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Daytona center pod question- help needed

pkrrvr619

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So the Daytona I bought has a hop and I started looking at what may be causing this issue. (I know all single step Daytona’s hop but this seemed a bit much).

I took a straight edge to the sponsons and they were straight and looked good.

When i did the same to the center pod i noticed that it has a rocker in it. Is that normal or should those be straight too?

See photo. You can see it daylights towards the front half inch or so from the level.

wonder if this may be the culprit.
 

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Flying_Lavey

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So the Daytona I bought has a hop and I started looking at what may be causing this issue. (I know all single step Daytona’s hop but this seemed a bit much).

I took a straight edge to the sponsons and they were straight and looked good.

When i did the same to the center pod i noticed that it has a rocker in it. Is that normal or should those be straight too?

See photo. You can see it daylights towards the front half inch or so from the level.

wonder if this may be the culprit.
I'd imagine you shouldn't be riding on that part of the pod at speed. The pod is higher than the sponsons so it will get out of the water sooner than the sponsons do.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
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pkrrvr619

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I'd imagine you shouldn't be riding on that part of the pod at speed. The pod is higher than the sponsons so it will get out of the water sooner than the sponsons do.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
Good point. Here’s another photo of the pod from the back half that shows the gap from another angle
 

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ONE-A-DAY

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Questions....What daytona?

What engine?

What top speed?
 

pkrrvr619

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Questions....What daytona?

What engine?

What top speed?
25 daytona. 700 ish horsepower.
Top speed unknown yet as I didn’t want to push it much due to the hop. I gotta imagine with that hp mid 80s?


The previous owner purchased this with a standard bravo xr drive and tried to solve the issue by adding a –2 IMCO shorty, a labbed 29p prop, as well as some eddie marine trim tabs.

I was told if you drop the tabs that it solves the porpoising issue however when taking the Tres Martin class Tres commented that using the tabs is a bandaid and that I should look into solving the problem correctly. The tabs are not parallel to the sponsons either, they are mounted flat to the water line.

I then started taking measurements and realized the transom assembly top sits about 2.25” below the rub rail which is perhaps why the previous owner added the –2 lower to get the x dimension up (photo attached).

Measuring the x dimension with the prop level to the running service, the prop sits about 4.” below the outer chine of the sponson.
 

parker guy

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Walt is the man when it comes to Daytona’s....my boat has the 70 mph hop and then you throttle up and it goes away....
 
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Gelcoater

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25 daytona. 700 ish horsepower.
Top speed unknown yet as I didn’t want to push it much due to the hop. I gotta imagine with that hp mid 80s?
There were 2 different bottoms.
Have a profile pic on the trailer?
 
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n2otoofast4u

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They all hop IMO.

Speed up
Slow down
Give it a bit of a turn
Drive only on ruffled water
Move weight around
Spend cubic $ on setup, only for it to still hop.

Typically it’s in the 70 range, it’s really pronounced on smooth/sticky water. I have gotten my current 25 to damn near zero unless I’m SUPER smooth water, and even then it’s very little. It took a big $ set of props to get it there. My guess is that on a single IO, you’re never going to get rid of it.
 

pkrrvr619

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Here’s some more photos of the transom.

When I tested it on havasu it was glass so that’s going to magnify the hop I know.

Just looking for ways to minimize it so it can pack air and perhaps not have to use tabs as that seems to be a no no at speeds.

Spoke with some prop guys they said maybe some transom lift would help so a 5 blade.

Also it was suggested that adding all the shit on the back plus the three batteries may have thrown cg off.

sadly I found this thread about the same boat after I bought it which was strange as I scoured this site for days reading up on Daytona’s


D599F81F-E180-4A91-9668-FA539EFB2103.jpeg
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ED249C3B-F753-41AE-A4F3-9B2F93C4F009.jpeg
 
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pkrrvr619

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More photos
D0DFCCAE-E8F6-4D88-A738-D77AC608BAAD.jpeg
06271F38-4432-4E09-A540-E4F413CA96CA.jpeg
48366AC5-364D-4E17-8A2B-F8D71E72B06A.jpeg
 
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X Hoser

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I had a 25 single step, 496 Ho and standard Bravo 1. I had fixed tunnel tabs that were about 12” long. The only time I had any hop at all was on glassy water and it was minimal at that. Problem was the 496 was not enough power for that hull. The boat never packed air and felt “free”. I can’t say I’ve seen tabs mounted like that before on a 25 Daytona?
 

