• Welcome to River Dave's Place

Boat Design And Material Question...

Discussion in 'RD's Lounge' started by monkeyswrench, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. monkeyswrench

    monkeyswrench Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,599
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    In slightly misguided effort to steer towards boating content, I have formed another oddball boat question or two...again.

    The generally accepted design for hulls seems to be a composite structure of resin and fiber, reinforced with wood. There is the guy who showed up with the aluminum deck boat with twin Evinrudes, but to my knowledge that is a one off deal. There are also "Snake River" style aluminum setups, and of course duck boats. Why isn't the use of alloys a popular choice among performance manufacturers? With the advent of the modern cad programs, panels could be cut, placed in jigs and welded. The flooring itself could even be made of the same material used for floors in commercial aircraft. I would think if structured properly, you could maintain, or even gain rigidity while shaving weight. It may be a point of diminishing returns as hulls get larger, but I don't know.

    Comments, knowledge and standard derogatory statements? Why's and why not's?
     
  2. mash on it

    mash on it Beyond Hell Crew

    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    1,619
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Aluminum turbine jet boats.
    125+ mph.
    A "K" boat or GN boat wouldn't be able to catch it.
    Bring your wallet.



    Dan'l
     
    spectra3279, Dennis-19, QC22 and 3 others like this.
  3. 4Waters

    4Waters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,056
    Likes Received:
    16,234
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    20191120_192720.png

    Seemed fitting. LOL



    Good question as I have also wondered about the weight loss possibilities, I do know that one of, if not the top of the line wakeboats (Pavati) is aluminum.
     
  4. 4Waters

    4Waters Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,056
    Likes Received:
    16,234
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    That looks sketchy AS FUCK:eek: I like it.
     
  5. Shlbyntro

    Shlbyntro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,509
    Likes Received:
    2,101
    Joined:
    May 27, 2018
    I think you may be right on the diminishing returns portion when talking about aluminum.

    My belief, and mind you this is just speculation: is that fiberglass (carbon fiber and other composites) included is malleable mostly by hand like laying blankets down to infinite shapes, bends, curves, etc. And then once you get it to the desired shape, set it (resin it) and done. It allows for all kinds of complex curves, steps, easy modification to the molds as you improve. The sheer cost of the equipment capable, or the man power to cut, measure, bend, weld large sheets of metal over many masses of complex curves and bends would just be horrendous and the product would not be competitive price wise on the open market. ever notice how aluminum boats are very plain Jane in terms of curves, bends, steps, strakes, etc. it's the only way that the production of those boats can turn a profit in general terms and the aluminum hulls are more utilitarian than performance oriented. Granted, there is always the niche market exceptions where money is no object.

    The other thing to consider is that fiberglass/carbon fiber is a much more durable product as far as standing up to the elements than other options too. Just think, would you want to keep an aluminum boat in salt water. Even wood boats back in the day had to be replanked and packed constantly. Fiberglass has a much lower cost of ownership and longevity. Especially when it comes to saltwater.

    My $0.02
     
    Dkahnjob, fmo24 and monkeyswrench like this.
  6. PlanB

    PlanB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    768
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    I would love an aluminum deck boat with twin O/B's. Could beach it like a toon, but with much better performance.
     
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  7. riverroyal

    riverroyal Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,154
    Likes Received:
    5,184
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    My damn pontoon was 90k for 3 aluminium logs with not much engineering.
    I think fiberglass is cheaper
     
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  8. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,318
    Likes Received:
    17,571
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Fuck off. :cool:
     
    monkeyswrench and 4Waters like this.
  9. Gelcoater

    Gelcoater Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,318
    Likes Received:
    17,571
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Wood doesn’t suck entirely.

    Today many are moving to foam core, infusion stuff.
    Guys like DCB have been doing so for some time. Eliminator is dabbling in it.
    I personally like balsa core, flow coated and pretty.
    I think and hope wood will always be an option. It’s so much more elegant than coosa board black foam.
     
    SBMech, Dkahnjob, old rigger and 3 others like this.
  10. mash on it

    mash on it Beyond Hell Crew

    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    1,619
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Eagle Outlaw 21' tunnel.
    One sexy hull.
    Price competitive? I think so.
    $14,900 for a hull, 2020 model.
    Durable? Fiberglass doesn't fair too well if ya hit bottom, fyi.

