Cops and Unemployment...

[Guest]

The incident that led to Wicky's frustration...

 

[musicFunsun]

:lmao

 

[Tom Brown]

lol!

 

[TPC]

Wife and I are taking a young LAPD officer to lunch today.

He's the father of four excellent little kids, and has barely recovered from recieving 5 gunshot wounds while apprehending a burgarly suspect.

His shooting never made the news that we could find.
Incidents like this used to shock people.

I haven't worked since Mar 1st. Do you think it's because of this incident?

 

[musicFunsun]

We've all been pulled over and thought we really didn't deserve it. Perhap the officer had more of an attitude then we thought necessary. Bottom line, its a tough and thankless job. Few want it. But most important is that officer is someone's son/daughter, wife/husband, mother/father and should be treated with respect.

PS. I clap and say hooray when they finally pull that schmuck over that is in the carpool lane driving alone or pulling a trailer!!!!!!

 

[catman-do]

WICKY and RATSO

While I do see where you are coming from in terms of arming yourself. As I also have several guns, and if someone was to break into my house while I was home, they would be shot down. However, I dont carry a gun everywhere I go, sometimes I keep them at home in the safe. So think what would happen to the burglary suspects midset if they knew everyone had guns. They to would carry guns, and we would see a ton of gun battles on the news every night. In many cases I think it would be the robber that wins because while you might know how to shoot a gun, many americans own guns and dont know how to properly shoot. So you would end up with a crook that goes shooting several times a week, doing battle with a homeowner that shot once... just after they bought the gun. I shoot once every other week to ensure that my skills dont diminish, but most people DONT, and therefore there are a ton of people that would accidentally kill their kids, or miss the perp and kill someone else that is innocent.

As far as beat cops that are there to pull people over. Im not sure what town your in, but if a majority of the problems come from drinking, then thats what they are going to spend a majority of the resources to stop.

Again Wicky, you never answered what county you live in? Calling everyone pussies, yet you wont answer several peoples questions. Leads one to question who is the real pussy here.

 

[catman-do]

PS. I clap and say hooray when they finally pull that schmuck over that is in the carpool lane driving alone or pulling a trailer!!!!!!

This really irritates me!!! I think they should require people to take some type of test before buying a trailer. I see too many people pulling boats and toy haulers through the carpool lane. Stay in the right two lanes! Get into the third from the right only to pass ONE vehicle!! :swear

 

[musicFunsun]

Glad you agree.

I traval 100 miles round trip 5 days a week. The 210 between LA and Rancho is the worst for that!! I see it at least once a week, more often in the summer! Big rigs in the # 2 lane also. Freeken oakies...........don't they know its illegal??

 

[Wicky]

:beer Here's to good cops, job security, the criminal element, gun control, Hillary Clinton, cuban cigars, bill clinton, slow boats, slow women, cholestoral, boxed wine, a Democrat in the white house, rap music, and the end of my rant.

 

[musicFunsun]

Good save, Wicky

 

[JetBoatCop]

WOW! I wish I worked for the S.O. of the county you live in (which he'll probably never tell us). Who is this Wicky guy????? It sounds to me like you don't know the first thing about law enforcement, except from what you've "heard" from other people. Not a lot of people actually understand what police do unless they are a cop or have riden out.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

WOW! I wish I worked for the S.O. of the county you live in (which he'll probably never tell us). Who is this Wicky guy????? It sounds to me like you don't know the first thing about law enforcement, except from what you've "heard" from other people. Not a lot of people actually understand what police do unless they are a cop or have riden out.

Yep. In my 25 years, we were way too busy doing police work to spend much time working traffic. As a supervisor, I wanted my guys working cases not writing scratches.
'Course, that is just my individual experience. Arguing about this crap on the internet is pretty much pointless, so I rarely rise to the bait.

 

[BoatCop]

I can tell you that my division uses no tax dollars (General fund) or ticket revenue. We are 100% funded for salaries and associated costs, operation and maintenance, etc. through boat registration fees. Our boats, equipment and the facility that we operate out of are procured through grants with funding from state marine fuel taxes.

In other words, the people who use our services (boaters) are the ones paying for those services.

