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Dealership Callout

Uncle Dave

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In this model, where do you envision potential buyers actually getting to touch, feel and test drive ? At some mall, like Tesla ? No thanks, that feels to me like an auto show where I'm dealing with some family's spoiled brat crawling over and standing on the center console. I enjoy spending time just kicking around a car lot and find the buying experience fun, well, right up to that F & I guy anyway. 😖

Yes I do, and have. Same with a porsche dealer, they are very few and far between.

perfect - no such thing, but better.
For me its worth it to go to a place that actually knows the vehicle there are selling which not one salesperson has in my dealer experience.
You deal with the ankle biters climbing around at both places sadly.

Just because the sale is direct doenst mean you cant touch or drive the car, you just have to go where the car is, but then again the car I want isnt at every dealership either so I have to drive around anyway. You get the " what is your second choice" question when they cant come up with the car and options you want.
When looking for a 4x4 titan the sales guys kept telling me I dont need 4wd in california - lol like they know what I use the truck for.

This is far from one mall in the country, but certainly a long ways off a chevy dealership.
What state do you live in?

The tesla experience is what it is partially because the very guys you support fight them tooth and nail to not be able to sell to you.
Too much profit in that trukote and "invented scarcity", F&I tricks, and charlatanism which you wont fall for but its clear that many do.
 
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Taboma

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Yes I do, and have. Same with a porsche dealer, they are very few and far between.

perfect - no such thing, but better.
For me its worth it to go to a place that actually knows the vehicle there are selling which not one salesperson has in my dealer experience has.
You deal with the ankle biters climbing around at both places sadly.

Just because the sale is direct doenst mean you cant touch or dive the car, you just have to go where the car is, but then again the car I want isnt at evert dealership either so I have to drive around anyway. You get the " what is your second choice" question when they cant come up with the car and options you want.
When looking for a 4x4 titan the sales guys kept telling me I dont need 4wd in california - lol like they know what I use the truck for.

This is far from one mall in the country, but certainly a long ways off a chevy dealership.
What state do you live in?

The tesla experience is what it is partially because the very guys you support fight them tooth and nail to not be able to sell to you.
Too much profit in that trukote and "invented scarcity", F&I tricks, and charlatanism which you wont fall for but its clear that many do.

There's one Tesla Dealership showroom in San Diego. It's at University Town Center Mall. That Mall in all it's brilliance actually charges for parking -- fuck them.
But it's centrally located in the middle of "YuppieVille" so you can hang out with all the Hipster types and view the Teslas while sipping your Latte. 🥴 ;)
Soon Malls will be a thing of the past as well.
I enjoy just wandering around car lots and 90% of the time, if approached by some sales clown that annoys me, I have no qualms on telling him or her to get lost, or I will, one or the other.
I already KNOW the vehicles they're selling, usually far better than they do, Porsches being the notable exception, I couldn't tell a 1988 from a 2021, same as BMW's, although we did look seriously at a Porsche Macan for my wife, but the dealer was to proud of his product to consider negotiating, way to snooty for my likes, so we went elsewhere.

I bought my first new car in 67', and I look forward to the experience of replacing them about every 3 years, max so far has been 5. If Tesla opens a dealership within 30 miles of me, AND I don't have to pay to park, I'd like to actually sit in one and see how they drive.
 

pronstar

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Carmax is basically a used car lot they dont sell new cars.

Of course.

But it’s also a proof of concept to change the way cars are sold.

The ownership group has divested their new car dealerships (never branded as Carmax) because they couldn’t make the model work for new car sales.

While they don’t want to upset the status quo, every large dealership group is looking for ways the change the game for new car dealerships, because they don’t want to be caught-out when things do change.

And it was thought that Carmax could bring much of the Circuit City sales model to new car sales...back to the drawing board.



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rivermobster

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It’s definitely ripe for disruption.
It’s just been hard for new business models to take hold.

Saturn was first out of the gate with no-haggle pricing, but the rest of the dealer experience was unchanged.

