Custom steering brackets on the Brummett

[Howardflat]

Since I had to do the tanks on the boat I figured I'd do some other things too. First off I wouldn't have been able to do any of this without Racey's help. Since the stock tanks were in the floor I abandoned those in place and had some gunnel tanks built. Conquest did some cosmetic fiberglass work for me as well as remove the old glassed in seat bases and installed the bulkheads for the new tanks. Pulled the motor and rebuilt the gimble. Now we're at the stage of working on the hydraulic steering. You can see the limitations i had with installing the steering rams. But Racey is knocking it out of the park. I had no idea how much time goes into machining these parts. But I think its going to work and look bitchen. Thanks again Racey. There is a bunch of little stuff that still needs to be done but its moving nicely. Note that these are not the finished ram length. Just for mock up.

 

[RiverDave]

@Racey is that a retrofit knee mill? Or manual?

I have always wanted a retrofit knee mill.. (dunno why? Just always have!)

 

[Racey]

@Racey is that a retrofit knee mill? Or manual?

I have always wanted a retrofit knee mill.. (dunno why? Just always have!)

That one is a manual, Lagun with the long table and ram.

 

[RiverDave]

That one is a manual, Lagun with the long table and ram.

Well if you don't got the time to cut Joe's parts.. Send me some prints, and I'll help out on the project.

I'm kinda getting back into chips.. I wouldn't mind helping out ole Joel.

RD

 

[Howardflat]

Thanks Dave i appreciate that. We should be wrapping up with most of the machining here real soon. Then its down to putting it back together. I cant wait till this boat is running which i hope is in a month or two. I just dont get to spend as much time as I want working on it. I am just very fortunate to have Shane with all the knowledge and ability to help me. Id be screwed if i didn't.

 

[Kfabe]

It boggles the mind that when someone posts some legitimate innovative boating content it drops like a rock in the lounge. This is the kind of stuff that I originally signed up to RDP to read/learn about. @Racey is a boating genius. If any of you have taken time to look at his boating posts. The sliding seats in the Schiada should have been enough to draw you in. Running the rams for hydraulic steering off of the cav plate
Brackets is an awesome idea. The first time I personally have ever seen it done. Here’s to innovation and more posts like this!

 

[Racey]

Almost done. Once they are anodized nobody will ever know they were an afterthought

 

[Halvecto]

Great work. @Racey is a wizard on the custom dealios. Curious; the steering angle geometry looks limited. Does the dual rams, pushing and pulling, allow the angle be so straight? My single ram mount is much further from the drive. Will this limit the turning radius noticeably?

BTW, doesn't he have the brother boat outboard setup to this hull?

 

[Racey]

Great work. @Racey is a wizard on the custom dealios. Curious; the steering angle geometry looks limited. Does the dual rams, pushing and pulling, allow the angle be so straight? My single ram mount is much further from the drive. Will this limit the turning radius noticeably?

BTW, doesn't he have the brother boat outboard setup to this hull?

I will modify rams to custom length, this is just a stock length ram used to mock up geometry. Based on the almost non-existent transom real estate this was the best case scenario for a ram placement, it's very close to where an ITS gimble ram would mount, but not exactly the same. When it's done it will have full steering travel like any other setup.

 

[Racey]

In between some Del Taco i re-machined the cylinders after coming up with all the places i could remove length to make the shortest ram possible for the given stroke need. Now it's time to shorten the shaft and related pieces.

Originally i thought i was going to have to catch and extend the existing thread, not the simplest thing to do on a tool cut thread as the thread and the lathe have to end up perfectly timed to each other. At the last minute i found another 1/2" i could remove so i was able to just barely cut completely new threads. Before that I ran some tests to see how consistent i could get my setup to extend threads, ended up getting it to work just about perfectly after bringing out all the dial indicators I did not want to scrap one of these rams in the process, so i needed to be sure i could do it every time consistently. The thread of that test piece was extended about 4 times being randomly rotated in the chuck between each test. The extension borders are indistinguishable.

This little beauty right here is awesome for setting tool height when it's super critical, and these threading inserts on stainless are one of those cases. You do not want to break an insert half way through running a thread. Resolution is 0.0001" you can be damn confident how far plus or minus you are from zero with this setup.

After using indicators like this i don't think i'll be threading any other way from now on... Really removes all chances for error.

When it's all done we'll end up with a 7" stroke ram that is over 2" shorter in it's closed position than standard 7" ram is.

 

[rrrr]

Pretty incredible work, especially since one hand was running the lathe while the other one held a burrito.

 

[ka0tyk]

Pretty incredible work, especially since one hand was running the lathe while the other one held a burrito.

the OPs attention to details giving us a point of reference for size with the del inferno and del scorcho packets. Amazing.

 

[Howardflat]

Well, I havent put much time in but Racey has. Racey cut down the rams to a true 7 inch stroke and took a total if 2" out of the collapsed length of the ram. Only thing left is to machine the end cap. Here it is mocked up.

