Can You Fix It

[Go-Fly]

How long can you afford to fix and drive a car or truck?

Had this conversation yesterday and it is still going on this morning. My position is, there's a point where you start to lose reliability and you worry if you can make it to your next destination. Then you start calling friends and family to take you or come get you. There is a cost to maintain an automobile and you need to be honest about it regardless of your income. Here's where it went bad for me. I believe if you can't afford to maintain a car, you shouldn't have one. The more miles you put on a car, the more expensive the repairs become. Just because you can buy a cheap used car, doesn't mean you can afford to keep it running over any length of time. Thoughts?

 

[Yellowboat]

Then about 75% of the use cant aford a car.

Have you seen how much parts are these days?

Thats like saying if you can not aford to repalce a motor in an airplane you can not aford an airplane. Not many people can drop 50k++++ on a new motor. While i understand the statement, there are very few that can aford to do that. Of those that can even fewer can just write a check

 

[TPC]

They were making cars and trucks better for a while there.
I think that’s changed.

Our DIL delivered our grandson so we bought her a new CRV. She had no transportation.
Didn’t get the extended warranty because it’s a Honda.

Amazed how it’s needed a starter, alternator, broken sway bar, lousy trans and water pump and a list of other issues.
Not the dealer cheating her, that stuff is really failing.

Crap you never heard of in a car with under 40k miles. Especially Honda.
NFW she coulda paid for any of it.
That’s our grandson she’s toting around so I write the checks after first making sure it’s really gone south.

Kias look pretty good considering all that. Plus the 100k warranty.

 

[River Runnin]

Got a new 03! (the end of 02) ... Haven't even changed the plugs in it yet!

 

[Go-Fly]

Then about 75% of the use cant aford a car.

Have you seen how much parts are these days?

Thats like saying if you can not aford to repalce a motor in an airplane you can not aford an airplane. Not many people can drop 50k++++ on a new motor. While i understand the statement, there are very few that can aford to do that. Of those that can even fewer can just write a check

This is what I can't get my head around. I can afford to buy it but, I can't afford to fix it. What is the plan when it breaks down? This also goes for boats. I can't tell you how many people at the marina are making payments on a yacht that they can't afford fix. So it just sits there tied to the dock.

 

[TPC]

BTW:
Daughters Toyota water pump grenaded.
Used to run on a 22mm shaft and they never failed on any Toyota we owned. Ever.

Now a 12 mm pencil shaft and located in a 4 hour labor location.
The whole front of the engine accessories and cooling + a/c has to come out.

 

[bonesfab]

That’s why I drive old shit. Not as complex and I can fix it. Or I just grad another set of keys and drive the next one. For what new junk costs I can have 5-6 cool beaters.

 

[Yellowboat]

This is what I can't get my head around. I can afford to buy it but, I can't afford to fix it. What is the plan when it breaks down? This also goes for boats. I can't tell you how many people at the marina are making payments on a yacht that they can't afford fix. So it just sits there tied to the dock.

Toys are different than transportation. I bet half of rdp could not afford to repalce thier current motor in thier boat. Then again, i dont make payments on stuff that is not work relayed. I pay cash other than for a house. Once again, very few can afford basic stuff for thier house. Very few have 2500 to replace a water heater, or 10k for an hvac system. Let alone 30k for a reroof.

 

[mesquito_creek]

The largest expense of a new car is depreciation, taxes, registration and insurance. These expenses provide zero value to you. They run in the 10s of thousands of dollars financed at 3+ percent interest. To make the arguement you can't afford to fix a used car that requires 3,4 or 5 thousand dollars in repairs is not being honest with your wallet.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Anything short of an engine or trans is going to get fixed.

Since we paid off my Acadia we've spent about 4K in repair bills over about 5 years, or about 9 months worth of payments on a new one. So I'm money ahead.

I have a lineman at work that makes bank and drives POS cars. Buys them for cash and keeps them running until something major happens and then sells them off for parts. So it is all how you view your money.

 

[Motor Boater]

I love old cars. I have an 07 Lexus that I would drive across country right now. I talked to a friend last night that said their car is in the shop once a month. They have to rent a car anytime they go out of town. I thought that was a little rediculous.

 

[Yellowboat]

I love old cars. I have an 07 Lexus that I would drive across country right now. I talked to a friend last night that said their car is in the shop once a month. They have to rent a car anytime they go out of town. I thought that was a little rediculous.

i rent a car every time i go out of town.

I get an almost new car and if something happens they bring me a new one. Twice i have been 500+ miles from home and had something happen. Both timea it was out side of my control. One was they crowbared the trunk, the other was i was hit. Both times 1 call and had a new car with in a couple hours.

