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Construction - New water service to a vacant parcel

Discussion in 'RD's Lounge' started by C-2, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Guys:

    We are adding water service to our vacant land. The City (Riverside) says no development plans required; pay us $15,000 and we'll put a meter in. They already determined a 1" line is required.

    Is it that simple, or am I missing something?

    Also, we do not have a "structure" per se, only a horse barn. However, later we may explore the idea of building a house on the lot. In the meantime, I am planning on running PVC piping down to the barn to run a few spigots.

    Is there anything else I should know, or do I simply connect the PVC to the water meter line?

    What about water pressure, should I drop some type of regulator in the line?

    I have not yet started the process, but will pull the trigger within the next week or two.
     
  2. NicPaus

    NicPaus Well-Known Member

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    Determine the size of the future house. Make sure a 1" meter will be sufficient for the fire sprinkler system. That way you won't have to upgrade the meter when you build.
     
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  3. yz450mm

    yz450mm Well-Known Member

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    I would put a brass gate valve right after the meter, then run PVC from there. Having a valve helps in case there was a leak and somebody didn't have a water shut off key handy.

    I would also throw in some tees with capped stub outs for future expansion, keeps you from having to cut and splice. Try not to use PVC female adapters anywhere, they tend to split or crack.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
     
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  4. DLC

    DLC Well-Known Member

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    Typically You will need a brass back flow attached to the meter, a concrete pad on the back side of the meter box.

    If you can get away with the minimal requirements then go for it! Up size the pipe to 2 inch so you get plenty of volume.
    pressure is different than volume

    Once you get to your structure then add a pressure regulator. Use good primer & glue and factory bell fittings for the long run. Be careful on your back fill watch out for rocks, if you can shade it with sand
     
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  5. DLC

    DLC Well-Known Member

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    Buy your material at a commercial supply house rather than depot, quality is better, dig it at least 2 ft deep so you won’t accidentally dig it up later on. Add some sand on the bottom of the trench so it cradles the pipe

    A little over kill but if it done correctly you will never have to mess with it again
     
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  6. Justfishing

    Justfishing Well-Known Member

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    Is it pvc or cpvc for potable water
     
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  7. DLC

    DLC Well-Known Member

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    2BF0C43A-F3C1-42D3-B534-6B464F7A94F0.jpeg
     
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  8. scottchbrite

    scottchbrite Well-Known Member

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    That’s about it. When I built my house approx a year ago in Murrieta, it was pretty much the same. I was required to install a back flow device because i was over an acre. The water dept supplied the specs for the install and I used a local plumbing supply for everything but the back flow. I have a 1” meter and backflow and it flows plenty For Fire sprinklers for 4000 sqft. as long as the pressure Is good. And I used regular pvc at 30” in sand for the supply after the backflow
     
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  9. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, the 1" size is in fact required for a fire sprinkler system. Any future home will not be too large, we think 1,500-2,500 single story, max.
     
  10. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I was thinking about some tees as you describe.
     
  11. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. The increase in cost for a 2" line is substantial, another 10K. The concrete pad, and possibly a sidewalk(?) has me concerned and I will reach out to the city and ask them about it. The property is on a rural street without sidewalks. It also has 150' of frontage, so a sidewalk requirement would make it cost-prohibitive.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  12. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.

    Were you allowed to use a contractor to install the meter? That might save me some money.

    According to the water service fees requirements (again City of Riverside), they charge for:

    Backup Facility Capacity Charge
    Elevation Fee
    Distribution System Fee
    Water Service and Meter Connection Charges
    Special Conditions

    The "Backup Facility Capacity Charge" fee (whatever that is) appears to be the most significant fee, $5,060, I'm assuming the rest of the $10,000 costs are for engineering and installation.

    Who installed your backflow device?
     
  13. DLC

    DLC Well-Known Member

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    If the city will allow you up size the pipe one size after meter and back flow, if a 1inch meter go with a 1.5 pipe if it is a long run. If you have and turns sweep / curve the pipe rather than using fittings 90’s 45’s

    Sometimes they want a separate dedicated line for fire sprinklers

    Side walks suck!! huge waste of dinero on your dine
     
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  14. yz450mm

    yz450mm Well-Known Member

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    I see what he is saying, but he wasn't suggesting that you get a 2-inch meter, because that is definitely not needed. A pressure regulator and backflow is not a bad idea at all, and it wouldn't cost you very much to just do it in case they require it in the future.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
     
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  15. DLC

    DLC Well-Known Member

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    You can install your own back flow, you just have to get it tested by a back flow company, you can get the back flow at a plumbing supply company, call around, Fergusions for example, Site One might have them
     
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  16. DLC

    DLC Well-Known Member

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    Pic of a back flow device, you need to size it the same size as the meter. The city/ county should have the specs and position/location of where they want it located in relation to the meter box, pressure regulator usually goes at the building to prevent high pressure blowing supply lines inside the building



    2E255131-5378-43DB-8C9F-8D1AFC959027.jpeg
     
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  17. yz450mm

    yz450mm Well-Known Member

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    Whay a coincidence, I was cleaning out the work truck tonight and came up with this Wilkins 375 XL. It's his if he wants it!