    Dan'l
     
    River Runnin and monkeyswrench like this.
  11. Shlbyntro

    Shlbyntro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,509
    Likes Received:
    2,101
    Joined:
    May 27, 2018
    Not bad, it's still a smaller boat though
     
  12. monkeyswrench

    monkeyswrench Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,599
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Didn't know those were aluminum...went on their site. Pretty cool!
     
  13. Sharp Shooter

    Sharp Shooter The "anti-yuppie"

    Messages:
    4,842
    Likes Received:
    4,351
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Modern K boats run north of 150, but you'll never find one running a shallow river. How fast does your fastest turbine boat go?
     
  14. mash on it

    mash on it Beyond Hell Crew

    Messages:
    1,393
    Likes Received:
    1,619
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Modern k boats run north of 150?
    For how long?

    Dan'l
     
  15. Sharp Shooter

    Sharp Shooter The "anti-yuppie"

    Messages:
    4,842
    Likes Received:
    4,351
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Depends on the race course....
     
  16. jbird

    jbird Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    405
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    I saw an aluminum deck boat in Havasu this summer. Wish I would of snagged a pic of it. Looked pretty interesting
     
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  17. monkeyswrench

    monkeyswrench Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,599
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    The deck boat running Parker and Havasu is what piqued my interest. Ever have a concept just gnawing at you? Good intentions and bad ideas...story of my life:rolleyes:
     
    jbird likes this.
  18. Go-Fly

    Go-Fly Where Are My Shoes?

    Messages:
    4,212
    Likes Received:
    4,439
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Boat design is 20% function and 80% trend. If RD showed up with an all aluminum boat and endorsed it as the best, baddest MF'er. You couldn't keep up with sales.
     
    Havasu Catman, Icky and Beerme like this.
  19. monkeyswrench

    monkeyswrench Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,599
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    ....And that is why the prototype will not only be polished with blue mountains, but also pre stocked;)
     
    spectra3279 and Shlbyntro like this.
  20. coolchange

    coolchange Lower level functionary

    Messages:
    4,849
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    X and y axis pretty straight forward in alloy. Add a z axis in the middle things get real complicated.
     
    outboard_256 and monkeyswrench like this.
  21. 76 Southwind

    76 Southwind Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    306
    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    There was an all aluminum wake board boat running parker this year with a wrap so it was hard to tell except up close.. No Pics sorry....But I did see it...
     
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  22. PlanB

    PlanB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    768
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2018
    That guy lives in Havasu. I followed his build on FB. Cool boat, but it's a one off. He is still experimenting. The last thing he did was notch the transom.
     
    jbird likes this.
  23. Crazyhippy

    Crazyhippy Haters gonna Hate

    Messages:
    5,483
    Likes Received:
    793
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    Someone (Cougar maybe) made some big offshore race cats from aluminum. 46' or so.

    Not sure how it actually worked.

    Would have to be VERY well supported on the bottom. Airplane fuselages don't see much external force applied to them. If you tried to drop one from 2-3ft into a pool, I have no questions it would seriously deform around the internal support structures.
     
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  24. Headless hula

    Headless hula Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,268
    Likes Received:
    20,005
    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Fiberglass tends to be a quieter ride.
     
    QC22 and monkeyswrench like this.
  25. old rigger

    old rigger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    2,643
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Would love to see one of these enter in the Parker enduro. Or for that matter, the circles in Long Beach.
     
  26. old rigger

    old rigger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    2,643
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    I love K boats but who's runs North of 150? Kilo is still in the 140's.
     
  27. RiverDave

    RiverDave In it to win it

    Messages:
    95,662
    Likes Received:
    62,642
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    There was quite a few offshore race boats built out of aluminum. A guy I know Jodi in Carlsbad has a big aluminum vee he runs recreationally.

    I’m pretty sure that big vee on the side of west coast drives with the hole in the side is aluminum.

    I know there was a fairly well to do guy back in the day trying to break the bravo 1 speed records running an eliminator. He ended up building a big aluminum vee.

