WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

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WhatExit?

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So does everyone else...

Billings, Mont., is the new No. 1 on The Wall Street Journal/Realtor.com Emerging Housing Markets Index, boosted by its affordability and appeal to remote workers.

The index reflects how the housing boom has ignited home buying activity in smaller to midsize cities around the U.S. The top 20 cities in the ranking have an average population size of just over 300,000.

In the latest index rankings published on Tuesday, smaller cities dominate. The No. 2 metro area is Coeur d’Alene, the lakeside Idaho city that held the top position when the index premiered in April. Fort Wayne, Ind., Rapid City, S.D., and Raleigh, N.C., round out the top 5.

The index identifies the top metro areas for home buyers seeking an appreciating housing market and appealing lifestyle amenities. This quarter’s version added the new criteria of real-estate taxes, which caused some areas in the Northeast, Midwest and Texas with higher property taxes to fall in the rankings.

The strengthening U.S. economy also played a role, rewarding cities where employment and wages grew the most. Rapid City and Raleigh each jumped by about 100 spots from the previous quarter.

 

81Sprint

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That's my plan, by next summer to relocate out of Vegas. House is going on the market in the next couple weeks then gonna spend the school year figuring out where we want to go. Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, and Utah are top of the list.
 

COCA COLA COWBOY

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When the economy gets very good people start to relocate to rural areas. COVID really pushed people outward as they could work from home. Historically, when the economy shifts people will start moving back to Metro areas as jobs typically stay stronger around larger cities. I am seeing many large companies requiring their workers to return to the office. The price of gas has increased and in the last 5 years a lot of people gave up their crappy fuel efficient car for SUV’s. I foresee home prices in outlying areas pulling back a bit as a result of these changes.
 

HotRod82

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I went through Billings 4 years ago on a Moho trip with the wife. Totally run down tweaker central. I was shocked, we had just come from Helena which was very nice. I actually got into a shouting match with a tweaker chick at the self serve car wash at 6 o clock in the morning, she was upset my coach was taking up too much room.........
Missoula is nice, but has become LA East since Covid hit. Full of LA douchebags.
 

paradise

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When the economy gets very good people start to relocate to rural areas. COVID really pushed people outward as they could work from home. Historically, when the economy shifts people will start moving back to Metro areas as jobs typically stay stronger around larger cities. I am seeing many large companies requiring their workers to return to the office. The price of gas has increased and in the last 5 years a lot of people gave up their crappy fuel efficient car for SUV’s. I foresee home prices in outlying areas pulling back a bit as a result of these changes.
I agree, I think a lot of people honestly thought they would never have to go back to the office and they would get to work remote 'forever'. In a stereotypical family with a husband in construction and a corporate job wife there was no reason for them to not move to Idaho or Montana. After all, the wife would rather work next to a stream if she can work remote and the husband can build the new houses for all the people moving into the area.

As the big companies call people back to the office (or give them the option of an x% pay cut to work remote) the demand for housing will diminish. Now not only is the wife making less (if they stay) but the demand for the husband's job is lower too.

I can easily see that snowballing and really depressing the prices in the outlying areas :/
 

pwerwagn

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I spent some time in Montana recently, and wasn't overly impressed. My wifes cousins live on flathead lake, and that was gorgeous, but the people turned me off. They even said the people around there have changed in the past year.

The biggest turn off to me there was Bozeman. In fact, it was the one place on our ~30 day trip that we chose not to stay after we got there. I have never met more A-hole people in one place in my life. Must be all the Californians moving there?

I would definitely live summers at flathead lake though! That place was beautiful, and on the 4th of July we only saw ~10 other boats the whole day of boating.
 

mesquito_creek

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Could somebody tell me how this "working from home" works. How do houses get built, cars get fixed, people's bodies get fixed and I know for a fact I couldn't fix a boat from home?????????????????????
The engineer designs it from home, the drafter draws it from home, the estimator estimates from home, the PM submits permits from home, the owner writes the checks from home. The forman does his paperwork and SIT reports from home.... and then the illegal labor doing piecework go into the field and build the home.
 

traquer

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The biggest turn off to me there was Bozeman. In fact, it was the one place on our ~30 day trip that we chose not to stay after we got there. I have never met more A-hole people in one place in my life. Must be all the Californians moving there?
That sucks. I had a friend live there for a few years recently, I will ask her. I think it's just the last few years, I'd be pissed too if my way of live and city changed so much so fast. At least in havasu everyone that moves there is into boating so that unites people.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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When the economy gets very good people start to relocate to rural areas. COVID really pushed people outward as they could work from home. Historically, when the economy shifts people will start moving back to Metro areas as jobs typically stay stronger around larger cities. I am seeing many large companies requiring their workers to return to the office. The price of gas has increased and in the last 5 years a lot of people gave up their crappy fuel efficient car for SUV’s. I foresee home prices in outlying areas pulling back a bit as a result of these changes.
Considering St. George Utah and this is my only hang up presently. I'm currently work from home, and will never need to go to an office, but what about my next job?

