Dive boat fire

[rrrr]

That was the Captain in "Mr. Roberts".

No, it was Phillip Queeg, CPT USN, of the USS Caine.

 

[stephenkatsea]

NTSB docket indicates the captain said 'blocked', not 'locked'.

I recall, early on, some of the news media were using the term "locked". Since I knew the arrangement was an open bunk room/berthing space I knew that was impossible. There were NOT even any doors which could have been locked. That statement was ridiculous from the very start. The news media also reported, the "cowardly crew immediately left the scene in their own life raft". There could be potential legal recourse against the press and those early damaging, derogatory, false statements. Even Heraldo Rivera jumped on that band wagon. So typical of much of today's news media.

My thoughts remain with those who perished and also those who survived.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I finally read through most of the docket. And I can truly say it is haunting.

Reading NTSB reports is somewhat a habit. I started reading the Aviation accident investigations years ago. But this is the first one where it makes me a bit ill thinking about. I mean I'm gittery and a bit on edge. Something that usually doesn't happen when reading these documents.

The second galleyhand was awoken by what he thought was a deck chair being moved and then a door closing(page 11 of the factual report). Most likely that was one of the batteries igniting and either knocking itself or other items off the table. But that woke someone else up because he hears someone scream a few minutes later. That is what got him out of his bunk and he saw the fire. The only people to survive were bunked above the main deck, and they were all awakened by the second galleyhand, so the person that screamed was from the below deck bunks. My guess is the second deckhand that was bunked with the passengers.

The second deckhand goes back down to awaken the passengers and this must have taken some amount of time because some of the passengers had clothes on, one was wearing a jacket and one even had ahold of their phone. They didn't appear to try the rear escape hatch because many of the passengers were found at the base of the stairs.

I can't imagine how haunted the surviving crew is.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

No, it was Phillip Queeg, CPT USN, of the USS Caine.

There are bearings at play in Mr. Roberts as well. I thought it was Jack Lemmon's character that wanted to place them in the Captains overhead where they would roll around.

 

[rrrr]

There are bearings at play in Mr. Roberts as well. I thought it was Jack Lemmon's character that wanted to place them in the Captains overhead where they would roll around.

I remembered something about that, but knew it was Queeg who plunged his hand into his pocket and pulled out the steel balls whenever things got dicey for him.

 

[rrrr]

I finally read through most of the docket. And I can truly say it is haunting.

Reading NTSB reports is somewhat a habit. I started reading the Aviation accident investigations years ago. But this is the first one where it makes me a bit ill thinking about. I mean I'm gittery and a bit on edge. Something that usually doesn't happen when reading these documents.

I can't imagine how haunted the surviving crew is.

Same for me. I've been reading aviation dockets for years, this one is as sobering as any airliner crash.

One of the crewmen was the boyfriend of the female crew member that died in the bunk area. That had to be a horrifying realization for him when the main deck became fully involved.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Here's the transcript, as published by USA Today, of the mayday call from the Conception to the CG. This CG dispatcher made a number of questions/comments which were totally in error. But, the news media took those unsubstantiated comments and ran with them. 1) Persons locked on board 2) No Escape Hatch 3) No Fire Fighting Equipment. This dispatcher then asks the Capt, "if he can get back on board and unlock the doors?". The Capt was on board, he hadn't abandoned his vessel. He was standing on the bridge with flames and smoke all around him and speaking to this CG dispatcher. So much of the totally false news reporting, to soon follow, came from this conversation and the many less than correct interpretations by this dispatcher.

Later, the news media reported, the Conception crew escaped the scene of the fire in a lifeboat, leaving the passengers locked in on the boat to perish. The Conception had no lifeboats, per the COI there were non required, the crew used a small inflatable Zodiac type boat, to search the water for victims and go to the "Grape Escape" the only vessel in their area to seek further assistance. That Zodiac had been placed in the water and tied along side the Conception long before the fire occurred.

 

[Duramax]

That happened on a trip in 2018, and was mentioned in interviews of two crewmen. It was unrelated to the September 2019 fire.

I talk shit to people who don't pay attention when they read......ugh, my apologies. Thank you for the correction.

 

[WhatExit?]

