Cactus RV - When the house of cards falls..

[Ziggy]

If Cactus is still a viable operation then two scenarios could be at play here.
Cactus didn't pay the flooring for these boats/rvs and the bank comes and gets its belongings back.
Or
Cactus cancelled its franchise agreement with the brand and they've come to get the inventory.
.
Based on the one fact that a "customers" vessel was taken I'd lean more towards scenario 1.

 

[hallett21]

If Cactus is still a viable operation then two scenarios could be at play here.
Cactus didn't pay the flooring for these boats/rvs and the bank comes and gets its belongings back.
Or
Cactus cancelled its franchise agreement with the brand and they've come to get the inventory.
.
Based on the one fact that a "customers" vessel was taken I'd lean more towards scenario 1.

Would the bank call the sheriff in those scenarios just as a precaution?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ziggy]

Would the bank call the sheriff in those scenarios just as a precaution?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To reinforce their authority to take the vehicles most likely. If something totally shady was going on there'd be chains on all the doors.
That's why I said if they are still a "viable operation".

 

[ChumpChange]

Also of point. Some manufacturers have arrangements with financial institutions so there may be multiple flooring companies, different for each brand at the dealership. So being out of trust with one company doesn’t necessarily put you out of business...immediately.

 

[hallett21]

Well if nothing else I’ve learned a lot about dealership inventory and how they pay for it lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Havasu blue label]

The boat co pulled there product moved on to a more productive dealership simple stop assuming every business is not reputable we all now it's a small town nothing better to do talk shit

 

[Moneypit]

So, anyone heard how "Tim's" court case is progressing??? And, during Repos it is not unusual to have LE standing by, in fact some LE jurisdictions require/request it...
Ray

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Telling your flooring company to pound sand isn’t a prudent business decision. At the same time, I’ve helped dealers fix issues with flooring companies and having them come in and take their floored inventory isn’t generally a rush decision.

Although you keep starting your posts with the fact that you’re not defending them, you posting highly unlikely scenarios and saying their title department is a mess isn’t gonna help your own reputation on this site. This was not just an honest mistake.

so my question is this....what was the mistake?????

 

[2Driver]

How do you operate like that and fool yourself that there will be a positive final outcome?

LOL Bernie Madoff Marine

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Also of point. Some manufacturers have arrangements with financial institutions so there may be multiple flooring companies, different for each brand at the dealership. So being out of trust with one company doesn’t necessarily put you out of business...immediately.

who said they were out of trust????pretty obvious I think I know something...….but... it could be just rumors...but,... mr ED was the one that told me...(got it from the horse's mouth)

 

[2FORCEFULL]

How do you operate like that and fool yourself that there will be a positive final outcome?

LOL Bernie Madoff Marine

operate like what????

 

[2FORCEFULL]

but, beings I was there, and seen for my self what happened...truly amazes me....

 

[2Driver]

operate like what????

Not you

 

[DRYHEAT]

who said they were out of trust????pretty obvious I think I know something...….but... it could be just rumors...but,... mr ED was the one that told me...(got it from the horse's mouth)

I’ve met a lot of Mr. Ed’s over the years that tell people what they want to hear and make it sound believable.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I’ve met a lot of Mr. Ed’s over the years that tell people what they want to hear and make it sound believable.

well,.. it's either believe them or my ly'n eye's...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

If Cactus is still a viable operation then two scenarios could be at play here.
Cactus didn't pay the flooring for these boats/rvs and the bank comes and gets its belongings back.
Or
Cactus cancelled its franchise agreement with the brand and they've come to get the inventory.
.
Based on the one fact that a "customers" vessel was taken I'd lean more towards scenario 1.

like a moth to a flame, i'm drawn to the facts...so as you just stated...the fact..."fact that a "customers" vessel was taken" you know this as fact???? so who's boat got taken,.. and I'm gonna assume you where there...?????

 

[Ziggy]

I’ve met a lot of Mr. Ed’s over the years that tell people what they want to hear and make it sound believable.

When a Mr Ed starts talking to me I turn into the 4yr old staring away at rocks on the ground. I'm no horse whisperer.
To a small degree I was a Mr Ed to my employees while in the midst of selling my BMW dealership. I know how it feels and how easy it is to just throw out BS to save face.
Hate that feeling.

 

[DRYHEAT]

well,.. it's either believe them or my ly'n eye's...

Not saying that you are right or wrong Steve, but the statement that it’s a Havasu thing is just fucking ignorant. It happens everywhere.

The sad part is, the trail of destruction of these con men leave in their wake. Good people get hurt and that’s a damn shame, no matter how much due diligence you do sometimes Good people get screwed.

