Boat wont turn right

[Husqy510]

Some of you may have followed the build of our 2003 Howard Cat. So far we've put about 3hr of drive time on it and this morning we developed a new issue.

The boat will not turn right. It turns to the left fine, but it comes back to center and won't go any further. It has dual hydraulic ram assist, so cable to the transom and dual ram assist. To me it seems like something is binding in the rack portion of the cable. I disconnect it from the helm and the wheel spins freely, but when connected it won't go right. When I go full left I can hear the power steering pump bind, but when I got to the right it just stops with no change in sound from the power steering.

Any ideas?

 

[rivermobster]

Nascar called. They want their boat back.

Thanks

 

[Ziggy]

To me it sounds like it's not centered. ie: you are at full right lock when you get to center with steering wheel.......however, that's a car guys opinion and not a boat tech.

 

[Danger Dave]

Your boat is a liberal.

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

Damn....sounds like something ain't right....good luck....

 

[LC925]

On the hydraulic steering, is there a line for the right and a line for the left? Is it possible maybe one of the lines, that flows to the right, is plugged/clogged to where it won’t allow oil to flow? I don’t know anything about anything, just brain storming I suppose. I have full hydraulic steering and thought I remember seeing numerous hoses. Just not sure about hydraulic assist.

 

[Shlbyntro]

I suppose it is possible that the dual ram assist is not allowing the actuator inside the boat to switch the valving to run the other direction and your power steering pump is literally fighting the steering cable. Cant say I've heard of this happening before but it's my best guess as to what you are describing.

I would try temporarily disconnecting the assist rams and see if the problem goes away. If so, may want to consider a full hydraulic setup?

 

[Ancientriverdude]

Nascar called. They want their boat back.

Thanks

My immediate thought, but shouldn’t it be a Daytona instead of a Howard???

 

[Husqy510]

Haha, you guys are a lot of help.

Thanks Ziggy, but absolutely nothing has changed, and it was working fine last time we were out. I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Husqy510]

Does anyone know if their is an adjustment on the cable at the rack end? I disconnected the cable at the transom end turned the wheel lock to lock, which is a little over 3 full rotations.

When I turn the wheel all the way to the left the cable dissappears into the power steering assembly (which makes me think its travelingto far to the left), but when I go all the way to the right it doesn't physically travel far enough to push the outdrive to the right. Which makes me think the whole thing is biased to the left, kind of like Ziggy mentioned.

The thing is nothing changed, and did turn right initially, which makes me think there is some sort of adjustment that is slowly backing out

 

[HALLETT BOY]

This website has no room / tolerance for boat issues ...

 

[2Driver]

I think of hydraulics I think of check valves? Just a thought.

 

[CobraDave]

Does anyone know if their is an adjustment on the cable at the rack end? I disconnected the cable at the transom end turned the wheel lock to lock, which is a little over 3 full rotations.

When I turn the wheel all the way to the left the cable dissappears into the power steering assembly (which makes me think its travelingto far to the left), but when I go all the way to the right it doesn't physically travel far enough to push the outdrive to the right. Which makes me think the whole thing is biased to the left, kind of like Ziggy mentioned.

The thing is nothing changed, and did turn right initially, which makes me think there is some sort of adjustment that is slowly backing out

Your boat is a god damn liberal!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Did it skip teeth at the helm so the cable is maxing out one way. I've had this happen with cable steering, I dont have much experience with hydraulic assist.

 

[LuauLounge]

3 left turns equals a right turn

 

[Happy Smitty]

3 left turns equals a right turn

Geez you beat me to that one by 2 mins!

Anyway Turing right is over rated. 3 left's like above.

 

[Husqy510]

Did it skip teeth at the helm so the cable is maxing out one way. I've had this happen with cable steering, I dont have much experience with hydraulic assist.

I thought it might be something like that, but I think its an issue with the cable

 

[fmo24]

@Racey he is a master at this shit

 

[572ext]

Two questions will the drive move right at all ? Is it a flat rack steering cable?

 

[500bbc]

Your boat is a liberal.

Then.it would never go straight

 

[Danger Dave]

Then.it would never go straight

That would be transphobic, we don't do that here.

 

[Husqy510]

Two questions will the drive move right at all ? Is it a flat rack steering cable?

