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rivrrts429

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Do they have to pay the CRIT Tax that the rest of us have to pay at Safeway?
 

BoatCop

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Do they have to pay the CRIT Tax that the rest of us have to pay at Safeway?
Yes they do. They are exempt from State, County and Town Sales tax on the Rez, but they DO pay the CRIT tax. Same at all other businesses on the Rez.
 

Looking Glass

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A lot of statements, regarding Indians here are myths.

No. They all don't get checks every month, every year, or some not at all. What they might get are portions of the mineral, gas, oil leases, or money from the Tribal enterprises. The majority of tribes don't give ANYTHING, cash-wise, to their members.

No. They don't get free college. Some might get scholarships, that they apply for and have to qualify for them, just like everyone else. The individual Tribe might be the ones offering the scholarships, but they aren't "free", as the Tribe pays the tuition, fees and other costs.

No. They are not tax exempt. They pay all Federal Taxes, such as Income Taxes, they also pay state taxes (income, property and sales) on income received, property owned, and items bought off of their Reservation.

They are US citizens, so are able to vote, just like every other US citizen. The "Sovereign Immunity" is granted to the Tribal Government itself, not individual Indians. They can be sued just like anyone else. While the 15th Amendment to the Constitution granted all citizens the Right to Vote, regardless of race, it took a literal act of Congress (the Snyder Act) to give Indians that right. And even then some states still didn't allow it till fairly recently. Arizona didn't give it to them until 1948, when the AZ Supreme Court struck down a portion of the AZ Constitution that prevented them from voting.

My wife is a card carrying Cherokee Nation Citizen, as are my son and daughter. They pay all taxes, just like everyone else, and have received zero monetary benefits from the Tribe, or the Federal Government based on their status as Tribal Citizens. My son attended college, has two Bachelors Degrees and a Masters. We, and student loans, paid for every bit of it. No special student loan or pay-off programs. He makes payments every month, just like everyone else. Plus he worked all through College to help pay for it. The one benefit they DO get is Medical Care, but that must be provided by Indian Health Service facilities, or referred from there, in kind of a HMO system. Insurance pays the majority of those costs, with IHS covering any co-pays or deductibles, as long as care is provided by them. If care is obtained out of the system, they pay like everyone else. As far as my wife is concerned, as she's now on MEDICARE and my TRICARE, she wouldn't pay anything anyway. And my kids live too far from any IHS facility, for it to be practical.

That may be so for CRIT, but I am personally aware and have seen the Program called Head Start and in the Summer the younger ones, go to Movies Free, Eat Free Bowl Free. Yes they might have to Qualify, but Education is FREE.
Unless these Programs ENDEDin the Past couple of years, and I am very confident they have NOT, they are still in effect. I do not know where the Monthly Checks come from, but a good friend who does work at a Wells Fargo back there can verify the like Clock Work cashing of Monthly Checks for them.

i honestly do not care, as it is going to continue one way or another, my only Bitch is they do have every opportunity to be such a tremendous SUCCESS, and they for what ever reason do not.
 

mjc

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That may be so for CRIT, but I am personally aware and have seen the Program called Head Start and in the Summer the younger ones, go to Movies Free, Eat Free Bowl Free. Yes they might have to Qualify, but Education is FREE.
Unless these Programs ENDEDin the Past couple of years, and I am very confident they have NOT, they are still in effect. I do not know where the Monthly Checks come from, but a good friend who does work at a Wells Fargo back there can verify the like Clock Work cashing of Monthly Checks for them.

i honestly do not care, as it is going to continue one way or another, my only Bitch is they do have every opportunity to be such a tremendous SUCCESS, and they for what ever reason do not.
When I worked for a bank near a casino/res they came in with their checks every month for 10k plus but still ran out before the end of the month and started bouncing checks every month.
 

BoatCop

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Head Start is a Pre-Kindergarten program for low income children ANYWHERE. It's not an Indian Program. It may seem like it, as they are located on just about every Reservation, and administered through the Tribe, but any and every low income area has Head Start available. The one here in Parker, while administered by CRIT, is open to any child/family that qualifies as low income.
 

hallett21

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A lot of statements, regarding Indians here are myths.

No. They all don't get checks every month, every year, or some not at all. What they might get are portions of the mineral, gas, oil leases, or money from the Tribal enterprises. The majority of tribes don't give ANYTHING, cash-wise, to their members.

No. They don't get free college. Some might get scholarships, that they apply for and have to qualify for them, just like everyone else. The individual Tribe might be the ones offering the scholarships, but they aren't "free", as the Tribe pays the tuition, fees and other costs.

No. They are not tax exempt. They pay all Federal Taxes, such as Income Taxes, they also pay state taxes (income, property and sales) on income received, property owned, and items bought off of their Reservation.