 

[lebel409]

In High School, when gas was 27.9 a gallon, drivers ed made us go over the cost of driving. When asked everyone figured the price of gas @ 12 miles to the gallon...maybe optomistic given the displacement and the state of tune of our $600 cars... then they added insurance, and tires, and brakes and tuneups, wear and tear, engine rebuild at 80K. Price went from maybe $.03 to over $1.00 a mile.

So today, I see cars costing more here, less there. Tune ups? 12K mile bias ply tires, drum brakes? Gone. Three bolt water pumps? Gone. 80K engine rebuild gone.

So pretty close to the same as High School...cheaper to drive it until it breaks, then replace it unless it's really simple.

 

[River Runnin]

50K? -- 80K? engines! What kind of fkn rigs y'all drive'n?

 

[Wheeler]

50K? -- 80K? engines! What kind of fkn rigs y'all drive'n?

Must be Lexuits.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

50K? -- 80K? engines! What kind of fkn rigs y'all drive'n?

It'd be 6 or 7k to replace the engine in my car and I never have trusted rebuilt transmissions, let alone the cost. At that point I'll cut bait, take the money I can get for the carcass and the money I spent on a repair and put it down on a new car and enjoy things like warranty and such till it's paid off. Then start the accounting sheet all over again.

 

[lbhsbz]

The newest vehicle I own is the wife's 2003 4runner that I bought with a bad engine for $1500...did the work myself and rebuilt/repaired it and its been a good car for 3 or so years now.
Any amount of money for repairs is worth it IMO. My truck is worth about 8K. If I needed to have a shop replace the engine, I’m betting it would run around 7K, and I would do it. 7K is about 4 months of payments on a new truck after taxes and fees...but if you fix it, you don’t give the .gov 4-5K in taxes and you don’t have to make those payments for 5 years.

A vehicle will rarely leave you on the side of the road if you pay attention to it and fix things at the first sign of an issue rather than wait till it blows up...

About once a year I put a scope on my fuel pump to see how it looks...(GM) and replace it when the waveform starts looking shitty. I also load test batteries at every oil change so I can see if they’re starting to degrade. I do a bit of research and either replace pattern failure parts or at the very least keep them on hand for a quick repair when they do fail, and of course regularly inspect and service my vehicles. This formula has proven to work very well for me.

 

[Shlbyntro]

Really interesting topic. I agree with the OP here. I like the older vehicles I own outright myself, but I'd be lying I'd I didnt admit that they are higher maintenance and that I spend a lot of time keeping them up. It is an ongoing battle but what does make me feel good about it all is I have no car payment. When stuff breaks, I dont just fix it; I often upgrade it at the same time. I feel the same way about boats, and a lot more stuff likes breaking on those. Keep in mind that people tend to hold onto boats a lot longer than cars these days and they dont really realize the upkeep that comes with owning an older machine. For the vast majority of people I've noticed that boats seam to be ageless to them, all the mechanical and electrical systems that drive them though are not. Shit gets expensive and if I wasnt my own mechanic, I wouldnt be able to afford 3/4 of the stuff I own.

 

[TPC]

8.1 flirting with 200k miles no real repair expenses just the OEM radiator.

 

[Emac]

They were making cars and trucks better for a while there.
I think that’s changed.

Our DIL delivered our grandson so we bought her a new CRV. She had no transportation.
Didn’t get the extended warranty because it’s a Honda.

Amazed how it’s needed a starter, alternator, broken sway bar, lousy trans and water pump and a list of other issues.
Not the dealer cheating her, that stuff is really failing.

Crap you never heard of in a car with under 40k miles. Especially Honda.
NFW she coulda paid for any of it.
That’s our grandson she’s toting around so I write the checks after first making sure it’s really gone south.

Kias look pretty good considering all that. Plus the 100k warranty.

Very true. Had a CRV for the wife and at 30k trans Tom a shit. Had to fight with the dealer to get it replaced. Got it fixed and traded it in for a Hyundai Tucson. 10 yr 100k warranty . 45k on the clock and not one hick up. Hope it stays that way.

 

[Yellowboat]

50K? -- 80K? engines! What kind of fkn rigs y'all drive'n?

That price was for an airplane motor installed. The most common ga aircraft is a cessna 172. They use one a io360 of some flavor. A factory reman ( which is zero time motor) starts at about 25k and can be 35k for the later models. By the you have it installed, prop dynamicly balanced, paper work done and etc. 50k is not that un heard of if you have a later motor. An io540 ( 6 cylinder) is right at 85 from the factory

Hell have a modern diesel that something goes bad and takes out the motor that is 20k np. It happens mor3 often then you would think.