Owners of California dive boat faulted for fire that killed 34
The NTSB said the Conception's captain failed to post a roving night watchman, which allowed the deadly fire to quickly spread.

Oct. 20, 2020, 10:24 PM MST
By The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES — One of the deadliest accidents in recent U.S. maritime history was the fault of owners of a Southern California dive boat whose lack of oversight resulted in a fire that swept through the vessel and killed 34 people in their bunks below deck, federal safety officials ruled Tuesday.

The National Transportation Safety Board said the Conception's captain failed to post a roving night watchman aboard the vessel, which allowed the fire to quickly spread and trap the 33 passengers and one crew member. The NTSB also faulted the Coast Guard for not enforcing that requirement and recommended it develop a program to ensure boats with overnight passengers actually have the watchman.

Last year's tragedy during a Labor Day weekend scuba diving excursion near Santa Cruz Island off Santa Barbara prompted criminal and safety investigations. Court documents say charges against the captain, Jerry Boylan, are imminent.

In a chilling revelation, investigators told the NTSB that because some of the recovered bodies were wearing shoes, they believe the victims were awake and trying to escape before being overcome with smoke. Both exits from the bunkroom were blocked by flames and coroner reports list smoke inhalation as the cause of death for all.
Board member Jennifer Homendy, who traveled to Santa Barbara in 2019 and toured a sister ship of the Conception, blasted Boylan and the owners, Truth Aquatics, during a virtual hearing on the investigation findings.

"I hate the term accident in this case because, in my opinion, it is not an accident if you fail to operate your company safely," Homendy said.

People embrace at Santa Barbara Harbor at a makeshift memorial for victims of the Conception boat fire on Sept.3, 2019 in Santa Barbara, Calif. Mario Tama / Getty Images

Before the disaster, Boylan and Truth Aquatics enjoyed a good reputation with customers and the Santa Barbara boating community. Coast Guard records show the Conception had passed its two most recent safety inspections.

But NTSB investigators condemned the company and captain for a litany of issues including failing to train the crew on emergency procedures.
"Clean up your act," NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt said, referring to Truth Aquatics.

Attorneys for Boylan and Truth Aquatics did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Investigators said because the boat burned and sank, they couldn’t determine what caused the fire. But they found it began toward the back of the main deck salon, where divers had plugged in phones, flashlights and other items with combustible lithium ion batteries.

"Some people may walk away and say, ‘Well, I wish I knew what the ignition source was,'" Homendy said. "But the key here is that the focus should be on conditions were present that allowed the fire to go undetected and to grow to a point where it prevented the evacuation."

Jeffrey Goodman, a lawyer representing family members of nine victims, said the board’s conclusions confirmed that the disaster was “predictable and preventable.”
"Truth Aquatics routinely violated federal law by failing to have a roving night watch," Goodman said in a statement.

Homendy and the other board members also sharply criticized the Coast Guard, saying insufficient rules — such as a lack of a requirement for interconnected smoke detectors in all accommodation spaces and poor emergency escape arrangements — need to be rectified.

Coast Guard records also show that since 1991, no owner, operator or charterer has been issued a citation or fine for failure to post a roving patrol, which the NTSB said means there isn't an effective system for checking the requirement and urged one be implemented.

"We cannot let this disaster, this tragedy, go to waste," Sumwalt said.

The NTSB does not have enforcement powers and must submit its suggestions for safety enhancements to bodies like the Federal Aviation Administration or the Coast Guard, which have repeatedly rejected some of the board’s recommendations after other disasters.

"The Coast Guard will carefully consider the National Transportation Safety Board’s recommendations through a deliberate process, which will include review by all subject matter experts and senior leaders responsible for implementing the potential regulatory changes," Lt. Cmdr. Scott McBride said in a statement.

After the Conception fire, the Coast Guard issued a bulletin recommending a limit on the unsupervised use of lithium ion batteries and extensive use of power strips and extension cords.


John Hillsman, an attorney for relatives of five victims, said his clients are anxious to see changes made. He called some of Truth Aquatics’ operations, including the roving watch violation, "just jaw-dropping."

Five crew members, including Boylan, were asleep in the upper deck when the fire broke out around 3 a.m. in area above the only escape hatch to the bunkroom where the passengers and a single crewmember were sleeping. Boylan and the other four crewmen escaped by jumping into the water after making repeated attempts to try to save those below deck.