I don't want to give away my equity in So Cal to buy at the peak in St. George, and have to wait 5-6 years+ to get the equity back and if I have to change to a job that forces a move in the meantime I would not be in an optimal situation.

Other option is to keep CA house and rent it, but that brings on other risk.
 

AZmike

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I was up in Montana 2 weekends ago. Flew into Missoula arrived around 10:00 pm and went straight to my hotel. Driving to the hotel I saw a ton of homeless people wandering around. I didn't spend much time in town but it certainly wasn't what I expected to see in Montana. The destination I visited which is about an hour from Missoula was beautiful and I fell in love with it. Ultimately signed papers to buy a lot. I'm trying to nail down my retirement plan now long before I retire. I'm going to be one of those asshole snowbirds that goes north in the summer and south in the winter 😂
 

COCA COLA COWBOY

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Considering St. George Utah and this is my only hang up presently. I'm currently work from home, and will never need to go to an office, but what about my next job?

I don't want to give away my equity in So Cal to buy at the peak in St. George, and have to wait 5-6 years+ to get the equity back and if I have to change to a job that forces a move in the meantime I would not be in an optimal situation.

Other option is to keep CA house and rent it, but that brings on other risk.
I'd keep the SoCal home. I have told a quite a few close clients to rent in the other states they move to, then sell after 2-3 years if they still feel confident in the move. You don't have to pay capital gains as long as you have lived in the home as your primary residence for 2 of the last 5 years.

Also, you really should never sell homes unless you truly have to. You should keep them as rentals for your retirement portfolio.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I'd keep the SoCal home. I have told a quite a few close clients to rent in the other states they move to, then sell after 2-3 years if they still feel confident in the move. You don't have to pay capital gains as long as you have lived in the home as your primary residence for 2 of the last 5 years.

Also, you really should never sell homes unless you truly have to. You should keep them as rentals for your retirement portfolio.
Normally I'd agree 100% but I'm nervous about being a landlord in CA. That said, keeping the house here is the safest plan, and the So Cal rent proceeds would offset the higher mortgage cost there.
 

Ace in the Hole

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I spent some time in Montana recently, and wasn't overly impressed. My wifes cousins live on flathead lake, and that was gorgeous, but the people turned me off. They even said the people around there have changed in the past year.

The biggest turn off to me there was Bozeman. In fact, it was the one place on our ~30 day trip that we chose not to stay after we got there. I have never met more A-hole people in one place in my life. Must be all the Californians moving there?

I would definitely live summers at flathead lake though! That place was beautiful, and on the 4th of July we only saw ~10 other boats the whole day of boating.
100% accurate...we stayed one night and bailed.... Full of leftist pride bullshit, douchey/rude/asshole people, and honestly way overpriced. I really really wanted to punch a guy at the table next to us at MAP brewery who was being mouthy (aka drunk LA Douchebag). He honestly deserved to get his teeth knocked out, and if would have been "chicken nugget night at the county jail" I would have been more inclined to do it. Only place ive ever seen a 250$+ night super 8. My friends up in Dillon won't even go there anymore.

I like Missoula but its had a massive influx of west coast money the last 2-3 years...and its changed. Flathead is on our summer road trip list for next year.
 

185EZ

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We moved to a small town from northern illinois 20 years ago.
It's called Lake Havasu. :)
There was 25k people and 95 was only 2 lanes and you waved at everyone on the road.
I didn't have a truck yet and launched our 25' boat with our 35' rv at Windsor and even site 6 and nobody stared at or yelled at me.
Speed alley and the sandbar was always open
Boobies in the channel.:p
 

hallett21

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Normally I'd agree 100% but I'm nervous about being a landlord in CA. That said, keeping the house here is the safest plan, and the So Cal rent proceeds would offset the higher mortgage cost there.
Why? Just make them pay the 12 months up front lol


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ChiliPepperGarage

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I moved to a small town four years ago. It's not really even a town as there is no main street or downtown. Heck, we don't even have a traffic light. Primarily ag and retirees. There is a school for 1 through 12th grades but this years graduating class was only 18 kids. Very conservative area (lots of Trump flags and banners) with good old fashioned values.

