Desert Storm Shootout “C’Mon Man”

[Ace in the Hole]

RDP will be there this year!

We will likely be there as well, but without the boat.

 

[The Prisoner]

My boat got to 53 once. At night and the water was like glass by Black Meadow Landing.

 

[Shlbyntro]

Does the GPS account for the curvature of the earth??

Asking for a friend

 

[coolchange]

Does the GPS account for the curvature of the earth??

Asking for a friend

Only on the uphill side of the curve.

 

[Good Stuff]

Not sure what equipment they are using... but I’m a tad familiar with radar use for speed, and this makes zero sense as a reason the speeds were off. [emoji2371][emoji2371]

I would imagine this argument would get them laughed out of traffic court.

 

[Shlbyntro]

Radar and lidar guns measure the distance of another object in relation the the gun itself over a set period of time by bouncing sound or light waves off of the said object at which point a simple calculation of speed is made. Those measurement however do not account for any lateral movement of the object in relation to the gun, only the distance that was closed (or opened if the object was moving away)

The gun they were using had an adjustment on it to tell the gun what angle of travel the object (boat) was being measured at so the gun could make an adjustment to its simple calculation to account for the declared angle of measurement. It is far from a "calibration" and is more of an approximated adjustment to the measured number.

 

[bluebleeder]

RDP will be there this year!

Fantastic!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Havasu blue label]

Then why are worried about it no skin in the game move on son

 

[GRADS]

Put one of these on RD's pontoon at the finish line, problem solved.

 

[rush1]

Who was next fastest and rightful king

Randy Jones in the Dial 911 Skater @ an honest 174.5 mph she's the true King & Queen of the desert!

 

[boat527]

Did everyone make 2 runs? Or can you run one hoping the gun is bad and you run 199......

Once......

 

[monkeyswrench]

Put one of these on RD's pontoon at the finish line, problem solved.

View attachment 997158

I loved it when city of Glendora got one of these...test and tune on weeknights! Mid-90's and stupid kids...

 

[28Eliminator]

Sounds like Fatal Attraction got himself a Cheetah Speedo..

 

[guest hs]

Who Cares!

 

[rivermobster]

Only on the uphill side of the curve.

What about the current??

 

[GRADS]

Is this on a jet boat? Ever


What about the current??

Speaking of which, what was the fastest jet boat at the shootout? Not craigslist or Desert Storm radar speeds but real world speeds?

 

[Socalx09]

All I could think about after reading about radars and speeds (The Office)

 

[RiverDave]

Did everyone make 2 runs? Or can you run one hoping the gun is bad and you run 199......

Once......

More than 1 run was made as stated.. 160.00

 

[Marios Metalworks]

So much to digest here.

Did everyone’s number come from the same gun? Was everyone adjusted the same way?

 

[Orange Juice]

It’s all about winning.

This thread is all about the losers.
I’m giving the boat, the fastest speed that day@199mph

one gun, there’s nothing to average.

 

[RiverDave]

It’s all about winning.

This thread is all about the losers.
I’m giving the boat, the fastest speed that day@199mph

one gun, there’s nothing to average.

Then why wasn’t the winning reported speed 199? Lol. And how did KAP’s boat that runs about a 101 register 126?

This isn’t about the losers.. it’s about reality and truth and the truth is Corey didn’t win

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

An outsiders perspective. My hat is off to @KAP for calling BS on his high/fast run. That is what sports and competition are about.

So everyone is questioning the run made by fatal attraction that in the end awarded him the overall. Totally understand I question it myself but at the end of the day it is what it is. Get the competition on the next one and every one after that and show us who the real champ is.

Moving forward...the next time this radar issue happens I think it would be best to do a gps recall on that boat. If said captain refuses then run is tossed as a scratch and doesn't count and you need 3 good clean runs to be a contender for the crown. Someone also mentioned having a captains/staffer meeting to discuss what to do. Not a bad Idea to keep things transparent.

Why is this event still using radar guns seems it would make more sense to have gps transponders of their own.

Also I'm not familiar with the rules but if it's a 3 run race seems it would be best to take the average of the three which would help alleviate the wild card runs like this.

Best of luck to the staff and good job coordinating an event like this. Between the boat show, cat fest, and desert storm I bet y'all are worn smooth by the end of the month.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Then why wasn’t the winning reported speed 199? Lol. And how did KAP’s boat that runs about a 101 register 126?

