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Covid death count wrong?! No way

DWC

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Way. Who knew. ;)

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Nikwho

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Well let's see, the state of Washington reported that 2020 was the first time in over 100 years that there were zero flu related deaths. So yeah, I'd say that numbers a a little skewed.
 

propcheck

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Now lets see where the health directors career path takes him/her my guess a cushy higher paying job in sac now that allegiance has been proven.
Oh and has anybody asked they will be returning the tax moneys stolen since all the care bills at higher rates for covid ?🤔 sounds like fraud to me
 

Nikwho

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Now lets see where the health directors career path takes him/her my guess a cushy higher paying job in sac now that allegiance has been proven.
Oh and has anybody asked they will be returning the tax moneys stolen since all the care bills at higher rates for covid ?🤔 sounds like fraud to me

Right!? Made man, now!
 

Christopher Lucero

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This is a single anecdote of my experience I want to share.
I used to do Kaplan-Meier analysis for a healthcare company. in some instances, when we had a new device or therapy we would manage our vigilance in the back office by migrating death cause to our worst case assessment until it could be ruled out. We had a troop of post mortem analysts who would need to contact doctors and review health records to achieve the ruling out judgement...sometimes, it would take months to commit to something statistically significant, worthy of public adjustment. Occasionally it would result in a voluntary recall of a medical device, which is costly and damaging to the company. It may be that this is industry practice. It made sense to our Chief Medical Officers. Corporate counsel, too. CFO, too. The entire C suite.
 
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nowski

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always planned to revise the number, once the fear, panic and control were in place and did their job of covering while the left stole the election.

Is this a valid example of common core math???
 

t&y

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This is a single anecdote of my experience I want to share.
I used to do Kaplan-Meier analysis for a healthcare company. in some instances, when we had a new device or therapy we would manage our vigilance in the back office by migrating death cause to our worst case assessment until it could be ruled out. We had a troop of post mortem analysts who would need to contact doctors and review health records to achieve the ruling out judgement...sometimes, it would take months to commit to something statistically significant, worthy of public adjustment. Occasionally it would result in a voluntary recall of a medical device, which is costly and damaging to the company. It may be that this is industry practice. It made sense to our Chief Medical Officers. Corporate counsel, too. CFO, too. The entire C suite.
Cool. So while doing that statistical analysis did your company lock down an entire country and force people to wear masks?
 

propcheck

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This is a single anecdote of my experience I want to share.
I used to do Kaplan-Meier analysis for a healthcare company. in some instances, when we had a new device or therapy we would manage our vigilance in the back office by migrating death cause to our worst case assessment until it could be ruled out. We had a troop of post mortem analysts who would need to contact doctors and review health records to achieve the ruling out judgement...sometimes, it would take months to commit to something statistically significant, worthy of public adjustment. Occasionally it would result in a voluntary recall of a medical device, which is costly and damaging to the company. It may be that this is industry practice. It made sense to our Chief Medical Officers. Corporate counsel, too. CFO, too. The entire C suite.
I do not think any therapy or device would pass analysis if you included patients that absolutely did not meet study criteria. you know how pissed off the “system” gets if you include a patient that does not qualify and it skews factoring.
the article literally states people who died from as a result of trauma were counted even though COVID had zero to do with the incident or death.
I feel sorry for all the families that did not get death benefits due to contract exclusions for global pandemics because some immoral character chose cash over caring for people.
 

Christopher Lucero

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Cool. So while doing that statistical analysis did your company lock down an entire country and force people to wear masks?
well, we did not have an entire country at risk. Our patients represented around 1 in 10 of those who needed heart rhythm management. our competitors shared the other 15 percent or so with us, and there were the remainder (75%) that were given meds or who opted out of treatment. The particular affliction our devices treated represented around 2% of deaths from all causes in USA.

FWIW, we could not 'force' anyone to do anything. It was a medical decision borne by the patients in consultation with their physicians.

A company does not wield the power that a government does. As a government employee, I believe you would know that quite well.

The entire world shut down in almost the same way. Places like NZ and Australia minimized infection by closing their borders, and it worked splendidly for them.

Not sure what you may believe the alternative was. Every government in the world - both honest and dishonest - made the same decision for their citizens.

Do you have a solution based on your expertise that would lead to less widespread suffering, death, and disease?
 