ONE-A-DAY

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Hop at 70 ish is normal, it should go away by 80 and then accelerate smoothly from there.

Messing with the tabs at speed can kill you in a heartbeat. I’m sure Tres told you that, they are for getting on plane only.

Here is one of the 25’s I have had. I added a minus two and gained 6 mph, topped out around 85 in the winter time. No tabs, no idea on HP, was told around 600. You will see how much higher the x is on mine than yours so I would say you are still too low. And a 5 blade won’t help, 25’s prefer Bravo’s.

Tres is a brilliant marine design engineer, he drove it during the class I assume, what did he say?

How much throttle do you have left while it’s hopping? Some have issues because they don’t have enough power to make it past the hop.

Was you boat rigged by eliminator or someone else? ELI or ELB HIN number?

I would also call Kenny at the shop and talk to him. He will tell you that just about every Daytona will benefit from a -2.


FF08B17D-EA7E-43F7-B112-A716E4CAAECF.png
 
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pkrrvr619

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Hop at 70 ish is normal, it should go away by 80 and then accelerate smoothly from there.

Messing with the tabs at speed can kill you in a heartbeat. I’m sure Tres told you that, they are for getting on plane only.

Here is one of the 25’s I have had. I added a minus two and gained 6 mph, topped out around 85 in the winter time. No tabs, no idea on HP, was told around 600.

Tres is a brilliant marine design engineer, he drove it during the class I assume, what did he say?

How much throttle do you have left while it’s hopping? Some have issues because they don’t have enough power to make it past the hop.

Was you boat rigged by eliminator or someone else? ELI or ELB HIN number?

I would also call Kenny at the shop and talk to him. He will tell you that just about every Daytona will benefit from a -2.


View attachment 968810
yes tres said the same about the tabs which is why I would like to find a solution not using them.

he drove it and played with trim and tabs and it still had the hop from 65-80. I believe there is some more in the sticks to get some additional speed but the hop felt like boat wouldn’t pack air so it wouldn’t get up and go.
Tres suggested cg might be off and looking at the hull. That lead me to using the level and starting this post to see if center pods should have that kind of shape.

can’t come much more I think than the -2 on it.

I’ll check on the hull numbers.
 
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02HoWaRd26

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What prop are you runnning? And what’s your max rpm so far? I have a tuned 26 Max5 you can try if you’re local to Needles/Havasu. With your power and this prop I’d imagine you could push right through the hop with this.
 

Boat 405

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Top of mine transom housing is up against the rub rail. I installed a 12 imco extension box and a -2 imco lower. It helped quite a bit but they all hop.

Its a naturally occurring deal when the boat transitions from hydrodynamic lift to aero dynamic lift. Just about every tunnel does it. Generally with more HP you will blow right through it and not notice it. When you have about 650-700 is generally the worst because you don't have enough hp to really drive through it. Once you get through it the boat is up and hauling ass though.
 
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ONE-A-DAY

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Top of mine transom housing is up against the rub rail. I installed a 12 imco extension box and a -2 imco lower. It helped quite a bit but they all hop.

Its a naturally occurring deal when the boat transitions from hydrodynamic lift to aero dynamic lift. Just about every tunnel does it. Generally with more HP you will blow right through it and not notice it. When you have about 650-700 is generally the worst because you don't have enough hp to really drive through it. Once you get through it the boat is up and hauling ass though.
It’s a rush when it happens, whole new boat, if you get a daytona that is low on power you have no idea what your missing.
 

ONE-A-DAY

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The single step is a notoriously finicky hull, faster than a dual step but hard to sort out, one of the main reasons they came out with the twin step, they are a lot more user friendly and also a bigger cockpit.
 