This isn’t about the losers.. it’s about reality and truth and the truth is Corey didn’t win

Question, did the driver/owner of Fatal Attraction Cory, claim to be the winner or did those who put on the even as Storm Poker Runs announce him as the winner? Seems if he was announced and people don’t believe him to be the winner the issue should’ve been brought to those who run the shootout.
I just see the whole deal being bad publicity for the whole week of the DS events with all this going about.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Then why wasn’t the winning reported speed 199? Lol. And how did KAP’s boat that runs about a 101 register 126?

This isn’t about the losers.. it’s about reality and truth and the truth is Corey didn’t win

Based on the organizers rules and decision, the reality is he won that event that day.

 

[Loo Dog]

Seems to me the bush league decision is a direct representation of a bush league event. Get your shit together like LOTO, it might be taken somewhat seriously, as well as bring more competition.

 

[Christopher Lucero]

Radar and lidar guns measure the distance of another object in relation the the gun itself over a set period of time by bouncing sound or light waves off of the said object at which point a simple calculation of speed is made. Those measurement however do not account for any lateral movement of the object in relation to the gun, only the distance that was closed (or opened if the object was moving away)

The gun they were using had an adjustment on it to tell the gun what angle of travel the object (boat) was being measured at so the gun could make an adjustment to its simple calculation to account for the declared angle of measurement. It is far from a "calibration" and is more of an approximated adjustment to the measured number.

The event would be better off using a dual or triple source GPS (mount at bow tip, and two at P/S sponsons) on board each participant. I know...it means more overhead in event management, but people seem to vest alot in these events, FWIW.

Radar has problems that need to be eliminated reliably and there is not a reliable way to achieve it without somehow controlling natural conditions (GLWT). OR standardizing the target.

There is the problem of radar depending upon some mass of metal to bounce off of. The configuration of the metal ideally would be flat and perpendicular to the radar transceiver. Distance likewise makes such cross section smaller. Small & variable targets are what - in tactical terms - we call 'stealth' (q.v, Iranian speedboats that elude radar detection in the Persian gulf)

There is also the problem of inversion layer distortion of radar over water surfaces when the air is a very different temperature from the water.

The radar gun targeting is variable.

Expect variation.

Boats are mostly made of resin...not a good reflector. Modern lightweight engines are mostly Aluminum for weight savings...not a good reflector.

If decided to stay with radar, require participants to mount a standard iron 'target' on or inside the bow for the radar to reflect off of, or one of these.

I had a Mustang GT droptop long ago. There were many times where even though exceeding speed limit sheriff w/radar did not pursue. I can only surmise that the cross section of the vehicle was not sufficient for the gun to calculate a reliable speed at the distance it was being used.

 

[Singleton]

Seems to me the bush league decision is a direct representation of a bush league event. Get your shit together like LOTO, it might be taken somewhat seriously, as well as bring more competition.

i think it is time for a change.
Street Party = Thursday
Shoot-Out = Friday (if windy gets postponed to Sunday)
Poker-run = Saturday

too many guys keep breaking stuff Friday and don’t run Saturday. Plus it is a ton of work to get from street party Thursday night to the drivers meeting for the poker run Friday without being worn out. I heard a rumor @KAP will be on the rules committee for the shootout, that should solve the issue they had this year.

In the end we have a driver that says he ran 178 on GPS (yet I have seen zero evidence) on a run where the speed gun was off. I would be pissed as well if that was my best run, but ethics are ethics and I would of discarded that run and ran again and hoped I got a similar speed. IMO, the way the speed was agreed to is pure BS. If this guy did yell and scream at the organizers, they should of DQ’d all his runs for being an ass!

 

[crzy2bealive]

Wonder if I should say something on their Instagram page to start shit lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BMS_Scott]

Why does it sound so far fetched that Cory ran 174mph to claim the win? He ran 162mph just last year at the LOTTO ... a 16 MPH difference....

Drive enhancements ( built by west coast drives ) and proper prop choice with motors pushing upwards up 1,700 HP a piece by Todd’s performance in a SUPER light lay up of a boat ( all carbon fiber ) maybe 7,500 pounds...

Sounds possible no ?