This is not unusual. There are many areas in rural NV like mine and many in other states as well. The problem with most of the posts here is you are looking at cities. You have to get 30 miles or more out of the cities to find real rural America. Most of America is red. It's just the cities that skew the numbers. And when I say "city" I mean anything over about 10K people. I know to most people 10K is a small town but that is why you are finding the same issues you experience in bigger cities. Citiots!
 

pwerwagn

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I was up in Montana 2 weekends ago. Flew into Missoula arrived around 10:00 pm and went straight to my hotel. Driving to the hotel I saw a ton of homeless people wandering around. I didn't spend much time in town but it certainly wasn't what I expected to see in Montana. The destination I visited which is about an hour from Missoula was beautiful and I fell in love with it. Ultimately signed papers to buy a lot. I'm trying to nail down my retirement plan now long before I retire. I'm going to be one of those asshole snowbirds that goes north in the summer and south in the winter 😂
I assume you went an hour north? ;-)

It is beautiful up there. My wifes cousins have a house on the east side of flathead off 35, on the water. It was amazing. Its weird to see my own feet while im swimming in a lake.
 

STV_Keith

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In 1995 I moved from FL to Belgrade/Bozeman, MT for work. I spent 2.5 years there and that was enough to let me make the informed decision that I don't want to live anywhere where it snows consistently. My company has an office in Belgrade and everyone that lives up there has told me that prices and people have changed a LOT in the last 10 years. Most cannot afford to move as they can't afford a replacement house. West Coast money and people are wrecking the market for anyone with a day job. It no longer appeals to me, or looks financially viable, not that I was looking to go back anyway. I left in 1997 and haven't been back since. I do have a work trip scheduled for October though...first time to return in 24 years.

Could somebody tell me how this "working from home" works. How do houses get built, cars get fixed, people's bodies get fixed and I know for a fact I couldn't fix a boat from home?????????????????????
I'm working from home right now. My team worked from home from March last year until April this year. A new round of Covid hit a few of my guys, so I sent everyone home again as a precaution. We handle telephone and email technical support for our company, so no need to actually be in the office for most of my staff. I do have 2 guys in the office handling returns. Most of the production people that are packing the shipments, building kits up, the engineers designing stuff, etc, are working in the offices.
 

COCA COLA COWBOY

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Normally I'd agree 100% but I'm nervous about being a landlord in CA. That said, keeping the house here is the safest plan, and the So Cal rent proceeds would offset the higher mortgage cost there.
Noted, I always recommend to my clients that they rent to military if at all possible. You are guaranteed your rent and they usually maintain the home better than any other tenant.
 

C-Ya

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If ever you want to go back in time to a community of the strange……. Move to Colorado City, Arizona. I am guessing the property values are quite reasonable too! (A little research will show why I made my comments…… it’s a funny reason)
 

just_floatin

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Considering St. George Utah and this is my only hang up presently. I'm currently work from home, and will never need to go to an office, but what about my next job?

I don't want to give away my equity in So Cal to buy at the peak in St. George, and have to wait 5-6 years+ to get the equity back and if I have to change to a job that forces a move in the meantime I would not be in an optimal situation.

Other option is to keep CA house and rent it, but that brings on other risk.
I like St. George Utah too. People are nice, tons of trails to off-road, lakes & reservoirs are clear, good deer hunting and yet that small town feel to the area. You can even drive your UTV’s on the roadways like in AZ too.

We looked at some RV homes near Sand Hallow state park that were pushing 1M to build in today’s market with small backyards. The good is the homes were but a stone throw away from the reservoir and dunes. The bad is my type of work (IT) would have to be 100% remote with no travel to live in St. George. Not much is available in the area with the same pay scale if I were displaced. Now if I was fully retired, I could see myself living in this area 6 months of the year including hunting season.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I like St. George Utah too. People are nice, tons of trails to off-road, lakes & reservoirs are clear, good deer hunting and yet that small town feel to the area. You can even drive your UTV’s on the roadways like in AZ too.

We looked at some RV homes near Sand Hallow state park that were pushing 1M to build in today’s market with small backyards. The good is the homes were but a stone throw away from the reservoir and dunes. The bad is my type of work (IT) would have to be 100% remote with no travel to live in St. George. Not much is available in the area with the same pay scale if I were displaced. Now if I was fully retired, I could see myself living in this area 6 months of the year including hunting season.
Pretty much my situation. I’m in IT on the vendor side and have clients in Vegas, So Cal and Nor Cal, mainly working from home, traveling once or twice a month. Travel is just an extra hop to go from the local airport to Phoenix, or drive to Vegas.