They are US citizens, so are able to vote, just like every other US citizen. The "Sovereign Immunity" is granted to the Tribal Government itself, not individual Indians. They can be sued just like anyone else. While the 15th Amendment to the Constitution granted all citizens the Right to Vote, regardless of race, it took a literal act of Congress (the Snyder Act) to give Indians that right. And even then some states still didn't allow it till fairly recently. Arizona didn't give it to them until 1948, when the AZ Supreme Court struck down a portion of the AZ Constitution that prevented them from voting.

My wife is a card carrying Cherokee Nation Citizen, as are my son and daughter. They pay all taxes, just like everyone else, and have received zero monetary benefits from the Tribe, or the Federal Government based on their status as Tribal Citizens. My son attended college, has two Bachelors Degrees and a Masters. We, and student loans, paid for every bit of it. No special student loan or pay-off programs. He makes payments every month, just like everyone else. Plus he worked all through College to help pay for it. The one benefit they DO get is Medical Care, but that must be provided by Indian Health Service facilities, or referred from there, in kind of a HMO system. Insurance pays the majority of those costs, with IHS covering any co-pays or deductibles, as long as care is provided by them. If care is obtained out of the system, they pay like everyone else. As far as my wife is concerned, as she's now on MEDICARE and my TRICARE, she wouldn't pay anything anyway. And my kids live too far from any IHS facility, for it to be practical.
Appreciate the insight.

When you get into Native Americans kicking people out of their homes and assuming property etc. Are the individuals (Tribe LEO etc) protected because of the sovereign nation?

Where did the stigma come from that “you shouldn’t even bother going to tribal court”. From your post it seems like no one is above the law.

Are these all big fish stories or do some have merit?

Edit. I’m speaking towards not letting people get their boats, vehicles etc. I’m a little fuzzy on how they can end a lease early but maybe there’s a clause they use?


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rivermobster

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Appreciate the insight.

When you get into Native Americans kicking people out of their homes and assuming property etc. Are the individuals (Tribe LEO etc) protected because of the sovereign nation?

Where did the stigma come from that “you shouldn’t even bother going to tribal court”. From your post it seems like no one is above the law.

Are these all big fish stories or do some have merit?


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If you read the article I posted, you'll see the stories have merit.

Ask the folks that HAD places at Red Rooster.
 

hallett21

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If you read the article I posted, you'll see the stories have merit.

Ask the folks that HAD places at Red Rooster.
I’ll go back and read it.

Just lately on here things seems to go way overboard/extreme

The mouth of the river is the circle of death.

No one drives over 35mph unless they’ve been sober for 48 hrs and FaceTimed with Tres Martin the night before

F450 or fuck you.

You know the usual lol

Edit: @BoatCop always gives us the straight info


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rivermobster

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I heard recently...

Big River is owned by the BLM, but run by the indians!

The BLM lease to the indians is up in eight years, but there is no agreement in place, yet.

Now this part I'm fuzzy on...

There is a school in Big River that was built awhile back. Something about the indians cut the power to it, so its standing there empty.

Part of the new lease agreement is the indians have to get the school up and running?

Gonna be interesting to see how this deal plays out...
 

hallett21

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I heard recently...

Big River is owned by the BLM, but run by the indians!

The BLM lease to the indians is up in eight years, but there is no agreement in place, yet.

Now this part I'm fuzzy on...

There is a school in Big River that was built awhile back. Something about the indians cut the power to it, so its standing there empty.

Part of the new lease agreement is the indians have to get the school up and running?

Gonna be interesting to see how this deal plays out...
Read the article.

Many questions but let’s start with.

How can they have Edison cut power and have the sewers shut off? You’re making payments as a “tenant”. How can the “landlord” just say fuck you.


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BoatCop

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When I worked for a bank near a casino/res they came in with their checks every month for 10k plus but still ran out before the end of the month and started bouncing checks every month.
California Tribes, especially, give monthly checks to their members. That's because there are relatively few members, and a massive amount of money being brought it. The Morongos have about 1,000. Cabazon around 700. CRIT has about 4,300 members. Cherokee around 300,000. The Augustine Band in Palm Springs has 8.

The Pachengas have around 465, but should be double that. When Indian gaming came around, the ruling faction of the tribe disenrolled 1/2 of the membership, based on a 50+ year old family conflict. All members descended from one tribal old lady that got fed up with them, and told the tribe to fuck off back in the 1930s were kicked out, and a lot of other families were similarly dumped, so that the other family descendants would get more of the gaming money.

