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Dealing with deteriorating elderly

lbhsbz

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The wife’s grandmother (single) has been degrading physically for several years to the point she has been in a wheelchair at an assisted living facility for at least the last 2 years.

She is also suffering from dimentia, but had that diag. Overturned by finding the right doctor a few years ago.

She is spending money like it grows on trees...having a gardener do repairs / work on her house (empty) and income properties to the tube of over $300K in the last few years. She has never met the guy or seen his work, but found him on angie’s list.

She is currently almost $50K behind on paying for prescriptions and the cost of the facility.

Her daughter, the wife’s mom...has been blackballed because grandma thought she was trying to steal all the money.

We have visibility of only one bank acct...which is mostly empty. Krystal (my wife) evidently got POA over medical issues, but not finances.

At this point, someone Lucid needs to take over everything...financial, property, medical, the whole deal...because the woman is too incapacitated mentally to make sound decisions. (She paid the dude $120K to put a Bocci ball court and fake grass in a 40x15’ area in her backyard at a house she’ll likely never see again)

What sort of attorney do we need to consult? I realize this will be out of pocket for me...and I don’t really care. It will be more out of pocket for me (And the family) if we don’t get a handle On it NOW I think.

We’re not in this to get grandmas money...we’re in this to make sure she has enough (which she should...more than plenty enough) so that the rest of the family doesn’t go broke providing care until the end....before she gives it to gardener boy.

Grandma is in SF, we’re in LA.

Any advise is appreciated.
 
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RiverDave

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120K for a Bocci ball court? Jesus.. is it made of gold? WTF?

That guy has his hooks in her deep!

Sucks on a smaller scale we are going through a similar issue, and I'm just kinda dealing with it the best I can.

RD
 
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lbhsbz

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120K for a Bocci ball court? Jesus.. is it made of gold? WTF?

That guy has his hooks in her deep!

Sucks on a smaller scale we are going through a similar issue, and I'm just kinda dealing with it the best I can.

RD
The kicker is that has talked her into writing him multiple checks on the same day for the same amount...just under $10,000. Since I’m outta work...I’m tempted to make a road trip and find this fucker, but the legal avenue will probably turn out better.
 

SBMech

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File an elder abuse claim against him, get a restraining order in the mean time, but you need to get POA over her finances or she'll just give it away again to someone else.

You need to get a few other reasonable quotes to show how much he over charged, and to prove her disconnect with reality/financial responsibility.
 

lbhsbz

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File an elder abuse claim against him, get a restraining order in the mean time, but you need to get POA over her finances or she'll just give it away again to someone else.

You need to get a few other reasonable quotes to show how much he over charged, and to prove her disconnect with reality/financial responsibility.
Right. What sort of an atty do I need to seek out to help with the POA?
 

SBMech

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Singleton and Cobalt are on it, family law lawyer is the one you want.
 

SBMech

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...and a dictionary. Lol
Right! Living trust, Conservatorship, shit....good luck man, sucks you have to backstop that, you are a good man for doing it though.

Happy wife, happy life! ;)
 

rivermobster

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Pretty sure you are going to want a Probate Attorney. Mine retired, but he told me the chick that took over his is even better than him.

PM me if you want me to dig up her number
 

CoolCruzin

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The kicker is that has talked her into writing him multiple checks on the same day for the same amount...just under $10,000. Since I’m outta work...I’m tempted to make a road trip and find this fucker, but the legal avenue will probably turn out better.
I think beating the hell out of him and take his money would be better
 

ka0tyk

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you can file power of attorney if shes willing to sign the docs... if shes too far gone or untrusting you'll need the court to award conservatorship to someone. the later is extremely expensive and time consuming, possibly impossible right now with covid crap. gathering the family and having a meeting together with her might win her over. with my grandmother we got to it ahead of time, she started to become extremely combative, verbally abusive, etc. she was kicked out of a few Alzheimer care facilities until eventually we found one in pasadena that was a specialize Alzheimer's/hospice care facility. it was bascially a converted home rather than a medial facility and she thought it was her home and calmed down. she also had dementia so she would have these dreams thinking someone was cheating, stealing money, etc...

it is a terrible disease. good luck.
 

