Custom Boats Dead?

[cc322]

Curious what you all think. is the west coast custom boat market a dying breed? Don't see a lot of new boats being built as of late but tons of Pontoons being sold imo. Just curious what you all think about the current situation on west coast custom boat builders, IMO it seems to be dying........ But I gotta say I LOVE MY 2004 LAVEYCRAFT!

 

[Bobby V]

Curious what you all think. is the west coast custom boat market a dying breed? Don't see a lot of new boats being built as of late but tons of Pontoons being sold imo. Just curious what you all think about the current situation on west coast custom boat builders, IMO it seems to be dying........ But I gotta say I LOVE MY 2004 LAVEYCRAFT!

I hear its at least a 1 year wait at Howard, Nordic and Eliminator.

 

[Bajastu]

There are plenty of custom boat builders turning out the boats. It’s just a long line of people wanting them. Production is slow due to parts and motor availability (Covid manufacturing delays). Have you tried to order an out drive or an outboard? Lead times are off the chain. Laveycraft went out at the wrong time. He too could be churning out the boats along with the other manufacturers.

 

[cc322]

One year, Damn Ive never heard of such a thing. I guess thats a good thing

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

I hear its at least a 1 year wait at Howard, Nordic and Eliminator.

Last I saw it was a 3 year wait at Howard…..

 

[Bpracing1127]

3 year wait doesn’t mean anything when you only pump out ten a year if that.
That’s only 30 boats in that time frame.

to the OP point they prolly build 30 toons a week

 

[GRADS]

3 year wait??? Sounds to me like a lot of people are going to lose their deposits. I mean what could go wrong?

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Curious what you all think. is the west coast custom boat market a dying breed? Don't see a lot of new boats being built as of late but tons of Pontoons being sold imo. Just curious what you all think about the current situation on west coast custom boat builders, IMO it seems to be dying........ But I gotta say I LOVE MY 2004 LAVEYCRAFT!

Thanks for the laugh..I regularly get offered 20k over what our boat cost in 20' to sell it. Manufacturers have a backlog,...especially with cash buyers..

 

[Flatsix66]

Curious what you all think. is the west coast custom boat market a dying breed? Don't see a lot of new boats being built as of late but tons of Pontoons being sold imo. Just curious what you all think about the current situation on west coast custom boat builders, IMO it seems to be dying........ But I gotta say I LOVE MY 2004 LAVEYCRAFT!

Love my 2004 Laveycraft 29 as well. Could totally see ordering a 2750 with twin outboards one day when my ship comes in.

 

[CoolCruzin]

Custom boat are alive .builder are busy.
As for pontoons- not my thing . Boring

 

[steamin rice]

I think most custom builders are selling everything they can build right now. Who knows how long the market will stay like this, but I think that right now the custom builders are doing just fine. Overall the volume of custom boats is a small fraction of the volume of production boats including toons.

 

[240Hallett]

One year, Damn Ive never heard of such a thing. I guess thats a good thing

That depends on if you were the builder or the dude waiting in line.

 

[Gelcoater]

Curious what you all think. is the west coast custom boat market a dying breed? Don't see a lot of new boats being built as of late but tons of Pontoons being sold imo. Just curious what you all think about the current situation on west coast custom boat builders, IMO it seems to be dying........ But I gotta say I LOVE MY 2004 LAVEYCRAFT!

The number of options I have for side work is definitely smaller than it once was.
I know there are a couple few people out there starting something new, or reviving a name.
Is it dead? No.
Do toons and production ski boats sell at higher numbers?
Sure.
They always have.
Tastes and times they are changing.
Some live, some move on, others just wither away.

 

[rivermobster]

Curious what you all think. is the west coast custom boat market a dying breed? Don't see a lot of new boats being built as of late but tons of Pontoons being sold imo. Just curious what you all think about the current situation on west coast custom boat builders, IMO it seems to be dying........ But I gotta say I LOVE MY 2004 LAVEYCRAFT!

Define "custom boat builder".

 

[HCP3]

Lavey (since you named them) is more or less dead, but the rest of the west coast custom boats are thriving. Take a minute and look at the used price of a 2000'ish Daytona or M/F DCB.

