CA Getting Ready to Screw the Golfing Community.

[LHC Kirby]

If you own a home on or play at a local CITY/County course. If this passes (lol CA of course it will) You SHALL have it replaced in the future with residential to include low income housing and open space (for the homeless). Makes me wonder if the City of Mission Viejo knew about this before buying Casta Del Sol Golf Course back in November 2019.

SCGA.org | AB 672 Threatens Golf's Future | SCGA

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www.scga.org

 

[Boat 405]

Never gonna happen. Too much money in $$. Too many people in high places with big $$ play golf daily. You might as well try for term limits in congress. That's about the equivalent.

 

[grumpy88]

There building 1800 homes on the golf course by us in henderson. High density living in a neighborhood that is all 1/2 acre lots . Sucks

 

[3queens]

 

[77charger]

Never gonna happen. Too much money in $$. Too many people in high places with big $$ play golf daily. You might as well try for term limits in congress. That's about the equivalent.

Big money private country clubs they dont do the city/county golf courses.

 

[LHC Kirby]

Never gonna happen. Too much money in $$. Too many people in high places with big $$ play golf daily. You might as well try for term limits in congress. That's about the equivalent.

Not the same

Big money private country clubs they dont do the city/county golf courses.

EXACTLY

 

[LuauLounge]

Never gonna happen. Too much money in $$. Too many people in high places with big $$ play golf daily. You might as well try for term limits in congress. That's about the equivalent.

These are for City/County owned golf courses. Some of them have been dying on the vine due to low play.

 

[Boat 405]

I still think it's gonna be tough road even for city county courses.

 

[Hypnautic]

There building 1800 homes on the golf course by us in henderson. High density living in a neighborhood that is all 1/2 acre lots . Sucks

Black Mountain was, I think the 2nd oldest course in the valley. Many owners have or are still trying to get out before the real construction starts. There was a listing about 30 days ago—still a million asking and listed “golf course” views, even though it’s all dirt now...
That area is going to be crazy and of course no schools to handle the new families. No roads to handle all that traffic.

 

[T frog]

Black Mountain was, I think the 2nd oldest course in the valley. Many owners have or are still trying to get out before the real construction starts. There was a listing about 30 days ago—still a million asking and listed “golf course” views, even though it’s all dirt now...
That area is going to be crazy and of course no schools to handle the new families. No roads to handle all that traffic.

Was sad to see Black mountain die that slow death. My wife and I used to play that during the summer, late afternoon was 9 holes for $9.

 

[grumpy88]

Black Mountain was, I think the 2nd oldest course in the valley. Many owners have or are still trying to get out before the real construction starts. There was a listing about 30 days ago—still a million asking and listed “golf course” views, even though it’s all dirt now...
That area is going to be crazy and of course no schools to handle the new families. No roads to handle all that traffic.

The traffic is going to be nuts !

 

[Mandelon]

Because only rich white men play golf, and anything the left can do to bring down whitey is fair game.

 

[welldigger00]

I think it’s a good idea. Every time I golf, I get way too hammered. Monday was a rough one for me.


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[charred1]

Torrey Pines Municipal Golf Course...no way will that happen there.

 

[Mandelon]

AB 672, as amended, Cristina Garcia. Planning and zoning law: rezoning authorization: golf courses.
Existing law, the Planning and Zoning Law, requires that the legislative body of each county and each city adopt a comprehensive, long-term general plan for the physical development of the county and city, and specified land outside its boundaries, that includes, among other mandatory elements, a housing element. Existing law authorizes the legislative body of any county or city, pursuant to specified procedures, to adopt ordinances that, among other things, regulate the use of buildings, structures, and land as between industry, business, residences, open space, and other purposes.
Existing law, the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), requires a lead agency, as defined, to prepare, or cause to be prepared, and certify the completion of, an environmental impact report on a project that it proposes to carry out or approve that may have a significant effect on the environment or to adopt a negative declaration if it finds that the project will not have that effect. That law also requires a lead agency to prepare a mitigated negative declaration for a project that may have a significant effect on the environment if revisions in the project would avoid or mitigate that effect and there is no substantial evidence that the project, as revised, would have a significant effect on the environment.
This bill would authorize, on and after January 1, 2022, require a city, county, or city and county to rezone rezone, by the date the 6th regional housing needs assessment cycle applicable to the city, county, or city and county ends, certain sites used as a golf course to also allow for residential and open space open-space use in accordance with specified requirements. The bill would exempt any ordinance, resolution, general or specific plan amendment, or other action necessary of the city, county, or city and county to rezone a site pursuant to the bill’s provisions from CEQA. The bill would remove, with respect to a city, county, or city and county, this rezoning authorization on the date the 6th regional housing needs assessment cycle applicable to the city, county, or city and county ends. The bill would require a development on a site that is rezoned for residential and open space open-space use pursuant to the bill’s provisions to comply with specified requirements, including that a certain percentage 25 percent of all units developed on the site be available for persons and families of low income for a period of no less than at least 45 years for owner-occupied units and at least 55 years, years for rental units, and that a certain unit per acre density be met, and that a skilled and trained workforce is used to complete the development. met. By expanding the crime of perjury and by imposing additional duties on local officials, the bill would impose a state-mandated local program.
The bill would include findings that changes proposed by this bill address a matter of statewide concern rather than a municipal affair and, therefore, apply to all cities, including charter cities.
The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for specified reasons.
DIGEST KEY
Vote: majority Appropriation: no Fiscal Committee: noyes Local Program: noyes
BILL TEXT