There are surcharges placed on OUI (and DUI) fines for state prison construction ($500) and DPS (Highway Patrol) safety equipment (another $500). I fought against the DPS funding, since they do absolutely no watercraft enforcement whatsoever. It was just a way for the legislature to help fund them and the prisons without raising taxes.

In general, fines collected by a city go about 20% to the State. 72% to the city and 8 percent to the court. It's up to the city whether they want to give any of the fine money directly to the PD. But most set the PD budget regardless of fine intake.

For Counties, it's 21% to the state, 71% to the County General Fund and 8% to the Court. Again, no money goes directly to the Sheriff and our budget is not in any way connected to fines received.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Alan, my friend, methinks you are wasting yer effort.
I was gonna break it all down too, but just couldn't bring myself to hash this out again.

 

[JetBoatCop]

Yep. In my 25 years, we were way too busy doing police work to spend much time working traffic. As a supervisor, I wanted my guys working cases not writing scratches.
'Course, that is just my individual experience. Arguing about this crap on the internet is pretty much pointless, so I rarely rise to the bait.

I agree. It seems like no one likes the police until they need them, then they will find something to complain on them about. You're right, no point in arguing this over the internet.

 

[Ratso]

I agree. It seems like no one likes the police until they need them, then they will find something to complain on them about. You're right, no point in arguing this over the internet.

I am not knocking the police, I have relatives that I am very close to that are cops, and also a couple of very close friends... very respectable individuals. I have never "needed" the police though. I would rather take care of business in my own way.

 

[SandbarScot]

Wicky and Ratso's opions are their own and certainly can not be changed. These opinions come from their experiences -which are mostly traffic and DUI related. That is because Wicky and Ratso are not dopers, burglars, robbers, rapists, or child molesters...therefore they believe the police need to spend more time on THESE more dangerous folks than there stupid-ass minor traffic violation.
What folks like Wicky and Ratso fail to realize is that most cops they see are not looking for there retarded traffic violation, they are probably on their way to a call and from there another call, then another. Traffic cars are few and far between. Most departments are understaffed and shoveling sh!t against the tide when it comes to keeping Part I crime rate down. If they get stopped for a traffic violation, questioned, and let go...it was a good cop looking for a reason to stop and talk to them to find out if they are capering serious crimes, on parole or probation, yada yada. That is what good street cops do. Traffic cops are a small unit among all of patrol...and they are supposed to write tickets to slow people down and get them to drive safe.

 

[Wicky]

Awesome avatar pic SBScot!! Nice boat too! If my boat were to leave the water as it appears in your avatar pic, I would get a ticket.:beer BTW...I was kicked of my lake this summer thus, interfering with my business not being able to operate. I own a waterski camp for kids. After being pulled over a few times for being overpowered by the same sherriff, I begged him to cite me for this violation. He wouldn't. I bailed to a different part of the lake. The lake has three counties within it. My boat was supposedly over powered which, after a little bit of research by the Coast Guard and the other LEs on the lake, my boat was determined to be perfectly legal. Even after the letter from the coast guard was written to the sherriff, the sherriff said he could still kick me off the lake if he WANTED to. If I claimed harrassment, don't you think that BC would have a target on my head? Oh yeah, no DUI here and no traffic tickets since 92Only two tickets in my life. Been pulled over a hell of a lot though.
Bad taste in my mouth,
Wicky

 

[Ratso]

Wicky and Ratso's opions are their own and certainly can not be changed. These opinions come from their experiences -which are mostly traffic and DUI related. .

Uh, no DUI here bud, and my last speeding ticket was around 02. I was speeding, didn't know it at the time because it's a speed trap, but write me up, no problem. I don't like being pulled over for bogus bullshit though when I KNOW their only intention is to write up DUIs over some bullshit .08 thing they pulled out of thin air... When I drink, I have a DD... If I'm at the lake drinking, I have a houseboat to crash on instead of driving home, and I'm only 3 miles from the lake. I just don't believe in harassment when you are doing nothing wrong.

 

[snake321]

Time to throw a donut in this thread....

 

[catman-do]

I think there has got to be SOME reason that this guy keep herrassing you. Maybe this guy has seen you before, and has run into you before (wether you remember or not) and maybe when it happened you were a pompus ass? If so, maybe thats why. You come on here and point fingers, accuse a general basis (should have just focused it on that particular person/ department), and make accusations. Then you call people on here out and say we are going to be pussies, and then you yourself will not answer half the questions that are thrown at you. Also made some comments that seem to be fairly inaccurate. Maybe you should take a step back, look at your approach to people, and re-evaluate why you think people come at you in a negative way.