Christopher Lucero

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I do not think any therapy or device would pass analysis if you included patients that absolutely did not meet study criteria. you know how pissed off the “system” gets if you include a patient that does not qualify and it skews factoring.
the article literally states people who died from as a result of trauma were counted even though COVID had zero to do with the incident or death.
I feel sorry for all the families that did not get death benefits due to contract exclusions for global pandemics because some immoral character chose cash over caring for people.
I did speculate that it may have been industry practice. I do not know if the shade of difference in public heath schemas, under widespread disease, are comparable...as I stated, it is an anecdote sharing my private company experience.
our company was aligned in the direction I stated. Mostly, and probably in order to include the concerns you state, we did use the worst case to bin those that may be due compensation...also, as I stated, corporate counsel was part of the vigilance team.
 

Ragged Edge

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This is a single anecdote of my experience I want to share.
I used to do Kaplan-Meier analysis for a healthcare company. in some instances, when we had a new device or therapy we would manage our vigilance in the back office by migrating death cause to our worst case assessment until it could be ruled out. We had a troop of post mortem analysts who would need to contact doctors and review health records to achieve the ruling out judgement...sometimes, it would take months to commit to something statistically significant, worthy of public adjustment. Occasionally it would result in a voluntary recall of a medical device, which is costly and damaging to the company. It may be that this is industry practice. It made sense to our Chief Medical Officers. Corporate counsel, too. CFO, too. The entire C suite.

So..... is it industry practice to monetize a cause of death for a specific device, disease or virus, skewing the data to a degree that it's basically useless?
 

was thatguy

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So..... is it industry practice to monetize a cause of death for a specific device, disease or virus, skewing the data to a degree that it's basically useless?

Ah...useless to who?
 

was thatguy

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To anyone who wants to understand the real threat of this virus and whether it ever really deserved "pandemic" status, shut downs, mask mandates and moronic social distancing.

Agreed!
But that’s not what their data is all about.
It’s about advancing their agenda using blithering idiots as allies.
So for the wicked it’s extremely useful.
 

t&y

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well, we did not have an entire country at risk. Our patients represented around 1 in 10 of those who needed heart rhythm management. our competitors shared the other 15 percent or so with us, and there were the remainder (75%) that were given meds or who opted out of treatment. The particular affliction our devices treated represented around 2% of deaths from all causes in USA.

FWIW, we could not 'force' anyone to do anything. It was a medical decision borne by the patients in consultation with their physicians.

A company does not wield the power that a government does. As a government employee, I believe you would know that quite well.

The entire world shut down in almost the same way. Places like NZ and Australia minimized infection by closing their borders, and it worked splendidly for them.

Not sure what you may believe the alternative was. Every government in the world - both honest and dishonest - made the same decision for their citizens.

Do you have a solution based on your expertise that would lead to less widespread suffering, death, and disease?
Well gee I don't know Chris... I'm just a simple civil servant. But what I can tell you is myself and my partners didn't lock down in our house, didn't stop contacting random people in the streets, we were forced to stand face to face with thousands of screaming little bitches who refused to social distance and in many cases appeared to refused to practice basic hygiene. Sure some got sick, some got real sick, but the overwhelming majority of my partners suffered zero or minimal effects.

What I do know is that knowingly forcing the sick into places with the most vulnerable of potential victims is at a minimum gross negligence, could be murder. I also know that wearing the masks that are commonly seen and promoted by your hero's, is a fucking joke. I also know ordering people to stay in their homes, or home states, while traveling abroad, dining out with large groups, and only wearing that beloved mask while on camera is the typical hypocritical bullshit that the Libturds somehow seem to ignore every time.

Now in regards to the Vaccine... I'd only ask when was the last time a vaccine was developed, mass produced, and forced on the public within 9 months? When was the last time we had a sitting president stating there was no vaccine, at a time when he was on camera getting the vaccine? When was the last time we had a Vice President declaring on camera that they would not take any vaccine produced under a President from the other party? When was the last time states and governments were talking about requiring showing a Vaccine Card to move freely about in a free country?
 

stevesdcb

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No surprises here, typical California Democrate political BS, always changing the rules, bold face lying to the public, to fit their agenda. Hmmmm........could there be a pattern between lying on the number of Covid deaths & election results. All these dirty ass corrupt politicians & those behind the scenes clowning the sheep 24/7/365. When are people, sheep, going to wake the f..k up.
 