RiverDave

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yes tres said the same about the tabs which is why I would like to find a solution not using them.

he drove it and played with trim and tabs and it still had the hop from 65-80. I believe there is some more in the sticks to get some additional speed but the hop felt like boat wouldn’t pack air so it wouldn’t get up and go.
Tres suggested cg might be off and looking at the hull. That lead me to using the level and starting this post to see if center pods should have that kind of shape.

can’t come much more I think than the -2 on it.

I’ll check on the hull numbers.
I am far from an expert on Daytona’s here but it looks to me like those tabs are gonna drag in the water even while they are all the way up.

is it possible to pull the bottom plates off and run the boat without them just to see how it goes?

The x also looks way low, but other than scrubbing some speed you should be able to dial it in through that.

what type of prop are you running? It says lab 29 but not what type.. you might try a Bravo XS and see how it runs.
What is the drive ratio?
Does the drive cavitate when it comes on plane?
 

pkrrvr619

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yes tres said the same about the tabs which is why I would like to find a solution not using them.

he drove it and played with trim and tabs and it still had the hop from 65-80. I believe there is some more in the sticks to get some additional speed but the hop felt like boat wouldn’t pack air so it wouldn’t get up and go.
Tres suggested cg might be off and looking at the hull. That lead me to using the level and starting this post to see if center pods should have that kind of shape.

I’ll check on the hull numbers.
Top of mine transom housing is up against the rub rail. I installed a 12 imco extension box and a -2 imco lower. It helped quite a bit but they all hop.

Its a naturally occurring deal when the boat transitions from hydrodynamic lift to aero dynamic lift. Just about every tunnel does it. Generally with more HP you will blow right through it and not notice it. When you have about 650-700 is generally the worst because you don't have enough hp to really drive through it. Once you get through it the boat is up and hauling ass though.
how much hp do you need to blow through it.
Oso guys say 700 gets them mid 80-90. Unless the x dimensions is killing me.
 
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pkrrvr619

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I am far from an expert on Daytona’s here but it looks to me like those tabs are gonna drag in the water even while they are all the way up.

is it possible to pull the bottom plates off and run the boat without them just to see how it goes?

The x also looks way low, but other than scrubbing some speed you should be able to dial it in through that.

what type of prop are you running? It says lab 29 but not what type.. you might try a Bravo XS and see how it runs.
What is the drive ratio?
Does the drive cavitate when it comes on plane?
looking into that. Maybe capping the lines to do a test. I’ll call Eddie marine.

drive is 1.5. Running bravo props now.

Prop guy I spoke with said prop has cavitation pits on the blades.

would tunnel tabs help I’m wondering.
 

pkrrvr619

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Hop at 70 ish is normal, it should go away by 80 and then accelerate smoothly from there.

Messing with the tabs at speed can kill you in a heartbeat. I’m sure Tres told you that, they are for getting on plane only.

Here is one of the 25’s I have had. I added a minus two and gained 6 mph, topped out around 85 in the winter time. No tabs, no idea on HP, was told around 600. You will see how much higher the x is on mine than yours so I would say you are still too low. And a 5 blade won’t help, 25’s prefer Bravo’s.

Tres is a brilliant marine design engineer, he drove it during the class I assume, what did he say?

How much throttle do you have left while it’s hopping? Some have issues because they don’t have enough power to make it past the hop.

Was you boat rigged by eliminator or someone else? ELI or ELB HIN number?

I would also call Kenny at the shop and talk to him. He will tell you that just about every Daytona will benefit from a -2.


View attachment 968810

it’s an elb boat
 

ONE-A-DAY

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looking into that. Maybe capping the lines to do a test. I’ll call Eddie marine.

drive is 1.5. Running bravo props now.

Prop guy I spoke with said prop has cavitation pits on the blades.

would tunnel tabs help I’m wondering.
Tunnel tab is only for getting on plane, using it for anything else could get you to the ER pretty quickly. The advantage of a tunnel tab is you can run a higher x and still be able to get on plane. My boat won’t plane without using it.

Also, does the boat have thru hull water pick ups? If so you can go much higher on the drive without water pressure issues.
 

pkrrvr619

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Tunnel tab is only for getting on plane, using it for anything else could get you to the ER pretty quickly. The advantage of a tunnel tab is you can run a higher x and still be able to get on plane. My boat won’t plane without using it.

