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Boat Design And Material Question...

monkeyswrench

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In slightly misguided effort to steer towards boating content, I have formed another oddball boat question or two...again.

The generally accepted design for hulls seems to be a composite structure of resin and fiber, reinforced with wood. There is the guy who showed up with the aluminum deck boat with twin Evinrudes, but to my knowledge that is a one off deal. There are also "Snake River" style aluminum setups, and of course duck boats. Why isn't the use of alloys a popular choice among performance manufacturers? With the advent of the modern cad programs, panels could be cut, placed in jigs and welded. The flooring itself could even be made of the same material used for floors in commercial aircraft. I would think if structured properly, you could maintain, or even gain rigidity while shaving weight. It may be a point of diminishing returns as hulls get larger, but I don't know.

Comments, knowledge and standard derogatory statements? Why's and why not's?
 

4Waters

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20191120_192720.png


Seemed fitting. LOL



Good question as I have also wondered about the weight loss possibilities, I do know that one of, if not the top of the line wakeboats (Pavati) is aluminum.
 

Shlbyntro

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I think you may be right on the diminishing returns portion when talking about aluminum.

My belief, and mind you this is just speculation: is that fiberglass (carbon fiber and other composites) included is malleable mostly by hand like laying blankets down to infinite shapes, bends, curves, etc. And then once you get it to the desired shape, set it (resin it) and done. It allows for all kinds of complex curves, steps, easy modification to the molds as you improve. The sheer cost of the equipment capable, or the man power to cut, measure, bend, weld large sheets of metal over many masses of complex curves and bends would just be horrendous and the product would not be competitive price wise on the open market. ever notice how aluminum boats are very plain Jane in terms of curves, bends, steps, strakes, etc. it's the only way that the production of those boats can turn a profit in general terms and the aluminum hulls are more utilitarian than performance oriented. Granted, there is always the niche market exceptions where money is no object.

The other thing to consider is that fiberglass/carbon fiber is a much more durable product as far as standing up to the elements than other options too. Just think, would you want to keep an aluminum boat in salt water. Even wood boats back in the day had to be replanked and packed constantly. Fiberglass has a much lower cost of ownership and longevity. Especially when it comes to saltwater.

My $0.02
 

PlanB

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I would love an aluminum deck boat with twin O/B's. Could beach it like a toon, but with much better performance.
 

riverroyal

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My damn pontoon was 90k for 3 aluminium logs with not much engineering.
I think fiberglass is cheaper
 

Gelcoater

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The generally accepted design for hulls seems to be a composite structure of resin and fiber, reinforced with wood.
Wood doesn’t suck entirely.

Today many are moving to foam core, infusion stuff.
Guys like DCB have been doing so for some time. Eliminator is dabbling in it.
I personally like balsa core, flow coated and pretty.
I think and hope wood will always be an option. It’s so much more elegant than coosa board black foam.
 

mash on it

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The sheer cost of the equipment capable, or the man power to cut, measure, bend, weld large sheets of metal over many masses of complex curves and bends would just be horrendous and the product would not be competitive price wise on the open market. ever notice how aluminum boats are very plain Jane in terms of curves, bends, steps, strakes, etc. it's the only way that the production of those boats can turn a profit in general terms and the aluminum hulls are more utilitarian than performance oriented. Granted, there is always the niche market exceptions where money is no object.

The other thing to consider is that fiberglass/carbon fiber is a much more durable product as far as standing up to the elements than other options too. Just think, would you want to keep an aluminum boat in salt water. Even wood boats back in the day had to be replanked and packed constantly. Fiberglass has a much lower cost of ownership and longevity. Especially when it comes to saltwater.

My $0.02
Eagle Outlaw 21' tunnel.
One sexy hull.
Price competitive? I think so.
$14,900 for a hull, 2020 model.
Durable? Fiberglass doesn't fair too well if ya hit bottom, fyi.

Dan'l
 

monkeyswrench

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Eagle Outlaw 21' tunnel.
One sexy hull.
Price competitive? I think so.
$14,900 for a hull, 2020 model.
Durable? Fiberglass doesn't fair too well if ya hit bottom, fyi.

Dan'l
Didn't know those were aluminum...went on their site. Pretty cool!
 

Sharp Shooter

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Aluminum turbine jet boats.
125+ mph.
A "K" boat or GN boat wouldn't be able to catch it.
Bring your wallet.
Modern K boats run north of 150, but you'll never find one running a shallow river. How fast does your fastest turbine boat go?
 

jbird

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I would love an aluminum deck boat with twin O/B's. Could beach it like a toon, but with much better performance.
I saw an aluminum deck boat in Havasu this summer. Wish I would of snagged a pic of it. Looked pretty interesting
 

monkeyswrench

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I would love an aluminum deck boat with twin O/B's. Could beach it like a toon, but with much better performance.
I saw an aluminum deck boat in Havasu this summer. Wish I would of snagged a pic of it. Looked pretty interesting
The deck boat running Parker and Havasu is what piqued my interest. Ever have a concept just gnawing at you? Good intentions and bad ideas...story of my life:rolleyes:
 

Go-Fly

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Boat design is 20% function and 80% trend. If RD showed up with an all aluminum boat and endorsed it as the best, baddest MF'er. You couldn't keep up with sales.
 