 

[hawgty55]

Here we go. No one on RDP has payments everyone is financially stable 401k plans are flourishing.

People struggle and have fun at the same time. My 02 pickup needed a new steering box cost me $800 just before Christmas not gonna lie. that stung a bit.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

When I owned a shop a couple years ago , one of my trade magazines stated over 75% of the driving public did not have $1000 in the bank for an emergency repair . If the car majorly failed , it was a new car , higher insurance, higher DMV fees and 6-7 years payments and stupid sales tax ...A lot to pay for a new current car / truck .

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The largest expense of a new car is depreciation, taxes, registration and insurance. These expenses provide zero value to you. They run in the 10s of thousands of dollars financed at 3+ percent interest. To make the arguement you can't afford to fix a used car that requires 3,4 or 5 thousand dollars in repairs is not being honest with your wallet.

This. 100%.

Continuing to use the used car will be cheaper 95% of the time.

Your total cost of ownership over 8-10 years will be cheaper than buying 2-3 new cars and ditching them when the warranty is up.

If you actually keep up on the maintenance, change fluids early and often, you’ll likely not have major problems broadly speaking.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Here we go. No one on RDP has payments everyone is financially stable 401k plans are flourishing.

People struggle and have fun at the same time. My 02 pickup needed a new steering box cost me $800 just before Christmas not gonna lie. that stung a bit.

Sucks, but that is 1 or 2 payments on a new truck, not 36, 60, or 72.

 

[4Waters]

I can fix it, my dad has a bitchen set of tools

 

[hallett21]

If my repairs start equalling 12 months of new payments I put the vehicle out to pasture.

There’s no guarantee that you drop 10k only to drop another 5-6k a few months later.

Now any payments my wife and I have can be supported by only one of our incomes should there be an accident or emergency. Currently that’s a mortgage, her car and my truck. Both vehicles are paid through my business.

All the toys are paid in full.

It frustrates me to see a lot of guys in construction making $20-30 an hour driving trucks with payments at 800+ a month. And these are guys that do not need the truck for work. Rather they want the image. These are the same guys who’s bank account reads zero 2 days before pay day.

There are plenty of affordable new cars with warranties. The problem is they are not “cool”.


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[CobraDave]

My in-laws are in a similar dilemma. They are
Upside down big time on a 2015 Chevy Malibu. The engine is running rough and they have been told it needs a rebuild. They can’t afford a new car.

Some bad financial decisions put them in this place to begin with and they don’t make much money. One quote they got was about $2,000. Her mom wants to just get rid of it and get a new one of course, probably putting an extra 15k from the old car on a new car. I’m trying to convince them to just fix it. I need to find a good shop in the IE to get it done.


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[Shrub Lurker]

I had a neighbor in the 90’s that was an out of touch idiot. Leased a corvette. Came over when it needed tires and wanted to know if I could help him with a deal. He couldn’t believe the prices I got from my dude weren’t much cheaper than his street deal.
Next day the leased white one was gone cause he traded it in on a leased red one.

problem solved!

 

[Runs2rch]

I can fix it, my dad has a bitchen set of tools

He's a TV repair man right?

 

[bk2drvr]

How long can you afford to fix and drive a car or truck?

Had this conversation yesterday and it is still going on this morning. My position is, there's a point where you start to lose reliability and you worry if you can make it to your next destination. Then you start calling friends and family to take you or come get you. There is a cost to maintain an automobile and you need to be honest about it regardless of your income. Here's where it went bad for me. I believe if you can't afford to maintain a car, you shouldn't have one. The more miles you put on a car, the more expensive the repairs become. Just because you can buy a cheap used car, doesn't mean you can afford to keep it running over any length of time. Thoughts?

My .02

There is a significant factor in your evaluation here and that is how mechanically inclined the owner is. Guys who really know cars well don’t worry as much about high mileage vehicles as guys who don’t. People fear the unknown.

With that said I believe most cars and trucks today should reliably go 200k miles without the owner worrying too much. At 200k a lot of stuff is worn and the owner should start some preventative maintenance too keep truckin well beyond 200k. Knowing how and working on cars allows you to identify a sound or feeling and self diagnose a problem and fix it.

Lastly, cars rarely just stop running, even high mileage ones. When was the last time you were stranded on the side of the road? This was something that happened to our parents/grandparents. Lol...

 

[Yellowboat]

My .02

There is a significant factor in your evaluation here and that is how mechanically inclined the owner is. Guys who really know cars well don’t worry as much about high mileage vehicles as guys who don’t. People fear the unknown.