 

[Wicky]

I think there has got to be SOME reason that this guy keep herrassing you. Maybe this guy has seen you before, and has run into you before (wether you remember or not) and maybe when it happened you were a pompus ass? If so, maybe thats why. You come on here and point fingers, accuse a general basis (should have just focused it on that particular person/ department), and make accusations. Then you call people on here out and say we are going to be pussies, and then you yourself will not answer half the questions that are thrown at you. Also made some comments that seem to be fairly inaccurate. Maybe you should take a step back, look at your approach to people, and re-evaluate why you think people come at you in a negative way.

Brilliant Catmandon't!!!

 

[sorry dog]

Welcome Wickymon.

I did consulting work for a PD and municipality before and at the time in '05. The flow of ticket money went from court clerk with the state court costs being around $90 and the city got around $15 of that. The city kept all of the fine portion and for speeding that is normally $60, but can vary from city to city.

Now...from a business perspective on writing traffic fines I find two ways to look at it and I'm going to use very general (flexible numbers) but you can get the idea

If you are looking at the marginal cost of adding one officer and equipment and paying for this solely through the additional revenue that this officer generates from traffic stops.

How many stops can this guy write on a 8 hour shift?

Well, a lot of assumption goes into this, but once you take out mandatory training time, vacation/sick days, time in the station, shift meetings, court time, getting to a prime enforcement area, etc. I would guess that you will average 4 hours of actual time looking at traffic out of an 8 hour shift. If he's good, the support systems are fast, and there are many offenders to pick from (there usually are somewhere)...maybe he can write 3 an hour. I've received many tickets and at a minimum it takes 10 minutes for a simple moving traffic violation (usually 15 to 20) and 5-10 minutes for him to reset and find another offender. Keep in mind I'm assuming a best case scenario where he works a place where he won't have to wait long like 285 in drive time hours...no shortage of offenders there...just ask JBB's son.

So that means he can churn out maybe 10 tickets a day...if he does nothing else (which ain't likely)... which according to my math earlier equals $750 in revenue a day...maybe about 200 working days so 150,000 in revenue (in reality I would actually guess that number to be 1/2 to 2/3 of that.

But if you look at the costs...labor + tax & insurance $45000
Car + fuel + maint = $20000

equipment + training = $5000

overhead + admin = $10,000

So that's 80k for having that guy.

So you gotta beat that for the business to make sense and the marginal cost of having that extra guy writing tickets

Maybe it could work, but it not a business that I would get into because there are always going to be other things that come up and cut his productivity down like what if the guy he pulls over has a warrant issued against him somewhere else...it might take an hour to figure out whether to hold him and wait for them to pick him up at the station or to let him go.

Other other way to look at it... which I suspect is closer to reality. The chief has a certain number of officers that he has designated for patrol. He figures he's going to has those guys whether they write one ticket or not because it's in his budget this year and it was in his budget last year...so it's a sunk cost to him. So if he were to directly get a share of the revenue then any extra revenue would a marginal gain to him. At the same time the chief is looking at arrest statistics and many might not want to see citations written fall as they would for criminal stats at that might be infered the patrols aren't doing their job.

So most of the time it doesn't make economic sense to make a business out of it...the only times when it might seem attractive is if they officer has few other constraints on his time. Which is why you are more likely to see this kind of stuff in small or low crime towns versus larger departments. BUT...there are still factors that make make it seem like a profitable thing to do when looked at from a budgetary point of view. However, I believe that most administrators of departments sooner or later will realize it doesn't really pay for itself. (except possibly the affore mentioned DUI's when I admit that I've never run the math on.) So I believe that they tend to concentrate on the statistics, reports, and other outside info to determine what level of enforcement to attempt to target with regards to traffic patrols.