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1.
Section 65863.14 is added to the Government Code, to read:

65863.14.
(a) (1) On and after January 1, 2022, a A city, county, or city and county is authorized to shall rezone sites used as a golf course to also allow for residential and open space use open-space use, in accordance with subdivision (b). (b), if any of the following apply:
(A) The golf course is in a park-poor area.
(B) The golf course is owned by the city, county, or city and county, and the golf course is funded by moneys from the city, county, or city and county.
(C) The golf course is in a high-density area.
(2) Any ordinance, resolution, general or specific plan amendment, or other action necessary of the city, county, or city and county to rezone a site pursuant to paragraph (1) shall not be considered a “project” for purposes of Section 21065 of the Public Resources Code.
(b) Notwithstanding any other law, development on a site that is rezoned for residential and open space open-space use pursuant to subdivision (a) shall comply with at least all of the following requirements:
(1) (A)In counties where the countywide median household income is over one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000), 25 Twenty-five percent of all units developed on the site shall be continuously available for at affordable rent or housing cost to persons and families of low income, as defined in Section 50093 of the Health and Safety Code, income for a period of no less than at least 45 years for owner-occupied units and 55 years. years for rental units. The city, county, or city and county shall ensure this requirement is satisfied with a land use restriction or covenant recorded on the land. recorded deed restrictions.
(B)In counties where the countywide median household income is one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) or less, the unit affordability percentage in subparagraph (A) shall be 30 percent.

(2) For-sale units that are subject to the requirements of paragraph (1) shall be subject to an equity sharing agreement.
(2)(A)

(3) In counties where the countywide median household income is over one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000), 15 Fifteen percent of the site shall be designated and developed for continuous, open space open-space use.
(B)In counties where the countywide median household income is one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) or less, the open space percentage in subparagraph (A) shall be 10 percent.

(3)

(4) A minimum of 15 dwelling units shall be developed per acre designated for residential use, unless the city’s, county’s, or city and county’s existing maximum density for the land use designation is less than 15 units per acre, in which case the number of dwelling units per acre necessary to meet the maximum density allowable shall be developed.
(4)(A)The development shall be completed by a skilled and trained workforce. For purposes of fulfilling this requirement, the development proponent shall enter into a project labor agreement that binds all contractors and subcontractors at every tier performing work on the project to use a skilled and trained workforce.

(B)For purposes of this paragraph, both of the following definitions apply:

(i)“Project labor agreement” has the same meaning as set forth in paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 2500 of the Public Contract Code.

(ii)“Skilled and trained workforce” has the same meaning as set forth in Chapter 2.9 (commencing with Section 2600) of Part 1 of Division 2 of the Public Contract Code.

(c) Subdivision (a) shall be inoperative, with respect to a A city, county, or city and county, on county shall comply with subdivision (a) by the date the sixth regional housing needs assessment cycle applicable to the city, county, or city and county ends.
(d) For purposes of this section, “persons and families of low income” shall have the same meaning as defined in Section 50093 of the Health and Safety Code.

SEC. 2.
The Legislature finds and declares that Section 1 of this act adding Section 65863.14 to the Government Code addresses a matter of statewide concern rather than a municipal affair as that term is used in Section 5 of Article XI of the California Constitution. Therefore, Section 1 of this act applies to all cities, including charter cities.
SEC. 3.
No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution because a local agency or school district has the authority to levy service charges, fees, or assessments sufficient to pay for the program or level of service mandated by this act or because costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school district will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the meaning of Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution.