Carmax has been pretty successful at changing things up. We’ll see how things change moving forward.

The problem is, there’s big money involved. And no one can afford the risk to commit to an entirely new business model.

Selling at Tesla volume is one thing.

But carmakers aren’t equipped to handle 50k pickup truck sales per week, or 17 million sales per year, let alone servicing all of those cars, and moving trade-in inventory...those cars go to auction, dealers buy them, and we’re back to where we started.

It’s a bazillion-dollar idea if someone can figure it out.


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You know as well as I do, it's all about the dealership principles. The owner, the GM and the sales managers.

Very few high and dealerships will use there type of tactics.

Very few domestic car dealerships won't use these kinds of tactics! They just can't figure out.

It's sad.
 

HALLETT BOY

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Went to carmax one time , they had a 3 year old SUV with 60k miles . Dealer across the street was selling the exact same SUV , only brand new , no miles and full factory warranty and 3 years newer for the same price . I told the salesperson about it and asked if they would reconsider their price ? She said No . I think Carmax is a business that launders dirty money ? Who in their right mind would pay that much for a used car ? I know some people don’t like to negotiate, but to pay that much over real value ?
 

rmarion

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This is the reason I used a car broker for 15 years.... purchased 8 vehicles from him... all new purchases..... no hassles, $500 over invoice. 10 minutes of paperwork, yow want the extended warranty..yes or no... Nope .. all good... here are your keys... Get the F out of here... I'll see you in a few years... he played the game.... turned it around and made a decent living being honest.... passed away about 10 years ago..

RIP Micheal Rice

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pronstar

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You know as well as I do, it's all about the dealership principles. The owner, the GM and the sales managers.

Very few high and dealerships will use there type of tactics.

Very few domestic car dealerships won't use these kinds of tactics! They just can't figure out.

It's sad.

For sure. But as they say, “it’s complicated”.

One reason why Is because high-end dealerships don’t need to do deep discounts beyond what the factory offers - it doesn’t cut into their profit margins, because their clients are willing to pay. There’s more profit to be made on the sale.

They don’t need to rely so much on shady F&I departments.

You just don’t see crappy $1200 pinstripe jobs at a Mercedes-Benz dealership, they don’t have to stoop to such levels.

There are also way fewer dealerships to compete with.

As stated above, the supply /demand curve is a bit different.

Volume/lower-end dealerships will offer deeper discounts that cut into their margins, because they’re competing with the store down the street.

And their customers are much more price conscious.

These are some reasons.
There’s tons more.




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rivermobster

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For sure. But as they say, “it’s complicated”.

One reason why Is because high-end dealerships don’t need to do deep discounts beyond what the factory offers - it doesn’t cut into their profit margins, because their clients are willing to pay. There’s more profit to be made on the sale.

They don’t need to rely so much on shady F&I departments.

You just don’t see crappy $1200 pinstripe jobs at a Mercedes-Benz dealership, they don’t have to stoop to such levels.

There are also way fewer dealerships to compete with.

As stated above, the supply /demand curve is a bit different.

Volume/lower-end dealerships will offer deeper discounts that cut into their margins, because they’re competing with the store down the street.

And their customers are much more price conscious.

These are some reasons.
There’s tons more.




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When Lexus of Glendale got bought out by Sonic, and they fired all of us in management positions, the GM got a job at at the Cadillac store down the street.

They wanted him to bring some Lexus style customer service to their store. If memory serves, he lasted there about four weeks.

Lexus of Glendale was #1 in the district when we were there, so his track record was rock solid.

The first thing Sonic did when they took over was forbid us from going to the monthly Lexus dealer meetings. They said no way we're we going to share our secrets with the other Lexus dealer out there.

There is a whole different culture between Import and domestic dealerships. I've been on both sides of those fences. The domestics will Never change. 😔
 

pronstar

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When Lexus of Glendale got bought out by Sonic, and they fired all of us in management positions, the GM got a job at at the Cadillac store down the street.

