Could have been a lot worse

[FROGMAN524]

IS THIS HOW OUR RV JOURNEY ENDS? | CRASH VIDEO! - YouTube

Follow-up from the guy

WE'RE OK, WHAT NOW?? - YouTube

I've driven this highway 20 a few times in the winter and it is steep and windy as seen above. Very scary at times.

 

[Ziggy]

Wow. Blessed guy to have it happen on the mountain side vs the rail side.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

"I thought in four wheel high we wouldn't have very many problems at that speed"

4 wheel drive don't mean 4 wheel stop my friend

 

[DLC]

The video makes it appear he is driving a lot faster than 30mph. Glad nobody go hurt! It could been a lot worse.

once you start to slide its gone!

 

[JD D05]

I drive winter conditions like this and worse all year basically heading into any big storm for snowmobiles. This was just to much speed for the conditions which I get that's obvious. I am surprised it does not happen more often than it does.

 

[JD D05]

The video makes it appear he is driving a lot faster than 30mph. Glad nobody go hurt! It could been a lot worse.

once you start to slide its gone!

For me when I drive and tow in this stuff I gear down to try and prevent using the brakes at all. You will always have people behind you irritated but all well.

 

[Singleton]

Toys can be replaced, family can’t.
Lucky everyone walked away.

That truck is more then capable of that trailer. Speed was the issue. wonder if he had the Exhaust brake on. That should of cut the speed no matter what the hill was like.

 

[hallett21]

Can’t tell if he’s pumping the brakes or that’s just how they flash. Something tells me he knew he was going to fast before that turn.


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[rrrr]

He made the mistake that's common among the inexperienced. Having four wheel drive doesn't do shit when braking on low traction surfaces.

His situational awareness was poor. Although he claimed otherwise, that much precipitation doesn't appear out of nowhere. Weather forecasts and radar are available with little effort, and it's imprudent to get on the road without first checking what's going on. The amount and rate of snow and ice accumulation on the road doesn't square with what he said was clear and dry five or ten minutes prior.

He didn't recognize the road conditions were deteriorating second by second. The noise made by the precipitation when it hit the windshield was an obvious clue it was not just snow, but ice. It was hitting the roadway, partially melting, then refreezing.

That the snow and ice accumulated quickly is evidence the temperature had been below freezing for some time, which meant that road conditions, particularly bridges, were going to become increasingly dangerous. The lane surface cleared by previous traffic was quickly disappearing, and it was completely covered where he lost control.

The rig wasn't going 33 MPH as he claimed. I estimated the distance between the yellow signs marking a curve was about 200', and measuring the elapsed time as passed them worked out to a speed between 41 and 47 MPH, or 60-70 feet per second. A look at the truck's tires reveal they were pretty much a highway tread, and the trailer tires were no doubt the same. Braking action would have been minimal.

He spent much time in the second video making excuses, essentially claiming the precipitation appeared out of nowhere and that he was going 33 MPH, or 48 feet per second. A simpler and more believable explanation would have been "I was going too fast for the conditions and crashed."

 

[aka619er]

I couldn't believe when the person behind parked and jumped out. All I though was anybody else coming down the hill is in danger now.

 

[coolchange]

Don't see how you can figure any other expected outcome than what happened.

 

[Singleton]

He made the mistake that's common among the inexperienced. Having four wheel drive doesn't do shit when braking on low traction surfaces.

His situational awareness was poor. Although he claimed otherwise, that much precipitation doesn't appear out of nowhere. Weather forecasts and radar are available with little effort, and it's imprudent to get on the road without first checking what's going on. The amount and rate of snow and ice accumulation on the road doesn't square with what he said was clear and dry five or ten minutes prior.

He didn't recognize the road conditions were deteriorating second by second. The noise made by the precipitation when it hit the windshield was an obvious clue it was not just snow, but ice. It was hitting the roadway, partially melting, then refreezing.

That the snow and ice accumulated quickly is evidence the temperature had been below freezing for some time, which meant that road conditions, particularly bridges, were going to become increasingly dangerous. The lane surface cleared by previous traffic was quickly disappearing, and it was completely covered where he lost control.