As I read through it, I am thinking this was authored by developers who have purchased failing courses. I know of four courses here in San Diego County that were private courses, but they were purchased and fallowed. The new owner is hoping to build homes.....this may be the doing of folks like him. When reading this I was thinking muni courses.... but this may be a back door way to get the private land rezoned from golf to residential.

 

[TimeBandit]

Granted, mostly old white guys play golf.

A Japanese just won the Masters.

Tiger woods can check two boxes, neither being white.

It already happened to small airports, golf courses are next. Pilots are mostly old white guys too.

Santa Monica Airport closes for good in a few years... and just to the west is a golf course they would love to develop.

Developers have deep pockets, politicians are money whores.

We don't stand a chance.

 

[nowski]

I have a good buddy that's in the golf business. Besides the other B.S. issues he's dealt with I'm wondering how this drought is going to play out in keeping the courses watered. Play through guy's, play through...

 

[MSum661]

May or may not be related but just hours ago a federal judge ordered the city & county of los angeles to find shelter for all unhoused residents of skid row within "180 days". Should be interesting to see if this same judge works through other problem cities in cali as well. Regardless, cali residents will be opening up their wallets to some degree.

L.A. ordered by judge to provide shelter for entire homeless population on Skid Row by fall

A federal judge overseeing a sweeping lawsuit about homelessness in Los Angeles on Tuesday ordered the city and county to find shelter for all unhoused residents of Skid Row within 180 days and aud…

ktla.com

 

[ChumpChange]

As I read through it, I am thinking this was authored by developers who have purchased failing courses. I know of four courses here in San Diego County that were private courses, but they were purchased and fallowed. The new owner is hoping to build homes.....this may be the doing of folks like him. When reading this I was thinking muni courses.... but this may be a back door way to get the private land rezoned from golf to residential.

Yup. Happened in Chino Hills with Velano and La Verne with Sierra La Verne Country Club. And both happened to be purchased by the same developer who killed the courses and hold the neighbors hostage with unkept open areas.

 

[ChumpChange]

These are for City/County owned golf courses. Some of them have been dying on the vine due to low play.

Maybe PreCovid but since Covid and the reduction of tee times from every 7 minutes to 10 minutes, the muni courses around me are packed.

 

[Taboma]

Yup. Happened in Chino Hills with Velano and La Verne with Sierra La Verne Country Club. And both happened to be purchased by the same developer who killed the courses and hold the neighbors hostage with unkept open areas.

Vellano course closed ??
Damn, doing all the electrical infrastructure, pump houses, sewer lifts, that job was a friggin mess to sort out because the original developer went belly up.
This left house builders Barratt, Shea and Brookfield in a pickle, because some already had homes done and sold but Chino Hills would allow any occupancy until all the development work, including parks and mitigation areas were completed per plans. Hence, the builders ended up having kick in a bunch more money to pay the subs, so the homes could continue to be sold and occupied. It was a real stand-off shit show for awhile.
A ton of that infrastructure, like water pumping stations and booster pumps, was all for the golf course which when completed was beautiful.
Chino Hills wouldn't even allow occupancy until all the individual gate houses were completed, landscaped and approved.
I finished that job, then the Fusion Reactor Project in Foothill Ranch, by then the economy had shit the bed and it was time for me to ride off into the retirement sunset.

I'm really sorry to hear that beautiful course closed, the amount of money that went into it was staggering, in part because of all the elevation changes requiring all the pumping and pressure boosting.

 

[Mandelon]

The language also seems to refer to city or county owned courses that need city or county funding. A packed muni course will generate money, so the closure option should not apply. Although poor management could make even a successful course lose money. I bet most municipalities would be happier with a golf course than more housing.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

I’m in the golf business and courses are killing it! Most courses that closed needed to close golf was way over built during the housing boom and the tiger woods effect. Golf courses are paying way over for construction/renovations right now. The guys on the construction renovation side are slammed! Over bidding on everything because some are hoping they don’t get the job as that are just to busy!

 

[lf2]

They did this in Brea years ago took part of Birch hills golf course and built low income housing on it.

 

[Bobby V]

They did this in Brea years ago took part of Birch hills golf course and built low income housing on it.