    I was shopping around for a commercial water heater last month, Winnelson was that 2400 + standing firm, Ferguson 2150 standing firm, found one online for 1750. I thought it was crazy that the local supply houses wouldn't bring the price down to make the sale.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    View attachment 815607
     
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  18. scottchbrite

    scottchbrite Well-Known Member

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    Rancho Water installed the meter, $11,500 ish if I remember right. They had to cut up the street pretty good to get it in. They put a lock on the meter until I installed the backflow and had it tested, and they inspected the install to their requirements. Then they came unlocked the meter and voila- I had water. I did all my own site work (plumbing and electrical runs etc) myself. I actually installed a 2.5” water main after the backflow. I have 5 acres and a 2000 sqft garage going up also, so I wanted to insure I had volume. I have elevation and about 250’ to the POC at the house.

    Install of meter
    0AEA7BD4-FFF8-4945-8B73-518725F474C0.jpeg B9034358-5A27-46A3-851E-49C867FD50AF.jpeg
     
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  19. scottchbrite

    scottchbrite Well-Known Member

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    This is the one I have and I bought it from amazon too. I built my own lock setup and then it gets covered by a fake plastic rock that matches the rest of the rock I put around it for protection.
     
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  20. DLC

    DLC Well-Known Member

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    Nice property ! No close neighbors, beautiful!
     
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  21. rrrr

    rrrr Well-Known Member

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    In my county, lawn sprinkler companies can provide certified backflow preventer testing. It saved me almost $100 over using a plumber.

    You might consider using ball valves for your system instead of gate valves. These days it's almost impossible to find a quality gate valve, and they develop maintenance issues after a few years. I have found ball valves are a better choice.
     
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  22. FreeBird236

    FreeBird236 Well-Known Member

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    If the city isn't requiring a backflow, no need to go down that road, it's for their protection not your's and you don't want to be stuck with yearly testing. That facility fee is what they have decided is necessary to maintain and keep the distribution system up to date and should be separate funds from monthly water charges. Static pressure info can be obtained from the water dept, but probably no need for a regulator until house is actually built, unless pressure is extremely high, say above 90psi or so. Hopefully the water dept will find the proper location and elevation for future development as far as meter location, and future sidewalks. The water dept will put a curb stop valve before the meter, and possibly a ball valve after for your use, if not install one. Also the water dept probably doesn't care what size line you use after the meter. As far as a private contractor, they might allow from a approved list, but not likely to save any money, although it does seem like they're much higher than we were for a 1" service line.;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  23. DC-88

    DC-88 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely do the line in 2” coming off the 1” meter. Even on small lots this has been a component of almost all the new homes I’ve built in the last 5 years or so for the fire sprinklers. This has included when the pressure is over 60 at the street, with designs by many different residential fire sprinkler contractors . If you are teeing off on the way to the home before the fire riser you’ll need the manifold/ volume as well, or if pressure is low and you need a pump it will be required anyway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  24. Racey

    Racey Maxwell Smart-Ass

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    Not sure how it is out there, but here they get like an extra $100 a month to read a 2" over a 3/4" meter. My shop is all plumbed from the main and internally with 2" but had them switch the meter out years ago for a 3/4" because we hardly use 2k or 3k gallons a month and no need for that kind of cost for nothing. (Fire riser is separate in my case)
     
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  25. NicPaus

    NicPaus Well-Known Member

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    The bigger the meter the more per month. Last houses I built had to upgrade the meters to 1" and run 1 1/2" to feed the fire sprinklers. Depends on the engineer that designs fire system. The big house I worked on was 4" main house was a long way up hill from meter.
     
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  26. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks

    Yes, it's a long run, about 150' with a slight grade downwards, probably about 2.5 to 3 ft to where the first line would stop; and then down another 2.5 ft to the barn. Previously I buried 1" PVC lines from the first stop down to the barn, with 3/4" lines for spigots.

    No existing sidewalks or curbs on the entire street. No plans to build right now; water service only.

    My parcel, with red lines representing the desired water lines (subject to where the city places the meter). That's all I need for now.

    alhambra 1 ver.3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  27. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Oh okay, thanks for the clarification.
     
  28. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Hey thanks, I appreciate it, that's way cool. I'll see if the city requires a backflow device.

    They've already looked at the parcel on their GIS mapping system and said the costs covers everything. If I need it I'll give you a holler! :)
     
  29. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks
     
  30. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Great info, thanks for the explanation and suggestions.
     
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  31. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Yikes, fuggers.
     