 

[twocents]

At the moment, custom high performance boat demand is running at an all-time high. How long that will last is anybody's guess. There are shortages of just about everything slowing down production thanks to Covid and a few other factors including a lack of skilled craftsmen. Still, custom high performance boat manufacturers haven't learned much about how to streamline their production process. Boats are still being made basically the same way that they were back in the 60s & 70s. Plant expansion has essentially been stagnant for this same period too. The majority of builders are still turning-out low to mid-level double digits annually. Compare that with the wakesport industry (Nautique, Malibu, Mastercraft, Supreme, Tige, etc.). Those manufacturers are working from modern plants in excess of several hundred thousand square feet with well over 150 employees. Eliminator was headed in that direction in 2006 with their impressive new Perris facility only to have the economy take its sharpest dip since the Great Depression. Hope I live long enough to see at least a couple of the performance guys be able to fill custom orders, start to finish. in four to six weeks. Dare to dream.

 

[Riley1]

I don’t know if I’d still call it “Custom”.
In talking with a friend, he revealed a lot of “No’s” that he was told by one of the 3 listed above with regards to stereos and interior layouts and gel schemes.

 

[rivermobster]

I don’t know if I’d still call it “Custom”.
In talking with a friend, he revealed a lot of “No’s” that he was told by one of the 3 listed above with regards to stereos and interior layouts and gel schemes.

That's why I asked what the OP defines as custom...

Anything other than a Bayliner?

Something that has the word Custom in the name? Aka: DCB

A Shiadia hull rigged by somebody else?

Or just anything other than a toon?

Inquiring minds wanna know!

 

[Riley1]

That's why I asked what the OP defines as custom...

Anything other than a Bayliner?

Something that has the word Custom in the name? Aka: DCB

A Shiadia hull rigged by somebody else?

Or just anything other than a toon?

Inquiring minds wanna know!

True. Custom needs to be defined. Seems like with these backlogs, builders can choose how custom they want to get.

 

[rrrr]

True. Custom needs to be defined. Seems like with these backlogs, builders can choose how custom they want to get.

Indeed.

Those deviations from the builder's original concept of the hull, power, and rigging create manufacturing delays. If someone wants a couple of bespoke Teague engines in their new ride, how long do they take to produce? How does that affect Teague's production, making them late on other jobs?

The builders have limited factory floor and yard space, and if they have six boats on hold for various changes, that backlog kills the annual production goals by a large amount and destroys profits. With the current demand for their products, I can understand why the builders might limit the "custom" wishes of the client.

 

[Backlash]

Those with money to burn on high dollar custom boats will always be able to find a builder of choice, who will build them exactly what they want. But the days of having numerous custom boat shops, interior shops and trailer manufacturers on every other corner are long gone. I doubt we will ever see a repeat of the 80's and 90's here in SoCal....which is unfortunate. Those were epic times though. Eliminator was at the top of their game, Howard had a couple of beautiful boat models in production, Schiada was growing in numbers and size.... Hallett, Cole, DCB, LaveyCraft, Essex, Ultra, Carrera, Nordic, Commander....all of those shops were hustling!! The smell of fiberglass resin, trailers stacked up and being delivered, boats and trailers parked up and down the side streets of almost every shop.... You'd see shop trucks up and down the freeways with mysterious black boxes with Mercury's latest offerings in the bed.... It was a boat lovers dream!

 

[River Lynchmob]

There are plenty of custom boat builders turning out the boats. It’s just a long line of people wanting them. Production is slow due to parts and motor availability (Covid manufacturing delays). Have you tried to order an out drive or an outboard? Lead times are off the chain. Laveycraft went out at the wrong time. He too could be churning out the boats along with the other manufacturers.

Brother in law just ordered two 450s...15 months.

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

I don't think the custom performance industry is dead. Seems like it is as busy if not busier than it's ever been.

I think pontoons and wake boats are selling quickly because they are cookie cutters and you're not comparing apples to apples.

Examples being your workforces are double digits to triple digits. Shop sizes are smaller as opposed to huge. Shop layout is big and can significantly improve build production time. The thing is most space in a custom shop seem to be used for multiple stages so it's hard establish an assembly line so to speak.

I think the big thing is with custom you're getting a cool experience and can go look at your boat whenever you want.

Only my thoughts.

 

[LowRiver2]

The number of options I have for side work is definitely smaller than it once was.
I know there are a couple few people out there starting something new, or reviving a name.
Is it dead? No.
Do toons and production ski boats sell at higher numbers?
Sure.
They always have.
Tastes and times they are changing.
Some live, some move on, others just wither away.

Pretty sure you have the closest view to what is going on in that industry.

 

[petie6464]

Interesting and mostly incorrect. A three year wait From Howard is false.

The market is contacting like many others. This niche market is exactly that, now demand is high as supply is low brought on by the obvious factors. The supply will increase and the demand will decrease, from new boats being made and the other being people's interest diminishing, It's basic economics.