Its still open and has 18 holes. They redesigned a few holes around the apartments.

 

[nowski]

A golf course doesn't survive on green fee's and range balls alone. So the course and driving ranges are packed but how's the rest of the business doing? There's the bar, restaurant, snack shop / grill, pro shop, facility for weddings and quinceanera's, are they profitable? Then there's the staff to make it all happen and don't forget about the grounds keeper and maintenance crew, it's way more complex than one may think. I'm pretty sure KevinR knows more about the big picture and the complexity of the day to day business. When it came to golf I took the easy route, I just played the game...

 

[ChumpChange]

Vellano course closed ??
Damn, doing all the electrical infrastructure, pump houses, sewer lifts, that job was a friggin mess to sort out because the original developer went belly up.
This left house builders Barratt, Shea and Brookfield in a pickle, because some already had homes done and sold but Chino Hills would allow any occupancy until all the development work, including parks and mitigation areas were completed per plans. Hence, the builders ended up having kick in a bunch more money to pay the subs, so the homes could continue to be sold and occupied. It was a real stand-off shit show for awhile.
A ton of that infrastructure, like water pumping stations and booster pumps, was all for the golf course which when completed was beautiful.
Chino Hills wouldn't even allow occupancy until all the individual gate houses were completed, landscaped and approved.
I finished that job, then the Fusion Reactor Project in Foothill Ranch, by then the economy had shit the bed and it was time for me to ride off into the retirement sunset.

I'm really sorry to hear that beautiful course closed, the amount of money that went into it was staggering, in part because of all the elevation changes requiring all the pumping and pressure boosting.

Yep. Closed. And the first thing the developer who bought it did was rip out all the irrigation lines so there was no going back. Some crazy stories about that fight if you Google it.

 

[Boat 405]

Torrey Pines Municipal Golf Course...no way will that happen there.

I live very close to there and that was what first came to my mind.

 

[ChumpChange]

I live very close to there and that was what first came to my mind.

I think I read somewhere back in the day that Torrey’s profit covers all other municipal course losses in San Diego County.

 

[Taboma]

Yep. Closed. And the first thing the developer who bought it did was rip out all the irrigation lines so there was no going back. Some crazy stories about that fight if you Google it.

That's crazy to rip all that out. To develop that into homes will be HUGELY expensive, because I can't see how any of the existing could be utilized to service it. Some of the irrigation might, but that system wasn't designed to be sanitary for human consumption. Curious I checked out google and that course sure does look brown. I'll have to google the legal fight you referenced.
Numerous courses have closed up here in San Diego area as well, with similar battles being waged.

 

[Waffles]

Because only rich white men play golf, and anything the left can do to bring down whitey is fair game.

The veteranos are gonna be pissed foo

 

[Boatymcboatface]

A golf course doesn't survive on green fee's and range balls alone. So the course and driving ranges are packed but how's the rest of the business doing? There's the bar, restaurant, snack shop / grill, pro shop, facility for weddings and quinceanera's, are they profitable? Then there's the staff to make it all happen and don't forget about the grounds keeper and maintenance crew, it's way more complex than one may think. I'm pretty sure KevinR knows more about the big picture and the complexity of the day to day business. When it came to golf I took the easy route, I just played the game...

Not true I’ve got a few courses that within the 1st three months of being reopened made up for all the lost revenue! They did no weddings no meetings and the only thing open was the course and covered all the lost Revenue with just range, green fees and cart fees.

 

[Waffles]

Granted, mostly old white guys play golf.

Not anymore....
While you might not see blacks or beans dropping a bill or two at Black Gold or Oak Quarry, the game has changed significantly.
I whole heartily agree with some of the sentiment above. This wont affect big name greens. Itll affect those like Willowick, Meadowlark, Baker et al that cater to......you guessed it, Minorities.

 

[LowRiver2]

I Live next to the Hacienda course
I know who golfs there, Caucasian is not the majority golfing, I’ll leave it at that.
Matrix Oil lines run through there, wonder if the new density home owners will all get small monthly oil money checks or if that $ would go to the HOA if they end up being condos? Lol

 

[TomD]

Look at the bright side, there will be plenty of caddies.

 

[Racey]

I still think it's gonna be tough road even for city county courses.

Lol, go back 25 years in CA and think about all the "That'll never happen" shit they have actually made happen

 

[nowski]

Not true I’ve got a few courses that within the 1st three months of being reopened made up for all the lost revenue! They did no weddings no meetings and the only thing open was the course and covered all the lost Revenue with just range, green fees and cart fees.

