Chris Craft- what’s it worth?

[DC-88]

Building a new house for some friends, and this is in the old barn. They got it a few years back from an estate , don’t use it , and may want to sell so I told her I’d throw it out to the brain trust. Obviously it isn’t super old as far as these boats go, but I know nothing about various models , qty produced, or value. It is way more buried in junk than the pics show , so I didn’t have time to dig in and try to check for rot, but boat and trailer look to have not ever been kept outside from what I see. Assuming the hull is sound, what do these go for , and what if any is the demand for one?


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[Yellowboat]

They can be worth next too nothing or 10k+ by the pics looks like 3-5k

 

[Taboma]

Appears to be a mid-60's Super Sport, I'm thinking the 17', they also made a 20' version. Despite being a very cool vintage CC, they don't command the big $$ like the 40's and 50's generations. Nicer than that one for sale for $ 7500 --- really nice restored, high teens to $ 20K. So Yellowboat might be correct.

 

[Riverbottom]

Probably not worth much. If it has been sitting dry on a trailer for long it might be worthless. Wood planked boats need to be kept wet or have moisture. When they dry out the seems open up. It is a good habit if on a trailer to keep salt water in the bildge. Fresh water promotes dry rot.

 

[spectras only]

That CC will definitely need a little more than TLC. Some one needs to crawl inside, inspecting hard to access corners in the transom area. Can't see from the pictures if it's a utility model or twin cockpit. The later is more desirable than the utility.These guys are my local, dealing with a lot of CC's and others.http://www.absoluteclassicsmarine.com/

This 1955 is my buddy's that I'm trying to get. Told him I have to sell my boat before pulling the trigger, so it may be sold before that. The price Absolute Classics is asking is in cdn founds. I would get it cheaper of course.Pictures were taken recently at his vineyard. He should just give me the boat for free to use, I'd take care of it for him.
http://www.absoluteclassicsmarine.com/wooden-boat-for-sale-1955-CHRIS-CRAFT-19-FOOT-CAPRI-252.php

 

[RiverDave]

Probably not worth much. If it has been sitting dry on a trailer for long it might be worthless. Wood planked boats need to be kept wet or have moisture. When they dry out the seems open up. It is a good habit if on a trailer to keep salt water in the bildge. Fresh water promotes dry rot.

Out of all the shit I have learned about boating over the years.. That has to be one of the most interesting things I have ever heard!

Thanks for putting that up Richard!

RD

 

[spectras only]

Usually, restoration costs more than double what buyers pay for them.

 

[Taboma]

Probably not worth much. If it has been sitting dry on a trailer for long it might be worthless. Wood planked boats need to be kept wet or have moisture. When they dry out the seems open up. It is a good habit if on a trailer to keep salt water in the bildge. Fresh water promotes dry rot.

Having spent my entire childhood with my dad, buying, selling and mostly sanding (Yes I was deemed fully qualified to sand my fingers to the bone) plank hull Chris Crafts, I disagree with your blanket statement regarding being worthless from drying out. Weathering yes, simply drying out no.
We pulled many out of barns and storage warehouses that had sat dry for years. It wasn't being dry that caused the problems, you could gradually re-humidify the wood causing it to re-swell. Our chosen method was not to try to fill the bilge with saltwater, but to stack old carpets up under the bottom, keeping them soaked, in a closed garage, but we only did that as summer was approaching. Otherwise allowing them to dry in the fall and winter Santa Ana dry winds caused no harm. We always soaked them from the outside in, then in late spring haul them to the lake, sling them in the slip with ropes and within a week of leaking, they'd swell and not leak all summer. Seams opening up was common, what you didn't want to do was attempt to caulk those seams until the planks had re-expanded, made for a hell of a mess and caused undue stress. Our Chris's would dry, shrink, re-expand with humidity, it was an annual occurrence, not once do I recall re-caulking a bottom. We did do re-caulking on the deck from sun damage, and of course the annual rite of re-applying the white pin striping in the joints after we'd added a few coats of fresh varnish.
The major problem came from not storing them on a trailer without proper support, in fact all new Chris Crafts were shipped on a cradle you could keep. Storing them long term on that cradle was the best option, it provide excellent support. Hulls stored on ill-fitting trailers often suffered stern droop or otherwise hull warping --- that was bad news.