The size of the emergency hatch — 22 inches by 22 inches — met regulations, though safety board members criticized it as inadequate. Its location required passengers to climb to an upper bunk and then pull themselves through the opening.

"I don't see how an average human with a life jacket on could get up through that hatch ... without being a contortionist," board member Michael E. Graham said.
A second exit from the bunkroom led to the same compartment.

The families of 32 victims have filed claims against the boat owners, Glen and Dana Fritzler, and Truth Aquatics. In turn, the Fritzlers and the company have filed a legal claim to shield them from damages under a maritime law that limits liability for vessel owners. Court filings show they have offered to settle lawsuits with dozens of victims' relatives.

Owners of California dive boat faulted for fire that killed 34

The NTSB said the Conception's captain failed to post a roving night watchman, which allowed the deadly fire to quickly spread.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[monkeyswrench]

Sad deal still. I don't know if the owners should be blamed or not. If the captain of the boat knew the regs, and didn't follow them, I think he would be at fault. Unfortunately, legally and when lawyers are involved, that's not the case. Essentially, the final report just officially states what they said from the beginning.

 

[QC22]

Thanks for posting the update. I hate the blame game. Hindsight is always 20/20. With that noted, a watchman does seem to be a reasonable requirement, especially above 6 pack size of vessel.

 

[Waterjunky]

Some good information in that article, unfortunately it was also written with a strong bias. Quote after quote from lawyers trying to profit.........

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Keep in mind that NTSB findings are not admissable in court.

 

[stephenkatsea]

A few $7 LiPo battery charging bags may have prevented this tragedy. The lack of the required roving patrolman is inexcusable.

 

[500bbc]

A few $7 LiPo battery charging bags may have prevented this tragedy. The lack of the required roving patrolman is inexcusable.

He may have fallen asleep, a not infrequent occurrence.

 

[Taboma]

Keep in mind that NTSB findings are not admissable in court.

Then who's are ? Legal teams invited to perform their own forensics ?

 

[Taboma]

A few $7 LiPo battery charging bags may have prevented this tragedy. The lack of the required roving patrolman is inexcusable.

Are you familiar with any means the Coast Guard is supposed to police the roving patrol as proposed by the NTSB ? Besides being recorded in log books, which may be a requirement.

 

[rrrr]

He may have fallen asleep, a not infrequent occurrence.

It's been clearly established there had never been a roving watchman posted by the captain, on that trip and countless others.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Then who's are ? Legal teams invited to perform their own forensics ?

Yep.

The facts of the NTSB investigation are available, but any "blame" the NTSB finds is not.

Essentially the plantiff has to conduct their own investigation.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Are you familiar with any means the Coast Guard is supposed to police the roving patrol as proposed by the NTSB ? Besides being recorded in log books, which may be a requirement.

I am not aware of any means, other than a log book entry, for the CG to police the roving patrol requirement. Perhaps at the annual CG topside inspection, questioning of the crew about how roving patrols are handled on the vessel would be beneficial.

 

[rrrr]

The captain has been charged with 34 counts of seaman's manslaughter by failing to train his crew, conduct fire drills, and have a roving night watchman posted on the Conception.

I think we all knew this was coming.

Captain of Conception dive boat indicted on 34 manslaughter counts in deadly fire

The fire that erupted on the 75-foot boat in 2019 killed 33 passengers and one crew member.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[4Waters]

The captain has been charged with 34 counts of seaman's manslaughter by failing to train his crew, conduct fire drills, and have a roving night watchman posted on the Conception.

I think we all knew this was coming.

Captain of Conception dive boat indicted on 34 manslaughter counts in deadly fire

The fire that erupted on the 75-foot boat in 2019 killed 33 passengers and one crew member.

www.nbcnews.com

10 years per count, 340 years, I figure he will off himself

 

[monkeyswrench]

10 years per count, 340 years, I figure he will off himself

If it's in Cali, won't he be out in 10, 20 tops?

Nevermind, he's probably a citizen.
Sad though. A night watchman would have changed everything. A lot of people wouldn't know the pain and anger they have now

 

[HTTP404]

Every overnight boat I've ever been on had at least one crew member up all the time. On the hook, or underway someone was in the wheelhouse. When they aren't bad things happen. Run into islands and shit.