The rig wasn't going 33 MPH as he claimed. I estimated the distance between the yellow signs marking a curve was about 200', and measuring the elapsed time as passed them worked out to a speed between 41 and 47 MPH, or 60-70 feet per second. A look at the truck's tires reveal they were pretty much a highway tread, and the trailer tires were no doubt the same. Braking action would have been minimal.

He spent much time in the second video making excuses, essentially claiming the precipitation appeared out of nowhere and that he was going 33 MPH, or 48 feet per second. A simpler and more believable explanation would have been "I was going too fast for the conditions and crashed."

IMO, Second video was made to CYA when the insurance company reviews first video.
Multiple questions he will have to deal with from insurance. Since it was a signal vehicle accident, no police report will be issued, so that part saves him some questions. Insurance will rule speed and conditions were cause.

Conditions like that don’t appear out of no where. Being in SoCal, my trailer does not move until I check the wind conditions. If gusts over 40, I park and relax until better. usually will drive with winds under 30.

 

[JD D05]

He made the mistake that's common among the inexperienced. Having four wheel drive doesn't do shit when braking on low traction surfaces.

His situational awareness was poor. Although he claimed otherwise, that much precipitation doesn't appear out of nowhere. Weather forecasts and radar are available with little effort, and it's imprudent to get on the road without first checking what's going on. The amount and rate of snow and ice accumulation on the road doesn't square with what he said was clear and dry five or ten minutes prior.

He didn't recognize the road conditions were deteriorating second by second. The noise made by the precipitation when it hit the windshield was an obvious clue it was not just snow, but ice. It was hitting the roadway, partially melting, then refreezing.

That the snow and ice accumulated quickly is evidence the temperature had been below freezing for some time, which meant that road conditions, particularly bridges, were going to become increasingly dangerous. The lane surface cleared by previous traffic was quickly disappearing, and it was completely covered where he lost control.

The rig wasn't going 33 MPH as he claimed. I estimated the distance between the yellow signs marking a curve was about 200', and measuring the elapsed time as passed them worked out to a speed between 41 and 47 MPH, or 60-70 feet per second. A look at the truck's tires reveal they were pretty much a highway tread, and the trailer tires were no doubt the same. Braking action would have been minimal.

He spent much time in the second video making excuses, essentially claiming the precipitation appeared out of nowhere and that he was going 33 MPH, or 48 feet per second. A simpler and more believable explanation would have been "I was going too fast for the conditions and crashed."

Spot on! All the talk of these conditions coming out of nowhere is pointless. Adjusting to them takes seconds.

The driver of the Semi saw this coming

 

[FROGMAN524]

I couldn't believe when the person behind parked and jumped out. All I though was anybody else coming down the hill is in danger now.

You can hear her talking to him on the radio from her Jeep. They seem like they are traveling together as she is probably his wife and that was probably his daughter in the Jeep crying out when the crash occurred. Either way she should have pulled over somewhere besides the lane she was in.

 

[FROGMAN524]

He made the mistake that's common among the inexperienced. Having four wheel drive doesn't do shit when braking on low traction surfaces.

His situational awareness was poor. Although he claimed otherwise, that much precipitation doesn't appear out of nowhere. Weather forecasts and radar are available with little effort, and it's imprudent to get on the road without first checking what's going on. The amount and rate of snow and ice accumulation on the road doesn't square with what he said was clear and dry five or ten minutes prior.

He didn't recognize the road conditions were deteriorating second by second. The noise made by the precipitation when it hit the windshield was an obvious clue it was not just snow, but ice. It was hitting the roadway, partially melting, then refreezing.

That the snow and ice accumulated quickly is evidence the temperature had been below freezing for some time, which meant that road conditions, particularly bridges, were going to become increasingly dangerous. The lane surface cleared by previous traffic was quickly disappearing, and it was completely covered where he lost control.

The rig wasn't going 33 MPH as he claimed. I estimated the distance between the yellow signs marking a curve was about 200', and measuring the elapsed time as passed them worked out to a speed between 41 and 47 MPH, or 60-70 feet per second. A look at the truck's tires reveal they were pretty much a highway tread, and the trailer tires were no doubt the same. Braking action would have been minimal.