Obviously Greg did it as a beast of a man back in the day with twin 1,800 hp motors so it sounds tangible

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

i think it is time for a change.
Street Party = Thursday
Shoot-Out = Friday (if windy gets postponed to Sunday)
Poker-run = Saturday

too many guys keep breaking stuff Friday and don’t run Saturday. Plus it is a ton of work to get from street party Thursday night to the drivers meeting for the poker run Friday without being worn out. I heard a rumor @KAP will be on the rules committee for the shootout, that should solve the issue they had this year.

In the end we have a driver that says he ran 178 on GPS (yet I have seen zero evidence) on a run where the speed gun was off. I would be pissed as well if that was my best run, but ethics are ethics and I would of discarded that run and ran again and hoped I got a similar speed. IMO, the way the speed was agreed to is pure BS. If this guy did yell and scream at the organizers, they should of DQ’d all his runs for being an ass!

Poker run on Sat means more boat traffic (As if that was even possible).

If your stuff is gonna break, it’s gonna break, either due to a mechanical failure or lack of mechanical empathy.

I would think the poker run is the more valuable event? And since it is not a race anyway (wink wink) you should not be running your stuff at 10/10ths the entire poker run like you would for the shootout. Save your stuff for the shootout... part of the fun and part of the challenge.

 

[Bugginout]

I loved it when city of Glendora got one of these...test and tune on weeknights! Mid-90's and stupid kids...

I was a stupid kid in the mid 90's in monrovia. We used to race in front of Duarte high school. My best friend back then was from Glendora. You ever make it to any of the street races back then?

 

[monkeyswrench]

Why does it sound so far fetched that Cory ran 174mph to claim the win? He ran 162mph just last year at the LOTTO ... a 16 MPH difference....

Drive enhancements ( built by west coast drives ) and proper prop choice with motors pushing upwards up 1,700 HP a piece by Todd’s performance in a SUPER light lay up of a boat ( all carbon fiber ) maybe 7,500 pounds...

Sounds possible no ?

Obviously Greg did it as a beast of a man back in the day with twin 1,800 hp motors so it sounds tangible

I think the biggest issue is the "magic bullet theory". The first pass with questionable radar was unable to be backed up on subsequent passes.
Regardless, all the top boats can turn numbers near 3x faster than my stuff...impressive stuff!

 

[monkeyswrench]

I was a stupid kid in the mid 90's in monrovia. We used to race in front of Duarte high school. My best friend back then was from Glendora. You ever make it to any of the street races back then?

Of course not...street racing is wrong and un-lawful
What car(s) your buddy have?

 

[Bugginout]

Of course not...street racing is wrong and un-lawful
What car(s) your buddy have?

He had a white 77 ranchero with a 429 and I ran a 67 chevy short bed with a 327 and a 4 speed. I worked at verbecks machine shop in Pasadena and our other buddy ran a 70 nova with a 355 4 speed and worked at Johnson machine when it was behind the napa auto on Huntington in monrovia/Duarte. Cars were a dime a dozen back then. I also had a primer 72 chevelle.

 

[Tom Slick]

The back and forth in this thread is comical. Bottom-line, the "Fatal Attraction" run clocked at 199 MPH should have immediately been thrown out. The 199 MPH speed in a 3/4 mile run is the evidence that something was wrong with the radar timing system, as it is literally impossible for that boat to run that fast on that race course in that distance. Additionally other driver(s) @KAP came forward right away and stated that his radar recorded speed was way off. As stated earlier in this thread, in NHRA, IHBA, SCTA or any other speed contest sanctioned events a timed speed that is completely out of wack would be scrutinized and inevitably the run would be thrown out. If John Force ran a 350 MPH run in his Funny Car when the NHRA Funny Car record for the past two years has held at 339 MPH, it would be quite obvious that there was a malfunction with the timing equipment and the run would be immediately thrown out. The driver of the "Fatal Attraction" boat should have taken the same stance as @KAP and had his own run thrown out knowing that a 199 MPH was fictional. To negotiate a speed at that point is ridiculous.

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

Did no one get the memo about the 25mph handicap?

 

[monkeyswrench]

He had a white 77 ranchero with a 429 and I ran a 67 chevy short bed with a 327 and a 4 speed. I worked at verbecks machine shop in Pasadena and our other buddy ran a 70 nova with a 355 4 speed and worked at Johnson machine when it was behind the napa auto on Huntington in monrovia/Duarte. Cars were a dime a dozen back then. I also had a primer 72 chevelle.