They wanted him to bring some Lexus style customer service to their store. If memory serves, he lasted there about four weeks.

Lexus of Glendale was #1 in the district when we were there, so his track record was rock solid.

The first thing Sonic did when they took over was forbid us from going to the monthly Lexus dealer meetings. They said no way we're we going to share our secrets with the other Lexus dealer out there.

There is a whole different culture between Import and domestic dealerships. I've been on both sides of those fences. The domestics will Never change. [emoji17]

One big difference between Cadillac vs Lexus dealerships:

Each brand sells about 300k cars annually, give or take. Was true when you worked at the dealer level so bear with me...

At that time, there were 1200 Caddy dealers competing to sell those 300k cars.

There were about 240 Lexus dealers.

Averaged out, that’s 250 Caddy new car sales per store in a given year

Compare that to an average of 1,250 Lexus new cars sales per store in a given year.

1/4 the stores, selling 4x as many cars.
Owning a Lexus dealership is a license to print money.

While a Caddy dealer still had to compete against the store across the street. They had to scrap a lot harder to maintain high profitability. The Lexus business model just wouldn’t work.

Newport Lexus has a $5 million fountain in front of it LOL


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Tamalewagon

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I wish I noticed the Dutton Dave that advertises on here before I bought my truck. Say he delivers to Havasu. I checked his inventory. Way better than around here. Next time when my lease is up on my new uncomfortable Denali. Going back to Escalade.

We purchased a car through Dutton Dave. Best car purchasing experience we have ever had. Huge kudos to Dave.
 

Blue Oval

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I have my customers telling me horror stories all the time. We operate out of a 100 year old Ford Dealership. We do not charge DOC fees, we do not have a F&I department(salesman does everything). I have a very good following from my Boyne Thunder friends. No games or BS. 90% of our sales are orders, we don't keep a large inventory. We don't do much advertising and depend on customer referrals. Almost 50 years owned by our family. There are some dealerships with some pride left. Most of the dealerships around me have been bought up by large companies. They have no morals or respect for their customers or fellow dealerships.
 

rivermobster

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One big difference between Cadillac vs Lexus dealerships:

Each brand sells about 300k cars annually, give or take. Was true when you worked at the dealer level so bear with me...

At that time, there were 1200 Caddy dealers competing to sell those 300k cars.

There were about 240 Lexus dealers.

Averaged out, that’s 250 Caddy new car sales per store in a given year

Compare that to an average of 1,250 Lexus new cars sales per store in a given year.

1/4 the stores, selling 4x as many cars.
Owning a Lexus dealership is a license to print money.

While a Caddy dealer still had to compete against the store across the street. They had to scrap a lot harder to maintain high profitability. The Lexus business model just wouldn’t work.

Newport Lexus has a $5 million fountain in front of it LOL


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I'm not arguing with any of that. I get how the numbers work. :)

What you're not hearing is...

It's the culture that I'm talking about! By culture, I mean, how people are treated. And you know all too well, I'm service side guy, not sales!

We bent over backwards to make people happy. To make them feel warm and fuzzy every chance we could. We were never disrespectful to people at ANY level. That attitude flows down from the people upstairs.

Do you remember who Mike Salta was? That fuckhead owned a shit ton of dealerships at one point. He was a complete thief. I worked at one of his Toyota dealerships for about 4 weeks. I couldn't take any more than that! He started with domestics, and he brought that fucked up culture to Toyota. It was a terrible place to work. They would rip clients off in sales and service all day long. Salta, being the dealer principle, was in complete control of the culture. He make the place the shit hole it was. He ended up loosing every dealership he had. Domestics and imports. His thieving finally caught up with him.