As a whole the custom boat market is shrinking, many of the would be custom boat buyers are buying roll bar boats and pontoons, they are certainly spending in the price range, however changing social trends and habits make these a boats a better fit. Younger buyers do not have the desire to go fast as their generation is more of just being a poser and being the guy with the bad as hot rod just doesn't register on their Fitbit.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

3 year wait doesn’t mean anything when you only pump out ten a year if that.
That’s only 30 boats in that time frame.

to the OP point they prolly build 30 toons a week

This.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Interesting and mostly incorrect. A three year wait From Howard is false.

The market is contacting like many others. This niche market is exactly that, now demand is high as supply is low brought on by the obvious factors. The supply will increase and the demand will decrease, from new boats being made and the other being people's interest diminishing, It's basic economics.

As a whole the custom boat market is shrinking, many of the would be custom boat buyers are buying roll bar boats and pontoons, they are certainly spending in the price range, however changing social trends and habits make these a boats a better fit. Younger buyers do have the desire to go fast as their generation is more of just being a poser and being the guy with the bad as hot rod just doesn't register on their Fit-Bit.

The custom market "shrinking" in quantity of output because of the wait times and the high costs. You can't just order one and have it in 6-8 weeks or buy one that is in stock. Instead you order a pontoon, or grab one that is sitting around on the floor somewhere.

All the custom builders have moved upmarket - bigger boats with more margins and fewer of them per year. As businesses they are likely doing just fine. To be honest the "custom" boats are still pretty archaic compared to an assembly line boat from a tech perspective.

 

[Gelcoater]

The custom market shrinking because of the wait times and the high costs. You can't just order one and have it in 6-8 weeks or buy one that is in stock. Instead you order a pontoon, or grab one that is sitting around on the floor somewhere.

All the custom builders have moved upmarket - bigger boats with more margins and fewer of them per year. To be honest the custom boats are still archaic compared to an assembly line boat from a tech perspective.

I disagree.
The number of builders shrank during the recession.
And reset some mfgs business practices.
Building boats for the showroom would be great, but they don’t have time to build them and don’t want to risk having them not sell at seasons end.


I remember before Davis bought Hallett Nick and Jerry tried for close to 4 years to build a 285 deckboat for the showroom.
They’d have me come do one and they laminate it, by the time it hit the rigging line someone had bought it.

 

[Done-it-again]

No one really knows the margin that is made on the custom side besides the builders. So what kind of money is to be made from only building 10-15 boats a year?
500k-750k (50k profit per boat)? 25% margin on 200k

I would think if I had a popular mold and I'm quoting people 18-20 months out. I would look into building another mold and get things moving faster. Quicker you get things moving the faster the payments roll in. I wouldn't be putting a deposit down for a job that is going to take 18-24 months to do. I'll start paying when the work starts.

 

[Looking Glass]

Brother in law just ordered two 450s...15 months.

Creating a "DEMAND" is the Key. There are people who will jump the hoops if they get The Item in Demand. I recall some years back when it was an Eternity to get a New Harley. People were paying "Whore House" Prices for nothing more than a Production Motorcycle. I believe that hurt the Company then and there are some who did not forget.

 

[RaceTec]

Lavey (since you named them) is more or less dead, but the rest of the west coast custom boats are thriving. Take a minute and look at the used price of a 2000'ish Daytona or M/F DCB.

I really hope that Lavey isn't gone, I would love a 2750... @lavey jr

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I disagree.
The number of builders shrank during the recession.
And reset some mfgs business practices.
Building boats for the showroom would be great, but they don’t have time to build them and don’t want to risk having them not sell at seasons end.


I remember before Davis bought Hallett Nick and Jerry tried for close to 4 years to build a 285 deckboat for the showroom.
They’d have me come do one and they laminate it, by the time it hit the rigging line someone had bought it.

I edited my post a bit because i did not articulate my thought clearly. I don't think the custom market is shrinking, the number of custom boats produced is shrinking for the reasons I mentioned (fewer, more expensive boats). And the assembly line builders have more market share than they did before.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

No one really knows the margin that is made on the custom side besides the builders. So what kind of money is to be made from only building 10-15 boats a year?
500k-750k (50k profit per boat)? 25% margin on 200k

I would think if I had a popular mold and I'm quoting people 18-20 months out. I would look into building another mold and get things moving faster. Quicker you get things moving the faster the payments roll in. I wouldn't be putting a deposit down for a job that is going to take 18-24 months to do. I'll start paying when the work starts.