He spent much time in the second video making excuses, essentially claiming the precipitation appeared out of nowhere and that he was going 33 MPH, or 48 feet per second. A simpler and more believable explanation would have been "I was going too fast for the conditions and crashed."

If you look at the bottom right of the first video, you can see he was traveling 39MPH when he lost control and about 34 when he impacted the embankment.

 

[25Elmn8r]

Clear case of too fast for the conditions. As has been said, these conditions don't come out of nowhere. I was watching that video thinking they really should slow down!

 

[traquer]

Too fast. I'd be going slower even without a trailer.

Also drive according to temps. If it's warm during the day and you can see the driven spots are all wet and melted snow, drive there. If it's very cold, night or freezing rain like it is here, then you drive on the snow as there's more traction than on ice.

Thanks for sharing so we can all learn and glad they're ok.

 

[yard dog]

Toys can be replaced, family can’t.
Lucky everyone walked away.

That truck is more then capable of that trailer. Speed was the issue. wonder if he had the Exhaust brake on. That should of cut the speed no matter what the hill was like.

Jake or exhaust brakes ONLY slows the truck so the trailer is still moving, this can cause your trailer to swing out behind you . I would recommend not using a jake or exhaust brake in snow or icy conditions .

 

[coolchange]

The guy doesn't listen to his own sentences.
If I or someone else starts with," it'll be okay, should be, just, all you have to do is, ...." Those are ques to me that some Tomfuckery is about to unfold.

 

[DLC]

For me when I drive and tow in this stuff I gear down to try and prevent using the brakes at all. You will always have people behind you irritated but all well.

thats what I do also! Those conditions would be like 2nd gear, maybe 1st gear depending on feel of the road

 

[Singleton]

Jake or exhaust brakes only slow the truck so the trailer is still moving, this can cause your trailer to swing out behind you . I would recommend not using a jake or exhaust brake in snow or icy conditions .

I use mine, but I also have brakes on all 3 axles on the trailer.

 

[Bigbore500r]

He was bookin it pretty good for those conditions. That sweeper was way too much for the speed

 

[DILLIGAF]

Agreed that it could have been a lot worse. Speed was the factor IMO.

Glad they are all OK......

 

[Bear Down]

I would be going about 25 max in those conditions probably a little slower actually. I have a question for the well experienced, when I used to pull my WW 40' 5th wheel in similar bad conditions in addition to gearing down I would use my brake controller and use the trailer brakes only as a way to slow down versus tapping my truck brakes which I felt could get loose in the current condition I was driving in. Is that a bad move? Trailer was fully loaded and I was at 39k #'s with truck and trailer.

 

[yard dog]

I use mine, but I also have brakes on all 3 axles on the trailer.

I use mine, but I also have brakes on all 3 axles on the trailer.

. I will clarify my statement, only using the jake or exhaust brake to slow down the set would cause that, but used with the service brakes and the jake together is Acceptable so long as you apply the service brake first using light pressure then switch the jake on then switch off the jake before letting up on service brakes .

 

[Motor Boater]

I grew up in the snow. The majority of the vehicles you see in the ditch are 4 wheel drive trucks. People think they are invincible in a 4x4 and as stated it doesn’t help you stop. He should have been crawling down that hill. My dad had to drive 50 miles on the highway to work at all different hours. During the winter, snowing like crazy and in 33 years he never owned a 4x4. Always front wheel drive cars with snow tires. Never had an issue, not once.

 

[X-rated]

Fukn moron......See it all the time here in the frozen north!!! We run back and forth over the Rogers Pass with snowmobiles 15-20 times a year, pretty much seen it all. 95% of the time it is 100% TOO MUCH SPEED!!! Absolutely the case here!

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

I've got a question for those of you guys with experience in those kind of conditions. Let me start by saying I know knowing about snow or ice driving, but it thinking about it from a basic physics stand point it seems engine braking would be first choice as to not load the front tires of the truck to the point of loss of traction. The second thing seems like manually activating the trailer brake with the controller would help slow the rig from behind leasing the chance of loosing steering.