I do remember the kid at JMS! Kind of like the kid with the light yellow mustang from Blairs...remeber cars and how they sounded. I'll be damned if I remember what the driver looked like or their real names

 

[Bugginout]

He had a white 77 ranchero with a 429 and I ran a 67 chevy short bed with a 327 and a 4 speed. I worked at verbecks machine shop in Pasadena and our other buddy ran a 70 nova with a 355 4 speed and worked at Johnson machine when it was behind the napa auto on Huntington in monrovia/Duarte. Cars were a dime a dozen back then. I also had a primer 72 chevelle.

Scott Hassler was the guy to beat in his 65 Malibu in SGV back then. Shoemaker had a pretty stout white mustang back then. We were poor kid's working and wrenching trying to keep up with the kids with daddy's money. Sorry to hi Jack the thread.

 

[CLdrinker]

If a boat supposedly has 1650HP per side beats a boat that supposedly has over 2000HP per side

The lower HP must have one hell of an efficient hull to overcome a 600HP disadvantage.

or some other BS...

 

[Bugginout]

I do remember the kid at JMS! Kind of like the kid with the light yellow mustang from Blairs...remeber cars and how they sounded. I'll be damned if I remember what the driver looked like or their real names

The kid from JMS was my brother from another mother Rob. We are still friends to this day.

 

[ChrisV]

Every boat should have this gps imo.

Dragy Motorsports

Monitor your 0-60mph, 60-130mph, 100-200kmh, 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile performance, and more! Dragy uses high speed GPS satellites to accurately measure your vehicles performance within 1/100th of a second.

dragymotorsports.com

 

[coolchange]

What about the current??

Treadmill effect

 

[t&y]

Treadmill effect

So you are saying the boats will take off like an air plane and fly across the finish line?

 

[coolchange]

So you are saying the boats will take off like an air plane and fly across the finish line?

Yes, rare event but no hydro parasitic drag can add 10 / 15 percent to your speed.

 

[boblins]

My built in speed inicator is not good at telling me actual speeds but is pretty good at relative comparisons, and based upon what we saw, Fatal Attraction's first run was noticeably quicker visually than any following (even engine sound was different). But, that still does not mean that an estimated speed should be used to award the King of the Desert plaque. Unfortunate that the first run was not timed accurately, and feel for the owner/driver, yet unless they can somehow substantiate the speed given to them via some other means such as the data logging the run should have been completely thrown out.

 

[76sanger]

I have know clue of what all these boats have for recording speeds. Its sounds like to me they all have sinead or something similar. If that is the case, why in the hell are we using radar guns? Shouldn't it be like this, the boat makes a pass and then should come straight in and whoever is running this event goes and looks at the simrad and records the speed? No more bs, just straight up speed results from gps.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The back and forth in this thread is comical. Bottom-line, the "Fatal Attraction" run clocked at 199 MPH should have immediately been thrown out. The 199 MPH speed in a 3/4 mile run is the evidence that something was wrong with the radar timing system, as it is literally impossible for that boat to run that fast on that race course in that distance. Additionally other driver(s) @KAP came forward right away and stated that his radar recorded speed was way off. As stated earlier in this thread, in NHRA, IHBA, SCTA or any other speed contest sanctioned events a timed speed that is completely out of wack would be scrutinized and inevitably the run would be thrown out. If John Force ran a 350 MPH run in his Funny Car when the NHRA Funny Car record for the past two years has held at 339 MPH, it would be quite obvious that there was a malfunction with the timing equipment and the run would be immediately thrown out. The driver of the "Fatal Attraction" boat should have taken the same stance as @KAP and had his own run thrown out knowing that a 199 MPH was fictional. To negotiate a speed at that point is ridiculous.

The difference is this is not a sanctioned speed event through a sanctioning body. I 100% agree with you though, that is what SHOULD have happened.

 

[28Eliminator]

Bragging rights is one thing, Credibility is whats at stake here, for both the Fatal Attraction and the event organizer.

 

[riverroyal]

I have a slow pontoon, which means I have no need to overcompensate. Thats what I learned from this thread

 

[Ziggy]

This controversy will ultimately hurt the event organizers reputation more than the ego of the racers. The racers can move on to the next event, duke it out all over again and prove each other wrong.