 

[guest hs]

After being involved in the marine industry now for 30 years I have seen this happen before. Back in 2003 the was a business called Marine Tech in Las Vegas. Marine tech ran into financial problems and the flooring company not the boat manufacturer was on the hook for the boats and need a place to take them. We were approached by the bank that floored the boats (Larson and Centurion). We agreed to take them on a a no flooring fee agreement, just sell them when you can and pay the agreed price to the bank which was a large discount for steeping up and helping them. If memory serves me right we ended up with around 25 units. Some of the boats even had parts missing from them and the bank paid us to replace and install them for us. This was a win win for our dealership that year and one of our best profitable years to date do to this dealers failure. I can just about guarantee you that is what has happened to Cactus RV and Marine. I have already made my phone call to my Honda rep about Coach to see if we can get them.

 

[mjc]

I know one of the guys whose company went and help move stuff out yesterday. they lost the BH line of boats. And stuff was moved to a storage lots of another dealer.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

After being involved in the marine industry now for 30 years I have seen this happen before. Back in 2003 the was a business called Marine Tech in Las Vegas. Marine tech ran into financial problems and the flooring company not the boat manufacturer was on the hook for the boats and need a place to take them. We were approached by the bank that floored the boats (Larson and Centurion). We agreed to take them on a a no flooring fee agreement, just sell them when you can and pay the agreed price to the bank which was a large discount for steeping up and helping them. If memory serves me right we ended up with around 25 units. Some of the boats even had parts missing from them and the bank paid us to replace and install them for us. This was a win win for our dealership that year and one of our best profitable years to date do to this dealers failure. I can just about guarantee you that is what has happened to Cactus RV and Marine. I have already made my phone call to my Honda rep about Coach to see if we can get them.

LOL... marine tech...I was in deep on that deal... had to go get my boats before the flooring company took them...good ol Dwight,,..the old guy at your place knows me well,...and roger ended up being my BMW sales man...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Not saying that you are right or wrong Steve, but the statement that it’s a Havasu thing is just fucking ignorant. It happens everywhere.

The sad part is, the trail of destruction of these con men leave in their wake. Good people get hurt and that’s a damn shame, no matter how much due diligence you do sometimes Good people get screwed.

not really a havasu thing, but it sure pops up around hot rods, boats, and pools....the havasu thing is how people are calling me telling me that i'm not gonna get titles,.. or.. you better go get your boat... or I know for fact....

 

[guest hs]

Oh yes TJ use to run to the bank to cash his paycheck before any of the other employees so he got first dibs on what was still in their bank account lol

 

[2FORCEFULL]

After being involved in the marine industry now for 30 years I have seen this happen before. Back in 2003 the was a business called Marine Tech in Las Vegas. Marine tech ran into financial problems and the flooring company not the boat manufacturer was on the hook for the boats and need a place to take them. We were approached by the bank that floored the boats (Larson and Centurion). We agreed to take them on a a no flooring fee agreement, just sell them when you can and pay the agreed price to the bank which was a large discount for steeping up and helping them. If memory serves me right we ended up with around 25 units. Some of the boats even had parts missing from them and the bank paid us to replace and install them for us. This was a win win for our dealership that year and one of our best profitable years to date do to this dealers failure. I can just about guarantee you that is what has happened to Cactus RV and Marine. I have already made my phone call to my Honda rep about Coach to see if we can get them.

I have a coach you call sell....kinda get your feet wet...

 

[GETBOATS]

Lots of speculation here, some really good guesses, no one knows for sure except the owners of the business.

But here is how it works:

Player 1: the manufacturer, they negotiate a deal every model year with the Flooring companies, only a few of them exist. they offer the buying plan and programs the to their dealer network. the manufacturer must prove solvency/profitability to the flooring company, will cover this later. Very, Very few manufactures consign with dealers and have been paid by either the dealer or flooring company by the time the unit arrives at the dealership.

Player 2: the dealer, they negotiate with the manufacturer at the beginning of each model year and review the buying plans/flooring programs to be implemented throughout the year. The dealer must prove solvency/profitability to the flooring company for obvious reason as he is the borrower.