Am I far off on my hypothesis?

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[ArizonaKevin]

hard to tell from the video, do we think he locked up his breaks in prep for that corner? Or do we think he just understeered into the wall? If the latter, do we think that running in 4wd actually made it a bit worse?

 

[Ziggy]

My opinion is the weight/force of the trailer pushed straight ahead as he tapped the brakes and caused truck to loose contact with road surface.
Speed highly likely a component of wrongs.
.
Someone mentions him pulsating brakes but LED lights on video always do that.
Either way, he's a lucky MFer.

 

[JD D05]

hard to tell from the video, do we think he locked up his breaks in prep for that corner? Or do we think he just understeered into the wall? If the latter, do we think that running in 4wd actually made it a bit worse?

What happened had noting to do with 4 wheel drive. The only thing he could of done to maybe save it and it is a big maybe is release the brakes and hope he had enough grip to hold the turn, but than he has the next turn...

 

[WhatExit?]

If you look at the bottom right of the first video, you can see he was traveling 39MPH when he lost control and about 34 when he impacted the embankment.

Yup, 39 MI/H

 

[Rotten deal]

The continental 19.5s that come on f450 have
terrible traction. Super hard ,narrow and made for mileage. Bad combo of speed conditions and tires.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

For those that watched not on cell but laptop.... how bout that 18 wheeler coming right at him .... lucky he had grip. Our boy in the F450 hit black ice. Oh and I advise to get that kid to therapy.

 

[JD D05]

For those that watched not on cell but laptop.... how bout that 18 wheeler coming right at him .... lucky he had grip. Our boy in the F450 hit black ice.

That isn't black ice.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

That isn't black ice.

Ive been wrong before

 

[X-rated]

I have pulled a handful of trailer brake more than once, sometimes it actually works. The best idea is to not let it get to that point. The comment about using engine braking is not usually the right thing to do because it doesn't slow the trailer, which by the way usually weighs twice as much or more than the truck! Start slow at the break of the hill and stay slow. ICE IS FUCKING SLIPPERY!11

 

[JD D05]

Ive been wrong before

Black ice to me anyways looks like wet pavement with no other visual signs really to see it. I drove home from WY last night towing a trailer and was looking at any car that went past me to see if mist or moisture was coming off the tires.

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

Black ice to me anyways looks like wet pavement with no other visual signs really to see it. I drove home from WY last night towing a trailer and was looking at any car that went past me to see if mist or moisture was coming off the tires.

Never thought about checking for tire spray.


Good idea

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[Waterjunky]

My first thoughts within a second or so of that video were "He's moving way too fast". I would have guessed 40 -45. He should have been moving 20 give or take.

Simple accident to avoid. The guy almost orphaned his kid and widowed his wife with them watching.

We have all done things like that and usually gotten away with it but sometimes you push too far.

 

[RogerThat99]

I a lot of experience driving in conditions like that, snow & ice with steep grades. But I have zero experience towing something heavy in those conditions. I have driven faster than I should (sometimes), and lost traction like that or in the slush changing lanes. I always just let off the gas, no brakes, and slight wheel adjustments to hopefully keep the vehicle pointed in the right general direction (once again, I'm not towing at the time).

He was driving fast enough in the beginning of the video that it was making my nuts clinch up. Or maybe the video made it appear faster than it was. Like was said, stock tires are not good for the snow / ice at all.

 

[RogerThat99]

Since I have zero experience towing heavy in the snow. Let's talk this through, so we can learn from it (educate me).

First, you need better tires and start the downgrade going slower, and gear down. In California, they would most likely make him chain up the 5th wheel on all tires.

From start to finish, as he entered the downgrade... What should he have done to maintain a slow controllable speed? Leave exhaust brake off?

 

[Sherpa]

Way too fast for conditions. Way too fast. Driver error 9,000%. Hopefully anyone who watches this would learn from guys mistake.....