  32. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    If you look at my pic, at the street where the round tree is, there is a hand dug water well that dried up 3 years ago. The concrete casing had 1944 stamped on it. An old miner owned the parcel and hand dug the well to 40'. No shit, it was a big ass, 4' round hole in the ground. I always wondered why 40' only? Apparently, the miner knew gravity restricted him to 37' head feet before an in-line pump would be needed to push/pull water below 37'.

    That's why I need water now - the well went dry. I'm not sure if the drought dried the well up, or if it was due to other developments drawing down on the underground aquifer.

    Years ago, the area was known for its water table being too high, and Willits Hole, a water engineer and founder of the City of La Habra, worked out a system of canals draining surface water to the nearby Santa Ana River so he could try to grow crops.

    The parcel is also cool because it has an outbuilding on it left over from Hole's mansion and The Hole Ranch; https://www.divinewordseminary-riverside.com/willits-j-hole-mansion-history.html
     
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  33. FreeBird236

    FreeBird236 Well-Known Member

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    A couple of other things, the water dept. will probably give some latitude as to where the meter is laterally on the property, so you can try to plan for the future. Just fyi it takes 2.31 ft elevation change to equal 1 psi, so that doesn't appear to be any sort of problem.
     
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  34. glamis0812

    glamis0812 Well-Known Member

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    Palos Verdes?
     
  35. NicPaus

    NicPaus Well-Known Member

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    Yep PVE owner of Jim's auto sales pad. It took 33 caisons to make the hill buildable. Cost over a million just for the caisons.
     
  36. rrrr

    rrrr Well-Known Member

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    If you intend to install a watering system for landscaping in the future, a backflow preventer will be required. Mine is in a separate access box, connected to a tee off the main line a couple of feet from the meter box.

    I built a bypass with a ball valve around the BFP. Ball valves were then installed on both sides of the BFP along with unions, so it can be removed if servicing or replacement is required. All of this required a pretty big access handhole, but when the day it needs to be serviced comes along, I'll be glad I did it.

    Obviously it's easier to install all this now instead of later, so I wanted to share this with you.
     
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  37. Yellowboat

    Yellowboat Well-Known Member

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    Post meter, add a high quality shut off. Then run at min1 1/4 " pvc and a tracer wire( its like $.10/ ft) at some point in the future it will be worth $10/ ft
     
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  38. scottchbrite

    scottchbrite Well-Known Member

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    good point. I ran it with my water main but the dipshit plumbing contractor never pulled it up past the POC at the house. They buried the 10’ I left them to finish pulling and now it’s under concrete. My fault too for not babysitting them dumb shits (obviously that wasn’t the only thing they did wrong :mad:)
     
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  39. Angler

    Angler Tritoon Racing

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    Use schedule 80 PVC
     
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  40. Mandelon

    Mandelon Coffee makes me poop.

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    $15,000. It sure seems like a ridiculously high price to pay, so you can then buy their water too.

    That said, I paid $28,000 for service out in Lakeside. So I suppose $15k is a relative bargain. They did do the excavation and road work included in that price.

    San Diego was only like $7000 though. But i had to pay separate for the excavation and repaving of the road.
     
  41. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again.
     
  42. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Okay now yore losing me a little. A what?
     
  43. Bobby V

    Bobby V Well-Known Member

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    You should see how much it costs to bring a 6" fire main across 4 lanes of traffic on a busy street. :eek::)
     
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  44. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    On the price - yes it's spendy, it was $13K 2-years ago.

    I need to check and see if I need a permit and and ask them about the curbs.
     
  45. Yellowboat

    Yellowboat Well-Known Member

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    Tracer wire. Its a wire you put on the pipe so you can find it later with a locator.
     
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  46. Bobby V

    Bobby V Well-Known Member

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    Tracer wire. We use it when we are installing plastic pipes.
     
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  47. Yellowboat

    Yellowboat Well-Known Member

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  48. Mandelon

    Mandelon Coffee makes me poop.

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    I got extorted into removing and replacing 50 feet of sidewalk, curb and gutter, and have to slurry the street.
     
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  49. C-2

    C-2 Well-Known Member

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    Okay gotcha, thanks.

    And thanks for offering to help me with the install! :)
     
  50. DC-88

    DC-88 Well-Known Member

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    Not to beat a dead horse but I just had this one dialed in today on a new build with a new 1” meter and figured I’d share the pics with @C-2 . Not saying this is the Schiada rigging of h2o service or anything, but you can see the new meter with water company supplied shutoff in the vault . 2” line with tracer, direct link to fire riser so it cannot be shut off independently, landscape Tee , and then the ball valve at the house for domestic shutoff . I’ve personally never seen a new gate valve put anywhere on anything in the 28 years of being licensed but as stated don’t ever use those or the old school angle stops inside the home either ....
    IMG_1843.jpg IMG_1836.jpg


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