I don’t need a huge lot, or a huge house, but a new custom house in Washington Fields is gonna be $800k ish for a 2700 sqft ish house with an RV garage, pool and RV parking. And I’d need a SXS to have there to drive around, and a couple jet skis :)

Something like this:
175304F3-3F78-470F-8119-381D6AF39116.jpeg
 

hallett21

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Pretty much my situation. I’m in IT on the vendor side and have clients in Vegas, So Cal and Nor Cal, mainly working from home, traveling once or twice a month. Travel is just an extra hop to go from the local airport to Phoenix, or drive to Vegas.

I don’t need a huge lot, or a huge house, but a new custom house in Washington Fields is gonna be $800k ish for a 2700 sqft ish house with an RV garage, pool and RV parking. And I’d need a SXS to have there to drive around, and a couple jet skis :)

Something like this:
View attachment 1028291
Damn. That’s tempting.


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Slick

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If ever you want to go back in time to a community of the strange……. Move to Colorado City, Arizona. I am guessing the property values are quite reasonable too! (A little research will show why I made my comments…… it’s a funny reason)
BYOB. Bring Your Own Brides😇
 

hallett21

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I gotta come up with the teledoc version of electrical contractor.

Or work on trophy husband status


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DRYHEAT

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Pretty much my situation. I’m in IT on the vendor side and have clients in Vegas, So Cal and Nor Cal, mainly working from home, traveling once or twice a month. Travel is just an extra hop to go from the local airport to Phoenix, or drive to Vegas.

I don’t need a huge lot, or a huge house, but a new custom house in Washington Fields is gonna be $800k ish for a 2700 sqft ish house with an RV garage, pool and RV parking. And I’d need a SXS to have there to drive around, and a couple jet skis :)

Something like this:
View attachment 1028291
You don’t need much do you.😂
 

TITTIES AND BEER

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Pretty much my situation. I’m in IT on the vendor side and have clients in Vegas, So Cal and Nor Cal, mainly working from home, traveling once or twice a month. Travel is just an extra hop to go from the local airport to Phoenix, or drive to Vegas.

I don’t need a huge lot, or a huge house, but a new custom house in Washington Fields is gonna be $800k ish for a 2700 sqft ish house with an RV garage, pool and RV parking. And I’d need a SXS to have there to drive around, and a couple jet skis :)

Something like this:
View attachment 1028291
To. Any caries moving in 😉
 

HB2Havasu

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Considering St. George Utah and this is my only hang up presently. I'm currently work from home, and will never need to go to an office, but what about my next job?

I don't want to give away my equity in So Cal to buy at the peak in St. George, and have to wait 5-6 years+ to get the equity back and if I have to change to a job that forces a move in the meantime I would not be in an optimal situation.

Other option is to keep CA house and rent it, but that brings on other risk.
Chances are what you could rent your Calif home for would pay a big chunk of a Utah house. St. George area will continue to grow as long as people are escaping Blue States. Like you, my biggest deterrent I have in selling my Calif house is if I need to come back for work reasons I would be F-ed by giving away my Prop 13 Tax Rate. I’ve owned this house for 25 years and the taxes are less than my daily Starbucks, lol.
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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Chances are what you could rent your Calif home for would pay a big chunk of a Utah house. St. George are will continue to grow as long as people are escaping Blue States. Like you, my biggest deterrent I have in selling my Calif house is if I need to come back for work reasons I would be F-ed by giving away my Prop 13 Tax Rate. I’ve owned this house for 25 years and the taxes are less than my daily Starbucks, lol.
Yea you are right. Cashflow wise, it is about the same either way. I’ve got a great mortgage rate, and locked in low property taxes... But it may be the right move.

Other safer option is to just buy something smaller/cheaper out there and make sure it is gonna work instead of diving right in.
 

Taboma

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I gotta come up with the teledoc version of electrical contractor.

Or work on trophy husband status


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Well I'll tell ya one thing sonny, being an electrical consultant on RDP won't get ya more than some beer IOU's 🥴
And that's assuming somebody doesn't put out a hit on your aging ass 😳
;) 😂
 

Cdog

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A recession & real estate correction will have so many of these “it’s my money & I want it now” folks trying to sell in the sticks to get back to the big cities before they’re flat broke.