So while the courses were closed and no revenue coming in how did you cover the overhead? The courses still needed to be maintained whether opened or closed otherwise you'd end up with another out of control weed patch like Vellano. I'm not sure what that overhead cost would be but I'll bet it's up there...

 

[Ziggy]

Home construction begins at site of former Escondido Country Club

Project was entangled for nearly seven years in legal challenges

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

 

[Taboma]

Home construction begins at site of former Escondido Country Club

Project was entangled for nearly seven years in legal challenges

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

If I recall, the old clubhouse was set on fire more than once. I noticed on google the other day what was once a beautiful old course up in Rancho Bernardo was closed, dead and brown. My fishing buddy's mom, who was an avid golfer lived backed up to it, amazing views from her back patio, now just dead grass and trees. At least she'd passed away and the house was sold prior to it being shuttered, but the owners now are screwed.

This is bound to have some serious impact on the future sales prices of homes located on courses that are still operational, just the uncertainty.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

VERY topical in a local fight between NIMBYs in Sand Canyon and Steve Kim, owner of the Sand Canyon Country Club
State law would override local authority. overreach anyone?

 

[liquid addiction]

Donald Trump loves to play golf. Just sayin

 

[Ziggy]

If I recall, the old clubhouse was set on fire more than once. I noticed on google the other day what was once a beautiful old course up in Rancho Bernardo was closed, dead and brown. My fishing buddy's mom, who was an avid golfer lived backed up to it, amazing views from her back patio, now just dead grass and trees. At least she'd passed away and the house was sold prior to it being shuttered, but the owners now are screwed.

This is bound to have some serious impact on the future sales prices of homes located on courses that are still operational, just the uncertainty.

The Course in Bonsall was essentially turned back into an ecological preserve, wetlands, bird sanctuary, aka return to nature. Made sense being it was directly adjacent to San Luis Rey river. That was a fun yet difficult test of your golfing skills course.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

So while the courses were closed and no revenue coming in how did you cover the overhead? The courses still needed to be maintained whether opened or closed otherwise you'd end up with another out of control weed patch like Vellano. I'm not sure what that overhead cost would be but I'll bet it's up there...

It’s not cheap most public courses Have a million plus maintenance budget per year and most of that is typically water cost and labor. I am a former golf course superintendent and worked at every spectrum of course from high end private to city/county courses and believe it or not but the courses that do the best during a boom or recession are the daily fee courses. The city course I worked at during the housing bust in 08 made over 3.5 million a year for the two years I was there the the middle of the bust. People stopped driving to corona to pay $125 a round at the new courses and the people that had memberships at courses like the retreat dropped out and played local. Right now some private clubs are trying to figure out a way to reduce members!

 

[Mandelon]

Bonsall, that was San Luis Rey Downs? I went and played on it's last day, The Double Tree aka Carmel Highland next to 15 freeway in Rancho Bernardo is now a dry weed patch, the Escondido Country Club which has been an ongoing battle as posted above, and then also Carmel Mountain Ranch. I played that on its last day too. Found a few good deals in the pro shop, LOL. The company that bought it still does wedding and events at the clubhouse, but plan to build houses on the fairways. In Poway, Stoneridge has also closed and they are trying to build homes. That course was OK, but you could tell it was struggling. Down in Chula Vista, Salt Creek has closed down as well. That place was always dry. They had grand plans for the clubhouse never got past the double wide mobile home stage.

 

[Mandelon]

Future of remaining Bonsall golf land up in air

With more than two-thirds of the former San Luis Rey Downs golf course in Bonsall now purchased for the county’s planned river park, neighbors are wondering what will happen to the rest of the property.

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

 

[Cdog]

I've always said a golf course is a waste of a perfect race track space.

 

[Bobby V]

I've always said a golf course is a waste of a perfect race track space.

Racing golf carts is part of the fun in playing.

 

[76 Southwind]

Isn't there a city owned golf course between desert center and Blythe? Let them build the low housing out there. Complete B.S.

 

[boatnam2]

I played a few courses off the 60 and 57 past few weeks and the only old white guys i seen was the one working the desk and myself.

 

[Cdog]

I played a few courses off the 60 and 57 past few weeks and the only old white guys i seen was the one working the desk and myself.

That’s most of California now days. Lol!!