With that said I believe most cars and trucks today should reliably go 200k miles without the owner worrying too much. At 200k a lot of stuff is worn and the owner should start some preventative maintenance too keep truckin well beyond 200k. Knowing how and working on cars allows you to identify a sound or feeling and self diagnose a problem and fix it.

Lastly, cars rarely just stop running, even high mileage ones. When was the last time you were stranded on the side of the road? This was something that happened to our parents/grandparents. Lol...

Nov of last year.

https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/chevy-starter.209137/

Notice the age of the truck, the milage and the cost of replacment.

It was totally unacceptable, but from what i understand its pretty common with newer chevys.

 

[ChumpChange]

Of course we can!

 

[bk2drvr]

Nov of last year.

https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/chevy-starter.209137/

Notice the age of the truck, the milage and the cost of replacment.

It was totally unacceptable, but from what i understand its pretty common with newer chevys.

As mentioned in the post, $900 is some sort of retail price from a dealer I imagine? Just checked Rockauto and a Delco starter is $150 and maybe an hour job.
While there reports of failing GM starters I’d still bet the number of failures compared to the number non failures is single digit percentages. How’s the truck been since? I’ve had numerous GM trucks and SUVs and I’ve had incredible reliably out of them. I just replaced a perfectly working alternator (preventative) on my 2012 Escalade because it had 190k miles on it. Amazing.

 

[Yellowboat]

As mentioned in the post, $900 is some sort of retail price from a dealer I imagine? Just checked Rockauto and a Delco starter is $150 and maybe an hour job.
While there reports of failing GM starters I’d still bet the number of failures compared to the number non failures is single digit percentages. How’s the truck been since? I’ve had numerous GM trucks and SUVs and I’ve had incredible reliably out of them. I just replaced a perfectly working alternator (preventative) on my 2012 Escalade because it had 190k miles on it. Amazing.

Back then it was 7 of 93 trucks in the fleet, its now 16 of 93 trucks in the fleet. I am getting a new ranger next week and from my understanding in 6 months we will be getting new fords. Most have around 40k on them. I am not in the loop on what goes on between corpate and gm, but the rummor going around the water cooler was after one of the owners go stranded in his, he wanted chevy to replace all the starters, they said no. He said fine i will go to ford.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Back then it was 7 of 93 trucks in the fleet, its now 16 of 93 trucks in the fleet. I am getting a new ranger next week and from my understanding in 6 months we will be getting new fords. Most have around 40k on them. I am not in the loop on what goes on between corpate and gm, but the rummor going around the water cooler was after one of the owners go stranded in his, he wanted chevy to replace all the starters, they said no. He said fine i will go to ford.

Like Ford would replace all the starters ?

 

[Yellowboat]

Like Ford would replace all the starters ?

No clue, but when the average truck has 2 guys in it and you lose 4-8 man hours its not exactly cheap. I would also think if you bought 93 trucks at the same time the dealer would make it right, but from what i have heard( grain of salt) that is not the case. I do know the fleet manger has been truck shopping at ford and dodge.

 

[monkeyswrench]

The newest vehicle we own is 04...actually 4 of them. There isn't much I can't fix on them, or diag. If it's an oddity, I do quite a bit of work for two local shops, and they could help diag. Repairs are repairs, just nuts and bolts...though newer stuff requires more for packaging. I work on newer cars for other people, and the labor is a bunch, and the parts cost more....and they are still making payments.

I think the answer really can be different for individuals and income streams. In construction, I had a newer truck, and an old one. I could not be without one. I kind of keep the same mentality as @bonesfab , I always keep spare cars around. Cheaper to insure a few, than a payment on one, let alone two.

...but if I ever totalled up the cost of my tools

 

[Rajobigguy]

I drive a '97 explorer. As much as I would like to upgrade to a new/newer vehicle I just can't justify it. With almost 250,000 miles it just keeps trucking and I wouldn't hesitate to jump in it and drive to New York. At some point it may become financially prohibitive to keep but for now that car owes me nothing so if I needed to dump a couple grand in it I wouldn't feel bad about it.

 

[74 spectra20 v-drive]

2000 C2500 crew cab, 375,000 on original engine... ill take her anyplace. its a game now to hit 400K and then drop in a new engine. haven't made a car payment sine July 31 2000 when we wrote Connell Chevrolet a check for my truck. Truth be told I would love a new truck but I don't need it... I don't tow much at all, am putting less than 10K a year now on the truck and I drive a new car 25 to 30 weeks a year at work with all the rentals I am in. Had a brand new Expedition

last week.

