Boeing stock

[Bpracing1127]

Just to add, we just a huge deal from Boeing on their military tanker and other programs. also we just landed a big multi year deal with their SLS program. Not sure about the commercial side, but space and military and booming right now.

 

[Cobalt232]

Just another opinion but interesting article.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-boeing-bean-counters-courted-the-737-max-disaster?ref=author

I disagree with the findings of this article. Boeing had to develop something quick to compete with the new A321xx's, so they developed the MAX. The airlines did not want the 'new' 737 MAX to have a new type rating for the crew. Boeing had to devise software that minimized the extra nose up tendency of the new engines to behave like the existing 737's. Underwing engines will always nose up under power, but the MAX does it more, that is why MCAS was developed. The MAX is not an inherently unstable aircraft, but the MCAS design was flawed.

Hoping Boeing can put one out of the ballpark on the new midmarket aircraft like they did on the 787. Remember the 787 was flawed in the beginning and now it is an excellent aircraft with good reliability (with GE engines) and no hull losses so far.

I don't have any Boeing stock (my dad has that covered as a BA retiree), but have a nice amount of Southwest, so the sooner MAX flies again the better.

 

[530RL]

I disagree with the findings of this article. Boeing had to develop something quick to compete with the new A321xx's, so they developed the MAX. The airlines did not want the 'new' 737 MAX to have a new type rating for the crew. Boeing had to devise software that minimized the extra nose up tendency of the new engines to behave like the existing 737's. Underwing engines will always nose up under power, but the MAX does it more, that is why MCAS was developed. The MAX is not an inherently unstable aircraft, but the MCAS design was flawed.

Hoping Boeing can put one out of the ballpark on the new midmarket aircraft like they did on the 787. Remember the 787 was flawed in the beginning and now it is an excellent aircraft with good reliability (with GE engines) and no hull losses so far.

I don't have any Boeing stock (my dad has that covered as a BA retiree), but have a nice amount of Southwest, so the sooner MAX flies again the better.

I have no idea. I just thought it was an interesting article on the different routes taken by Boeing versus Airbus.

Having dealt with the FAA when owning a part 145 repair station, I do wonder who will actually want to sign off and say it is all good to go?

The natural default is indecision and let's do a couple more tests leading to longer delays until those who actually have to sign it off can completely cover their ass.

 

[Singleton]

I have no idea. I just thought it was an interesting article on the different routes taken by Boeing versus Airbus.

Having dealt with the FAA when owning a part 145 repair station, I do wonder who will actually want to sign off and say it is all good to go?

The natural default is indecision and let's do a couple more tests leading to longer delays until those who actually have to sign it off can completely cover their ass.

GE aviation wants the MAX in the air. They can’t recognize and revenue on the engines supporting the MAX until delivery to customers. The number of engines sitting waiting for fina delivery goes up each day.

 

[Spudsbud]

1 sure thing. When the Max's go back up, so will the stock.

 

[530RL]

Latest litigation.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/southwest-boeing-had-reckless-greedy-112002180.html

 

[Cobalt232]

Latest litigation.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/southwest-boeing-had-reckless-greedy-112002180.html

That's crap. SWA pax suing??? How were they damaged?

 

[spectras only]

What goes up must come down. It's still not guaranteed you'll make it home alive flying. Boeing did screw the pooch if center of gravity changed by installing bigger engines and they relied strictly on a software upgrade to deal with pitching or stalling. Those "eleven" people are sure out to line some pockets but I agree companies should be accountable if they knowingly let airlines find out of there's some extra training required to deal with electrical gremlins. If I was a relative to those who died in the recent crashes, I'd definitely go after Boeing but I think those 11 are still just drummed up by lawyers IMO.

 

[Cobalt232]

What goes up must come down. It's still not guaranteed you'll make it home alive flying. Boeing did screw the pooch if center of gravity changed by installing bigger engines and they relied strictly on a software upgrade to deal with pitching or stalling. Those "eleven" people are sure out to line some pockets but I agree companies should be accountable if they knowingly let airlines find out of there's some extra training required to deal with electrical gremlins. If I was a relative to those who died in the recent crashes, I'd definitely go after Boeing but I think those 11 are still just drummed up by lawyers IMO.

The MAX is not an unstable aircraft. With underslung engines, applying power pitches the nose up. The MAX pitches up more. MCAS was developed so the handling would be similar to all the other 737's flying to avoid a new crew type rating.

 

[spectras only]

I i like 737's but, if there wasn't a problem with the Max, they wouldn't be grounded for so long.