Player 3: the flooring company, post recession the list is very small and bank names all would recognize. these are specialized companies/banks that offer these services. This is very different than a line of credit with a local bank, not many dealers have this option. the dealer is offered a floor line to be used for each manufacturer, buys/inventories units with value up to the floor line cap. buying programs exist with promotional periods which may include free flooring, usually during the slower seasons. aged inventory can have increased interest rates over time and is paid by either the dealer or the manufacturer. curtailments that kick in at a units age as previously mentioned. the flooring company has all the power and requires the dealer to pass Financial stress tests as he is the borrower. If dealer fails to hold his end of the deal, sold and not paid for "sold out of trust", making interest payments on time and curtailments if required, the flooring company can pick up their floored inventory. when this occurs, that returned inventory, either by flooring company demand or voluntarily by the dealer, the flooring company will liquidate and file monetary damages against the dealer for the shortfall or demand that the manufacturer "buy back" the inventory. this is why the manufacturer is required to prove their financial well being even though they are not financing anything. This is why very seldom do you see small boat manufactures with available flooring for their dealer network.

unfortunately, fraud is all to common, thus the reason for floor checkers, its their job to insure the unit is at the dealership and in good condition.
If an unpaid sold unit was found at the dealership, the flooring company would ask for payment immediately, as mentioned they have all the power. there are hundred of way dealers hide what is really going on, but eventually??? very unlikely the manufacturer had anything to do with this scenario or had any part of the units being moved. However manufacturer will be involved later to buy back and liquidate inventory.

one side note, it was mentioned that flooring company holds the MSO's, not common. Imagine how that might delay the registration process having to wait for another financial institution the get the necessary document to the dealer to complete.

could type for hours on this

hopefully anyone damaged by any of this is made whole at some point.

 

[Ziggy]

like a moth to a flame, i'm drawn to the facts...so as you just stated...the fact..."fact that a "customers" vessel was taken" you know this as fact???? so who's boat got taken,.. and I'm gonna assume you where there...?????

I took to heart a few other posts stating this as fact.......my bad. All it did was make me lean in a particular direction of the two scenarios I can envision. If in fact Cactus is open for biz as usual there are reasons we peasants will never know. Anything they tell us is going to sugarcoat the real truth, full disclosure isn't a requirement. If he really is telling the truth it's an uphill battle to convince the general public.....the keyboard warrior public likes to spout off as if they are experts about other people businesses.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Oh yes TJ use to run to the bank to cash his paycheck before any of the other employees so he got first dibs on what was still in their bank account lol

what happened to Anderson and plow??? they were at the charlston location, and then out in Henderson..I ended up in handcuffs that day....lol... but they let me go...

 

[Ziggy]

Lots of speculation here, some really good guesses, no one knows for sure except the owners of the business.

But here is how it works:

Player 1: the manufacturer, they negotiate a deal every model year with the Flooring companies, only a few of them exist. they offer the buying plan and programs the to their dealer network. the manufacturer must prove solvency/profitability to the flooring company, will cover this later. Very, Very few manufactures consign with dealers and have been paid by either the dealer or flooring company by the time the unit arrives at the dealership.

Player 2: the dealer, they negotiate with the manufacturer at the beginning of each model year and review the buying plans/flooring programs to be implemented throughout the year. The dealer must prove solvency/profitability to the flooring company for obvious reason as he is the borrower.

Player 3: the flooring company, post recession the list is very small and bank names all would recognize. these are specialized companies/banks that offer these services. This is very different than a line of credit with a local bank, not many dealers have this option. the dealer is offered a floor line to be used for each manufacturer, buys/inventories units with value up to the floor line cap. buying programs exist with promotional periods which may include free flooring, usually during the slower seasons. aged inventory can have increased interest rates over time and is paid by either the dealer or the manufacturer. curtailments that kick in at a units age as previously mentioned. the flooring company has all the power and requires the dealer to pass Financial stress tests as he is the borrower. If dealer fails to hold his end of the deal, sold and not paid for "sold out of trust", making interest payments on time and curtailments if required, the flooring company can pick up their floored inventory. when this occurs, that returned inventory, either by flooring company demand or voluntarily by the dealer, the flooring company will liquidate and file monetary damages against the dealer for the shortfall or demand that the manufacturer "buy back" the inventory. this is why the manufacturer is required to prove their financial well being even though they are not financing anything. This is why very seldom do you see small boat manufactures with available flooring for their dealer network.

unfortunately, fraud is all to common, thus the reason for floor checkers, its their job to insure the unit is at the dealership and in good condition.
If an unpaid sold unit was found at the dealership, the flooring company would ask for payment immediately, as mentioned they have all the power. there are hundred of way dealers hide what is really going on, but eventually??? very unlikely the manufacturer had anything to do with this scenario or had any part of the units being moved. However manufacturer will be involved later to buy back and liquidate inventory.

one side note, it was mentioned that flooring company holds the MSO's, not common. Imagine how that might delay the registration process having to wait for another financial institution the get the necessary document to the dealer to complete.

could type for hours on this

hopefully anyone damaged by any of this is made whole at some point.