And I'm not talking about just Lexus here. I worked for BMW, Bentley and Rolls Royce. Even Lincoln Mercury way back in the day! That was only domestic dealer that was kind to their customers. It was owned by Bruce Crary, and that guy was a prince. He brought his kindness to everything, and his employees just magically followed suit. It was the same way when I worked for Penske. It didn't matter if it was a Toyota or a Lexus Dealer he owned. He expected total courtesy from his employees towards customers at all time. It was the culture he expected at his stores. The customer is king. Period the end.

Just because supply is low, and demand is high, does not give you the right to treat people like shit.

Can you charge more?? Well hell yeah! Dennis Assael sold the first Z8 he got for like 40k over window, and made the customer feel like a king the whole time! No one that worked there could believe he did it.

When I got my paychecks, working at Penske, it came in an envelope that had big fat bold letters printed on the outside of it. They said...

"This paycheck was brought to you by our customers!"

Now that I've put this much thought into this subject, I have to say it's really not domestics vs. imports. It's more about the people that are signing the paychecks. Penske owns domestics as well as import dealers. Even though I've never worked at one, I'm gonna guess his Caddy dealers operate the same way his Lexus Dealers do, with class, style and respect for every customer that walks in the door.

;)
 

pronstar

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I hear you brother.

We’re saying the same thing.

Folks like Penske do things right. Not that they can afford to, but it what for them to where they are.

Lots of dealers chase the dollar and treat people like crap. It’s how they started out, and it’s all they know.

You’re absolutely right, higher-end import makes are much more selective in who they bring into the fold as dealers.

The guy with the Caddy store could’ve got it because he ponied up the dough to GM Corporate back in the day, or took the regional dude to a strip club. I will say they say they’ve learned their lesson, and are supposedly much more selective in who they allow to sell cars.

But a shitty dealership who’s moving a ton of iron won’t get the cold shoulder from GM.


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Taboma

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My wife owned one new Lexus or another from 1990 to 2015, and most of that was due to how she was treated by their service department and in general at the dealership.
She'd be driving one today, except despite numerous dealer visits we couldn't find a model she liked.
We're with Audi now and quite honestly, the Carlsbad dealership we purchased from and use for service has been awesome in every respect. Ironically, while purchasing the Audi a very nice lady came over to say hi, who we both recognized, because she'd been a manager at a Lexus dealership we'd purchased from several years prior.
 

John

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We're dealing the an issue with a BMW CPO right now that is maddening.. I 100% regret just not buying my wife a new one. I won't ever do it again.
I had a CPO BMW a few years back. It broke down 17 times over 16 months. Constantly in for service. I had it towed 7 or 8 times. It was quite frustrating. The service manager at Irvine BMW ended up being pretty cool. BMW spent more fixing the car than it was worth. It was like $50k or so in repairs. The final issue was a blown motor. On the plus side, I got to test drive (loan cars) every BMW model. In the end, BMW bought the car back for my original purchase price, plus repaid me all of my payments. On my way to drop the car off for the buyback, it broke down one final time, 1 mile away from the dealer. The car just seemed to want one last tow in...

Its its been really bad, call BMW North America customer service and start asking them to buy the car back. It took a number of calls and a bunch of patience, but worked out ok for me.
 

pronstar

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Friends of ours have a BMW 7er from around 2005 or so.

They’re pretty wealthy and he can drive anything he wants. But he loves the car, and keeps extending the warranty for as long as they’d take his money.

They won’t sell him anymore extended warranties so he’s got to get rid of it soon.

He’s got a binder that’s several inches thick, all service records. He said it’s probably over $40k in warranty work that’s been done to the car LOL


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Chili Palmer

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You’re right about the higher end import dealers, they do treat you well. We had a 2001 Lexus GS430 that when it went for even an oil change we got a loaner - and we didn’t even her to refil the gas tank. BMW of Ontario, then Savage BMW also treated us awesome. Fuck BMW of Monrovia - those guys suck! Then when we got the Caddy CTS-V we went to Mark Christopher, what a f’n joke - nobody came to greet me in the service drive and then when I went inside the service office nobody even acknowledged me, they were too busy playing solitaire on their laptops. Then when I went to pick up the car when it was done they couldn’t find it. Then an hour later they found it, but then they couldn’t find the key. 🤬 I so dread taking it in to the dealer, especially now that GM has consolidated their dealerships.
 

