are required to be paid weekly. Subsistence needs to be documented.
DIR is still fucked up and you cannot submit payroll online even after they squeeze you for over $400.00 a year. Fill out your DAS forms per the DIR site.
I'm currently enrolling on a PLA job for LAUSD. Note, this job will last one day but we will hire a union hack who will then go on to collect unemployment the day after the job is over. You will be sent the laziest , almost homeless worker they have available.
Good Luck

The mob gets paid on top of the journeymans wage. Total package is closer to 80$ per hour

 

[Javajoe]

Only thing I have to add, is getting ducks in a row to do PW jobs may not be a bad idea. In the past, when some work tightens up, the government always has (our) money to spend. It can help float a rough time if needed as an owner.

Yep. We are busy ALWAYS. Bond money baby. Never a slow year but we are the CM so we run / manage the project. We don’t get PW since we are Salary but do make great pay and benefits

 

[Joker]

For some stupid reason, the roofers claimed us in San Diego. It’s $53.34

 

[Bobby V]

We get hired all the time and not one union company wishes they had hired someone else. I've got better relationships with union contractors than non union and these relationships have lasted well over 15 years. 80 percent of our work is PW.
Here's one for you, A large union contractor was hiring a union contractor to perform the work we do. Their work sucks, so we got in even though our numbers were higher. Some contractors actually care about quality.

If the company you work does so much work for PW or PLA’s. Why dont they just join the Union and save all the paperwork. I know when I was still a estimator one of the biggest complaints from the office girls was the extra paperwork and certified payroll on some projects.

 

[WYRD]

Thanks for the information. I have to see if we are going direct or will the conveyor mfg will be going direct as we the sub.

If we bid it as a sub, then who would need to register with the DIR?

Yes you need to be registered as a public works contractor. I can help you with this if you want to talk about it tomorrow.

 

[Joker]

If the company you work does so much work for PW or PLA’s. Why dont they just join the Union and save all the paperwork. I know when I was still an estimator one of the biggest complaints from the office girls was the extra paperwork and certified payroll on some projects.

Almost Every company I work for is Union. To be honest Bobby, I’ve been doing this since 91 and it’s really too late to join. I’ve had others want to have us join them as the union arm but my money is getting divided at that point. I 100 percent would take working for a union contractor before non union. It’s not only safety but it’s getting paid.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Simple answer, if you’ve gone this far in business and never done a PW job. Take a solid pass on this one. For a smaller company it’s a complete PIA and just not worth it, especially for a 1 time job. If it was hey i want to get into doing…….. jobs. Then jump into the game. Otherwise no fkn thanks

 

[Joker]

Simple answer, if you’ve gone this far in business and never done a PW job. Take a solid pass on this one. For a smaller company it’s a complete PIA and just not worth it, especially for a 1 time job. If it was hey i want to get into doing…….. jobs. Then jump into the game. Otherwise no fkn thanks

100 percent. The paperwork is a challenge but I appreciate the fact that I can do it. If the OP isn’t going to pursue more PW work , take a hard pass or learn a lesson on this one.

 

[Done-it-again]

Is it a sealed bid.

If there are multiple bids, usually all of them are what would normally be considered high. It's like the extra "service charge" everyone adds for dealing with the stupidity.

At least you have a crew that can get clearance to work at a prison. With roofing, it was real difficult for prisons and military bases...

We are a pretty niche business and our competitors don’t carry the necessary insurance and don’t have a business address.

We are the only company bidding and there are only 2 manufactures that are similar equipment needed. The main GC building the prison 8years ago wanted to save 50k on a 30mil project and went with the sub par equipment. Now the prison needs to replace the equipment and don’t want the same equipment they have.

Think a dry cleaners conveyor just much more heavy duty and bigger.

 

[Joker]

We are a pretty niche business and our competitors don’t carry the necessary insurance and don’t have a business address.

We are the only company bidding and there are only 2 manufactures that are similar equipment needed. The main GC building the prison 8years ago wanted to save 50k on a 30mil project and went with the sub par equipment. Now the prison needs to replace the equipment and don’t want the same equipment they have.

Think a dry cleaners conveyor just much more heavy duty and bigger.

Just be prepared to be audited on a weekly basis through LCP Tracker or whoever they will use. As another poster stated, I can help you through it.

 

[monkeyswrench]

For some stupid reason, the roofers claimed us in San Diego. It’s $53.34

View attachment 1425964

Yep, that cards a killer. So many journeymen per apprentice. Then also had to figure in Operating Engineers costs for crane loads, Pipe Fitters & Sparkys for HVAC....

@Taboma , one of my mentor types told me something that made sense, and worked on non-PV large new construction really pretty well. He said bid it fair, not to high and make sure you're covered. The real money is in the change orders. Sure as heck, always a different platform, skylight or equipment screen that wasn't on the prints.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

I don’t understand the “don’t do PW” stuff… EVERY business should be diversified and sometimes, the PW will carry you through the odd times. NOBODY has more $ to piss away than .gov!