 

[rrrr]

If it's in Cali, won't he be out in 10, 20 tops?

Nevermind, he's probably a citizen.
Sad though. A night watchman would have changed everything. A lot of people wouldn't know the pain and anger they have now

It's not a California indictment, it's federal.

He was charged under a pre-Civil War federal statute that was codified to make steamboat captains liable for fires and explosions because a watch wasn't posted.

 

[rrrr]

10 years per count, 340 years, I figure he will off himself

I couldn't live with the burden of 34 lives on me. The legal issues would be nothing compared to the crushing weight of those lives lost because of negligence.

The captain had been running trips for years and had never posted a watch. He probably didn't want to be seen as a hard ass...nothing bad was going to happen, why make someone stay up all night?

I know one thing for sure...there are dozens of fishing, diving, and other overnight charter excursion boats on the coastlines of the US that didn't have a roving watchman posted on overnight duty before the Conception fire happened, and they sure as hell do now.

 

[lbhsbz]

A bad deal all around. The only bright side to this is that the captain is 67 rather than 37...his kids, if he has any, are likely grown.

Rules are a hinderance 99.9% of the time, but for every time we thank the captain for allowing a bit a leeway, a single incident can screw everything up....as has happened here.

Nobody has gone through life without breaking a single rule, but then again...most times things don’t go wrong until they do.

No good answer from me here.

 

[beerrun]

Every overnight boat I've ever been on had at least one crew member up all the time. On the hook, or underway someone was in the wheelhouse. When they aren't bad things happen. Run into islands and shit.

Were you on the charter boat that ran into the Coronado islands in like 86-88?

 

[HTTP404]

Were you on the charter boat that ran into the Coronado islands in like 86-88?

I was not. But I know someone who was on the Invicta when it ran into N. Coronado Island a few years ago.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I couldn't live with the burden of 34 lives on me. The legal issues would be nothing compared to the crushing weight of those lives lost because of negligence.

The captain had been running trips for years and had never posted a watch. He probably didn't want to be seen as a hard ass...nothing bad was going to happen, why make someone stay up all night?

I know one thing for sure...there are dozens of fishing, diving, and other overnight charter excursion boats on the coastlines of the US that didn't have a roving watchman posted on overnight duty before the Conception fire happened, and they sure as hell do now.

An intriguing corollary to this is where was the CG? If the captain had been breaking the rules for decades (as seems the issue here), where was the enforcement? A rule that only is enforced after the fact isn't much of a rule to begin with.

I don't know how to answer that question, but maybe it is a sign of the bloated administrative state that even the most basic safety rules go with no real enforcement outside of tragedies like this.

 

[rivergames]

Very sad deal all around. RIP to those that lost their lives.

I also feel bad for the captain that will now suffer the rest of his life due to a horrible accident aboard the boat. Hopefully this is an eye opener to all captains to have someone always keeping an eye open for watch.

Dive boat captain charged with 34 counts of seaman's manslaughter in deadly Conception boat fire

The captain of the Conception, a dive boat that became engulfed in flames in 2019 near Santa Cruz Island, resulting in the deaths of 33 passengers and one crew member, was indicted Tuesday by a federal grand jury on 34 counts of seaman’s manslaughter.

www.foxla.com

 

[H20 Toie]

This still just makes me sick, i use to dive off of those boats and cannot even imagine how terrible that would have had to be.

 

[4Waters]

Very sad deal all around. RIP to those that lost their lives.

I also feel bad for the captain that will now suffer the rest of his life due to a horrible accident aboard the boat. Hopefully this is an eye opener to all captains to have someone always keeping an eye open for watch.

Dive boat captain charged with 34 counts of seaman's manslaughter in deadly Conception boat fire

The captain of the Conception, a dive boat that became engulfed in flames in 2019 near Santa Cruz Island, resulting in the deaths of 33 passengers and one crew member, was indicted Tuesday by a federal grand jury on 34 counts of seaman’s manslaughter.

www.foxla.com

Unfortunately we saw this coming, there's something to be said about "The Captain goes down with his ship" and "The Captain is the last one off the ship". I am surprised he hasn't committed suicide yet but I expect he will these charges.