I would have been 2nd gear max doing 15-20...

sherpa

 

[spectras only]

At 0:43 seconds in the video, yellow sign clearly shows 40 mph before the winding road starts. That 40 mph meant for normal conditions clearly and warning the road ahead. I'm sure the highway department doesn't change signs for winter over summer driving. So. in the nutshell, he would have been OK driving half that speed before entering the curve of the road. All my winter driving to ski slopes in the past, I observed the majority of vehicles in ditches or off the roads in fields during winter were trucks and SUV's.
I live in snow country and many vehicles running studded tires here in the winter. When the road gets icy in higher elevation, studs/chain is the only way you have some control. I have a truck and SUV, when going downhill, I always use the manual mode [ most late model trucks/SUV's have it ] downshift gradually/gingerly is the word without using brakes. ABS is the worst to rely on snowy and icy roads.
This is our favourite highway to hone your skills driving in winter. About 10 min in the video is the steepest iciest part at the snowshed [ the kill zone ] where most accidents happen

 

[JD D05]

Since I have zero experience towing heavy in the snow. Let's talk this through, so we can learn from it (educate me).

First, you need better tires and start the downgrade going slower, and gear down. In California, they would most likely make him chain up the 5th wheel on all tires.

From start to finish, as he entered the downgrade... What should he have done to maintain a slow controllable speed? Leave exhaust brake off?

Chains will do nothing to help on the trailer and in Utah those roads in the video are not even close to needing or requiring chains.

When I enter a grade like that I have already brake checked a few times to know how slick it is already I usually do that going uphill or level. If I have good grip I don't really go any faster I just know what I am dealing with. When I start down I want to be at the speed I want to be prior, I don't want to get to my comfortable speed once I have started the grade. After that you just adjust with the conditions and what is safe.

Last year I was going on a trip and we were about 30 min out from the trailhead to ride sleds. This guy blows past me towing his trailer in bad conditions and he almost lost it when he merged. Turns out he was riding in our group and we all had to wait like 20 min for him and his buddy to get ready because they were slow to get gear on....???

 

[Canuck 1]

The simple explanation is inexperienced driver and shitty set up of rig, typical toy hauler junk design

1. lack of driving experience, took foot off gas and let trailer push him, should have stepped on gas pedal and applied trailer brakes at same time
2. shit tires on truck
3. too light tongue weight on trailer for winter driving, typical design flaw of all toyhaulers
4. Heavy wet snow, slow down if you can't drive

 

[FROGMAN524]

The simple explanation is inexperienced driver and shitty set up of rig, typical toy hauler junk design

1. lack of driving experience, took foot off gas and let trailer push him, should have stepped on gas pedal and applied trailer brakes at same time
2. shit tires on truck
3. too light tongue weight on trailer for winter driving, typical design flaw of all toyhaulers
4. Heavy wet snow, slow down if you can't drive

He better hope you’re not his claims adjuster!


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[Canuck 1]

He better hope you’re not his claims adjuster!


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Why, I would just write the check and get it off my desk and call him an idiot. Can't get to Havasu in winter without 1000 miles of shit roads and guys like that block the road

 

[JDKRXW]

Tons of stupidity in the video.......
The absolutely worst mistake made in this video wasn't the guy crashing the 5th wheel.
It was the wife......stopping where she did (to the rear of the crashed camper). Icy conditions, downhill, on a curve, where the accident had happened in front of her.
This was bad enough - then she got out!?!?!......with traffic going past!

She is very lucky her vehicle wasn't hit from behind and even luckier she didn't get creamed when she stepped out on the road.
She was L.U.C.K.Y. Someone was watching over her when this happened.

 

[JDKRXW]

I've got a question for those of you guys with experience in those kind of conditions.

The second thing seems like manually activating the trailer brake with the controller would help slow the rig from behind leasing the chance of loosing steering.

Am I far off on my hypothesis?

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Your #2 idea is right.
He was going way too fast for the road conditions......and his last hope of stopping the yard sale was:
1) hitting the brake controller....hard
2) not touching the brake pedal (the trailers forward momentum has broken the truck tires traction.....pushing it across the highway.
3) the hard part : not taking your foot off the gas. Not accelerating....but enough to stop any engine braking. Engine braking....even on a gas truck can make things even worse.

I think this case was hopeless. The other big deal that even experienced winter trailer drivers learn about on icy roads is the havoc a strong wind can cause.