I will confess, I was dealing with 10 to 20 year old Chris Crafts, not 70 year old models in who knows what stage of neglect. I have no clue how well a Chris that's a 50 year old barn find will emerge.
I will also never know, I love them to look at them, I sold my plank hull 16' Mercury Sabre when I was 17 and never looked back --- fiberglass baby

 

[Taboma]

That CC will definitely need a little more than TLC. Some one needs to crawl inside, inspecting hard to access corners in the transom area. Can't see from the pictures if it's a utility model or twin cockpit. The later is more desirable than the utility.These guys are my local, dealing with a lot of CC's and others.http://www.absoluteclassicsmarine.com/

This 1955 is my buddy's that I'm trying to get. Told him I have to sell my boat before pulling the trigger, so it may be sold before that. The price Absolute Classics is asking is in cdn founds. I would get it cheaper of course.Pictures were taken recently at his vineyard. He should just give me the boat for free to use, I'd take care of it for him.
http://www.absoluteclassicsmarine.com/wooden-boat-for-sale-1955-CHRIS-CRAFT-19-FOOT-CAPRI-252.php

Those were a pretty boat, I see the example you posted has been re-powered with a V8. That model had the famous Chris 131 HP flat head with the downdraft carbs, hence the riser on the hatch. We owned a 1949 17' Chris runabout with that same 131 and hatch. Later the 131 came with the updraft Strombergs and the hatch was flat.

 

[spectras only]

Yeah, I know the 55's had straight sixes. The straight six is still powerful with low end torque though.If i won't get the Capri, another buddy has a prewar 19' triple cockpit Greavette with Kermath engine that I may be able to buy. He has a 1923 Dodge Watercar [ six figures, insured with Hagerty ] totally restored.

Ps; few weeks ago, saw a guy pulling out a post war Shepherd utility at the local ramp.He said he just bought it in Victoria BC. I've noticed ropes hanging off the bottom, previous owner probably did a quickie prior to sale.

 

[old rigger]

Probably not worth much. If it has been sitting dry on a trailer for long it might be worthless. Wood planked boats need to be kept wet or have moisture. When they dry out the seems open up. It is a good habit if on a trailer to keep salt water in the bildge. Fresh water promotes dry rot.

Back in the 60s one of the boats Dick Schuster took in on trade for a new Tahiti was an old Chris. At that time we didn't have a boat and Schuster would send whatever new model was laying around home with my dad and we'd haul it to the river. This went on for years. Anyway, Schuster told dad he could take that Chris if he wanted as that particular weekend there was nothing new on the floor for us to take. Dad went over and looked at the Chris and he could see the gravel parking lot through the wood slats. He told Dick thanks but no thanks and told him about the big gaps in the bottom. Schuster grabbed a garden and filled up the Chris with about 5 inches of water and by days end it was tight as a drum. We enjoyed the hell out of that old Chris that weekend.

 

[Riverbottom]

Back in the 60s one of the boats Dick Schuster took in on trade for a new Tahiti was an old Chris. At that time we didn't have a boat and Schuster would send whatever new model was laying around home with my dad and we'd haul it to the river. This went on for years. Anyway, Schuster told dad he could take that Chris if he wanted as that particular weekend there was nothing new on the floor for us to take. Dad went over and looked at the Chris and he could see the gravel parking lot through the wood slats. He told Dick thanks but no thanks and told him about the big gaps in the bottom. Schuster grabbed a garden and filled up the Chris with about 5 inches of water and by days end it was tight as a drum. We enjoyed the hell out of that old Chris that weekend.