I don't know what the margins are, but I'm not crying for them, they are doing fine. The problem with having more molds, is you need more people, and I think the labor is the bottleneck?

 

[hallett21]

No one really knows the margin that is made on the custom side besides the builders. So what kind of money is to be made from only building 10-15 boats a year?
500k-750k (50k profit per boat)? 25% margin on 200k

I would think if I had a popular mold and I'm quoting people 18-20 months out. I would look into building another mold and get things moving faster. Quicker you get things moving the faster the payments roll in. I wouldn't be putting a deposit down for a job that is going to take 18-24 months to do. I'll start paying when the work starts.

You’d bottle neck at the rigging line is my guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

You’d bottle neck at the rigging line is my guess.


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Rigging seems easy to teach. I can't imagine there are many people that know how to shoot a boat anymore. Gelcoater seems to be an endangered species.

 

[Done-it-again]

I don't know what the margins are, but I'm not crying for them, they are doing fine. The problem with having more molds, is you need more people, and I think the labor is the bottleneck?

You’d bottle neck at the rigging line is my guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not more models just an additional mold that is selling. Why cant the gel coater tape off one mold and spray, while that curers start work on another of the same model.
Building two boats side by side of the same model doesn't take 2x as long. Yes different options but that's more in parts not the layout of the boat.

I would rather get people putting money down on boats when I started spraying, more molds more money. How many people look elsewhere when they say 18-24 months, how much potential money are you missing out on? Shit what happens when said customer is going to wait the 2yrs, then something happens and can afford it. Then you lost that sale, shit if you could have built them faster and was paid then that isn't your problem,

People don't want to wait for anything and want it now or have a reasonable build time, especially spending 200k.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Not more models just an additional mold that is selling. Why cant the gel coater tape off one mold and spray, while that curers start work on another of the same model.
Building two boats side by side of the same model doesn't take 2x as long. Yes different options but that's more in parts not the layout of the boat.

I would rather get people putting money down on boats when I started spraying, more molds more money. How many people look elsewhere when they say 18-24 months, how much potential money are you missing out on? Shit what happens when said customer is going to wait the 2yrs, then something happens and can afford it. Then you lost that sale, shit if you could have built them faster and was paid then that isn't your problem,

People don't want to wait for anything and want it now or have a reasonable build time, especially spending 200k.

I'm not a boat builder, but I can't imagine anyone has people sitting around doing nothing right now, and that is probably what they are doing already, right? Multiple boat builds are happening in parallel, not in series. So to make more happen in parallel, you would either need to utilize workers more, or add staff.

This is assuming management is not high on resin fumes or parmesan cheese of course.

 

[hallett21]

I'm not a boat builder, but I can't imagine anyone has people sitting around doing nothing right now, and that is probably what they are doing already, right? Multiple boat builds are happening in parallel, not in series. So to make more happen in parallel, you would either need to utilize workers more, or add staff.

This is assuming management is not high on resin fumes or parmesan cheese of course.

Also you’d probably need to expand the building accommodate inventory and more hulls


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Done-it-again]

I'm not a boat builder, but I can't imagine anyone has people sitting around doing nothing right now, and that is probably what they are doing already, right? Multiple boat builds are happening in parallel, not in series. So to make more happen in parallel, you would either need to utilize workers more, or add staff.

This is assuming management is not high on resin fumes or parmesan cheese of course.

I don't know where the bottle neck is either. So i took it from the putting the boat in the mold. If X boat company cures the boat in the mold for 2-3 weeks and the mold is already booked again in line you cant start another one in about 4 weeks. What does that gel coater or laminator do? do they rig ? I don't know.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I don't know where the bottle neck is either. So i took it from the putting the boat in the mold. If X boat company cures the boat in the mold for 2-3 weeks and the mold is already booked again in line you cant start another one in about 4 weeks. What does that gel coater or laminator do? do they rig ? I don't know.

Unknown to me as well. That is why I think they are already doing as you said, - multiple models in parallel to keep all the staff busy.

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

Unknown to me as well. That is why I think they are already doing as you said, - multiple models in parallel to keep all the staff busy.

Series parallel not to split hairs

 

[Gelcoater]

Why cant the gel coater tape off one mold and spray, while that curers start work on another of the same model.

Who do you think I am?
Superman or something?

 

[RiverDave]

The custom market "shrinking" in quantity of output because of the wait times and the high costs. You can't just order one and have it in 6-8 weeks or buy one that is in stock. Instead you order a pontoon, or grab one that is sitting around on the floor somewhere.