Yes and yes. Flat rack, and I disconnected everything and the drive swings left and right freely

 

[572ext]

Did you center the drive with the rack off of the helm then center the steering wheel then bolt the rack back up. Also before you do that check for broken gears on the helm and the rack have some one turn the drive right and left while you look at the teeth on the rack. Is that cable old I think you just rigged that boat but was the cable in it before? If so if it is a dermar cable they had a plastic clip to hold the rack centered could be broken

 

[guest hs]

Leave the rack bolted to the helm pull the cable out out the steering tube and see if it turns let and right full stroke of the cable

 

[Howardflat]

What hydraulic system do you have?

 

[Husqy510]

Leave the rack bolted to the helm pull the cable out out the steering tube and see if it turns let and right full stroke of the cable

I did that and it does not appear to have full stroke, must be an issue with the cable.

The hydraulics is imco

 

[Howardflat]

I'd give IMCO NV a call. Ask for Ron. He knows his stuff and a guy always willing to help. 702-294-3030

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I’d go with it’s not the cable or the helm, I’d say it’s something between your Brazil fitting and the rams. I’d start by removing the rams from the drive (top bolt on both that attach to the upper) then see if it’ll turn. Your cable also turns the drive the rams just make it easier under load.

If it’ll turn clock to clock you “know” cable is ok. If it doesn’t then you should know it is the cable. But I’d say the Brazilian valve is plugged, IMCO suggests cleaning the filter often and most assist set ups don’t even run a filter on the steering.

 

[guest hs]

I did that and it does not appear to have full stroke, must be an issue with the cable.

The hydraulics is imco

There you go now pull it from the helm and see if it’s the cable or helm replace as necessary

 

[throttle]

I know this isn't a lot of help....

have you tried another prop?

 

[Husqy510]

Well there's our problem. Now we need to figure out why that happened

 

[BUSTI]

Junk the Cable. Go full hydraulic to the helm.

 

[Husqy510]

Junk the Cable. Go full hydraulic to the helm.

I'd love to, but it's not in the cards right now.

Has anyone seen this before?

 

[Lavey5150]

Just go to Elsinore or Perris, you're all good.Seriously- hope you figure it out- Full Hydraulic, you'll never look back.

 

[Husqy510]

Is this a common failure point? I was under the impression that their is a light load on the actual cable. I thought the cable initiates the hydraulics.

 

[Icky]

Get the part number off the cable, I believe marine industries west or Eliminator had one in stock when I replaced mine a few years back. Similar set up on my Daytona

 

[Husqy510]

Sorry i just realized I forgot to attach the picture

 

[92562]

Given your HP level, I would suggest a hydraulic helm as well to clean everything up.

 

[Husqy510]

As mentioned above, full hydraulic just isn't in the cards this summer.

I'm still curious if anyone has seen this type of failure, as I've been boating my entire life and never seen it. I'm wondering if it was a defect in the cable, or if the hydraulics are fighting the cable.

 

[stingray11]

Unhook the cable and see if you can turn the steering wheel lock to lock and see if at least 1 foot of cable comes out of jacket

 

[Racey]

Sorry i just realized I forgot to attach the picture

Dude, imagine how Friggin dangerous that could be.... full hydraulic is just a helm valve, column and some hoses. The cost of maybe 3 full tanks of gas in the boat...


If i had to guess why the failure happened i would imagine the brazil valve is binding/sticky and you are trying to overpower it with the cable, and in the compressive direction the cable is not very strong, hence why it works good in the other direction when you are pulling the cable....

The brazil valve actuates from the sheath of the cable, not the cable itself. When you apply input the sheath naturally tries to move the opposite direction of the cable, this pulls or pushes the brazil valve which then allows fluid to flow, which makes the steering move until that movement relieves that sheath pressure and closes the valve back off stopping the fluid movement. The cable itself is hard fixed to the output of the ram, it does not move independently of the ram, The ram actually pulls or pushes the cable when you apply steering input, not the cable pushing or pulling the ram, Sounds kinda counter intuitive but thats how it works.

It's a lead/chase system that is self regulating when working properly.

That brazil rack costs more than the helm valve for full hydraulic, i'd be tossing it in the trash and putting full hydraulic on it.


If you look at this video i found you can see how applying input where the cable sheath connects is what actuates the steering. The guy is pushing and pulling on the sheath mount. The inner cable is hard fixed to the end of the cylinder and is just along for the ride.