Also, does the boat have thru hull water pick ups? If so you can go much higher on the drive without water pressure issues.
No through hull pick ups. Uses the IMCO lower for water pressure.

Are your tunnel tabs fixed? I was referring to the small little tabs Ive seen on some other members 25 single steps that are not adjustable. I believe they were used to add air compression from what Ive read.

The trim tabs which are on it i know can get me in trouble quick which is why I am looking to sort this out. I am hoping it is not a power issue as wiht 700 hp i should be able to blow by 80 mph right? Or is the lower x dimensions possibly screwing the top end up.
 

Taboma

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You need to see hydroscreamin thread in restoration section
God Bless that man, but following his thread has cured my "childhood abusive father" issues brought on from spending my childhood in what I felt was forced servitude, sanding wooden Chris Crafts.
After following Hydroscreamin's project I felt ashamed for feeling abused, that weren't nothing by comparison. 😂

Please note, that feeling of abuse was temporarily cured while spending my summers enjoying said Chris Crafts and water skiing behind them.
This " Need to ski" was of course used smartly by my father when I acted rebellious about sanding --- " You want to ski next summer ?? " " Get back to sanding !! "

The amount of attention and labor Hydroscreamin ( And friends) are putting into that project is absolutely insane. If it doesn't work, if it doesn't produce the desired results, that boat deserves to be burned to the waterline, live on RDP. :eek: ;)
 

DaveC

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Single step porpoise more than the dual step Daytona.

I had the dual step and it did not porpoise. And I had a 496 so it was slow 73 mph and I could not power through it. Lol

When we had glass water it did a little but I could turn out of it

You are not running on the center pod at speed.

I have never seen a Daytona with sponson tabs, only tunnel at tabs. My buddy had a single step with fixed tunnel tabs.

At least you have plenty of power to push through it.
 

DaveC

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In regards to the X diminension you need to measure the prop shaft center line in relation to the underside of the outside sponson. it’s tough to measure.

I would level the bottom of the boat at the sponson using the trailer jack. Then level drive and the prop shaft by adjusting the drive. I put a 2 x 4 across the bottom of the boat in the back. Then using a long straight edge followed the prop shaft forward to measure it in relation to the bottom of the outside sponson.

For example on my 27 the prop shaft was 1/2” lower than the outside sponson.

The actual x dimension is found by getting the crankshaft centerline but ain’t no one got time for that. The above is a good alternative. What is really important is the level of the prop shaft and you can compare that against a fixed object like the bottom.

I forgot what mine was on the 25 but I can ask EB what is high and low for the single step.
 
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pkrrvr619

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In regards to the X diminension you need to measure the prop shaft center line in relation to the underside of the outside sponson. it’s tough to measure.

I would level the bottom of the boat at the sponson using the trailer jack. Then level drive and the prop shaft by adjusting the drive. I put a 2 x 4 across the bottom of the boat in the back. Then using a long straight edge followed the prop shaft forward to measure it in relation to the bottom of the outside sponson.

For example on the 27 the prop shaft was 1/2” lower than the outside sponson.

The actual x dimension is found by getting the crankshaft centerline but ain’t no one got time for that. The above is a good alternative. What is really important is the level of the prop shaft and you can compare that against a fixed object like the bottom.

I forgot what mine was on the 25 but I can ask EB what is high and low for the single step.
I can't seem to get ahold of EB so if you have a line into them that would be helpful.

I measured the prop shaft level from the outside of the sponson and it was about 4" lower. That is the outermost chine on the sponson not the lowest part of the sponson. What's the difference between the outside and inside of the sponson? 3" or so?

So that would be the dimension at 1" below ish at the lowest part of the sponson.
Single step porpoise more than the dual step Daytona.

I had the dual step and it did not porpoise. And I had a 496 so it was slow 73 mph and I could not power through it. Lol

When we had glass water it did a little but I could turn out of it

You are not running on the center pod at speed.

I have never seen a Daytona with sponson tabs, only tunnel at tabs. My buddy had a single step with fixed tunnel tabs.

At least you have plenty of power to push through it.
That's the thing, the tabs were added to get rid of a violent hop, and there was a thread about it before i bought the boat unfortunately. The previous owner said to have tabs down then get going then pull tabs up at speed which Tres said is a no no.
 