All the custom builders have moved upmarket - bigger boats with more margins and fewer of them per year. As businesses they are likely doing just fine. To be honest the "custom" boats are still pretty archaic compared to an assembly line boat from a tech perspective.

I rented a regal at bear lake.. big deep vee, tech screens etc..

That was the worst riding piece of shit boat.. i mean it was shockingly bad. The “tech” on that boat made me chuckle.. trim gauge on the screen that had some random numbers representing trim.. then a trim thing flat above the steering wheel that had an entirely different set of numbers.. fucking bizarre deal.

 

[Done-it-again]

Unknown to me as well. That is why I think they are already doing as you said, - multiple models in parallel to keep all the staff busy.

How many models are selling? lets take Howard, just from what's posted it seems the 288 deck and the 255 vtx for the most part, 2 molds. So I would assume its more of the same model in rigging and not different models. Again easier to rig the same model side by side vs one 255 and a 288 or a billet sxs.

 

[Done-it-again]

Who do you think I am?
Superman or something?

Lol no. I know you need to keep a certain amount of hush hush of the inter workings of the boat builders you work for.

So lets say you worked for 1 builder exclusively, can you work 40-50hrs a week and stay busy just gel coating? or would you have down time cause that same mold is needed again and now you need to wait till it cures.

 

[Flatsix66]

Saw this on Facebook a few days ago. Nordic

 

[Gelcoater]

Lol no. I know you need to keep a certain amount of hush hush of the inter workings of the boat builders you work for.

So lets say you worked for 1 builder exclusively, can you work 40-50hrs a week and stay busy just gel coating? or would you have down time cause that same mold is needed again and now you need to wait till it cures.

A lot of variables there.
There was a time Eliminater had 4 full time in the mold gelcoaters. And enough models selling we all stayed busy. But it was more seasonal then.
Spring and summer was shoot as many as you can and stash some nuts for winter.

The other variable here is size and complexity.
Something like this members Papp boat is something a skilled guy could tape and shoot in one 9ish hour day.

Vs some of today’s much larger and more complex stuff.

I had close to 4 days in taping this.
And another 2 shooting it.

I had a day and a half worth of tape on Finnegan’s 21, and shot it all in one day.


Edit... and yes there was still down time occasionally back in the days before the recession. But that was ok, while they laminated I could go over to xyz boats and shoot one for them. Then go back and start on the one I was waiting for.

 

[USClb41]

Yeah it's crazy, bought my '09 Tremor a few years ago from a buddy, it was pristine and still is. Saw an '05 for sale today for 21K over what I paid for mine.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

I really hope that Lavey isn't gone, I would love a 2750... @lavey jr

there is no way that marque is gone. anywhere you look, there are fans who want to be future owners, and current owners who are outsized in their satisfaction.
look anywhere...facebook, here. scream and fly...the story is the same.

in my conversations with big Chris he was disappointed because there are few young people who are interested in the craft anymore...leading to fewer hands to work on filling orders under increasing demand. only so many hours in a day, only so many jobs a builder can take on reasonably and still have a good, decent, life, and enjoy the boating experience. I feel for him...he is a good guy, he deserves good treatment, and the marque deserves to be honored for it's longevity in quality and in craft.

On one hand, we all seem to have pride in the 'custom' boats (maybe a better description is 'low volume' or bespoke, like any other luxury item) we own, on the other, the mass market cares less for those attributes and just wants some fun floating and skiing and boarding.

 

[Done-it-again]

A lot of variables there.
There was a time Eliminater had 4 full time in the mold gelcoaters. And enough models selling we all stayed busy. But it was more seasonal then.
Spring and summer was shoot as many as you can and stash some nuts for winter.

The other variable here is size and complexity.
Something like this members Papp boat is something a skilled guy could tape and shoot in one 9ish hour day.
View attachment 1018226

Vs some of today’s much larger and more complex stuff.
View attachment 1018227
I had close to 4 days in taping this.
And another 2 shooting it.

I had a day and a half worth of tape on Finnegan’s 21, and shot it all in one day.


Edit... and yes there was still down time occasionally back in the days before the recession. But that was ok, while they laminated I could go over to xyz boats and shoot one for them. Then go back and start on the one I was waiting for.

So lets say 1 boat a week then on average. You will only be able to knock out 2 boats a month if have only 2 popular models. That brings me back having a 2nd mold for your best seller(s) so they can be started in a more timely fashion.