76 Southwind

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There was an all aluminum wake board boat running parker this year with a wrap so it was hard to tell except up close.. No Pics sorry....But I did see it...
 

PlanB

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I saw an aluminum deck boat in Havasu this summer. Wish I would of snagged a pic of it. Looked pretty interesting
That guy lives in Havasu. I followed his build on FB. Cool boat, but it's a one off. He is still experimenting. The last thing he did was notch the transom.
 

Crazyhippy

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Someone (Cougar maybe) made some big offshore race cats from aluminum. 46' or so.

Not sure how it actually worked.

Would have to be VERY well supported on the bottom. Airplane fuselages don't see much external force applied to them. If you tried to drop one from 2-3ft into a pool, I have no questions it would seriously deform around the internal support structures.
 

old rigger

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Aluminum turbine jet boats.
125+ mph.
A "K" boat or GN boat wouldn't be able to catch it.
Bring your wallet.


Dan'l
Would love to see one of these enter in the Parker enduro. Or for that matter, the circles in Long Beach.
 

old rigger

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Modern K boats run north of 150, but you'll never find one running a shallow river. How fast does your fastest turbine boat go?
I love K boats but who's runs North of 150? Kilo is still in the 140's.
 

RiverDave

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There was quite a few offshore race boats built out of aluminum. A guy I know Jodi in Carlsbad has a big aluminum vee he runs recreationally.

I’m pretty sure that big vee on the side of west coast drives with the hole in the side is aluminum.

I know there was a fairly well to do guy back in the day trying to break the bravo 1 speed records running an eliminator. He ended up building a big aluminum vee.

I’m not sure why they aren’t more popular.. I don’t think you are ever going to get the same shapes out of aluminum as you will fiberglass.

The pavati deal is an incredible boat, and has more features than you can shake a stick at... but they are a little boxy and industrial when you get in them.

Pros and cons I’m sure could be argued both ways all day long.
 

RiverDave

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Boat design is 20% function and 80% trend. If RD showed up with an all aluminum boat and endorsed it as the best, baddest MF'er. You couldn't keep up with sales.
1st part yes.. 2nd part not so much. Lol.
 

fmo24

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I believe the “Popeye’s” guy trans Atlantic Boat was a big aluminum v bottom as well
 

RiverDave

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these are some pretty large aluminum boats, up to 50'




That liquid technologies boat I believe is the same guy I referenced earlier that was going after the Bravo Drive records years back.

That cat was bad ass, but if I remember right it was never finished and parted out?

RD
 

spectras only

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That cat is still hidden somewhere in the outskirts of Vancouver. ArnesonRik was shafted by the owner, never got paid for the drives. The owner of the cat owns the gray 36' Falcon as well. He's a shyster broker with an ongoing securities investigation on him.
More pics of the boats


The V Falcon

Older Arnesons
 

spectras only

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Dave, the cat is finished, but the owner is hiding it.He owns a 120' yacht named 'Two thousand Ten'. Somehow he scammed a lot of investors on that one too, he owns majority of stocks in that one.;) I've been on it, it's nice but not the best out of Vancouver. The ones [ Sovereign Yachts , Status Quo's] my buddy Craig worked on way nicer, especially the interiors.


http://www.spirityachtcharters.com/?title=spirit
 
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monkeyswrench

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That cat is still hidden somewhere in the outskirts of Vancouver. ArnesonRik was shafted by the owner, never got paid for the drives. The owner of the cat owns the gray 36' Falcon as well. He's a shyster broker with an ongoing securities investigation on him.
More pics of the boats


The V Falcon

Older Arnesons
A shyster boat broker? The hell you say...

Too bad it's locked away. Interesting structure. No where near as heavy a structure setup as the deck boat in Havasu, at least not in pics.
 

SBMech

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Weight has a place when you are going fast on the water IMO.

Hydro dynamics take second fiddle when you only have a few feet of boat ass in the water....catch a ripple at high speeds and it turns into a wing.

I think Lexi has the right idea about hauling ass on the water...his custom extended cav plates on his 21' Schiada, along with the bottom work and his 2400HP Compound Monster powering it's bad ass v-drive.

If I remember it right it's a fucking tank, laid up super heavy, and the extended plates push it down when it takes a set even harder, so he can run 130+ and stay stuck in the water, instead of it turning into a wing.

Lexi's Roid Rage Rod at speed.png


Fiberglass reinforced with wood bends rather than shattering....
 
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