Tom Slick

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No surprises here, typical California Democrate political BS, always changing the rules, bold face lying to the public, to fit their agenda. Hmmmm........could there be a pattern between lying on the number of Covid deaths & election results. All these dirty ass corrupt politicians & those behind the scenes clowning the sheep 24/7/365. When are people, sheep, going to wake the f..k up.
Sadly the sheep will never wake up!
 

DWC

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Well gee I don't know Chris... I'm just a simple civil servant. But what I can tell you is myself and my partners didn't lock down in our house, didn't stop contacting random people in the streets, we were forced to stand face to face with thousands of screaming little bitches who refused to social distance and in many cases appeared to refused to practice basic hygiene. Sure some got sick, some got real sick, but the overwhelming majority of my partners suffered zero or minimal effects.

What I do know is that knowingly forcing the sick into places with the most vulnerable of potential victims is at a minimum gross negligence, could be murder. I also know that wearing the masks that are commonly seen and promoted by your hero's, is a fucking joke. I also know ordering people to stay in their homes, or home states, while traveling abroad, dining out with large groups, and only wearing that beloved mask while on camera is the typical hypocritical bullshit that the Libturds somehow seem to ignore every time.

Now in regards to the Vaccine... I'd only ask when was the last time a vaccine was developed, mass produced, and forced on the public within 9 months? When was the last time we had a sitting president stating there was no vaccine, at a time when he was on camera getting the vaccine? When was the last time we had a Vice President declaring on camera that they would not take any vaccine produced under a President from the other party? When was the last time states and governments were talking about requiring showing a Vaccine Card to move freely about in a free country?
Great post. I’d like to add…. A vaccine that doesn’t stop you from getting or transmitting the virus.
PS. When have we ever had to be bribed with money and drugs to get something that’s good for us?
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propcheck

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So..... is it industry practice to monetize a cause of death for a specific device, disease or virus, skewing the data to a degree that it's basically useless?
No it is not though different ailments or conditions bill out different as it pertains to treatments.
So should we be asking why the government made Covid care a premium service with a higher billing rate for hospital/corporations even though there was no cure/ treatment specific to the disease? The care was the same as other infectious disease care🤔
 

Christopher Lucero

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monetize a cause of death for a specific device, disease or virus
well, healthcare ain't free, so there is truth in this assertion.


skewing the data to a degree that it's basically useless
^^^uh, skewing in order to attain maximum vigilance is a customer expectation.^^^ (q.v, malpractice insurance, wrongful death tort law)

I know you were just having some fun by doing the passive aggressive thing, so I hope the factual responses can lead to further substantial dialogue on your opinions and ideas about health hazard assessment and response. You sound like you may have some background, so it may be illuminating.
 

Christopher Lucero

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Well gee I don't know Chris... I'm just a simple civil servant. But what I can tell you is myself and my partners didn't lock down in our house, didn't stop contacting random people in the streets, we were forced to stand face to face with thousands of screaming little bitches who refused to social distance and in many cases appeared to refused to practice basic hygiene. Sure some got sick, some got real sick, but the overwhelming majority of my partners suffered zero or minimal effects.

What I do know is that knowingly forcing the sick into places with the most vulnerable of potential victims is at a minimum gross negligence, could be murder. I also know that wearing the masks that are commonly seen and promoted by your hero's, is a fucking joke. I also know ordering people to stay in their homes, or home states, while traveling abroad, dining out with large groups, and only wearing that beloved mask while on camera is the typical hypocritical bullshit that the Libturds somehow seem to ignore every time.

Now in regards to the Vaccine... I'd only ask when was the last time a vaccine was developed, mass produced, and forced on the public within 9 months? When was the last time we had a sitting president stating there was no vaccine, at a time when he was on camera getting the vaccine? When was the last time we had a Vice President declaring on camera that they would not take any vaccine produced under a President from the other party? When was the last time states and governments were talking about requiring showing a Vaccine Card to move freely about in a free country?
you scamp. look at you doing the luchuro passive aggressive thing!
the question was if you had a better solution. I already knew you had an opinion.
try again
 

t&y

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you scamp. look at you doing the luchuro passive aggressive thing!
the question was if you had a better solution. I already knew you had an opinion.
try again
Hmmm Geeee... I don't know. How about we react to it like we did the last time. During the infamous killer bird flew I traveled the world. Super duper scary times. I and the majority lived just fine... Hmmmmm... kinda like now. Go figure.

