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Build - NOS Kindsvater Flat

MonkeyButt70

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I just acquired this NOS 1976 Kindsvater 19' Flatbottom from a friend. It was ordered about 44 years ago and was delivered and then sat in a warehouse and never rigged. My plan is to build this as if it was built in 1976 with just a few minor updates mechanically. I have virgin 354 Hemi that I will rebuild NA with either Hillborn injectors or dual carb, original Nicson parts, transom through exhaust, forward and rear bench seats, Casale V-drive, hidden stereo (have to have music on my boat).Looking to make it a honest 60-70MPH river/ski boat for the family to enjoy. Planning on having it ready for next season. I will update the build process as I go.
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Boat211

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This should be awesome. What a great find.
 

cofooter

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I just acquired this NOS 1976 Kindsvater 19' Flatbottom from a friend. It was ordered about 44 years ago and was delivered and then sat in a warehouse and never rigged. My plan is to build this as if it was built in 1976 with just a few minor updates mechanically. I have virgin 354 Hemi that I will rebuild NA with either Hillborn injectors or dual carb, original Nicson parts, transom through exhaust, forward and rear bench seats, Casale V-drive, hidden stereo (have to have music on my boat).Looking to make it a honest 60-70MPH river/ski boat for the family to enjoy. Planning on having it ready for next season. I will update the build process as I go. View attachment 807620 View attachment 807621 View attachment 807622 View attachment 807623 View attachment 807624 View attachment 807625
Awesome! Way kool!
 

BlowMe

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Killer find!!! That's gonna be awesome
 

MonkeyButt70

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Started building a dolly for the boat today to get it off the trailer, easier to work on and the trailer needs many repairs and an altitude adjustment (down). Once I get the Dolly built it will head over to Don Mumma at Fantasy Rigging to get rigged.
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MonkeyButt70

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Some progress of getting the geometries of the parts in place, the final seat will be a bench just using the bucket for seating position, look how close the v-drive is to the shaft log from the angle of the strut that was set in 1976, Im sure it was meant for a top loader and also no whirlaway so there was not much wiggle room once it was in, we will use a different collar and seal than pictured this is all just to see how everything will line up. Even though there is alot of room in the boat, everything is going to be very close, you can see how close the steering cable is going to be to the gas pedal. This boat is going to make a great river boat, the bottom is about an inch thick, they knew how to lay them up those days.
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MonkeyButt70

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Progress.....
Made a motor change, Im going with a BBC with EFI with over transom exhaust after we saw how tight the motor sat in the back (i Know the EFI will be a bitch to get right, but I want to try and make it work) Got the motor plates and rails in, cavitation is looking great, the transom was very straight so it did not need much correction in the blocks. Rudder and steering is about 80%. in 2 weeks parts should be in polishing and anodizing. Don Mumma @FantasyRigging is doing an amazing job, follow him on instagram to see other boats and the work he does.
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lenmann

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This is going to be such cool boat. Don is putting together some really clean and tight rigging too.

As I sit here drooling, I was going to ask how the little 1/2" wide aluminum rub rail was held on to the hull because there aren't any screws. I was thinking, like most rub rails, it was hiding the seam between the cap and the hull. But looking at the rear half of the boat I see that the rub rail can't be hiding the seam because the way the hull curves at the transom and gunwales it couldn't be removed from the mold if the rub rail line was the seam. So, the more important question may be how were these rounded transom type hulls molded? Is the true cap/hull seam somewhere south of the rub rail and all of these hulls had the seam filled, smoothed and painted post molding?
 

MonkeyButt70

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This is going to be such cool boat. Don is putting together some really clean and tight rigging too.

As I sit here drooling, I was going to ask how the little 1/2" wide aluminum rub rail was held on to the hull because there aren't any screws. I was thinking, like most rub rails, it was hiding the seam between the cap and the hull. But looking at the rear half of the boat I see that the rub rail can't be hiding the seam because the way the hull curves at the transom and gunwales it couldn't be removed from the mold if the rub rail line was the seam. So, the more important question may be how were these rounded transom type hulls molded? Is the true cap/hull seam somewhere south of the rub rail and all of these hulls had the seam filled, smoothed and painted post molding?
Here is a pick of the driver transom area to see the screws and seam lines.
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lenmann

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Here is a pick of the driver transom area to see the screws and seam lines. View attachment 870351
Thanks for the pic, its answers one question but leaves another open. Any idea what the mold for these kind of hulls looked like? With the seam all the way up that curve it's trapped in the mold after its laminated.

Is your hull painted or was it gelled in the mold?
 

MonkeyButt70

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Thanks for the pic, its answers one question but leaves another open. Any idea what the mold for these kind of hulls looked like? With the seam all the way up that curve it's trapped in the mold after its laminated.

Is your hull painted or was it gelled in the mold?
The paint was gelled in the mold.
 

lenmann

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Sorry to be a PITA but this is bugging the hell out of me now. Do you see what I am describing with the hull and mold? Boat molds are usually like Jello molds, bigger at the top so that what's inside can be removed once it jells or cures. The rounded gunwales on the back half of your hull trap it in the mold.

There are lots of old hulls that have a similar rounded transom as your Kindsvater, I am going nuts trying to figure out how they were laminated and de-molded.