Cobalt232

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I can refer you to someone in Newport Beach (right by John Wayne Airport) that does very good work. They have an excellent Estate Planning as well as a Trust and Probate team.
 

lbhsbz

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you can file power of attorney if shes willing to sign the docs... if shes too far gone or untrusting you'll need the court to award conservatorship to someone. the later is extremely expensive and time consuming, possibly impossible right now with covid crap. gathering the family and having a meeting together with her might win her over. with my grandmother we got to it ahead of time, she started to become extremely combative, verbally abusive, etc. she was kicked out of a few Alzheimer care facilities until eventually we found one in pasadena that was a specialize Alzheimer's/hospice care facility. it was bascially a converted home rather than a medial facility and she thought it was her home and calmed down. she also had dementia so she would have these dreams thinking someone was cheating, stealing money, etc...

it is a terrible disease. good luck.
We have that...what we don’t have, the someone believes exists, is the the documentation to revoke POA.

I could call grandma and ask her to send me a copy, but...I’ll wait. The atty that prepared these docs has since retired...so I imagine that it’s filed with the court, if it exists at all. I’ll pursue that tomorrow.
 

92 cole

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Somebody IN THE FAMILY needs to take power of attorney. First question =does she have a will signed prior to mental demise. 2nd question has she written another will after her diagnosis of demensia. I am in the middle of all this and I will say it straight out "be careful who you trust" . Greed plays a nasty hand in these situations and will destroy a family in a heart beat. As I stated I am in a situation with my mother (last surviving Parent) also involved is my sister ,brother and I am the youngest . P.O.A was renamed from original to my brother in-law. Again Be CAREFUL.
 

lbhsbz

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Somebody IN THE FAMILY needs to take power of attorney. First question =does she have a will signed prior to mental demise. 2nd question has she written another will after her diagnosis of demensia. I am in the middle of all this and I will say it straight out "be careful who you trust" . Greed plays a nasty hand in these situations and will destroy a family in a heart beat. As I stated I am in a situation with my mother (last surviving Parent) also involved is my sister ,brother and I am the youngest . P.O.A was renamed from original to my brother in-law. Again Be CAREFUL.
Your points are all valid.
 

RiverDave

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The fucker of these situations is everybody has that fucked up sibling that thinks no matter what you are trying to do you are trying to steal their money... In reality they themselves would have no problem doing it.. (weird projection thing)

Then going to the person / parent and trying to explain to them (even if they are past the edge) that they aren't responsible enough to handle their money themselves.. How would you react to that if someone tried to tell you that? You are basically telling them you'd like to control their life..

There is no good answer..

RD
 

Justsomeguy

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You need an estate/trust/probate attorney. I do have a recommendation. I belive he is in the Cerritos area.
 

lbhsbz

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Btw. I’ve instructed the wife to simply shoot me when I get to that point...which I fully believed would happen 5 seconds later....but it didn’t. My will will give all my toys to the one who pulls the trigger. I have no desire to put my family or friends through any sort of this bullshit.


Have a party, clean out my garage if anything the wife or kid don’t want, and GTFO....drop me in a hole in the desert on your way to the river towing my boat. It’s just easier that way.
 

The Prisoner

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The fucker of these situations is everybody has that fucked up sibling that thinks no matter what you are trying to do you are trying to steal their money... In reality they themselves would have no problem doing it.. (weird projection thing)

Then going to the person / parent and trying to explain to them (even if they are past the edge) that they aren't responsible enough to handle their money themselves.. How would you react to that if someone tried to tell you that? You are basically telling them you'd like to control their life..

There is no good answer..