 

[Fltplan]

The MAX is not an unstable aircraft. With underslung engines, applying power pitches the nose up. The MAX pitches up more. MCAS was developed so the handling would be similar to all the other 737's flying to avoid a new crew type rating.

Some might say that if software is required to keep an aircraft inside a normal operating envelope, it is unstable. The bigger engines are a stretch for this certificate type. The original design of the landing gear just doesn’t allow for engines as big as the Max has. The MCAS is a work around for a design flaw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BajaMike]

Some might say that if software is required to keep an aircraft inside a normal operating envelope, it is unstable. The bigger engines are a stretch for this certificate type. The original design of the landing gear just doesn’t allow for engines as big as the Max has. The MCAS is a work around for a design flaw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with Fltplan, the bigger, more fuel efficient engines couldn’t fit under the wing, so they moved them up and forward. So they use the MCAS to make it flyable (or less likely to stall)....then don’t require enough training to deal with it. Makes the plane cheaper for airlines to acquire and operate.

As a stockholder, I’d like to see some heads roll in the engineering and executive departments (the CEO should be first to get fired for letting this happen). The stockholders and Directors should be saying “if you can do the job we will get someone who can).

In hindsight, they should have built a clean slate single isle, twin engine aircraft built around the new engines (with room to spare for the bigger engines in 20 years) and one that you could hand fly in most conditions. They can’t do that now because it will tank the sales of the MAX (assuming it gets back in the air soon).

I’m a Boeing fan but the entire MAX program was a HUGE FAIL.

 

[530RL]

The latest including some text messages that Boeing made available.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifesty...al-737-max-issues-years-before-deadly-crashes

 

[TPC]

The latest including some text messages that Boeing made available.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifesty...al-737-max-issues-years-before-deadly-crashes

They shot themselves in the balls with this info.

 

[Singleton]

The latest including some text messages that Boeing made available.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifesty...al-737-max-issues-years-before-deadly-crashes

That might cause a problem, but the issue was not consistent during testing.
Friends with a certified 737 Max pilot (sr pilot on 737 for AA for 30+ years) and he stated some days things worked great, others it was a CF. Root cause was a PIA to identify and his issue was Boeing did not tell pilots and airlines WTF this new system did or how it worked.

My sister works at GE Aviation and is the Dir of Finance for the GE engine on the 737 Max. They don’t get to recognize revenue until the plane has been received by the airline. Huge deferred revenue impact for them this year.

 

[Cobalt232]

The latest including some text messages that Boeing made available.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifesty...al-737-max-issues-years-before-deadly-crashes

Obviously there is a disconnect between engineering and these sim pilots and eventually the line pilots. But, these texts aren't related to what happened in the 2 accidents. This is not a smoking gun as pointed out. These 2 sim pilots are discussing how MCAS is controlling speed trim at a lower speed (Mach .2) than they believed would occur.

 

[GRADS]

Yeah that stock is going to go down tomorrow.

 

[GRADS]

As a new flyer...definitely something I don't want my pilot say... from the article....

Forkner: granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious

 

[530RL]

Latest......

https://www.yahoo.com/news/stocks-boeing-suppliers-fall-reports-140442173.html

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Think "they" will be happy when Boeing sells itself to the Chinese?

 

[Orange Juice]

If you’re buying Boeing, your buying GE.

 

[2Driver]

I'm sure there's lots to be made selling the peaks and valleys of this stock based on the news of the day, but you just don't know what the next news is going to be. Bad on top of Bad has been the trend line.

You don't want to be holding the stock when the approved Max's go into service. God forbid one goes down..

 

[Cobalt232]

If you’re buying Boeing, your buying GE.

Are you saying because of similarities or because of CFM?

 

[Xring01]

I think I would Short Boeing at this juncture... I see more downside, than upside...

That may change in a week or two.. for now.. now way I would buy it long

 

[Orange Juice]

Are you saying because of similarities or because of CFM?

CFM?

Boeing has serious issues with its product line.
GE has serious problems with cash flow, and is downsizing.

GE already took its hit.
Boeing will continue to take hits.

Who wants to fly in a plane that has a history of crashing?

 

[Cobalt232]

CFM is the sole engine supplier to the 737. CFM is a joint venture between GE and Safran.

GE is a mess. Their aviation business is strong though.

Boeing is much more than the 737. This will blow over. Then they can announce the new midmarket aircraft that will replace the 737 and compete with the A320XLR.