I understand, I grew up on Balboa Island, and my grandfather, dad, uncle, etc. all had wood boats. I wish I had some of them ( Hacker craft with a V-12 Allison, several Chris Crafts and mostly wooden sail boats that they raced. Yes they will swell up when put in the water, but not really as good as new. I remember being really young, and when my dad's PC sailboats had been in dry dock, ( for maybe two weeks ) my job would be to use a siphon on a garden hose in the morning before going to school, and after school sucking the water out of the bildge. Sometimes it took a week plus to stop leaking. We always had 3 or 4 wooden boats on the dock at all times. Looking at the bottom of that Chris, I would not gamble much on it swelling and sealing. Then it would not be worth re planking considering the actual value of it.

 

[SKIDMARC]

Out of all the shit I have learned about boating over the years.. That has to be one of the most interesting things I have ever heard!

Thanks for putting that up Richard!

RD

That's what I was thinking, leaving salt water in a boat doesn't seem like a good idea. I would think these wood boats would be sealed to a certain extent.

 

[Taboma]

That's what I was thinking, leaving salt water in a boat doesn't seem like a good idea. I would think these wood boats would be sealed to a certain extent.

The idea of the salt water is, unlike fresh water, it doesn't promote dry rot. Most dry rot found on older ocean cruisers (As one example) is in the wooden cabin structure and paneling surrounding window frames. This is due to rain and wash down water leaking from the frames, not the salt water. In a wooden boat in fresh water, it's best to keep the bilge dry as possible, to prevent dry rot. We never filled a stored boat with fresh or salt water, we found that keeping the underside humid by soaking piles of old carpet worked fine until launched and slung. Back in the day, those boats didn't have electric bilge pumps, they had siphon pumps that worked underway only (These siphon pumps had a reverse clam shell on the boat bottom that created the suction underway --- most important, up at the tip top of the highest part of the interior tube loop, there was a tiny little hole, that prevented unintentional reverse siphoning --- many boats sunk due to this pin-hole getting clogged) . Plus the docks had no power to keep the battery charged.
So using several ropes to keep it from sinking was always prudent when leaving it unattended for a week while it soaked up and the planks tightened. Didn't take long and she was as tight was a virgin again

Also most all Chris Crafts and planked "Speed boats" were double planked. Outer planking that ran length wise, sealed and painted, then inner planking usually running diagonal. Treated jute was packed in the seams as well as caulking, but this was done as a process during varying levels of humidity, so that when the planks soaked up and expanded tight, it didn't shove all the packing and caulking back out. Owning and maintaining one of these wooden beauties is more like an art and a passion for perfection. A lost art I'm afraid.
I Heart fiberglass, lol

 

[old rigger]

.... Hacker craft with a V-12 Allison...

My all time favorite boats, except for my dads first boat, are the 16-26 Hackercraft gentleman racers. God, what a design. I've seen a few at Tahoe when we were going up there to the wood boat show but never had the chance to ride in one.

Little trivia, John Hacker was a boyhood friend of Henry Ford.

Last pic isn't a gentleman's racer but Hacker's Kitty Hawk. The first step hydroplane that worked. In 1911 it was the fastest boat in the world running over 50mph.

 

[spectras only]

My buddy keeps his Dodge in his boathouse, not taking chances of sinking it. This is my cruising place on Skaha Lake. I live on the hilltop to the right at the end of the video.

 

[SKIDMARC]

The idea of the salt water is, unlike fresh water, it doesn't promote dry rot. Most dry rot found on older ocean cruisers (As one example) is in the wooden cabin structure and paneling surrounding window frames. This is due to rain and wash down water leaking from the frames, not the salt water. In a wooden boat in fresh water, it's best to keep the bilge dry as possible, to prevent dry rot. We never filled a stored boat with fresh or salt water, we found that keeping the underside humid by soaking piles of old carpet worked fine until launched and slung. Back in the day, those boats didn't have electric bilge pumps, they had siphon pumps that worked underway only (These siphon pumps had a reverse clam shell on the boat bottom that created the suction underway --- most important, up at the tip top of the highest part of the interior tube loop, there was a tiny little hole, that prevented unintentional reverse siphoning --- many boats sunk due to this pin-hole getting clogged) . Plus the docks had no power to keep the battery charged.
So using several ropes to keep it from sinking was always prudent when leaving it unattended for a week while it soaked up and the planks tightened. Didn't take long and she was as tight was a virgin again

Also most all Chris Crafts and planked "Speed boats" were double planked. Outer planking that ran length wise, sealed and painted, then inner planking usually running diagonal. Treated jute was packed in the seams as well as caulking, but this was done as a process during varying levels of humidity, so that when the planks soaked up and expanded tight, it didn't shove all the packing and caulking back out. Owning and maintaining one of these wooden beauties is more like an art and a passion for perfection. A lost art I'm afraid.
I Heart fiberglass, lol

Great info thank you for sharing!!!

