Contracts

[ka0tyk]

Lets say you and a business signed a contract... there wasnt a ending date on it per say but then years later you both mutually agreed that it was ended both written and verbally. A year or so later you came back, would that original contract be reinstated or would you basically be "without contract"? At some point said contract had changed and there was no record that the new one was ever provided to you nor did you ever agree to the rules or signed anything.

What says RDP?

 

[4Waters]

If you didn't sign it then it's not a valid contract.

 

[MK1MOD0]

Put three lawyers on the topic, and get three different answers.

 

[dnewps]

Lets say you and a business signed a contract... there wasnt a ending date on it per say but then years later you both mutually agreed that it was ended both written and verbally. A year or so later you came back, would that original contract be reinstated or would you basically be "without contract"? At some point said contract had changed and there was no record that the new one was ever provided to you nor did you ever agree to the rules or signed anything.

What says RDP?

Signed contract then signed to terminate. Never agreed verbally or written to a new contract? So what is the exchange? Because if there is one there is some sort of agreement.

 

[Singleton]

Lets say you and a business signed a contract... there wasnt a ending date on it per say but then years later you both mutually agreed that it was ended both written and verbally. A year or so later you came back, would that original contract be reinstated or would you basically be "without contract"? At some point said contract had changed and there was no record that the new one was ever provided to you nor did you ever agree to the rules or signed anything.

What says RDP?

Original contract was signed and then terminated by both parties.
IMO, you start over and maybe try to leverage original contract, but both parties can request new T&C’s at this point.

the kicker if you get lawyers involved, were both parties operating under the contract when it was not valid, that opens a can of legal fees.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Way to many variables and moving parts. Are both parties merchants is one variable. The communication back and forth. In some situations the terms of the contract can carry on. Some jurisdictions look at it as an implied contract. I suggest you speak to an attorney that specializes in contracts.

 

[Elway]

Would need to know additional details regarding what happened a year later, what the parties did or did not do at that time, what was exchanged at that time and how long the parties performed a year later under the new terms. Based on what you have provided thus far it sounds like there is some new agreement to me (perhaps under the same terms and conditions of the original contract that was previously cancelled my mutual agreement) and the lack of a new agreement in writing is probably irrelevant.

 

[ka0tyk]

Okay so some back story. My 6 year old originally went to a daycare. At day 1 we signed a contract. Let me just say that we in no way had any worries of our kids safety, etc. When she turned 5 she went into public school. No big deal. We both agreed that we were done, etc. No written notice was given. We up until recently have been extremely nice towards one another. We have purchased and donated countless goods, provided pizza, etc... Nothing at that moment was ever said about notice, etc. My now 3 year old had been attending since he was 6 months. When corona happened the public school shut down. We asked if my oldest could come back, we paid first and last month and she went back to the daycare. Fast forward to recently her school district opened back up, we thought it would be best for her if she went back to public school in hybrid fashion versus staying at the daycare and being 100% virtual. When we told the daycare, we got a random text the next day saying "I will have to think about your 3 year old as your oldest going back to school puts us at risk..." We then showed up the next day and all hell broke loose. We basically were told that neither kid could come back. 6 years of a relationship down the tubes in 5 minutes. Whatever we move on. Now today we get a letter with 2 weeks for each kid being withheld from our deposit, etc because we "failed to give written notice." It was my understanding that we were removed, we didnt withdraw. Also the VERY FIRST contact only states 1 week. But we only have a contract for one kid at this point. My oldest that came back we never saw any paperwork. So at some point it changed and shes just angry at this point and trying to hold funds from us.

Thats bascially where I am at... a certified letter sent in the mail with the full amount owed and 30 days before I file small claims. Sigh...

 

[dnewps]

Okay so some back story. My 6 year old originally went to a daycare. At day 1 we signed a contract. Let me just say that we in no way had any worries of our kids safety, etc. When she turned 5 she went into public school. No big deal. We both agreed that we were done, etc. No written notice was given. We up until recently have been extremely nice towards one another. We have purchased and donated countless goods, provided pizza, etc... Nothing at that moment was ever said about notice, etc. My now 3 year old had been attending since he was 6 months. When corona happened the public school shut down. We asked if my oldest could come back, we paid first and last month and she went back to the daycare. Fast forward to recently her school district opened back up, we thought it would be best for her if she went back to public school in hybrid fashion versus staying at the daycare and being 100% virtual. When we told the daycare, we got a random text the next day saying "I will have to think about your 3 year old as your oldest going back to school puts us at risk..." We then showed up the next day and all hell broke loose. We basically were told that neither kid could come back. 6 years of a relationship down the tubes in 5 minutes. Whatever we move on. Now today we get a letter with 2 weeks for each kid being withheld from our deposit, etc because we "failed to give written notice." It was my understanding that we were removed, we didnt withdraw. Also the VERY FIRST contact only states 1 week. But we only have a contract for one kid at this point. My oldest that came back we never saw any paperwork. So at some point it changed and shes just angry at this point and trying to hold funds from us.