 

[Sherpa]

WICKY and RATSO

While I do see where you are coming from in terms of arming yourself. As I also have several guns, and if someone was to break into my house while I was home, they would be shot down. However, I dont carry a gun everywhere I go, sometimes I keep them at home in the safe. So think what would happen to the burglary suspects midset if they knew everyone had guns. They to would carry guns, and we would see a ton of gun battles on the news every night. In many cases I think it would be the robber that wins because while you might know how to shoot a gun, many americans own guns and dont know how to properly shoot. So you would end up with a crook that goes shooting several times a week, doing battle with a homeowner that shot once... just after they bought the gun. I shoot once every other week to ensure that my skills dont diminish, but most people DONT, and therefore there are a ton of people that would accidentally kill their kids, or miss the perp and kill someone else that is innocent.

As far as beat cops that are there to pull people over. Im not sure what town your in, but if a majority of the problems come from drinking, then thats what they are going to spend a majority of the resources to stop.

Again Wicky, you never answered what county you live in? Calling everyone pussies, yet you wont answer several peoples questions. Leads one to question who is the real pussy here.

I disagree with some of what you wrote....... criminals committing a
burglary of homes tend to not carry guns. mainly because they are
trying to rip off empty homes, not occupied homes. hence, not much
need for a gun....... Home-invasion robbery is a different thing. they
are armed because they intend to confront and rob occupants.........

if the crooks are armed, it is maybe from guns taken from that house,
or intended for use in other ways... hell, I don't know, I'm not a cop
or a theif..

--Sherpa

 

[Wicky]

Welcome Wickymon.

I did consulting work for a PD and municipality before and at the time in '05. The flow of ticket money went from court clerk with the state court costs being around $90 and the city got around $15 of that. The city kept all of the fine portion and for speeding that is normally $60, but can vary from city to city.

Now...from a business perspective on writing traffic fines I find two ways to look at it and I'm going to use very general (flexible numbers) but you can get the idea

If you are looking at the marginal cost of adding one officer and equipment and paying for this solely through the additional revenue that this officer generates from traffic stops.

How many stops can this guy write on a 8 hour shift?

Well, a lot of assumption goes into this, but once you take out mandatory training time, vacation/sick days, time in the station, shift meetings, court time, getting to a prime enforcement area, etc. I would guess that you will average 4 hours of actual time looking at traffic out of an 8 hour shift. If he's good, the support systems are fast, and there are many offenders to pick from (there usually are somewhere)...maybe he can write 3 an hour. I've received many tickets and at a minimum it takes 10 minutes for a simple moving traffic violation (usually 15 to 20) and 5-10 minutes for him to reset and find another offender. Keep in mind I'm assuming a best case scenario where he works a place where he won't have to wait long like 285 in drive time hours...no shortage of offenders there...just ask JBB's son.

So that means he can churn out maybe 10 tickets a day...if he does nothing else (which ain't likely)... which according to my math earlier equals $750 in revenue a day...maybe about 200 working days so 150,000 in revenue (in reality I would actually guess that number to be 1/2 to 2/3 of that.

But if you look at the costs...labor + tax & insurance $45000
Car + fuel + maint = $20000

equipment + training = $5000

overhead + admin = $10,000

So that's 80k for having that guy.

So you gotta beat that for the business to make sense and the marginal cost of having that extra guy writing tickets

Maybe it could work, but it not a business that I would get into because there are always going to be other things that come up and cut his productivity down like what if the guy he pulls over has a warrant issued against him somewhere else...it might take an hour to figure out whether to hold him and wait for them to pick him up at the station or to let him go.

Other other way to look at it... which I suspect is closer to reality. The chief has a certain number of officers that he has designated for patrol. He figures he's going to has those guys whether they write one ticket or not because it's in his budget this year and it was in his budget last year...so it's a sunk cost to him. So if he were to directly get a share of the revenue then any extra revenue would a marginal gain to him. At the same time the chief is looking at arrest statistics and many might not want to see citations written fall as they would for criminal stats at that might be infered the patrols aren't doing their job.

So most of the time it doesn't make economic sense to make a business out of it...the only times when it might seem attractive is if they officer has few other constraints on his time. Which is why you are more likely to see this kind of stuff in small or low crime towns versus larger departments. BUT...there are still factors that make make it seem like a profitable thing to do when looked at from a budgetary point of view. However, I believe that most administrators of departments sooner or later will realize it doesn't really pay for itself. (except possibly the affore mentioned DUI's when I admit that I've never run the math on.) So I believe that they tend to concentrate on the statistics, reports, and other outside info to determine what level of enforcement to attempt to target with regards to traffic patrols.