 

[Royally PO'd]

The Super Sports were 60's and newer ( til '81, I think) and had all kinds of different V-8's factory.. Also the double planking is correct, but most all the CC's in the 60's had Mahogany sheeting on the exterior, over actual plank boards. Planking is the term for whatever kind of wood covers the frame.They actually sell in "Bristol" condition , in the 30's and 40's k ...My Dad and Uncle built "woodies" , in the 50's. My FIL, bought one - against my advice that had won the ConcoursD'Elegance at Shasta. He wanted to take it out the day it arrived, I said oh no, you can't do that , it will need to sit on the trailer backed in the water for as long as it takes to swell... I put the keel 5 to 6 " under water then took the straps loose at the stern . It took about 3 to 4 minutes to sink back on the trailer, Manually sucking the water out.. Total of 3 1/2 days later it wouldn't sink and could start the siphoning. Rode like shit in medium chop... I LOVE the bubblegum boats...

 

[Royally PO'd]

Oh. I forgot to mention, my FIL's CC was a '49 with real board planks and looked like furniture , the day it got to him. Didn't quite look like that after about 4 months. Had the correct hercules six banger and everything , but STILL a pos ....

 

[Royally PO'd]

Woodies aren't a fad , they are a lifestyle.... Perpetual care project....

 

[Ouderkirk]

Out of all the shit I have learned about boating over the years.. That has to be one of the most interesting things I have ever heard!

Thanks for putting that up Richard!

RD

He's 100% correct on that. Wood boats are wonderful things but they are a bigger hole in the water than fiberglass.

When I re-did a 1941 16 footer 30 years ago, a friend of my dad who helped (directed) me in the restoration told me all of these little secrets. The cotton rope in the rudder stuffing box and shaft log are probably gone, and will have to be replaced as well as the "fiber" bushings in the strut. A wood boat has to "soak up" water to swell the joints. You don't just splash it, and forget it. Put it in the water, and you have the bilge pump on with a float switch and a battery charger to keep it topped off. The thing will cycle constantly and drain the battery. Takes about a 10 days for it to fully soak up, assuming that there are no other issues. Once it's "soaked up", it's still not a stay dry, situation but it's better. Epoxy on the bottom has become the standard for restorers these days. But the salt (I was told halite, not sea salt) water is an annual winterizing thing @ 1lb/gallon was what I was told/did. They are beautiful and fun in a nostalgic way but the PITA aspect definately is not for the less than 100% motivated.

 

[Taboma]

The Super Sports were 60's and newer ( til '81, I think) and had all kinds of different V-8's factory.. Also the double planking is correct, but most all the CC's in the 60's had Mahogany sheeting on the exterior, over actual plank boards. Planking is the term for whatever kind of wood covers the frame.They actually sell in "Bristol" condition , in the 30's and 40's k ...My Dad and Uncle built "woodies" , in the 50's. My FIL, bought one - against my advice that had won the ConcoursD'Elegance at Shasta. He wanted to take it out the day it arrived, I said oh no, you can't do that , it will need to sit on the trailer backed in the water for as long as it takes to swell... I put the keel 5 to 6 " under water then took the straps loose at the stern . It took about 3 to 4 minutes to sink back on the trailer, Manually sucking the water out.. Total of 3 1/2 days later it wouldn't sink and could start the siphoning. Rode like shit in medium chop... I LOVE the bubblegum boats...