I was in possession of MSO's of all my floored inventory.
We had X number of days to payoff the flooring of a sold car.
The financial institutions were very thorough on their monthly checks.

 

[guest hs]

what happened to Anderson and plow??? they were at the charlston location, and then out in Henderson..I ended up in handcuffs that day....lol... but they let me go...

Jeff Anderson ruined more dealerships in the Vegas/Henderson area then I care to disclose and Ploy destroyed a brand new 47 Fountain on a test drive with clients. The boat was so bad you could drive a full size van through the bow of it! I will let you decide what happened to him.

 

[Singleton]

Why is everyone going after @2FORCEFULL? Good old @RiverDave started this thread stating a fact then then hearsay (purchased boat in service being taken). Yet no one is asking RD to backup his hearsay, yet everyone is jumping on Steve.

End of day a flooring company came in and took their inventory off the lot. The first post makes it seem like shady business practices, but it could be a couple different things. With the history in Havasu, we all think shady business practice. If it is not shady business practices, the business social media reputation is impacted by this thread alone.

 

[ChumpChange]

The boat co pulled there product moved on to a more productive dealership simple stop assuming every business is not reputable we all now it's a small town nothing better to do talk shit

Seems costly.

who said they were out of trust????pretty obvious I think I know something...….but... it could be just rumors...but,... mr ED was the one that told me...(got it from the horse's mouth)

lol. One thing I know is that when there’s generally nothing wrong, the business owners try to squash the rumors pretty quick, not let customers talk in circles about what they think they know.

So if you know, because you were there, and there is nothing wrong except for a lost line of boats/rv’s, why aren’t you defending them?

 

[ChumpChange]

I know one of the guys whose company went and help move stuff out yesterday. they lost the BH line of boats. And stuff was moved to a storage lots of another dealer.

So the Sheriff was needed?

 

[ChumpChange]

Why is everyone going after @2FORCEFULL? Good old @RiverDave started this thread stating a fact then then hearsay (purchased boat in service being taken). Yet no one is asking RD to backup his hearsay, yet everyone is jumping on Steve.

End of day a flooring company came in and took their inventory off the lot. The first post makes it seem like shady business practices, but it could be a couple different things. With the history in Havasu, we all think shady business practice. If it is not shady business practices, the business social media reputation is impacted by this thread alone.

Per @mjc it wasn’t the flooring company but the manufacturer coming in to move it to a more productive dealership.

 

[Singleton]

Per @mjc it wasn’t the flooring company but the manufacturer coming in to move it to a more productive dealership.

I called it yesterday that BH pulled the inventory and it would be on another dealer lot soon.
Who pulled it (MFG or Flooring Company) does not impact me, but my gut says the flooring company was involved.

Back in my external financial statement audit days, BH (parent) was one of my customers. Had to independently audit flooring audits for a month (PIA) and I always had security with me when walking onto a dealership lot.

 

[RVR SWPR]

Somebody gotta be going to PetSmart today,Walmart.Cactus open or not open today?

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Is there any relationship between Havasu Cactus RV and Marine and the 2 Cactus RV here in Tucson?

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

 

[ChumpChange]

I called it yesterday that BH pulled the inventory and it would be on another dealer lot soon.
Who pulled it (MFG or Flooring Company) does not impact me, but my gut says the flooring company was involved.

Back in my external financial statement audit days, BH (parent) was one of my customers. Had to independently audit flooring audits for a month (PIA) and I always had security with me when walking onto a dealership lot.

Thread would’ve gone a lot different with that explanation. It would be a non conversation starter.

 

[rvrrun]

Maybe the higher end boats, but from what I heard, the cheap ones are rigged by the dealer. Maybe not the toons or interior, but gauges, throttle, stereo, motor...etc....are done in the back of the dealer.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

When we were there a Coach pontoon with logs, deck, railings and nothing else but big boxes of parts had just arrived and was waiting assembly. I don't know if they do it with all the brands they carry but that one they had to build.

 

[DWC]

A lot of passion around drag boats and toon dealerships these days. It usually doesn't get sideways until winter.

I’ll hold my judgement/sentencing in the Toon case until i hear of someone truly getting screwed. Seems like the owners tried to take advantage of the hottest trend in boating, when boat sales were on fire in one of the fastest growing cities. Based on the location, it didn’t seem like they were in it for the long haul. I don’t blame them anymore than someone who opened a video store in the 80’s, Yogurt in the 90’s, Juice in 2000 or Poke spot now. The lenders gave money and l the manufacturers delivered boats. If they got burned that’s on them.
If i were you 2FF, I’d step aside and let the group go. Doesn’t surprise me that you’d back them up based on your experiences. You can’t care more about the defense than those involved. Just my 2cents.