Thanks SD!! If you study the DUI, look at the difference in revenue between .10 to .08. Take into consideration beyond fines, court costs, classes. Look closely at Attorneys fees(hehehehe that ones for you) and insurance increases and then you will see the money end of it.
Take care,
Wicky

 

[JetBoatCop]

I can't believe a mod hasn't locked this thread yet.

 

[Wicky]

I can't believe a mod hasn't locked this thread yet.

Why do you say that?

 

[kilrtoy]

Why do you say that?

because it is beyond stupid

 

[Wicky]

because it is beyond stupid

Sounds like you you have poopy pants to me!!

If it's so stupid why do you read it?

 

[catman-do]

Brilliant Catmandon't!!!

Wow, another witty comeback from wicky. Your a tool, and from what I gather not a sharp one either.

 

[Wicky]

Wow, another witty comeback from wicky. Your a tool, and from what I gather not a sharp one either.

Stupid is as stupid does...welcome to the butterknife drawer Barney Fife!!!

 

[kilrtoy]

Sounds like you you have poopy pants to me!!

If it's so stupid why do you read it?

Following idiots around is my job and this is right up my alley

 

[catman-do]

I disagree with some of what you wrote....... criminals committing a
burglary of homes tend to not carry guns. mainly because they are
trying to rip off empty homes, not occupied homes. hence, not much
need for a gun....... Home-invasion robbery is a different thing. they
are armed because they intend to confront and rob occupants.........

if the crooks are armed, it is maybe from guns taken from that house,
or intended for use in other ways... hell, I don't know, I'm not a cop
or a theif..

--Sherpa

If you went back and re-read my post. It was not based on today's situations that are most typical around the country. It is based on previous posts that Wicky had mentioned that he would rather police himself, and that if everyone had guns then there wouldnt be as many break-ins etc... So, I had mentioned the post you quoted, stating that if a robber knows then the chances of him getting fatally shot are increased, then the chances of a robber coming prepared for that with a gun are also higher. Also if a person doesnt know how to handle a gun the chances of a robber taking that persons gun from them and killing them are greater. If everyone had guns, then I would say a great majority would not be respoinsible gun owners, and would not have their guns in a gun safe. As we have seen many times before on "It Takes a Thief"

 

[catman-do]

Thanks SD!! If you study the DUI, look at the difference in revenue between .10 to .08. Take into consideration beyond fines, court costs, classes. Look closely at Attorneys fees(hehehehe that ones for you) and insurance increases and then you will see the money end of it.
Take care,
Wicky

Lets look at this. In the beginning of your thread you started out by saying the reason police do it is for revenues that will come back to the department. Then once everyone shot you down on your waaaay out there percentages, you changed it to the lawyers etc. that are behind it. While I agree that the lawyers are loving it, because they are gaining more profit from this, I dont agree with your original statement about the departments gaining tons of financial profit. Now, because the lawyers are making more money, does that mean more cops are going to be encouraged financially to pull more people over, no. They cannot gain financially from an outside source due to their work policies. It would be bribery.

 

[Ratso]

Where is that link on the Houston cops?:hmm

 

[Wicky]

Lets look at this. In the beginning of your thread you started out by saying the reason police do it is for revenues that will come back to the department. Then once everyone shot you down on your waaaay out there percentages, you changed it to the lawyers etc. that are behind it. While I agree that the lawyers are loving it, because they are gaining more profit from this, I dont agree with your original statement about the departments gaining tons of financial profit. Now, because the lawyers are making more money, does that mean more cops are going to be encouraged financially to pull more people over, no. They cannot gain financially from an outside source due to their work policies. It would be bribery.

They do where I live
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/news.asp?ID=1090&m=print

 

[ROC]

If policing wasn't a business, would there be enough taxation to afford policing? Hell no. Policing is a business. If tickets weren't written, jobs/officers would be cut. So, without tickets/citations/DUIs affecting the average joe who has a lot to lose, policing would have been out of business a long time ago. Look around you. How many tickets are actually written where lives could or would have been saved? It's all about emotion boys and girls. It used to be about protecting and serving. Not any more. It's about BUSINESS!!!!!! It's a billion dollar industry. Popcorn anyone? Here it comes!!!!!! I'm sick and tired of the po po saying they are saving me from me.
Anyone else feel the same way or are you to much of a pussy to say what you feel?