RD
How true this is.....went through this 10 years ago when the ole lady’s mother died.....the siblings were fighting over dishes and shit you wouldn’t pay ten cents for at a thrift shop...people can be petty assholes at times like that. I saw what was happening and with my zero patience that I have I left extremely quick!
 

Looking Glass

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How true this is.....went through this 10 years ago when the ole lady’s mother died.....the siblings were fighting over dishes and shit you wouldn’t pay ten cents for at a thrift shop...people can be petty assholes at times like that. I saw what was happening and with my zero patience that I have I left extremely quick!

People's True Nature comes out when $'s are involved. I have watched who I thought were Good People Screw Family over Money. I have thought at times what their Parents would think or what they would do different if could see it?
 

DWC

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Btw. I’ve instructed the wife to simply shoot me when I get to that point...which I fully believed would happen 5 seconds later....but it didn’t. My will will give all my toys to the one who pulls the trigger. I have no desire to put my family or friends through any sort of this bullshit.


Have a party, clean out my garage if anything the wife or kid don’t want, and GTFO....drop me in a hole in the desert on your way to the river towing my boat. It’s just easier that way.
I told my kids the same this weekend. Watched my FIL go thru Alzheimer’s. What a mother f’r to see a person that could build anything to not know his name. My instructions were to put me down when i couldn’t remember their names. I did emphasize to ask at least a few times to make sure i heard the question.
 

monkeyswrench

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Btw. I’ve instructed the wife to simply shoot me when I get to that point...which I fully believed would happen 5 seconds later....but it didn’t. My will will give all my toys to the one who pulls the trigger. I have no desire to put my family or friends through any sort of this bullshit.


Have a party, clean out my garage if anything the wife or kid don’t want, and GTFO....drop me in a hole in the desert on your way to the river towing my boat. It’s just easier that way.
Yes sir. Sell what is left, or the kids can have or sell my tools...Wife knows if I'm terminal, not going out in a hospital bed like my Mom or Pops did. There will be a newsworthy crater somewhere with empty nitrous bottles bouncing around. If it becomes mental lapse, I hope to catch it and end it before my family.
...if there is a service, Friday morning, done by lunch, and everybody can use me as an excuse for a long weekend ;)

I'm sorry you have to go through this. In a way, it is kind of odd to me. My parents have been gone for some time now...grandparents quite a bit longer. Funny, there wasn't a lot to fight over, not to me. Wife thought I should have done this or that...so tread lightly, her family this mess, may be yours later...it's a weird deal. Take care of you and your girl, the rest will always kind of work itself out, one way or another.

As for my parents stuff...my brother took flat screen TV's, my Pops' tools...pretty much anything of retail value.
All I wanted out of the house I grew up in was an ice cream scoop. It was a wedding gift, cast aluminum...pretty sure it was used at The Last Supper.
Damnit, every rootbeer float and sundae I had as a kid with my parents...yes sir, that scoop is in my silverware drawer. Yes, ice cream and nostalgia was more my priority:cool:
 

92 cole

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I could write a whole page on this subject. I really hate this subject as we speak because I am finding the true colors of siblings and it makes me sick to see how blood will ruin a family over money. As we speak my mother(whats left of her ) is still alive. Until she passes I will go along with the life she would want. That's the best I can do at this point. At the end I don't think I will ever speak to some of my family ever again and that breaks my heart. This all goes along with an old proverb I truly believe in. May I spend my last dime and breath at the same moment. M
 

bocco

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Damn sorry to hear this. I got my mom to give me POA before dimentia set in. I'm an only child so no sibling issues. She is burning through cash at a rate that would have my dad cussing her in Italian if he was still alive. At least I was able to keep her from blowing large $$$ on to much stupid shit.
 