    I’m not sure why they aren’t more popular.. I don’t think you are ever going to get the same shapes out of aluminum as you will fiberglass.

    The pavati deal is an incredible boat, and has more features than you can shake a stick at... but they are a little boxy and industrial when you get in them.

    Pros and cons I’m sure could be argued both ways all day long.
     
  28. RiverDave

    RiverDave In it to win it

    Messages:
    95,662
    Likes Received:
    62,642
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    1st part yes.. 2nd part not so much. Lol.
     
  29. Headless hula

    Headless hula Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,268
    Likes Received:
    20,005
    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Steve Curtis ran a big aluminum cat. I believe he and his dad built the thing.
    @HydroSkreamin will be able to fill in the details on that one.
     
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  30. fmo24

    fmo24 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,795
    Likes Received:
    1,817
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    I believe the “Popeye’s” guy trans Atlantic Boat was a big aluminum v bottom as well
     
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  31. Sharp Shooter

    Sharp Shooter The "anti-yuppie"

    Messages:
    4,842
    Likes Received:
    4,351
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    This boat does on the regular.

    DSC05429.JPG
     
    SBMech and monkeyswrench like this.
  32. monkeyswrench

    monkeyswrench Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,599
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Quiet and efficient...not my style:D

    I want to wake up both fish and hungover boaters:D
     
  33. RiverDave

    RiverDave In it to win it

    Messages:
    95,662
    Likes Received:
    62,642
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    That’s impressive if true!! That’s hauling ass
     
  34. spectras only

    spectras only Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,920
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    these are some pretty large aluminum boats, up to 50'

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    monkeyswrench and Headless hula like this.
  35. monkeyswrench

    monkeyswrench Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,599
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    The cat, but say 2/3 scale...and a "different" lid;)
     
  36. RiverDave

    RiverDave In it to win it

    Messages:
    95,662
    Likes Received:
    62,642
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    That liquid technologies boat I believe is the same guy I referenced earlier that was going after the Bravo Drive records years back.

    That cat was bad ass, but if I remember right it was never finished and parted out?

    RD
     
    spectras only likes this.
  37. spectras only

    spectras only Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,920
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    That cat is still hidden somewhere in the outskirts of Vancouver. ArnesonRik was shafted by the owner, never got paid for the drives. The owner of the cat owns the gray 36' Falcon as well. He's a shyster broker with an ongoing securities investigation on him.
    More pics of the boats
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The V Falcon
    [​IMG]
    Older Arnesons
    [​IMG]
     
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  38. spectras only

    spectras only Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,920
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Dave, the cat is finished, but the owner is hiding it.He owns a 120' yacht named 'Two thousand Ten'. Somehow he scammed a lot of investors on that one too, he owns majority of stocks in that one.;) I've been on it, it's nice but not the best out of Vancouver. The ones [ Sovereign Yachts , Status Quo's] my buddy Craig worked on way nicer, especially the interiors.


    http://www.spirityachtcharters.com/?title=spirit
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    monkeyswrench likes this.
  39. Go-Fly

    Go-Fly Where Are My Shoes?

    Messages:
    4,212
    Likes Received:
    4,439
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    I think you under market yourself. :(
     
  40. monkeyswrench

    monkeyswrench Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,599
    Likes Received:
    9,010
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    A shyster boat broker? The hell you say...

    Too bad it's locked away. Interesting structure. No where near as heavy a structure setup as the deck boat in Havasu, at least not in pics.
     
  41. SBMech

    SBMech Fixes Broken Stuff

    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    9,436
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Weight has a place when you are going fast on the water IMO.

    Hydro dynamics take second fiddle when you only have a few feet of boat ass in the water....catch a ripple at high speeds and it turns into a wing.

    I think Lexi has the right idea about hauling ass on the water...his custom extended cav plates on his 21' Schiada, along with the bottom work and his 2400HP Compound Monster powering it's bad ass v-drive.

    If I remember it right it's a fucking tank, laid up super heavy, and the extended plates push it down when it takes a set even harder, so he can run 130+ and stay stuck in the water, instead of it turning into a wing.

    Lexi's Roid Rage Rod at speed.png

    Fiberglass reinforced with wood bends rather than shattering....
     

Share This Page