Thats bascially where I am at... a certified letter sent in the mail with the full amount owed and 30 days before I file small claims. Sigh...

There is no written agreement to give written notice. Hard for the daycare to argue that there is an oral agreement to give written notice or else 2 weeks pay for services not delivered. Daycare terminated oral agreement. Who’s to say they don’t owe you two weeks of salary for time off work finding a new provider?

Fact is you didn’t agree to 2 weeks and you did not terminate your verbal agreement.

 

[Elway]

Would need to review the original contract, it is possible that there is a clause that states it applies to subsequent enrollment of the same child and/or members of the immediate family.

If not, then they owe you all the money. If so, it sounds like they owe you one week per kid. Either way, small claims is your best bet, there is a good chance that they will cave and refund the entire deposit before the hearing.

 

[Singleton]

Okay so some back story. My 6 year old originally went to a daycare. At day 1 we signed a contract. Let me just say that we in no way had any worries of our kids safety, etc. When she turned 5 she went into public school. No big deal. We both agreed that we were done, etc. No written notice was given. We up until recently have been extremely nice towards one another. We have purchased and donated countless goods, provided pizza, etc... Nothing at that moment was ever said about notice, etc. My now 3 year old had been attending since he was 6 months. When corona happened the public school shut down. We asked if my oldest could come back, we paid first and last month and she went back to the daycare. Fast forward to recently her school district opened back up, we thought it would be best for her if she went back to public school in hybrid fashion versus staying at the daycare and being 100% virtual. When we told the daycare, we got a random text the next day saying "I will have to think about your 3 year old as your oldest going back to school puts us at risk..." We then showed up the next day and all hell broke loose. We basically were told that neither kid could come back. 6 years of a relationship down the tubes in 5 minutes. Whatever we move on. Now today we get a letter with 2 weeks for each kid being withheld from our deposit, etc because we "failed to give written notice." It was my understanding that we were removed, we didnt withdraw. Also the VERY FIRST contact only states 1 week. But we only have a contract for one kid at this point. My oldest that came back we never saw any paperwork. So at some point it changed and shes just angry at this point and trying to hold funds from us.

Thats bascially where I am at... a certified letter sent in the mail with the full amount owed and 30 days before I file small claims. Sigh...

what does the contract say for the 3yo

 

[dnewps]

Would need to review the original contract, it is possible that there is a clause that states it applies to subsequent enrollment of the same child and/or members of the immediate family.

If not, then they owe you all the money. If so, it sounds like they owe you one week per kid. Either way, small claims is your best bet, there is a good chance that they will cave and refund the entire deposit before the hearing.

Provider terminated the agreement.

 

[ka0tyk]

what does the contract say for the 3yo

1 week only if we withdraw without a weeks written notice. We also received a letter stating the deduction “for failure to provide one weeks written notice”. But we didn’t withdraw...

I’m not trying to take her to the bank I just want what’s owed and to end this nonsense. She went crazy about this coronavirus thing. Called my wife a liar and selfish because we chose for our kid to go back to school. Literally in 5 minutes, a 6 year relationship disappeared...

 

[Elway]

Provider terminated the agreement.

Maybe. It could be that they mutually terminated the existing continuous enrollment, but agreement provides that subsequent enrollments are governed by the agreement. At that point the question is what the parties Intended to terminate when the original 3yo stopped attending.

Of course this is all speculating that there is even such a clause, but I have seen them in various forms so I would check for something similar.

 

[Singleton]

1 week only if we withdraw without a weeks written notice. We also received a letter stating the deduction “for failure to provide one weeks written notice”. But we didn’t withdraw...

I’m not trying to take her to the bank I just want what’s owed and to end this nonsense. She went crazy about this coronavirus thing. Called my wife a liar and selfish because we chose for our kid to go back to school. Literally in 5 minutes, a 6 year relationship disappeared...