 

[RiverDave]

How are you determining the proper height to set the incidator? Gauge blocks or something?

I’m not sure the tool height needs to be quite that Precission??
We have a hard tool that the bottom of it Is the center point height of the lathe.. so we just put that on the crossslide and then adjust up ubtil
The tool “rubs” on the bottom of it and you know your height is good.

 

[Racey]

How are you determining the proper height to set the incidator? Gauge blocks or something?

I’m not sure the tool height needs to be quite that Precission??
We have a hard tool that the bottom of it Is the center point height of the lathe.. so we just put that on the crossslide and then adjust up ubtil
The tool “rubs” on the bottom of it and you know your height is good.

Chuck a precision pin, indicate, compensate for radius. Then I took that back to the surface plate and calculated the actual height with gauge blocks so in the future it's quicker to set.

These edge cutting inserts are very sensitive in my personal experience. I broke quite a few for not good reason until precision setting tool height.

 

[RiverDave]

Chuck a precision pin, indicate, compensate for radius. Then I took that back to the surface plate and calculated the actual height with gauge blocks so in the future it's quicker to set.

These edge cutting inserts are very sensitive in my personal experience. I broke quite a few for not good reason until precision setting tool height.

Weird.. I always thought they were pretty forgiving, so long as you didn’t go high.

 

[Dkahnjob]

I see my old Hallett 270 in the picture. It looks like Tom & you are taking good care of it.
Dave K.

 

[Jay Dub]

love this thread, thank you for sharing. great looking work.

 

[River Lynchmob]

You must have stayed at a Holliday Inn Express last night Shane.

 

[Racey]

I see my old Hallett 270 in the picture. It looks like Tom & you are taking good care of it.
Dave K.

As nice as you left it to him, Both Gimbals all rebuilt, all new gauges, and he had a new snap in carpet made for the cockpit.

 

[Riley1]

As nice as you left it to him, Both Gimbals all rebuilt, all new gauges, and he had a new snap in carpet made for the cockpit.

Could've sworn I saw that boat traveling up the 15 a week or so ago? or it was another twin Hallett with the same Yellow.

 

[Racey]

If you look at that blue tape on the board, that hole out there is where a stock 7" ram would have had to be mounted, where the ram is resting is where it will be mounted now. This is why so much effort was made to shorten them. We still get a full 7" of stroke, and full lock to lock on the drive (minus about 1/4" so that the ram bottoms before the drive does, the rams will break the gimbal if they can over travel)

 

[BUSTI]

Amazing work Racey.

 

[RichieRich]

are you going full hydro to the helm or keeping the cable?

 

[Racey]

Cutting a (near) perfect radius manually, done by manual interpolation.

Sand the final few thousandths smooth:

Machining the flats with a tighter radius saves another 3/16"-1/4" in length:

 

[Racey]

are you going full hydro to the helm or keeping the cable?

Full Hydro. Keeping the cable defeats much of the purpose.

 

[Howardflat]

Tell you what, this guy knocks it out of the park every time. Finished up the end cap brackets for this one of a kind steering. Everything is perfect. Next it anodizing then powder coat and this wraps up the transom. Thanks bud.

 

[Kfabe]

Tell you what, this guy knocks it out of the park every time. Finished up the end cap brackets for this one of a kind steering. Everything is perfect. Next it anodizing then powder coat and this wraps up the transom. Thanks bud. View attachment 896549 View attachment 896549

 

[Racey]

A little rotary table work

 

[lenmann]

Beautiful work right there, and thanks to @Racey for taking the time to show us how its done.

 

[jmeads]

A little rotary table work

Nice work Shane. Thanks for sharing

 

[rivergames]

Holy Crap. Nailed It!

 

[Duramax]

Amazing!!

 

[Boat Anchor]

A little rotary table work

Who makes/sells the mill vise stop in the first photo on the left in post #29???

 

[Howardflat]

Well its been slow going but finally making some progress. Im just limited on time. The transom plates and hardware has been re anodized and back on the boat. The end cap is getting painted and the rams are going to be final assembled. Getting the steering perfect was a mind bender but racey makes it seem pretty easy. Sometimes he talks and I just nod my head. Its very important to get the rams to bottom out and the other one top out at the same time when its at full turn in both directions. Adding the limitations of attaching the brackets to the transom which made for a highly customized ram length. Fuel tanks will be going in next week. Then we move to the dash assembly and plumbing of the hydraulic lines. Big thanks to IMCO NV. They are right here in Boulder City and I'm good friends with everyone over there. Doesn't seem like much progress from the last pics but it finally feels like I'm moving forwards and not backwards.

 

[Racey]

Came out really tidy, Had to make the two rams slightly different in stroke and length to keep the end cap on the drive symmetrical (very easy to visually notice).