 

[DaveH]

this thread cracks me up, and not just here, but all over the net. so many that dont know JACK FUCKING SHIT about flying airplanes or the aviation business running their mouths about how horrible evil Boeing built an aircraft that is aerodynamically unstable.

sadly, like everything nowadays that is sensationalized by the media and stupid uneducated people everywhere, its no different with this situation with the max jet.

its already been proven that had these malfunctioning aircraft been in the hands of skilled, competent and experienced pilots, this never would have happened. Second, there is NOTHING wrong with the design of the new engine installation on this airframe, and the tendency for the aircraft to pitch up with acceleration is a NORMAL condition for any aircraft and is compensated with TRIM. its kinda like a car with a lot of hp that want to squat or even lift the front wheels under heavy acceleration.

obviously the automatic trim system (thats what the MCAS is) needs a redesign and testing. fine. but the reality is the max jet is a good aircraft and nothing inherently wrong with the fundamental design. hell......they just sold a bunch more of them even in the face of all this BS. you think a carrier would buy more of them given what has happened if they thought they were some POS?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Are you saying because of similarities or because of CFM?

No, this has moved on from identifying and fixing a problem to retribution against Boeing IMHO. This all came quick on the heals of Airbus throwing in the towel on the A380 so the world press was on the lookout and the Max issue landed right in their lap ( no pun intended).

Under normal circumstances the airplanes would have been patched by now and back in the air.

It is just silly politics at this point.

 

[Wavemaker]

I’m waiting to see if the FAA is going to ground the American fleets before jumping on this bandwagon. That could have a drastic effect on BA stock!

I also holding my shoes also but, ready to sell quickly if the stock starts to dip downward. I’ve already had the discussion with my stockbroker shortly after the news broke. If the value drops quickly I will drop most of the shares held then, track the stock to buy in again once the stock price starts moving upward again. I will be tracking the stock daily, as will my stockbroker.

 

[GRADS]

I could think of 100 other stocks I'd rather put my money in at this point.

 

[Carlson-jet]

I could think of 100 other stocks I'd rather put my money in at this point.

I Bet there are 2x as many that use child /slave labor that you would step on some old ladies neck to purchase just to be first in line.

 

[GRADS]

I Bet there are 2x as many that use child /slave labor that you would step on some old ladies neck to purchase just to be first in line.

Yes! Why,you got a hot tip?

 

[Carlson-jet]

Yes! Why,you got a hot tip?

AAPL
Double down.

 

[spectras only]

I'm aware that I know JACK SHIT about flying an airplane like the 737Max as DaveH said, but freezing production of the MAx in January is an indicator there are bigger issues to fix problems.Those 400 737's sitting at Boeing's yard will cost Boeing pretty penny before they'll fly/
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50817124

 

[Carlson-jet]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/airlines-to-be-sued-over-911-attacks-0btn2ccksnb

I can sue for a ham sandwich.
There are many more articles.
Just search "Boeing sued over 911"

 

[spectras only]

Yeah, the big three better be ready for lawsuits for homicidal deaths used Ford,GM and Chrysler vehicles.

 

[530RL]

this thread cracks me up, and not just here, but all over the net. so many that dont know JACK FUCKING SHIT about flying airplanes or the aviation business running their mouths about how horrible evil Boeing built an aircraft that is aerodynamically unstable.

sadly, like everything nowadays that is sensationalized by the media and stupid uneducated people everywhere, its no different with this situation with the max jet.

its already been proven that had these malfunctioning aircraft been in the hands of skilled, competent and experienced pilots, this never would have happened. Second, there is NOTHING wrong with the design of the new engine installation on this airframe, and the tendency for the aircraft to pitch up with acceleration is a NORMAL condition for any aircraft and is compensated with TRIM. its kinda like a car with a lot of hp that want to squat or even lift the front wheels under heavy acceleration.

obviously the automatic trim system (thats what the MCAS is) needs a redesign and testing. fine. but the reality is the max jet is a good aircraft and nothing inherently wrong with the fundamental design. hell......they just sold a bunch more of them even in the face of all this BS. you think a carrier would buy more of them given what has happened if they thought they were some POS?

Let’s assume your are correct and all it needs is a “redesign” of the MCAS.

My experience with the FAA, from both repair stations (a Rolls Royce AMOC) as well as Part 121 carriers such as America West and National Airlines, is that you run into the situation after such an event that it becomes very time consuming and difficult to get anyone in the FAA to sign off a return to service. No career civil service employee is going to hang their ass out after two such incidents and as such the ultimate sign off will require approval of the highest levels and complete agreement by all.