But, there was civil unrest to support, and a Presidential Election to be had. So of course it was totally different this time around.
 

Ragged Edge

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No it is not though different ailments or conditions bill out different as it pertains to treatments.
So should we be asking why the government made Covid care a premium service with a higher billing rate for hospital/corporations even though there was no cure/ treatment specific to the disease? The care was the same as other infectious disease care🤔

I was being a bit cheeky with Chris, I know it's not industry practice but he put it out there as a possibility so it begged the question.

The real question is why did our government put a monetary incentive on diagnosing someone with Covid-19 as well as listing it as cause of death without requiring a test to confirm it? This incentive makes the "pandemic" appear much worse than it actually is/was and created a fear in the population that was unwarranted. Yes, we should be asking why, we should all be asking why. As well as why are they using the PCR test when it's known to be inaccurate and the inventor of the test claims "it wasn't meant as a diagnostic tool"? False positives can be very useful when you're sowing fear.
 

Ragged Edge

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well, healthcare ain't free, so there is truth in this assertion.



^^^uh, skewing in order to attain maximum vigilance is a customer expectation.^^^ (q.v, malpractice insurance, wrongful death tort law)

I know you were just having some fun by doing the passive aggressive thing, so I hope the factual responses can lead to further substantial dialogue on your opinions and ideas about health hazard assessment and response. You sound like you may have some background, so it may be illuminating.

Are you toying with me? You have to know the over estimated death toll is not about the cost of healthcare nor is it about vigilance. Do you think Alameda County is going to give back the $$$$ they received for those 441 that were incorrectly certified as covid deaths?
 

was thatguy

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Are you toying with me? You have to know the over estimated death toll is not about the cost of healthcare nor is it about vigilance. Do you think Alameda County is going to give back the $$$$ they received for those 441 that were incorrectly certified as covid deaths?

I have to put him on ignore after that one.
 

brgrcru

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All a big lie
Now who can we sue, for destroying our business and millions of others for a flu?
 

propcheck

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I was being a bit cheeky with Chris, I know it's not industry practice but he put it out there as a possibility so it begged the question.

The real question is why did our government put a monetary incentive on diagnosing someone with Covid-19 as well as listing it as cause of death without requiring a test to confirm it? This incentive makes the "pandemic" appear much worse than it actually is/was and created a fear in the population that was unwarranted. Yes, we should be asking why, we should all be asking why. As well as why are they using the PCR test when it's known to be inaccurate and the inventor of the test claims "it wasn't meant as a diagnostic tool"? False positives can be very useful when you're sowing fear.
I totally agree with you Chris always provides discussion provoking replies so I am sure it was effective like always. 👍🏻

as for testing I am fully in agreement. It is funny how the “scientific” experts shut down the PCR inventors voice of opposition while simultaneously sending out a directive to reduce cycling of specimens to reduce test sensitivity 🤔 right after the election. Nope nothing to see here folks
 

Christopher Lucero

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Are you toying with me? You have to know the over estimated death toll is not about the cost of healthcare nor is it about vigilance. Do you think Alameda County is going to give back the $$$$ they received for those 441 that were incorrectly certified as covid deaths?
I totally agree with you Chris always provides discussion provoking replies so I am sure it was effective like always. 👍🏻

as for testing I am fully in agreement. It is funny how the “scientific” experts shut down the PCR inventors voice of opposition while simultaneously sending out a directive to reduce cycling of specimens to reduce test sensitivity 🤔 right after the election. Nope nothing to see here folks
I am hoping that some day people stop taking things personally...these are just shared ideas about the world...nothing more.

once again, in my original post I shared an anecdote of personal experience. it is one 'story' shared among 'friends' (?). then I speculated on the difference between a private company's effective methods for managing risks and the practice that public health agencies must face.

with as much respect for your opinion as I can express in trying to understand and salve the 'upset' you seem to have at the Alameda county practice, I have to punt...

your return speculations and questions asking me to judge or to further speculate on their actions are not part of what I would deem 'constructive' dialogue, so I will not speculate because it is beyond my responsibility, beyond my ability to affect, and beyond my interest. what happens in legal matters (like 441 cases) is up to attorneys and judges... and justice...such as it is...will be served.

there is gold in there, though, for the future...as we might learn to manage more successfully in the future.
 