Our last couple of Chris Crafts were plywood bottom Cavaliers, one was a runabout and the other a utility. Much easier to live with, but being lighter they were a bit stiffer ride.
A lot of those plywood bottomed Chris's ended up getting the bottoms fiber-glassed over. A few early attempts at glassing over the planked versions resulted in a disastrous mess.
The hull was going to expand and contract, glass mat and resin be damned

 

[Outdrive1]

Cool old piece. And props to the guys that spend the time to maintain and use those old wood bottom bottom boats. I remember an old guy telling me how they would take their boat out of storage every year and let it soak so it would seal. I thought owning a vdrive was a lot of work, I can’t imagine owning a vdrive wood bottom boat. [emoji15]


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[spectras only]

Cool old piece. And props to the guys that spend the time to maintain and use those old wood bottom bottom boats. I remember an old guy telling me how they would take their boat out of storage every year and let it soak so it would seal. I thought owning a vdrive was a lot of work, I can’t imagine owning a vdrive wood bottom boat. [emoji15]


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OD1, they're pretty much all straight shaft drives, so a bit less maintenance.

This is a perfect resto job, was done with cold molded process. Planks are almost invisible until getting close to it.
Still more maintenance needed vs any plastic boat.

 

[Royally PO'd]

I don't like to cut and paste so much but this system is the way to go for less maintenance with wood . Very expensive, but done right- unbelievable results... WEST SYSTEM Epoxy was created by Gougeon Brothers–sailors, builders and formulators who know the engineering and the chemistry required for high-performance composite structures. We are an employee-own, family run organization that has maintained our performance-driven development of marine epoxies since the company was founded in 1969

 

[Royally PO'd]

One last gasp... Here is one listed on YachtWorld ------- And I have seen then as high as 49,000.00
1964 Chris-Craft super sport
US$ 28,900*

 

[Taboma]

I don't like to cut and paste so much but this system is the way to go for less maintenance with wood . Very expensive, but done right- unbelievable results... WEST SYSTEM Epoxy was created by Gougeon Brothers–sailors, builders and formulators who know the engineering and the chemistry required for high-performance composite structures. We are an employee-own, family run organization that has maintained our performance-driven development of marine epoxies since the company was founded in 1969

I love looking at the classic wooden boats, takes me back to my youth up at Lake Arrowhead and all the memories I share working on them with my dad.
That said, I don't want to get married to one, and that's essentially what you are when you purchase one, it's a passion, like owning art, not a water toy to be wiped down and put in the garage till next season.

Every now and then I explore some of the forums where these classic boat owners and lovers hang out.
What I've learned is, you can read volumes of past and ongoing debates over the "Danenberg 3M 5200 bottom versus the West System Epoxy", the pros and cons of each and where each is more advantageous. I mean these guys not only get into dry rot caused when a West System Epoxy develops an unnoticed slight leak, to the negatives of West System bottom married to non-epoxy side planking, the pros of total encapsulation, how boats with each system actually ride and sound different on the water, how the 5200 bottom isn't 100% waterproof, but does allow it to dry out off season ---- I mean you could go mad before you ever reach the bottom of that rabbit hole debate and discussion.

The one consistent theme is this --- which ever system you or your builder chooses, take the boat apart (Oh yeah that's going to cost ya) and re-build it from the frame out, using that system from start to finish.

Nope, no thank you, I'll be satisfied looking at the pretty pics and recalling old memories while I go boating in a fiberglass bathtub that hauls ass, rides much better and requires maybe 10% of the upkeep, if even that.

 

[Taboma]

One last gasp... Here is one listed on YachtWorld ------- And I have seen then as high as 49,000.00
1964 Chris-Craft super sport
US$ 28,900*

Here's a link to a good story about restoring a mid-60's Super Sport, provides some insight into what's involved replacing the planked bottom.
It's easy when reading these ads that claim "Restored", to overlook who did it and how it was accomplished. Done correctly it's not just applying anybody's system over a aging bottom, that much is certain. In the case of this Chris Craft SS, originally priced at $ 52K and now $ 28K, how much is it really worth ????

https://epoxyworks.com/index.php/the-restoration-of-the-rebel/