So the process of getting approval for the redesigned MCAS is slow, deliberate, requires far more testing than normal and as a result generates very long delays; exactly as we are seeing here. This grounding was allegedly going to be a couple weeks, and it has now exceeded 9 months.

Secondly, the longer the delay, the more the “stupid uneducated people who don’t know JACK FUCKING SHIT” will not want to fly the MAX and the airlines understand this. You might believe that they are stupid, they are uneducated and they don’t know Jack Shit, but they do now how to look at the “equipment” section when making a reservation.

Does the MAX fly again with a new MCAS software and some hardware changes? Most likely does but the delay will continue until such time that someone within the FAA and dozens of other foreign regulatory bodies, as several have stated they want their own reviews, are ready to sign off on return to service.

And that would appear to be more difficult than originally expected by the continued grounding and delays in return to service.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Southwest Airlines is laying off all fields at airports lack of planes lack of work

 

[Cobalt232]

Southwest Airlines is laying off all fields at airports lack of planes lack of work

They just announced this today:

SOUTHWEST AIRLINES CO ( LUV ) - CONTINUES TO EXPERIENCE "SOLID" PASSENGER BOOKINGS AND PASSENGER YIELD TRENDS, YEAR-OVER-YEAR, DURING Q4

 

[riverman140]

company policy says I'm not allowed to comment on this thread LOL

 

[TPC]

Thought I heard Boeing shut down Max production today.

 

[TPC]

With 5G in the passing lane consider this investment:
https://www.americantower.com/

 

[Havasu blue label]

Southwest short on planes that why there booked solid

 

[530RL]

company policy says I'm not allowed to comment on this thread LOL

Would love to know what company.....

Interestingly something I had not thought of was insurance and leasing.

We have been renewing insurance for all my partners stuff as well as our stuff the last month or so and as I was talking to the syndicate that underwrites our insurance and they were talking about the Max.

They brought up the valid consideration for operators relating to the lease rates and the insurance rates on these aircraft after the Boeing analysis that it would have a much higher accident rate than the Airbus alternative.

I have no idea but the issues are far greater than just the Max getting back in the air. Boeing has deep pockets but many of their suppliers do not. Boeing is the largest exporter in the US economy.

It’s just a big unknown and those who bet correctly will make some money, and those who do not, will not.

https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-737-max-faa-analysis-likely-to-crash-2019-12

 

[HB2Havasu]

Thought I heard Boeing shut down Max production today.

Boeing announced they are going to shut down their assembly lines sometime in January. I work for a Boeing Supplier and we haven’t received an official stop work notice from them “yet”. I’m assuming they will be sending this out to their supply chain sometime before Christmas? Our business probably consists of about 20% 737Max, so this definitely is going to hurt the bottom line. I’m assuming we will have to layoff some of our people because of this.

Boeing tried to pull a fast one on the FAA with trying to embed this MCAS software into the control systems to avoid the re-certification and Pilot retraining process. The FAA is not going to bend over backwards to help them out now. They are pissed!!! This could get ugly if it extends into the summer. Usually if furloughs extend beyond 60 days the attrition rate really starts climbing. Getting an aircraft assembly line restarted once it’s been shutdown for 3-6 months is no easy feat! Even harder is getting your supply chain back up to rate when they’ve retooled for other projects.

This could get ugly folks! Not a good time to buy right now.

 

[DLow]

I could think of 100 other stocks I'd rather put my money in at this point.

Exactly.
Yes, Boeing is huge and has deep pockets with this being a very small part of the company, but the public perception is what will continue to drive the stock down. If someone wanted to buy, I’d take a hard look in about 3-6 months.

 

[JDKRXW]

330.73USD Up$ 3.73 (1.14%)
Dec. 18, 9:44 a.m. EST

Now is the time to buy BA.......meaning today.

 

[530RL]

The latest.

What does United know that American and Southwest does not? Maybe going to let American and Southwest return to service first?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spirit-halt-production-parts-boeing-153401480.html

 

[HB2Havasu]

The latest.

What does United know that American and Southwest does not? Maybe going to let American and Southwest return to service first?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spirit-halt-production-parts-boeing-153401480.html

Probably so they don't take more aircraft offline in case Boeing can't get the MAX recertified by March, which is pretty darn ambitious considering they don't even have the MCAS Software script completed and were almost in January. They're already short 16 aircraft due to the current delay.

 

[530RL]

The latest.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-ceo-dennis-muilenburg-is-out-140919300.html