But nationwide,,Tribal communities are some of the poorest in the Country. And in most of them, the Tribal leaders and their families are relatively well-off, but rank and file members are destitute. CRIT is somewhat like that, but not as bad as say, the Rosebud Sioux, Pine Ridge and others.
 

rivermobster

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Read the article.

Many questions but let’s start with.

How can they have Edison cut power and have the sewers shut off? You’re making payments as a “tenant”. How can the “landlord” just say fuck you.


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Cause they really are above the law...



Because the Constitution vested the Legislative Branch with plenary power over Indian Affairs, states have no authority over tribal governments unless expressly authorized by Congress. While federally recognized tribes generally are not subordinate to states, they can have a government-to-government relationship with these other sovereigns, as well.
 

EarpRider

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Do they have to pay the CRIT Tax that the rest of us have to pay at Safeway?
From what I read a few months after the tax passed was that the CRIT members were pissed at the CRIT leaders for passing the tax, supposedly no heads up.
No surprise that they were pissed, the tax is at all of the stores that they shop at.🤦‍♀️
 

BoatCop

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Big River IS CRIT land. Now when I say "CRIT LAND", it doesn't mean that they "own" it. Indians Tribes do not own land, other than land that they have bought OFF of their Reservations. Indian Reservations are United States Government owned land, that is held in Trust for a particular Indian Tribe or group of Tribes. The Big River portion of the CRIT Reservation (and north) is in the Congressional act that determined the Reservation boundaries.

In the case of the Colorado River Indian Tribes land north of Blythe and south of Lost Lake, IN CALIFORNIA, there is a difference of opinion on whether land west of the Colorado River is Reservation Trust land or not. The Colorado River was deemed to be the western border of the Reservation. However, the River has changed course several times since the Res was established, and it's unresolved whether the declaration forming the Res was based on the River's course at the time of declaration (1860s) or of the historical course of the River, which would have been up against the mountains west of the River.

No court has been able to determine the answer, due to CRIT declaring Sovereign Immunity at the court hearings. And Congress would have to act to set the tribal boundaries, which they have so far, failed to do.

Look at what's happening in Oklahoma, right now. The Supreme Court, last year, declared that all Indian Reservations in Oklahoma that were "disestablished" upon Oklahoma Statehood, ARE STILL Reservations. This came about from a criminal case where the State convicted an Indian, and it was appealed due to the fact that the crime and Indian were in "Indian Country" and the Supreme Court declared that once the Indian Reservations were established, they could not be disestablished. So now, about 2/3 of Oklahoma have reverted to Indian Reservation(s).
 

Boatymcboatface

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So my neighbor works for one of the tribal councils in California and shares a lot of info. She says one of the big problems for the tribes that do get checks is getting the younger generations to get a education. If they all keep getting free money no reason to get let’s say a business degree or anything along those lines so they have to outsource the management.


Also as far as CRIT she said they are a group of tribes so I looked it up and we’ll she was right about that to. Info from Uncle Google says The Colorado River Indian Tribes include four distinct Tribes - the Mohave, Chemehuevi, Hopi, and Navajo so not sure how that money gets spread or not.
 

rivermobster

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Big River IS CRIT land. Now when I say "CRIT LAND", it doesn't mean that they "own" it. Indians Tribes do not own land, other than land that they have bought OFF of their Reservations. Indian Reservations are United States Government owned land, that is held in Trust for a particular Indian Tribe or group of Tribes. The Big River portion of the CRIT Reservation (and north) is in the Congressional act that determined the Reservation boundaries.

In the case of the Colorado River Indian Tribes land north of Blythe and south of Lost Lake, IN CALIFORNIA, there is a difference of opinion on whether land west of the Colorado River is Reservation Trust land or not. The Colorado River was deemed to be the western border of the Reservation. However, the River has changed course several times since the Res was established, and it's unresolved whether the declaration forming the Res was based on the River's course at the time of declaration (1860s) or of the historical course of the River, which would have been up against the mountains west of the River.

No court has been able to determine the answer, due to CRIT declaring Sovereign Immunity at the court hearings. And Congress would have to act to set the tribal boundaries, which they have so far, failed to do.

Look at what's happening in Oklahoma, right now. The Supreme Court, last year, declared that all Indian Reservations in Oklahoma that were "disestablished" upon Oklahoma Statehood, ARE STILL Reservations. This came about from a criminal case where the State convicted an Indian, and it was appealed due to the fact that the crime and Indian were in "Indian Country" and the Supreme Court declared that once the Indian Reservations were established, they could not be disestablished. So now, about 2/3 of Oklahoma have reverted to Indian Reservation(s).
There was some talk about the river changing course and everything else you just mentioned...

It's a convoluted mess that is probably never going to be settled.

We shall see what happens in eight years!
 