ONE-A-DAY

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And 600 hp (estimated) on your sled does that?
Just past it into the low 80’s, don’t have that one anymore, the one I have now goes 122 so I solved that problem :)

Did Tres try to just pin it and get through it or does it just get too violent?
 

pkrrvr619

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We tried getting through it but were cautious and didn’t try to pin much as we were adjusting trim experimenting with tabs at speed etc.

Here’s the link the the previous owners dilemma which I wish I found before I bought the boat.
You can see original set up.

 

Motoxxxloak

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I had a single step 25. Big HP and also had the hop. However, as others have said, I was easily able to throttle out. I almost never had to use the sponson tabs. Literally almost never. The tunnel tabs were fixed and never adjusted them either. I can tell you my tabs were mounted to align with the sponsons, not horizontal like yours - not sure if that made a difference.

My hop was not even bad. It was maybe 72-76ish and was gone. If I was accelerating fast enough, the hop was almost non-existent. There are a lot of factors involved. I knew it hopped and I never tried to get rid of it (or looked in to it) as I knew it was something that was virtually unsolvable.

Here is the best pic I have of the angle.
Untitled.png


FullSizeR.jpg

IMG_6055.jpg

IMG_6174.jpg

You can kind of see them in the water here.
 

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pkrrvr619

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I had a single step 25. Big HP and also had the hop. However, as others have said, I was easily able to throttle out. I almost never had to use the sponson tabs. Literally almost never. The tunnel tabs were fixed and never adjusted them either. I can tell you my tabs were mounted to align with the sponsons, not horizontal like yours - not sure if that made a difference.

My hop was not even bad. It was maybe 72-76ish and was gone. If I was accelerating fast enough, the hop was almost non-existent. There are a lot of factors involved. I knew it hopped and I never tried to get rid of it (or looked in to it) as I knew it was something that was virtually unsolvable.

Here is the best pic I have of the angle.
View attachment 968905

View attachment 968901
View attachment 968902
View attachment 968903
You can kind of see them in the water here.
Looks like you have the same x dimension set up as well that i do wiht it being a couple inches lower than rub rail. What did the tunnel tabs do for you and how much HP did you have?
 

Taboma

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I had a single step 25. Big HP and also had the hop. However, as others have said, I was easily able to throttle out. I almost never had to use the sponson tabs. Literally almost never. The tunnel tabs were fixed and never adjusted them either. I can tell you my tabs were mounted to align with the sponsons, not horizontal like yours - not sure if that made a difference.

My hop was not even bad. It was maybe 72-76ish and was gone. If I was accelerating fast enough, the hop was almost non-existent. There are a lot of factors involved. I knew it hopped and I never tried to get rid of it (or looked in to it) as I knew it was something that was virtually unsolvable.

Here is the best pic I have of the angle.
View attachment 968905

View attachment 968901
View attachment 968902
View attachment 968903
You can kind of see them in the water here.

Did somebody install those 2 sets of tabs prior to your purchase, somebody chasing a hop ? Then finally learned that horsepower is the cure ? Or just got lucky ?

Is purchasing an Eliminator today a similar "Crap Shoot" experience, or are they selling a product that is dialed in, "AS built" when it leaves the factory ?

I get the feeling, although I've never owned one, that DCB's are well sorted out due to an untold number of hours of behind the wheel of various customer's examples.
At least for the price, I sure hope so !! How about Nordic, 95% dialed in now, or is this process still left up to the purchaser ? I understand that last bit of tweaking, or striving for that extra MPH, but these boats that are sold with known handling issues seems bizarre.
 

Motoxxxloak

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Looks like you have the same x dimension set up as well that i do wiht it being a couple inches lower than rub rail. What did the tunnel tabs do for you and how much HP did you have?
Tunnel and sponson tabs were there when I bought it. I cannot tell you the characteristics that it had before as I did not own it then. The boat ran fantastic whether it had 8 people or 2. I just attributed it to the tabs as I have heard and have seen hop w/out them. I never had it dyno'd after it was rebuilt, but was told it would be north of 1000
 

Motoxxxloak

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Did somebody install those 2 sets of tabs prior to your purchase, somebody chasing a hop ? Then finally learned that horsepower is the cure ? Or just got lucky ?