IMO, 2 weeks total IF you withdrew.
Sounds like she terminated the contract, so no withholding $$

 

[dnewps]

“We were basically told neither kid could come back”

Your Honor,
The daycare refused to provide further service because of Covid yet charged me for two weeks of daycare that they did not provide and I did not agree to.

What are they going to say? I cannot imagine a written contract that wouldn’t be exculpatory let alone a verbal one.

 

[Tooms22]

Lots of factors here.

It seems like there's only a 1 week liquidated damages provision if you don't give notice. So it should never be two weeks each.

Also, if the first was terminated, you cannot enforce provisions from the first unless, like others have said, there is a provision to cover subsequent services. That seems unlikely.

The courts would more than likely look at the relationship during the time without a contract and award money for any services provided and not paid by you. But in this situation, it seems like you were up to date on all of your payments.

So I would say you have a pretty solid shot in small claims.

Just remember small claims is full of a bunch of shenanigans that the judge has to deal with on the daily. They're constantly having to tell people to stop being idiots. If you show up with organized evidence, respect the judge, and not speak over the judge or the other party, you will be light years ahead of 99% of the people in there.

 

[C-2]

How about this logic...

A.) Check for an "Entire Agreement" clause in contract 1 which may limit/preclude any subsequent informal agreements under the original contract, thus putting you in a verbal agreement contract where no "notice" provisions would be applicable.

B.) See if there is an Arbitration Clause - to make sure you can go to Small Claims

C.) The core of your case is termination. If you can prove she terminated whatever form of agreement you had (verbal or continuation of contract 1) - then she has no right to withhold.

The text where she had to "think about it" (continued attendance) suggests/supports termination by the daycare. It will be critical since it sounds like neither party terminated, or withdrew, in writing. Written evidence, even if circumstantial (emails, texts), may tip the scale to your favor because she will never admit she terminated the agreement.

 

[lbhsbz]

The contract was null and void the second you removed your older one from the daycare....it was a mutual voiding of said contract as evident by the fact that no action was taken at that time or near that time to recover money owed by you to the daycare.

Your youngest is there without a contract, and your oldest went back without a contract. Why did you pay first and last months fees?....was there not some sort of contract or written agreement in place that gave you reason to do so? Our kid has been in private school since day one...(call it daycare if you will)...and we have the option to pay the year in full or pay monthly....with a small registration fee at the beginning of the year. You're not renting a fucking house, you're paying for a service provided.

I'd tell them to fuckoff and file a suit against them using the above logic before they file a suit against you. You'll win. All you have to say is "they're trying to take advantage of us because of COVID".

 

[mash on it]

You're not renting a fucking house, you're paying for a service provided.

I'd tell them to fuckoff.

This.
Well said.


Dan'l.

 

[outboard_256]

The contract was null and void the second you removed your older one from the daycare....it was a mutual voiding of said contract as evident by the fact that no action was taken at that time or near that time to recover money owed by you to the daycare.

Your youngest is there without a contract, and your oldest went back without a contract. Why did you pay first and last months fees?....was there not some sort of contract or written agreement in place that gave you reason to do so? Our kid has been in private school since day one...(call it daycare if you will)...and we have the option to pay the year in full or pay monthly....with a small registration fee at the beginning of the year. You're not renting a fucking house, you're paying for a service provided.

I'd tell them to fuckoff and file a suit against them using the above logic before they file a suit against you. You'll win. All you have to say is "they're trying to take advantage of us because of COVID".

problem is he already paid so telling them to f-off is fine if he doesn't want his money back. I suggest getting a lawyer. They will have this resolved in a matter of days vs months of work and fee's going through small claims court.

 

[outboard_256]

any update on this? Did you get your money back?

 

[ka0tyk]

still in progress.

 

[RiverDave]

1 week only if we withdraw without a weeks written notice. We also received a letter stating the deduction “for failure to provide one weeks written notice”. But we didn’t withdraw...

I’m not trying to take her to the bank I just want what’s owed and to end this nonsense. She went crazy about this coronavirus thing. Called my wife a liar and selfish because we chose for our kid to go back to school. Literally in 5 minutes, a 6 year relationship disappeared...

You didn’t have a relationship with this person, you just thought that you did

 

[ka0tyk]

You didn’t have a relationship with this person, you just thought that you did

No I think shes just used to playing the victim, as well as only being around small children 24-7 and always being in control "her way" all the time.