 

[Carlson-jet]

I will beat the hell out of anything if it's within a few hundred miles and not towing. Around here they rust to death and that's always the deal breaker to me
If I'm going cross country with the Fam, I find it's a decent deal to rent the latest and greatest as they get good gas mileage for more car than I care to afford to keep in the stable.
The tow vehicle is kept up. A few k every few years really makes a difference until the mileage/rust starts getting long in the tooth.

 

[C08H18]

I factor in depreciation into the cost equation. New rigs will depreciate $3500 or more each year. I figure my new Denali 2500HD depreciated $5K/yr thus far. After 5 or 6 yrs, the depreciation drops into the $2500/yr range. My older rigs do require repair (transmission, trans case, seals and bearings, suspension, etc.) but rarely costs more than $2500/yr. Even a $4000 transmission every 5 yrs is less expensive than a new vehicle.

Knock on wood, haven't been stranded: '01 and '18 GMC PUs, '05 Suburban

 

[Justfishing]

50K? -- 80K? engines! What kind of fkn rigs y'all drive'n?

I think he wastalking rebuild an engine at 80k miles

 

[DRYHEAT]

I will beat the hell out of anything if it's within a few hundred miles and not towing. Around here they rust to death and that's always the deal breaker to me
If I'm going cross country with the Fam, I find it's a decent deal to rent the latest and greatest as they get good gas mileage for more car than I care to afford to keep in the stable.
The tow vehicle is kept up. A few k every few years really makes a difference until the mileage/rust starts getting long in the tooth.

What is this rust you speak of?

 

[Willie B]

.,.My beater is a 99 expedition... I just put $2600 into a rebuilt transmission and a water leak issue which may have been the cause of the transmission electronics to gernade the trans... ... I doubt that this vehicle is worth $1500 but it’s certainly a fun 4c4 beater...Oh and the harbor freight $14 plug it into your cigarette lighter heater keeps my right thigh warm as I drive...

 

[Carlson-jet]

What is this rust you speak of?

It's from the damn California salt air..

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

My in-laws are in a similar dilemma. They are
Upside down big time on a 2015 Chevy Malibu. The engine is running rough and they have been told it needs a rebuild. They can’t afford a new car.

Some bad financial decisions put them in this place to begin with and they don’t make much money. One quote they got was about $2,000. Her mom wants to just get rid of it and get a new one of course, probably putting an extra 15k from the old car on a new car. I’m trying to convince them to just fix it. I need to find a good shop in the IE to get it done.


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Yea. Junkyard takeout motor, have it swapped, done deal.

 

[DRYHEAT]

With all the bitchin technology and conveniences of a new car I would sure like to buy one, but I don’t want to pay for hire insurance, ridiculous registration fees, and more sales tax for the government to squander instead of building decent roads.

I think the most difficult thing for people with car problems is finding a quality repair shop, there’s too many parts changers and “we’ll see if this works” shops out there.

 

[Looking Glass]

I understand 100% the New Car lure. My Dad told me years ago if you can not afford a Cadilliac,stay out of the Cadilliacd showroom. You visit them and you become a different person,the smell, the solid sound of a door closing,the shinny clean engine the leather the whole package.,BUT! the two new vehicles I have owned the new car excitement wears off LONG before the car Payments end. I would at the end of the month want to go out to eayt or whatever but that payment pinched my budget. I have accepted my place in life it is a well maintained older vehicle and try hard to make my 2001 Silverado 2wd Lifted Black baby look as good as I can and do get comments and I am content on where it and I am in this whold deal. I have no intention of ever selling it, but may buy something else, but she can just rest when that happens. I do look at the new Girls driving by and picture myself in the drivers seat for a short moment then the light turns green.I believe it it works and can affird it, you are a very fortunate guy.

 

[bowtiejunkie]

I just sold my 1997 S10 I bought from my brother in 2003 (I parked it in 2017). It had 244k miles. I did all work (including pulling engine for a rear main seal leak and trans rebuild), except alignments and A/C recharge. It was my primary commute vehicle (200 miles one way). From 2008 to 2016 I basically changed the oil. Then, I start getting stranded once a year 200 miles from home, which presented problems (AAA Premier only allowed one 200 mile tow a year, plus having to leave client sites to deal with the breakdown). The last straw was a fuel pump. It only took me a few hours to swap it once the truck was towed home 200 miles. But, fearing the unknown, and not willing to dump a bunch of coin into it, I ended up buying a new 2017 Focus ST for commute. It works better as a short haul family vehicle too, which the S10 was not. My new goal is to keep vehicles 15 years and then buy a new one.