 

[RiverDave]

Keep in mind that NTSB findings are not admissable in court.

No shit? I thought that was what they were pretty much for?

RD

 

[4Waters]

They say the fire started in a trashcan

Report: Deadly Conception boat fire started in trash can

The fire that killed 34 people onboard a dive boat off the coast of Santa Cruz Island on Labor Day 2019 started in a plastic trash can on the main deck, according to a report by the Los Angeles Times.

www.ksby.com

 

[bonesfab]

They say the fire started in a trashcan

Report: Deadly Conception boat fire started in trash can

The fire that killed 34 people onboard a dive boat off the coast of Santa Cruz Island on Labor Day 2019 started in a plastic trash can on the main deck, according to a report by the Los Angeles Times.

www.ksby.com

How could they determine that? Nothing left and on the bottom of the ocean for a week?? Yea right.

 

[monkeyswrench]

They say the fire started in a trashcan

Report: Deadly Conception boat fire started in trash can

The fire that killed 34 people onboard a dive boat off the coast of Santa Cruz Island on Labor Day 2019 started in a plastic trash can on the main deck, according to a report by the Los Angeles Times.

www.ksby.com

Why would the ATF be investigating this? Seems like NTSB or Coast Guard would, but maybe different resources?

 

[4Waters]

How could they determine that? Nothing left and on the bottom of the ocean for a week?? Yea right.

I agree to a point but fire investigators are pretty amazing and without understanding their process I can't fully disagree.

Do we have an investigator on the boards that could maybe shed some light on this?

 

[Waterjunky]

Keep in mind that the industries that are getting hit (Literally anything with or near a lithium battery and this includes shipping or using such as a power tool / laptop) are feeling fallout from this accident. Anyone who thinks there is only pressure to "find the truth" is a fool. There is tons of quiet political pressure to find another culprit. Anything other than the battery explosion.....

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Why would the ATF be investigating this? Seems like NTSB or Coast Guard would, but maybe different resources?

Maybe a cigarette or firearm lost at sea started the fire.

 

[bonesfab]

Keep in mind that the industries that are getting hit (Literally anything with or near a lithium battery and this includes shipping or using such as a power tool / laptop) are feeling fallout from this accident. Anyone who thinks there is only pressure to "find the truth" is a fool. There is tons of quiet political pressure to find another culprit. Anything other than the battery explosion.....

You see some of the videos from china about the e-bikes and scooters just randomly blowing up sure makes you wonder about those batteries. They are about as stable as any woman.

 

[Singleton]

You see some of the videos from china about the e-bikes and scooters just randomly blowing up sure makes you wonder about those batteries. They are about as stable as any woman.

Carlsbad FD has issued a warning on all e-bikes and their batteries.
They tell you, do not store or charge batteries inside AND do not leave charging batteries unattended

 

[got wood]

Used to dive on that boat a lot very sad

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Keep in mind that the industries that are getting hit (Literally anything with or near a lithium battery and this includes shipping or using such as a power tool / laptop) are feeling fallout from this accident. Anyone who thinks there is only pressure to "find the truth" is a fool. There is tons of quiet political pressure to find another culprit. Anything other than the battery explosion.....

This ^^^
I slept on that boat years ago when I was learning to Scuba Dive . It would leave super early in AM and you could come night before and sleep .

 

[hallett21]

Maybe a cigarette or firearm lost at sea started the fire.

I was thinking cigarette but I’ve yet to see anyone on a tuna trip do anything other than flick em overboard.

 

[stephenkatsea]

I also wonder why, or if, ATF were involved. LA Times gains access to a confidential AFT report? That’s interesting.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I also wonder why, or if, ATF were involved. LA Times gains access to a confidential AFT report? That’s interesting.

Left takes care of the left. Don't want the "save the planet hero batteries" being the culprit of 30+ helpless souls deaths. that would damper their plans greatly.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Left takes care of the left. Don't want the "save the planet hero batteries" being the culprit of 30+ helpless souls deaths. that would damper their plans greatly.

So much to be learned from this unforgettable tragedy. Trash can fires is NOT one of them and very doubtful. LA Times - let’s hear the rest of this alleged Confidential ATF report.