Also both rams bottom at the exact same moment at steering lock, pretty rare to happen on most installations, they are usually close when going off the templates, but rarely exact.

This also has full steering travel, just as much as if you were using the stock merc internal rack. We gave up no travel to keep it all tucked in tight like this.

 

[wash11]

So bitchin!

 

[Water Romper]

WOW, that looks really nice. That shop is a LONG way from high school auto shop. Tooling and fab is an art-form, no room for error. I bet the boat looks great in the water as well!!

 

[lenmann]

Really nice work, the engineering and attention to detail are as usual, top shelf.

How are the ear plates attached to the drive?

 

[pavski2]

Grew up watching a buddies Dad do this kind of work, really wish I would have learned how to do it. Beautiful workmanship!

 

[Racey]

Really nice work, the engineering and attention to detail are as usual, top shelf.

How are the ear plates attached to the drive?

Its an imco end cap with custom ear plates, they are built the same as IMCO's normal ear plates just a little longer.

 

[RiverDave]

Came out really tidy, Had to make the two rams slightly different in stroke and length to keep the end cap on the drive symmetrical (very easy to visually notice).

Also both rams bottom at the exact same moment at steering lock, pretty rare to happen on most installations, they are usually close when going off the templates, but rarely exact.

This also has full steering travel, just as much as if you were using the stock merc internal rack. We gave up no travel to keep it all tucked in tight like this.

Why were the two rams different?

 

[Racey]

Why were the two rams different?

Maybe the gimbal isn't exactly in the center of the transom, maybe the pillow blocks weren't exactly the same distance from either side of the gimbal, maybe the transom isn't perfectly flat, maybe the casting of the gimbal that creates the steering lock isn't exactly symmetrical... i dunno, i didn't bother investigating why, but there is about 80 thou difference if i remember correctly it's not much, but it's there, so one ram would be 40 thou long of neutral, and the other 40 thou short, or something like that.

 

[lenmann]

So, if I understand this correctly, virtually every twin cylinder steering set up on the planet suffers the same set of potential inaccuracies. It just happened that the guy working on this set-up measured said inaccuracies and was in a position to do something about it because he was modifying the cylinder lengths. This may be the worlds most accurate twin cylinder steering set-up. That's cool. That it's on a Brummett seems appropriate.

 

[Racey]

So, if I understand this correctly, virtually every twin cylinder steering set up on the planet suffers the same set of potential inaccuracies. It just happened that the guy working on this set-up measured said inaccuracies and was in a position to do something about it because he was modifying the cylinder lengths. This may be the worlds most accurate twin cylinder steering set-up. That's cool. That it's on a Brummett seems appropriate.

Bingo

 

[River Lynchmob]

Maybe the gimbal isn't exactly in the center of the transom, maybe the pillow blocks weren't exactly the same distance from either side of the gimbal, maybe the transom isn't perfectly flat, maybe the casting of the gimbal that creates the steering lock isn't exactly symmetrical... i dunno, i didn't bother investigating why, but there is about 80 thou difference if i remember correctly it's not much, but it's there, so one ram would be 40 thou long of neutral, and the other 40 thou short, or something like that.

If that gimbal isn't center, then Carson didn't lay it out and install it.

 

[Halvecto]

Maybe the gimbal isn't exactly in the center of the transom, maybe the pillow blocks weren't exactly the same distance from either side of the gimbal, maybe the transom isn't perfectly flat, maybe the casting of the gimbal that creates the steering lock isn't exactly symmetrical... i dunno, i didn't bother investigating why, but there is about 80 thou difference if i remember correctly it's not much, but it's there, so one ram would be 40 thou long of neutral, and the other 40 thou short, or something like that.

Exactly.

 

[Sherpa]

Racey it looks like you've got the thread cutting down to a science........... which brings me to think of this:

Do you think you could do a video and then post it up as to how you're doing you're threading, what tools

you're using, the "why I do this" and the whole theory of all of it....

so far my threading has sucked. I also blame partly the thread cutting tool I'm using too. but it's me.

ya think you're next threading project you might be able to make a narrated video?????

--Sherpa

 

[Racey]

Racey it looks like you've got the thread cutting down to a science........... which brings me to think of this:

Do you think you could do a video and then post it up as to how you're doing you're threading, what tools

you're using, the "why I do this" and the whole theory of all of it....

so far my threading has sucked. I also blame partly the thread cutting tool I'm using too. but it's me.

ya think you're next threading project you might be able to make a narrated video?????

--Sherpa

I'm not too versed in making videos, but if you look up a YouTube channel called Abom79 im sure he has some threading videos. He's a very talented machinist that puts up great videos on all kinds of subjects related to machining, and does a much better job than i could

 

[Taboma]

As I read this thread and view with wonder, the work to create this steering work of marvel and precision, I keep seeing $$$$$$$$$$$$ super imposed over my thoughts.