@retaocleg
@old rigger

Any help here fellas?
 

old rigger

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Sorry to be a PITA but this is bugging the hell out of me now. Do you see what I am describing with the hull and mold? Boat molds are usually like Jello molds, bigger at the top so that what's inside can be removed once it jells or cures. The rounded gunwales on the back half of your hull trap it in the mold.

There are lots of old hulls that have a similar rounded transom as your Kindsvater, I am going nuts trying to figure out how they were laminated and de-molded.

@retaocleg
@old rigger

Any help here fellas?
Yes, the Rogers also had these rounded sides called the 'Tumblehome'. You'd pop the part loose then when removing it from the mold, slide it forward and lift out. There's always a little block laminated it the bow where the ski eye will go, this is where the lifting is done. Having said that, back in the day some builders had a 2 piece bottom mold, build the part, unbolt the mold to remove part.


it always amazes me when a bare hull pops up like this one, (or an old car) it always seems to go to the exact right person to finish it. @MonkeyButt70 is doing a beautiful job.
 
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MonkeyButt70

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it always amazes me when a bare hull pops up like this one, (or an old car) it always seems to go to the exact right person to finish it. @MonkeyButt70 is doing a beautiful job.
Thank you for the compliment, My Brother Don Mumma is the true craftsman behind this build, Im just a glorified flashlight holder with a few ideas.
 

lenmann

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Yes, the Rogers also had these rounded sides called the 'Tumblehome'. You'd pop the part loose then when removing it from the mold, slide it forward and lift out. There's always a little block laminated it the bow where the ski eye will go, this is where the lifting is done. Having said that, back in the day some builders had a 2 piece bottom mold, build the part, unbolt the mold to remove part.


it always amazes me when a bare hull pops up like this one, (or an old car) it always seems to go to the exact right person to finish it. @MonkeyButt70 is doing a beautiful job.
@old rigger thanks for that, got my head around it and it makes perfect sense.
 

MonkeyButt70

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More progress today. Some the parts are just staged fit so that I can get an accurate count of the remaining stainless steel bolts, washers, and nuts needed. So much more work to do, this part is so time consuming to get it right.
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retaocleg

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Sorry to be a PITA but this is bugging the hell out of me now. Do you see what I am describing with the hull and mold? Boat molds are usually like Jello molds, bigger at the top so that what's inside can be removed once it jells or cures. The rounded gunwales on the back half of your hull trap it in the mold.

There are lots of old hulls that have a similar rounded transom as your Kindsvater, I am going nuts trying to figure out how they were laminated and de-molded.

@retaocleg
@old rigger

Any help here fellas?
lift the front, pull forward as you continue to lift...……..they come out, believe it or not......the boats get wider as you go forward, thus ability to pull...…if the boat was the wider at the rear after the cap started rolling ovr, it wouldn't pull..........basically, it tapers to the rear, letting it slide forward
 
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fitz spectra 20

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I was with Brent today and looking at you trailer and could not help looking at your Kindsvater boatI my self I like the Hemi I did a 65 Kindsvater with a 425 ci in Nail head Buick. Nice job Love it!!
 
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lift the front, pull forward as you continue to lift...……..they come out, believe it or not......the boats get wider as you go forward, thus ability to pull...…if the boat was the wider at the rear after the cap started rolling ovr, it wouldn't pull..........basically, it tapers to the rear, letting it slide forward
and then you have Mandella's which were Clam Shell molds. not even sure how those worked.
 

retaocleg

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to the OP...……..you didn't by chance buy this from Greg Johnson, did you?
 

retaocleg

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he was the gm at advantage in the 90's and had one just like that...……..same color, only un-resto'd……...beautiful boat ya got there
 

old rigger

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and then you have Mandella's which were Clam Shell molds. not even sure how those worked.
The hull mold is split down the center front to rear and there's a flange on each piece. The halves are bolted together and then it's sprayed and laminated. When it's cured you simply unbolt the mold, separate them from the part and you're done. There's always a little line in the part from the seam in the mold. Of course it sands right down. We had a customer bring in the original Dragon Craft molds to Advantage when I was GM there in the 80s. He was a potato farmer from Idaho and we built him a bare hull one winter. It was the only time I got to work with a split mold like that.
 

MonkeyButt70

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Making some progress, Mocking up interior visuals for the style Im trying to achieve and then make some templates to build it. The front center hump will have a lid for storage and the rear will most likely hold a cooler (ice cold beer is a must)
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cofooter

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Making some progress, Mocking up interior visuals for the style Im trying to achieve and then make some templates to build it. The front center hump will have a lid for storage and the rear will most likely hold a cooler (ice cold beer is a must)
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Good idea mocking up in cardboard. I copied my old ones and had trouble with v-drive clearance due to where I wanted my seats. Ended up having to modify after they were upholstered. Gonna cover the hole with a wood cup holder.
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X Hoser

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Just some food for thought and maybe worth looking into but I talked to an insurance agent today and she stated they could not insure a boat with an open engine compartment and rear facing seats. She stated there must be something separating the rear passengers from the engine. Not sure if this is a rare occasion or industry wide but better to check now before building the seats.
 

MonkeyButt70

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Just some food for thought and maybe worth looking into but I talked to an insurance agent today and she stated they could not insure a boat with an open engine compartment and rear facing seats. She stated there must be something separating the rear passengers from the engine. Not sure if this is a rare occasion or industry wide but better to check now before building the seats.
Thanks for the heads up
 
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