Only there won’t be any real jobs where they’re at, working from home won’t be an option & too many other people are trying to do the same thing.

Then winter hits.

I see some good deals on the horizon.
 

Taboma

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Bought our ranch located above a small town of maybe population 20 about 17 years ago, with younger eyes glued to our future "Golden Years" of retirement.
Made improvements, set all the pieces in place. We were prepared not only for our future, but even pretty much had our " If shit happens" asses covered.
Had the energy of school kids, go, go, go, pull those tree stumps, move those boulders, future dreams were beckoning.

Well, I'll be damned, but in those following 17 years, despite being distracted with living, our life clocks not only continued to count down, they accelerated and we fucking got older. 😖

Do you know how many medical specialists live close to a town of maybe 20 ???
Do you know if you suffer an emergency, how long an ambulance takes to drive 30 miles, then another several more on rough dirt roads and now must reverse the same journey ?
Long enough where you'll be seriously dead, with maybe a chance if they have a helo on standby to dispatch, assuming they can find a place to land and somebody is able to haul you to that LZ.

My ranch neighbor and close friend, the same energetic mountain man, who'd done all my grading and who'd lived in these beautiful surroundings all his life, as had his family before him and before them, said it best.
This after he'd been diagnosed and undergone cancer treatments for over a two year period in Phoenix, which was 250 some miles away.
" Buddy, this ain't no country for old men "
I replied, " Fred, you mean ole asshole, now you tell me " 😖

We have no regrets, we've enjoyed our choice and have shared amazing times on this property, but it's unlikely the expectations of our youthful dreams will be realized. 😢

Life has a way of teaching realities as we travel along our individual paths towards a common future. Looking back we can now think we should have seen that reality coming.
On the other hand, what fun would that be ?? 😁
 

AZmike

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I assume you went an hour north? ;-)

It is beautiful up there. My wifes cousins have a house on the east side of flathead off 35, on the water. It was amazing. Its weird to see my own feet while im swimming in a lake.
Actually an hour northwest relatively close to I-90. I haven't been over to the flathead area. I know its beautiful but the real estate market in that area is crazy just like everywhere else. Flathead is about an hour and forty five minutes from where I'll be hiding out...
 

74 spectra20 v-drive

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My Daughter and her Husband just moved to Billings mid May, paying less in a mortgage than they were for a 2 bedroom apt in Long Beach. They bought an acre, with a 4 bedroom home 3 car garage for UNDER $350. There were some gorgeous homes in some surrounding areas and an air port very close...
 

530RL

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My father was born and raised in Moscow Idaho. So we have spent a lot of time around that area hunting and fishing over multiple decades.

I'd rather suffer through an Arizona summer than an Idaho/Montana/Wyoming winter.
 

mesquito_creek

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Vib

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We moved to a small town from northern illinois 20 years ago.
It's called Lake Havasu. :)
There was 25k people and 95 was only 2 lanes and you waved at everyone on the road.
I didn't have a truck yet and launched our 25' boat with our 35' rv at Windsor and even site 6 and nobody stared at or yelled at me.
Speed alley and the sandbar was always open
Boobies in the channel.:p
I grew up in grayslake IL, what town did you move from?
 

angiebaby

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A recession & real estate correction will have so many of these “it’s my money & I want it now” folks trying to sell in the sticks to get back to the big cities before they’re flat broke.

Only there won’t be any real jobs where they’re at, working from home won’t be an option & too many other people are trying to do the same thing.

Then winter hits.

I see some good deals on the horizon.
This is what we're banking on. That and a really cold winter in the Northern Rockies.

My SIL in Polson, MT (bottom of Flathead Lake) said he had clients that moved to Montana from Florida and said they were moving back because the winter was too terrible last season. We are cracking up because those of us in the NW know that it was a pretty mild winter with not much snow. Buh-bye!!

That being said, when I saw this article yesterday, I had to laugh. Other than Butte, Billings is about the armpit of Montana. Actually, I think I'd rather live in Butte. Less wind. Billings is an old railroad town. Now it's a trucking hub with big refineries around it. Not much to look at. There is not a whole lot of places to recreate. The Yellowstone runs through it, which is nice for fishing and rafting. Red Lodge is an hour away for skiing. Yellowstone NP is about 3 hours away. There isn't any hiking or decent lakes around. Feel free to move there, people!

Missoula is full of hippies and homeless. The closer you are to the university, the worse it gets. However, I didn't see as many homeless as usual when I was there last week. Tons of hippies though.
 
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