 

[catman-do]

They do where I live
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/news.asp?ID=1090&m=print

While that is a pretty nice salary. It is based off overtime, and not directly derived from the ticket itself. They just ran a news article here about a month ago on LAX cops that were making 200+ per year on overtime as well. One guy made over 250k! Anytime a cop goes to court while off duty they get overtime pay. Whether its for 10 minutes or not, and for a DUI or not.

 

[kilrtoy]

They do where I live
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/news.asp?ID=1090&m=print

Here is the pay scale
Police Cadet / Probationary Police Officer * $29,164.59
Police Officer ** $37,103.30 $51,540.32
Sr. Police Officer *** $52,647.66 $56,892.94
Police Sergeant **** $63,637.86 $69,383.34
Police Lieutenant **** $71,435.00 $77,875.20
Police Captain **** $81,804.32 $89,211.46
Assistant Police Chief $114,793.38 $120,563.56
Executive Assistant Police Chief $132,620.02 $139,334.00

So with that said 100 K in overtime

that is 26.84 an hour
ot rate is 40.26

so 100K divided by 40.26 ='s 2483 hours a year in ot
divided by 12 months is 206 hours ot a month
in addition to 160 worked
is 366 a month
...
Ok Maybe one guy did this
but that is so far out of the norm ...
that means he worked 7 days a week 13 hours a day...
NICE LIFE....

Jesus get over it.....

 

[Wicky]

Here is the pay scale
Police Cadet / Probationary Police Officer * $29,164.59
Police Officer ** $37,103.30 $51,540.32
Sr. Police Officer *** $52,647.66 $56,892.94
Police Sergeant **** $63,637.86 $69,383.34
Police Lieutenant **** $71,435.00 $77,875.20
Police Captain **** $81,804.32 $89,211.46
Assistant Police Chief $114,793.38 $120,563.56
Executive Assistant Police Chief $132,620.02 $139,334.00

So with that said 100 K in overtime

that is 26.84 an hour
ot rate is 40.26

so 100K divided by 40.26 ='s 2483 hours a year in ot
divided by 12 months is 206 hours ot a month
in addition to 160 worked
is 366 a month
...
Ok Maybe one guy did this
but that is so far out of the norm ...
that means he worked 7 days a week 13 hours a day...
NICE LIFE....

Jesus get over it.....

Please don't call me Jesus...that could lead to anger...anger could lead to this post being locked...only Jesus could unlock it...doh!! No donut for you. You have a boat payment to make!!:beer

 

[JetBoatCop]

kilrtoy, you're right, this thread is beyond stupid now. It's just funny to watch certain people make fools of themselves.

 

[OCMerrill]

kilrtoy, you're right, this thread is beyond stupid now. It's just funny to watch certain people make fools of themselves.

Thats not very nice to single me out like that.

 

[Wicky]

Originally Posted by JetBoatCop
kilrtoy, you're right, this thread is beyond stupid now. It's just funny to watch you make a fool out of yourself.

:smackhead

 

[jordy]

Damn Wicky, hell of a catch on this fishing trip!!!! MOW!!!!

 

[jordy]

Hey Wicky, you just need to get a tattoo like Brown and JBB have:

 

[Wicky]

Damn Wicky, hell of a catch on this fishing trip!!!! MOW!!!!

Thanks Jordy!! Baitfishing is fun but, I definitely like to troll too!! You can really horse those trollfish in!!

 

[JetBoatCop]

Reguarding post 94: Wow, how mature. Wicky

 

[Wicky]

Hey Wicky, you just need to get a tattoo like Brown and JBB have:

Hah!! I need to make an appt for them to see my fiance. She just bought a Revlite 4000 Laser that will remove those tatoos in a matter of minutes. How about you Jordy? ARe you re-thinking any of your inking?

 

[Wicky]

Reguarding post 94: Wow, how immature. You know perps like you need to be locked up Wicky!! I deal with assholes like Wicky all the time and quite frankly I should put a cap in your ass Wicky

 

[socalmoney]

Wicky, are you adding stuff to people's quotes to make them look bad?