 

[Singleton]

Is there any relationship between Havasu Cactus RV and Marine and the 2 Cactus RV here in Tucson?

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

No, was posted a few pages ago

 

[Singleton]

Thread would’ve gone a lot different with that explanation. It would be a non conversation starter.

With this group, folks would still wonder why the BH got pulled

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Seems costly.



lol. One thing I know is that when there’s generally nothing wrong, the business owners try to squash the rumors pretty quick, not let customers talk in circles about what they think they know.

So if you know, because you were there, and there is nothing wrong except for a lost line of boats/rv’s, why aren’t you defending them?

LOL... I already got stalkers and people threat'n me,.. I'm gonna try to just defend myself...but here's what I know, and what happened while I was there.. I went to cactus,... I've been try'n to buy the Suzuki 350 hp toon from scott...so I stopped by... got there about 8:30 , they open at 9am.... so I went to mc donalds….came back about 8:55,..mean while... I get a call from scott… he tells me he's left and dissolved the partner ship......so I need to talk to todd...girl at cactus says yes, tod is in town.. on his way...were all at the front door talking...with a 15 minute time span,.. must have been 20 people come throught the front door, and out in the lot people climbing in and out of boats...a cou[ple minutes later... in walks 2 sherrifs….and a guy with a clip board....they ask for todd,... but wanted to also talk to who ever was incharge…..amagine a herd of deer standing in the middle of the road and head lights shine on them...first the look, the im not in charge of anything..and everybody scurrys off different dirrections.. so....first though... I need to get out of here.,.. and then, damn I wanna talk to todd...so I wait around..so try'n not to ease drop......ok, that's a lie,... I kinda stand where I could hear what was going on.. the one guy, had a list, and he said....who put the blue tape on all these units,.. one of the workers said , we maked your stuff yesterday.....so right by the door was a red toon... the guy with the clip board says, this is one of the boats..... the sherrif said... well, the trailer and the motor is not on the list...about then the sales guy says... that boat was sold 2 weeks ago...so that's probley the one in question boat that I know of..... so.... I decide, probley seen more than I needed to...so I head back to vegas...on the vegas side of kingmen, I get a call from RD,..I tell him what I saw,.. and my concern about the guys boat...RD say, I gotta go....about 15 minutes latter.... RD calls me and starts telling me what really happened...so.... where i'm at,... what happened to the red boat on the show room???

 

[D19]

Well if nothing else I’ve learned a lot about dealership inventory and how they pay for it lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know a guy in floor plan financing. He said the biggest red flag is when cars sit on the lot longer than 45 days. He was telling me about an audit they did where they went to dealer to pull inventory and they couldn't find all the cars on the lot or overflow lot. Three of them turned up at the dealership owner's house. The owner's wife and kids were driving them. "Demo cars".

 

[guest hs]

I saw the writing on the wall when they didn’t or couldn’t participate in this years spring boat show and went against the grain and tried their own show mind you on the same weekend in the channel.

 

[Lavey29]

All you have to do is read post 57 and the situation that the business created for that poor gentleman and his boat. If that doesn't allow you to form an opinion on the integrity of the business practice there then nothing will. If the BH product line was removed you can rest assured that the other manufacturer lines are not far behind from being pulled in my opinion. 100 plus boats are RVs sitting in the parking lot month after month. Toons sitting on the asphalt month after month tells the story quite clearly.

 

[guest hs]

All you have to do is read post 57 and the situation that the business created for that poor gentleman and his boat. If that doesn't allow you to form an opinion on the integrity of the business practice there then nothing will. If the BH product line was removed you can rest assured that the other manufacturer lines are not far behind from being pulled in my opinion. 100 plus boats are RVs sitting in the parking lot month after month. Toons sitting on the asphalt month after month tells the story quite clearly.

Yah but they don’t get dirty because they sell 54 units a month!

 

[RCDave]

Where there's smoke, there's fire. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Dealing with reputable trust worthy boat entities is always good policy

 

[RCDave]

Yah but they don’t get dirty because they sell 54 units a month!

Sellng that volume should yield good cash flow and business stability, if the business strategy was sound...

 

[pronstar]

Sellng that volume should yield good cash flow and business stability, if the business strategy was sound...

Maybe he sold each one at a loss, and was hoping to make up for it with volume [emoji12][emoji90]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[RVR SWPR]

NEXT UP : The Landlord.