Uncle Dave

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I have my customers telling me horror stories all the time. We operate out of a 100 year old Ford Dealership. We do not charge DOC fees, we do not have a F&I department(salesman does everything). I have a very good following from my Boyne Thunder friends. No games or BS. 90% of our sales are orders, we don't keep a large inventory. We don't do much advertising and depend on customer referrals. Almost 50 years owned by our family. There are some dealerships with some pride left. Most of the dealerships around me have been bought up by large companies. They have no morals or respect for their customers or fellow dealerships.

Family owned dealerships run with pride and integrity are a rare thing these days.
congrats.
 

rivermobster

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Friends of ours have a BMW 7er from around 2005 or so.

They’re pretty wealthy and he can drive anything he wants. But he loves the car, and keeps extending the warranty for as long as they’d take his money.

They won’t sell him anymore extended warranties so he’s got to get rid of it soon.

He’s got a binder that’s several inches thick, all service records. He said it’s probably over $40k in warranty work that’s been done to the car LOL


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7 Series. Best diving, worst record for dependability EVER!!!

The resale is beyond embarrassing.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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It’s definitely ripe for disruption.
It’s just been hard for new business models to take hold.

Saturn was first out of the gate with no-haggle pricing, but the rest of the dealer experience was unchanged.

Carmax has been pretty successful at changing things up. We’ll see how things change moving forward.

The problem is, there’s big money involved. And no one can afford the risk to commit to an entirely new business model.

Selling at Tesla volume is one thing.

But carmakers aren’t equipped to handle 50k pickup truck sales per week, or 17 million sales per year, let alone servicing all of those cars, and moving trade-in inventory...those cars go to auction, dealers buy them, and we’re back to where we started.

It’s a bazillion-dollar idea if someone can figure it out.


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Carmax is essentially you just paying MSRP.

You are paying a high market price to have a simple buying experience lol.
 

rivermobster

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I have my customers telling me horror stories all the time. We operate out of a 100 year old Ford Dealership. We do not charge DOC fees, we do not have a F&I department(salesman does everything). I have a very good following from my Boyne Thunder friends. No games or BS. 90% of our sales are orders, we don't keep a large inventory. We don't do much advertising and depend on customer referrals. Almost 50 years owned by our family. There are some dealerships with some pride left. Most of the dealerships around me have been bought up by large companies. They have no morals or respect for their customers or fellow dealerships.


Hey dude! Put that vid back up!!! I just watched it. Made me smile from ear to ear. 👍 👍
 

Taboma

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Carmax is essentially you just paying MSRP.

You are paying a high market price to have a simple buying experience lol.

Buddy just sold them his 15' Jeep Grand Cherokee, they paid him more than any dealership offers, despite the dealership sending him emails begging to buy it.
Seems if you've got something they want, they're willing to step up to get it.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Buddy just sold them his 15' Jeep Grand Cherokee, they paid him more than any dealership offers, despite the dealership sending him emails begging to buy it.
Seems if you've got something they want, they're willing to step up to get it.

They do, and they turn around and sell it for top of the market. They also know where certain cars are in demand, and reorganize them accordingly, getting them cheaper in one market with less demand and selling them for more in another market with higher demand. You'll rarely get any kind of deal at Carmax, but it does happen.

My brother just sold his CTS-V privately that he bought from Carmax 6 years ago for $1K more than he paid for it. The Carmax valuation algorithm does not really take into account specialty cars. My brother's car was a 6 speed manual hardtop car with the Recaro seats. They devalued it because they viewed it as "low option", when in reality it is a very rare spec that people will pay more for. When he showed up to buy it they were wondering why so many people had called about it. The car was probably $5-6K under "market" when he got it for the no haggle price.
 