92 cole

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Yes sir. Sell what is left, or the kids can have or sell my tools...Wife knows if I'm terminal, not going out in a hospital bed like my Mom or Pops did. There will be a newsworthy crater somewhere with empty nitrous bottles bouncing around. If it becomes mental lapse, I hope to catch it and end it before my family.
...if there is a service, Friday morning, done by lunch, and everybody can use me as an excuse for a long weekend ;)

I'm sorry you have to go through this. In a way, it is kind of odd to me. My parents have been gone for some time now...grandparents quite a bit longer. Funny, there wasn't a lot to fight over, not to me. Wife thought I should have done this or that...so tread lightly, her family this mess, may be yours later...it's a weird deal. Take care of you and your girl, the rest will always kind of work itself out, one way or another.

As for my parents stuff...my brother took flat screen TV's, my Pops' tools...pretty much anything of retail value.
All I wanted out of the house I grew up in was an ice cream scoop. It was a wedding gift, cast aluminum...pretty sure it was used at The Last Supper.
Damnit, every rootbeer float and sundae I had as a kid with my parents...yes sir, that scoop is in my silverware drawer. Yes, ice cream and nostalgia was more my priority:cool:
I well know the feeling! I spent more time with my father than any body else and after (lets just say others stepped in ) I was written out of the will and "others" are getting every thing. But being my mother (whom i also spent more time with than anybody) is stlll alive. when she passes and the will is read "the shit will hit the fan". This is the crap that money brings out the UGLY side of people. I can honestly say I don't want it all(which I was promised years ago) I just want it far to all, including grandchildren and great grandchildren which have also been written off. Especially my son, my fathers name-sake.
 

C-2

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There are guardianships and conservatorships, and financial powers of attorney, but forcing them upon a person is not always an easy task; you need to prove the elderly person no longer has the capacity to make financial decisions. What does the facility say, how can she be in such financial arrearages without legal action from the facility, who are also mandatory reporters? Don't they have an onsite advocate there?

Many large cities usually have elder abuse forensic centers to assess capacity - usually for free if you can get the person to submit to such an exam. https://www.ioaging.org/collaborations-elder-protection/elder-abuse-prevention/

For the ongoing construction work, CSLB may be interested in a case. They are not the police, but anybody can file a complaint on behalf of another person if you believe she was overcharged or the work was bad. You would need address and project details. If the "gardener" is not licensed, then he can be charged criminally; and if he is not licensed, he can be disgorged in civil court, meaning any money paid to him must be returned. Of course, he wouldn't have the money, but he might think twice about doing it again.
 

twocents

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Alzheimer is a terrible disease, both for the person inflicted and the immediate family members trying to do the right thing. I endured this situation about twenty years ago with my dad and it wasn't easy. My 'twocents': step #1 -- get a face-to-face meeting ASAP with the doctor who has some history with your wife's grandmother. You will need that doctor (and possibly one other) willing to testify in court or be deposed stating that grandma no longer has the capacity to make rational decisions regarding her financial or health related issues. This isn't always easy, many doctors will sympathize with you but are reluctant to stick their neck out on this. But without professional medical backing, getting a conservatorship is almost impossible. Step #2 -- find yourself a good family law attorney and have them start the conservatorship process. Yes, it will be costly but worth every penny in the end. Be prepared for a struggle depending upon what judge hears your petition.

You also mentioned that grandma had been kicked out of a couple of previous care facilities (my dad was bounced from several facilities over the course of three years) -- this isn't good. Care facilities don't want problem patients and that news travels fast among faciities. If this happens again it might be very difficult to find another facility willing to admit her. Stand your ground on this one and push back against the facility -- appeal to the ombudsman who will help you stand up for your grandmas rights.

One last question: you mentioned that grandma is about $50,000 behind on care facility payments and prescription costs. Who consigned with grandma to be financially responsible when she initially checked into the care facility? I don't know of any care facility that doesn't require a cosigner on that agreement. Do you have access to a copy of that agreement? Any debt still owed for her care when she passes doesn't disappear upon death -- the cosigner is on the hook for any and all outstanding balance dues and care facilities are good at getting their money.

All I can do is wish you much luck -- you will get through this.
 
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