To the OP, just be smart, there are free resources to help you, and this community can help as well.

 

[Joker]

I don’t understand the “don’t do PW” stuff… EVERY business should be diversified and sometimes, the PW will carry you through the odd times. NOBODY has more $ to piss away than .gov!

To the OP, just be smart, there are free resources to help you, and this community can’t help as well.

We do whatever work is available. The public sector will always have work.

 

[viperized_jr]

Like stated above it really comes down to paperwork. They might have local hire which you will have to show you tried. If it’s a 1 off job for you but you can bid accordingly and make sure you are covered it can be a good learning curve for you so you can continue to bid.

Just know daily reports from your guys will have to match all payroll and a so on. I love it when my guys send in time but didn’t do a daily and now money is held because everything doesn’t match up. Also be ready to get paid way later haha.

 

[Done-it-again]

Prevailing wage jobs are not simple to say the least. Is this a PLA job? If so, plan on becoming signatory for the duration of the job and donating 25% of your employees wages to the union which they will never receive. This includes pension, assessments, training, health & welfare and Im sure I'm forgetting something. For instance, my guy currently should be making $53.34 per hour as a journeyman, but since the mob takes their cut, he's only taking $41.30 per hour. It's a complete scam IMHO. It doesn't affect me but my employee is donating to a worthless cause.
Paperwork will kill you. I do it all myself and not one week goes by where they ask for documentation. If you're not good with paperwork, forget it. Also remember there's a difference between Federal and State. Employees are required to be paid weekly. Subsistence needs to be documented.
DIR is still fucked up and you cannot submit payroll online even after they squeeze you for over $400.00 a year. Fill out your DAS forms per the DIR site.
I'm currently enrolling on a PLA job for LAUSD. Note, this job will last one day but we will hire a union hack who will then go on to collect unemployment the day after the job is over. You will be sent the laziest , almost homeless worker they have available.
Good Luck

Don’t know what a PLA job is.

 

[Joker]

Don’t know what a PLA job is.

It’s a project labor agreement where you have to sign up with the union.

 

[WYRD]

Don’t know what a PLA job is.

Project labor agreement.. basically an individual negotiated contract with the Contracting agency and typically the local unions to use skilled and trained labor(journeyman that have graduated a state approved apprenticeship) if you don't have enough in your own Workforce you may be forced to hire union workers. Also things like local hire meaning a percentage of your employees need to reside within a certain geographical area around the job site. Each one has its own terms so make sure you read it and bid accordingly. Also make sure you look at the prison requirements for gaining access to the job. Often times you will spend multiple hours both checking in and out of the facility. This will severely reduce the productive hours to get actual work done.

 

[Done-it-again]

Thanks to all who responded. I’m taking an and extended weekend and getting out of the heat for a few days and will get back at next week.

By then we should have more information on the project.

I don’t expect doing many PW as this is the first time in my 25 yrs. The other time we had to hire union labor out of hall in New Jersey for a project. Learned a lesson on that one. Had 25 millwright and blew a breaker on temp power and all the guys sat and no one was going to reset it. So we did and got hell for it, needless to say we hired an electrician the next day.

 

[Done-it-again]

Project labor agreement.. basically an individual negotiated contract with the Contracting agency and typically the local unions to use skilled and trained labor(journeyman that have graduated a state approved apprenticeship) if you don't have enough in your own Workforce you may be forced to hire union workers. Also things like local hire meaning a percentage of your employees need to reside within a certain geographical area around the job site. Each one has its own terms so make sure you read it and bid accordingly. Also make sure you look at the prison requirements for gaining access to the job. Often times you will spend multiple hours both checking in and out of the facility. This will severely reduce the productive hours to get actual work done.

Thanks. Will chat once I know more next week.

 

[jet496]

How do I go about bidding a prevailing wage job? as I have never done one.

We are bidding a garment conveyor system for the Santa Barbera jail.

If we were Union we would be consider Millwrights. Do I need to pay my guys Millwright wages? this is really that simple?

Don't do it! The unions will/have ensured that private sector contractors will not win if playing in their backyard. I respect that now. It's their turf. I did many over the decades and can tell you plenty but no time. So, unless you plan on doing prevailing wage jobs exclusively, it doesn't pay off. Just my 2 cents.

PS: I even had Disabled Vet status, with an advantage over others, yet it still was NOT worth the hassle.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Don't do it! The unions will/have ensured that private sector contractors will not win if playing in their backyard. I respect that now. It's their turf. I did many over the decades and can tell you plenty but no time. So, unless you plan on doing prevailing wage jobs exclusively, it doesn't pay off. Just my 2 cents.

PS: I even had Disabled Vet status, with an advantage over others, yet it still was NOT worth the hassle.

It really depends on the individual trades involved and the Union's strength in that area. One of the larger roofing shops in SoCal was non-union, and did a ton of prevailing wage work. I don't know how they pulled it off, but they were constantly going up against the biggest union shop. Both were well equipped, employed their own sheetmetal, HVAC and electrical crews.