Boatymcboatface

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Also to ad to what RD said if you don’t like it don’t go. They’re not the 1st or last group or company to screw people over. I’ve spent some time with some of the higher ups at the tribe she works for they always hook her up with tickets to events and have had dinner with a few higher up members. Always super friendly and generous. That said I have the worst luck at the casino doesn’t matter what game I play but I always WIN BIG at the buffet!!!! (Seafood night with whole main lobster normally eat 5 or more!)
 

El Rojo

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Big River IS CRIT land. Now when I say "CRIT LAND", it doesn't mean that they "own" it. Indians Tribes do not own land, other than land that they have bought OFF of their Reservations. Indian Reservations are United States Government owned land, that is held in Trust for a particular Indian Tribe or group of Tribes. The Big River portion of the CRIT Reservation (and north) is in the Congressional act that determined the Reservation boundaries.

In the case of the Colorado River Indian Tribes land north of Blythe and south of Lost Lake, IN CALIFORNIA, there is a difference of opinion on whether land west of the Colorado River is Reservation Trust land or not. The Colorado River was deemed to be the western border of the Reservation. However, the River has changed course several times since the Res was established, and it's unresolved whether the declaration forming the Res was based on the River's course at the time of declaration (1860s) or of the historical course of the River, which would have been up against the mountains west of the River.

No court has been able to determine the answer, due to CRIT declaring Sovereign Immunity at the court hearings. And Congress would have to act to set the tribal boundaries, which they have so far, failed to do.

Look at what's happening in Oklahoma, right now. The Supreme Court, last year, declared that all Indian Reservations in Oklahoma that were "disestablished" upon Oklahoma Statehood, ARE STILL Reservations. This came about from a criminal case where the State convicted an Indian, and it was appealed due to the fact that the crime and Indian were in "Indian Country" and the Supreme Court declared that once the Indian Reservations were established, they could not be disestablished. So now, about 2/3 of Oklahoma have reverted to Indian Reservation(s).
no politician in the immediate future will deal with the whole "west bank" issue...there has been lawyers hired from Water Wheel and Hidden Valley etc that have tried to plea the case, but the topic has been too hot for any politician to get behind...stealing more land from Native Americans? sounds like political suicide to me....
 

BoatCop

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The deal with the Big River School has nothing to do with CRIT, itself. Since the school is built on a non-reservation plot, BIA Power, which provides all power on the Res, is prevented from supplying power, due to Federal Law. And SOCAL Edison won't pay to put in the required new lines, and Needles School District doesn't want to pay to provide it. Plus with the California and Federal EPA preemption for any new septic systems, Needles School District or the State would have to build a new sewage treatment plant for the School.

So it's in limbo for the time being, but the CRIT Tribe has nothing to do with it.
 

Looking Glass

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Head Start is a Pre-Kindergarten program for low income children ANYWHERE. It's not an Indian Program. It may seem like it, as they are located on just about every Reservation, and administered through the Tribe, but any and every low income area has Head Start available. The one here in Parker, while administered by CRIT, is open to any child/family that qualifies as low income.

Well, it was NOT called Head Start then. I'll think of it, because I was in charge of Accepting their ID's for their Admission for Movies, Cafe's,Bowling and other Freebies.
 

scottchbrite

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My Indian story-
I HAD a park model trailer in Big River. I tolerated their BS because there wasn’t much choice. Where my disgust of tribal bullshit started is when I built my house in Murrieta. Ive told the story before. Basically, after the phase 1 archeological review and AB52, the Cahuilla tribe laid claim to a fucking rock. It wasn’t even a confirmed artifact. We met with some tribal elders/chiefs at the property. The rock sat where my kitchen is now. I offered to load it up on a Landol and move it to their reservation. They wanted it undisturbed. It got heated and I ended up reminding them that we played cowboys and Indians. All they were after was charging me a monitoring fee to watch us move the rock to a predetermined spot. I ended up paying a white girl from the UCR archeology dept to monitor it to make the County happy. Daily, I see the damn rock that caused a lot of stress, laugh, and often piss on it after several Coors lights.
 

rivermobster

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The deal with the Big River School has nothing to do with CRIT, itself. Since the school is built on a non-reservation plot, BIA Power, which provides all power on the Res, is prevented from supplying power, due to Federal Law. And SOCAL Edison won't pay to put in the required new lines, and Needles School District doesn't want to pay to provide it. Plus with the California and Federal EPA preemption for any new septic systems, Needles School District or the State would have to build a new sewage treatment plant for the School.

So it's in limbo for the time being, but the CRIT Tribe has nothing to do with it.
The way I heard it, it's being used as a bargaining chip for the upcoming lease.

Like I said, the details were a bit fuzzy to me. Sucks big time for the people that live there.
 
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