Is purchasing an Eliminator today a similar "Crap Shoot" experience, or are they selling a product that is dialed in, "AS built" when it leaves the factory ?

I get the feeling, although I've never owned one, that DCB's are well sorted out due to an untold number of hours of behind the wheel of various customer's examples.
At least for the price, I sure hope so !! How about Nordic, 95% dialed in now, or is this process still left up to the purchaser ? I understand that last bit of tweaking, or striving for that extra MPH, but these boats that are sold with known handling issues seems bizarre.
Yes, they were installed before I purchased. I am not sure if it was @gmnhra that did it or if it was the owner before him. When I bought it from Gary, it was pretty much dialed in. It had a dead cylinder early on but other than that, someone spent the time and the money making it right.

The original owner (I believe he was original owner - Wade Kelson - talked to him about it once) had it built for his wife. It had big power back then and I think he ran it to around 116. He said the same thing - had mild hop between 70-80 and then it was gone.

I believe most boats now-a-days are built to order. I do not see very many boats built "for inventory". Cannot answer your crap shoot question but most people know what they want (or at least can afford for power) and then everything else is recommended to them.
 

RiverDave

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Tunnel tab is only for getting on plane, using it for anything else could get you to the ER pretty quickly. The advantage of a tunnel tab is you can run a higher x and still be able to get on plane. My boat won’t plane without using it.

Also, does the boat have thru hull water pick ups? If so you can go much higher on the drive without water pressure issues.
He doesn’t have tunnel tabs
 

Teague_JR

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I would remove those sponson tabs and reinstall them over the tunnels. They are not installed correctly to serve their intended purpose as sponson tabs (see Motoxxxloak's post for the correct setup.) Tres is correct that dragging those tabs to stop a hop is a band-aid. You would only want to use sponson tabs to correct a lean (due to too much weight on one side or heavy cross wind) or to drive the nose down in big water (not really a big enough boat for that) or help the boat roll over on plane faster (and putting them over the tunnels will help with that as well)
 

Teague_JR

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unfortunately with the steering and exhaust and swim step it looks like this would be hard to do without getting really creative or filling a lot of holes...
 

RiverDave

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I would remove those sponson tabs and reinstall them over the tunnels. They are not installed correctly to serve their intended purpose as sponson tabs (see Motoxxxloak's post for the correct setup.) Tres is correct that dragging those tabs to stop a hop is a band-aid. You would only want to use sponson tabs to correct a lean (due to too much weight on one side or heavy cross wind) or to drive the nose down in big water (not really a big enough boat for that) or help the boat roll over on plane faster (and putting them over the tunnels will help with that as well)
As big as those things are I think I'd take them off and sell them and get sone wider shorter ones for tunnel tabs.

RD
 

Boat 405

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how much hp do you need to blow through it.
Oso guys say 700 gets them mid 80-90. Unless the x dimensions is killing me.
how much hp do you need to blow through it.
Oso guys say 700 gets them mid 80-90. Unless the x dimensions is killing me.
Mine had 780hp first go around. It was a bitch to get through and topped out at 103. I was running a 28 bravo 4 blade cleaned up by hill propellers. Now I have a bigger motor with 860 hp. Running a stock bravo 30 4 blade. It runs 109 and the larger prop seems to help with the hop. It pretty much runs through it without issues. 70-85 and it’s done in a few seconds. By 90-95 it’s smooth as glass. I’ve wanted to try a same prop with the diffuser cut off.
 
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pkrrvr619

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Mine had 780hp first go around. It was a bitch to get through and topped out at 103. I w


Mine had 780hp first go around. It was a bitch to get through and topped out at 103. I was running a 28 bravo 4 blade cleaned up by hill propellers. Now I have a bigger motor with 860 hp. Running a stock bravo 30 4 blade. It runs 109 and the larger prop seems to help with the hop. It pretty much runs through it without issues. 70-85 and it’s done in a few seconds. By 90-95 it’s smooth as glass. I’ve wanted to try a same prop with the diffuser cut off.
What is your x dimensions from the outer sponson if you know by chance?
 
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