OC Mike

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I went through this Shit Show last year guys trying to buy a Jeep Cherokee for my daughter.
Hemet Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, what a bunch of ass clowns.
Advertised at 12,800. Price seemed fair, if its decent, we'll write a check and be done.
Nope, after an hour of B/S and no's I point blank ask, what do I have to write a check for?
$16,400.00, got up and walked.

Told the wife to get the check writing price on any others before we go.
Most would not or it was sold.

Finally the last one, which I thought I didn't want to go to, could not have been more pleasant.
They gave the check writing price over the phone.
They did offer the Diamond Wax and few other items, a polite no and that was that.
Penske Cadillac in Torrance.

After the sale we had an issue with a cup holder, they fixed it, and it wasn't easy.
I know there a few good dealers listed here, justed wanted to give credit to Penske for this one.
BTW, I let my daughter come with us on this one. She thinks Penske is the greatest.....
 

rivermobster

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I went through this Shit Show last year guys trying to buy a Jeep Cherokee for my daughter.
Hemet Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, what a bunch of ass clowns.
Advertised at 12,800. Price seemed fair, if its decent, we'll write a check and be done.
Nope, after an hour of B/S and no's I point blank ask, what do I have to write a check for?
$16,400.00, got up and walked.

Told the wife to get the check writing price on any others before we go.
Most would not or it was sold.

Finally the last one, which I thought I didn't want to go to, could not have been more pleasant.
They gave the check writing price over the phone.
They did offer the Diamond Wax and few other items, a polite no and that was that.
Penske Cadillac in Torrance.

After the sale we had an issue with a cup holder, they fixed it, and it wasn't easy.
I know there a few good dealers listed here, justed wanted to give credit to Penske for this one.
BTW, I let my daughter come with us on this one. She thinks Penske is the greatest.....

Penske?? I'm shocked! 😁

Sometimes I think I bore people. I try not to push my old stuff on them.

Very cool vid bro. That was a great trip back in time. 👍👍
 

pronstar

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Carmax is essentially you just paying MSRP.

You are paying a high market price to have a simple buying experience lol.

Put another way...

People despise the car buying experience so much, they’re willing to pay for a better, seemingly more transparent experience.

That’s one thing I learned form my former
People pay for experiences [emoji106]

It put Lexus on the map and shifted an entire industry.


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rivermobster

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Put another way...

People despise the car buying experience so much, they’re willing to pay for a better, seemingly more transparent experience.

That’s one thing I learned form my former
People pay for experiences [emoji106]

It put Lexus on the map and shifted an entire industry.


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Yep! The whole history of how Lexus came to be is pretty cool. I started with them the year after they launched. As you know, they treat their employees to a first class working environment as well. 👍
 

OC Mike

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I have an aquaintance who deals in 'After market dealer products.'
He lives very nicely..........
 

Maestro

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Hatfield is a no BS dealer, but inventory is tight!

The sales manager who I have purchased 4 vehicles from told me please don’t wreck my 2021 Yukon Denali, he doesn’t know when he would be able to replace it....
I second Hatfield, bought my caddy from them. No haggling no surprises.
 

Blue Oval

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Very cool vid bro. That was a great trip back in time. 👍👍
[/QUOTE]

The start of the video is a Model T in a rail car.The cars were dropped off behind the dealership by train. Then they would finish assembling them to get them off the train. The true meaning of a dealer prep. Yep, I have a lot of old stories. Thank you for the respect!
 

rivermobster

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Very cool vid bro. That was a great trip back in time. 👍👍

The start of the video is a Model T in a rail car.The cars were dropped off behind the dealership by train. Then they would finish assembling them to get them off the train. The true meaning of a dealer prep. Yep, I have a lot of old stories. Thank you for the respect!
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I started at the dealership level in the late 70's. I worked there for 11 years (till the sold it), and I was still the low guy on the totem pole, even after 11 years!

I have some great stories as well. Life was good before anyone had heard of HR. 😁
 
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