 

[Husqy510]

That's a great video and I really appreciate the detailed response. I was always under the impression the cable like I have, though not as smooth, offered an extra layer of safety.

When i was younger a good friend owned a stoker outboard with hydraulic steering. One day a bunch of us are heading up river in multiple boats and he passes me going about 60. All of a sudden his boat turns hard right ejecting four passengers and he rides the boat onto the rocks, because it lost hydraulic pressure. Maybe the system on our boats is different, but I'm curious what happens if you loose hydraulic pressure in a full hydraulic system.

Last question, and I greatly appreciate your help, is there a specific kit that comes with the necessary valve and hose lines to upgrade the system?

 

[Racey]

That's a great video and I really appreciate the detailed response. I was always under the impression the cable like I have, though not as smooth, offered an extra layer of safety.

When i was younger a good friend owned a stoker outboard with hydraulic steering. One day a bunch of us are heading up river in multiple boats and he passes me going about 60. All of a sudden his boat turns hard right ejecting four passengers and he rides the boat onto the rocks, because it lost hydraulic pressure. Maybe the system on our boats is different, but I'm curious what happens if you loose hydraulic pressure in a full hydraulic system.

Last question, and I greatly appreciate your help, is there a specific kit that comes with the necessary valve and hose lines to upgrade the system?

Nothing, in a full hydraulic system the rams do not move, there is no feedback to the wheel, when you loose pressure. You can steel steer as the helm unit will pump fluid by turning the wheel, it is just very stiff when pressure is gone.

Full hydraulic is much safer than cable assisted. Extremely low failure rate.

Edit, and yes IMCO sells everything you need as a kit to do fully hydraulic upgrade, it adapts to the extisting inverted flair lines going to your brazil rack. and comes with the proper lines, column, helm unit, filter, etc.

Call IMCO NV, talk to Ron, 702-294-3030

 

[SBMech]

Nothing, in a full hydraulic system the rams do not move, there is no feedback to the wheel, when you loose pressure. You can steel steer as the helm unit will pump fluid by turning the wheel, it is just very stiff when pressure is gone.

Full hydraulic is much safer than cable assisted. Extremely low failure rate.

Edit, and yes IMCO sells everything you need as a kit to do fully hydraulic upgrade, it adapts to the extisting inverted flair lines going to your brazil rack. and comes with the proper lines, column, helm unit, filter, etc.

Call IMCO NV, talk to Ron, 702-294-3030

Just curious, in a vehicle the spool valve is turned mechanically by the linkage/shaft attachment to either the rack or the box.

In a boat full hydraulic system is it 2 separate hydraulic systems? Where the actuator/spool valve is controlled mechanically via a separate clutch/slave type system?

 

[Outdrive1]

One of the rams is plumbed backwards. Thats my guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Racey]

Just curious, in a vehicle the spool valve is turned mechanically by the linkage/shaft attachment to either the rack or the box.

In a boat full hydraulic system is it 2 separate hydraulic systems? Where the actuator/spool valve is controlled mechanically via a separate clutch/slave type system?

In a full hydraulic system, the helm control is the spool valve, it's directly connected to the steering wheel.

In the cable assist the spool valve is the brazil or saginaw style attached to the inboard steering rack.

 

[guest hs]

I have never seen a rack cable come apart at the rack like that

 

[rmarion]

I'm just stating the obvious.... its definitely time to change the steering cable.... that cable is toast...

 

[Husqy510]

I have never seen a rack cable come apart at the rack like that

After a bunch of trouble shooting I determined the issue was with the cable so I drilled out the rack to see what failed. Obviously something caused the cable to bind, but it was still intact.

 

[Husqy510]

Nothing, in a full hydraulic system the rams do not move, there is no feedback to the wheel, when you loose pressure. You can steel steer as the helm unit will pump fluid by turning the wheel, it is just very stiff when pressure is gone.

Full hydraulic is much safer than cable assisted. Extremely low failure rate.

Edit, and yes IMCO sells everything you need as a kit to do fully hydraulic upgrade, it adapts to the extisting inverted flair lines going to your brazil rack. and comes with the proper lines, column, helm unit, filter, etc.

Call IMCO NV, talk to Ron, 702-294-3030

I spoke with Ron and he was extremely helpful. Looks like I'll be doing the upgrade sooner than I had planned. I put my family in the boat and want to make sure its safe