Ragged Edge

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I am hoping that some day people stop taking things personally...these are just shared ideas about the world...nothing more.

once again, in my original post I shared an anecdote of personal experience. it is one 'story' shared among 'friends' (?). then I speculated on the difference between a private company's effective methods for managing risks and the practice that public health agencies must face.

with as much respect for your opinion as I can express in trying to understand and salve the 'upset' you seem to have at the Alameda county practice, I have to punt...

your return speculations and questions asking me to judge or to further speculate on their actions are not part of what I would deem 'constructive' dialogue, so I will not speculate because it is beyond my responsibility, beyond my ability to affect, and beyond my interest. what happens in legal matters (like 441 cases) is up to attorneys and judges... and justice...such as it is...will be served.

there is gold in there, though, for the future...as we might learn to manage more successfully in the future.

You're willing to speculate on possible health industry practice but not on the actual topic being discussed, interesting. With that type of posting one might think you're here just to stir things up.

Oh and "upset" is not the word I would use, disgusted is far more accurate.

Cheers Chris, I hope you have a pleasant evening.
 

Christopher Lucero

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You're willing to speculate on possible health industry practice but not on the actual topic being discussed, interesting. With that type of posting one might think you're here just to stir things up.

Oh and "upset" is not the word I would use, disgusted is far more accurate.

Cheers Chris, I hope you have a pleasant evening.
thanks for the well wishes...as it turns out, last night was very nice here. enjoyed some time with my grandson playing a MMORPG.

Don't know you well, but I do appreciate the opportunity to find out more.

I shared some personal experience from my prior employment in the accounting for excess deaths, which is a statistical method called Kaplan Meier analysis, and how company policy exercised vigilance over hazards. I do believe that is relevant to the stated OP topic of accounting for deaths.

FWIW, it is battle against lies, damn lies and statistics...so we help the entire truth unfold as analysts winnow through each and every cause of death
thank you, once again.
 

was thatguy

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thanks for the well wishes...as it turns out, last night was very nice here. enjoyed some time with my grandson playing a MMORPG.

Don't know you well, but I do appreciate the opportunity to find out more.

I shared some personal experience from my prior employment in the accounting for excess deaths, which is a statistical method called Kaplan Meier analysis, and how company policy exercised vigilance over hazards. I do believe that is relevant to the stated OP topic of accounting for deaths.

FWIW, it is battle against lies, damn lies and statistics...so we help the entire truth unfold as analysts winnow through each and every cause of death
thank you, once again.

Question for mr. wizard.

A car transporting a covid patient to the hospital is t boned by an ambulance carrying a code red heart attack patient who also has tested positive for the Rona.
Both of the transported patients are killed in the crash due to trauma...let’s say they are torn in half.

What’s the officially reported cause of death for both transported patients, based on the standard over the past year?
 

t&y

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Question for mr. wizard.

A car transporting a covid patient to the hospital is t boned by an ambulance carrying a code red heart attack patient who also has tested positive for the Rona.
Both of the transported patients are killed in the crash due to trauma...let’s say they are torn in half.

What’s the officially reported cause of death for both transported patients, based on the standard over the past year?
HOld on a minute. I need to use my dumbfuckium analysis technique to figure this one out. 🤔

Ok got it. President Trump said really mean things and likes to grab pussy.
 

TeamGreene

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Question for mr. wizard.

A car transporting a covid patient to the hospital is t boned by an ambulance carrying a code red heart attack patient who also has tested positive for the Rona.
Both of the transported patients are killed in the crash due to trauma...let’s say they are torn in half.

What’s the officially reported cause of death for both transported patients, based on the standard over the past year?
I can tell you it will be covid, no slide rule needed. My SIL works as an RN in a trauma center in WA she told us that a gun shot victim came in and died but tested positive for covid and it was ruled as a covid death. How many times did this similar scenario repeat itself throughout the US in the last year? All to game the system for more $ and the skewing of the numbers for profit caused more and more restrictions on the rest of us. There is a direct line between the infection/death numbers and lock downs of the masses.
 

was thatguy

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I can tell you it will be covid, no slide rule needed. My SIL works as an RN in a trauma center in WA she told us that a gun shot victim came in and died but tested positive for covid and it was ruled as a covid death. How many times did this similar scenario repeat itself throughout the US in the last year? All to game the system for more $ and the skewing of the numbers for profit caused more and more restrictions on the rest of us. There is a direct line between the infection/death numbers and lock downs of the masses.

Exactly, and this is where Mr Wizard and his top tier analyticals fail.
 
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